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  #31  
Old 03-22-2008, 12:06 AM
Saje Saje is offline
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Originally Posted by zoe08 View Post
First of all. I don't believe photo"Journalists" should really be using much photoshop. As it is journalism and altering the picture makes it not "real or unbiased"
Then a photo should never enter the darkroom either if it's used for journalism? There is a difference between post-processing and manipulation. Think about it. How does a photo get cropped? Or the DIP dropped for publication purposes? How does it get converted to grayscale since you can't shoot in grayscale for newspapers and it's not a good idea to do it generally.


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I believe that pictures are what makes people pick up most publications. Although it doesn't have to be a *great* picture, just of a topic that interests people. Although most newspaper readers, read the newspaper no matter what picture is on it. Most people are more likely to pick up a magazine with a pretty picture. Newspapers are more likely read by subscribers.
if you haven't studied jrnl i wouldn't expect either you or mackenzie to know how newspapers are sold. Let's just say that while newspapers are read about subscribers that's really not the point. Not all newspapers have subscribers. Some are free and go door to door. And how is each article chosen? Those with a good, yes, good picture, are more likely to be read then others.

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And as I said previously you don't HAVE to have the gear, but if you are really into photography and depending "What kind" you may eventually end up with a lot of money invested.

I have a $1000 camera w/kit zoom lens
a $300 telephoto zoom lens
a $160 used light meter
a $100 camera backpack
a $200 used off camera flash
about $1500 of studio equip and that is just with 2 AB 800s and softbox, umbrellas stands, etc.
another $1000 of backdrop stuff

Now of course that is because I do want to do "studio" photography and you can't do that kind of photography without the equipment which is pretty expensive.
glad you specified studio. i can't stand it when ppl are made to feel like they can't take good pics becuz they don't have the gear

Not to mention I don't even know how much money I spent last semester buying Velvia 100 slide film and having it processed and getting prints. And I have $150 used Nikon film camera with a lens for it.

I want to buy a $1600 lens, I need to buy a new camera, so that I can have my D70 as a back up. Not too mention the other studio equip. Although I understand not everyone wants a studio. But if you like taking pictures of people, or products, and such then you may want one and the stuff is expensive.

But I was taught by "photographers" not photojournalists. I took a documentary/photojournalism class and I admit that is not what interests me. I much prefer landscape/nature/people photography.

And I am MUCH more critical than just about anyone when it comes to pictures. I took a class where it didn't matter how proud you were of the photo, when it came time to show in class, the teacher would always have a "however....such and such would make this a much better photo." And he was the state photographer of Texas. And I took classes from art photographers (one of which actually had worked in just about every kind of photography there is), and they are probably the most critical of any photographer. So I imagine it might be quite a bit different than having a photojournalist program.

I am sorry, it is just frustrating when every person who owns a P&S camera thinks they can be a professional. Even getting an SLR will not make you a photographer. And some people think the camera is what will make you a photographer. I know my mom didn't like to tell people my degree was in photography, because it sounds like such a blow off major. But I worked my butt off and it is a lot more difficult than it seems. Its not about pointing and clicking a button. It is about soo much more.

I never said it was expensive right off the bat. And I never said the D40 isnt a great camera. I think it is a great camera to start with. I just thought I would point out that if you get really into it, then you will usually start to want more, and all that money adds up.[/QUOTE]
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  #32  
Old 03-22-2008, 12:11 AM
Saje Saje is offline
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Originally Posted by makenzie71 View Post
This single statement clearly shows that you two are talking about completely different things. I was just telling Kalee that if I saw this:



...on the front page of a newspaper, I'd bring it home. Not because the picture is good. That picture is horrible. The lighting is terrible. The depth and focus are both unflattering. The color is off, as well. On top of that, you'll be losing another 25% of the quality putting it on newspaper. I know what a Smokin' Joe CBR is. I know who Duhamel is. I'll be bringing it home because it's interesting. Not because it's good.
I'd be interested to know how you know this?


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Good photography has NEVER sold a newspaper.
_^ That is a very bold statement to make. And untrue imo. i don't know how you can make a statement like that with such confidence. plenty of papers have been sold by good photos.
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  #33  
Old 03-22-2008, 12:17 AM
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zoe08 zoe08 is offline
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Originally Posted by Saje View Post
if you haven't studied jrnl i wouldn't expect either you or mackenzie to know how newspapers are sold. Let's just say that while newspapers are read about subscribers that's really not the point. Not all newspapers have subscribers. Some are free and go door to door. And how is each article chosen? Those with a good, yes, good picture, are more likely to be read then others.
Actually I studied in the college of mass communications and I did take journalism as well as advertising, mass comm law, intro to mass comm which explains how all mediums of mass comm are circulated.

And I said they shouldn't be using *much* photoshop. Cropping I can understand...and if you are changing to greyscale, I do hope you aren't just using the mode > greyscale, but hopefully using channel mixer as it is a much better way.
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  #34  
Old 03-22-2008, 12:20 AM
Saje Saje is offline
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lol ok. I don`t get how you can say one way is better then another. There are more then two ways to do it and they each have their purposes. That`s neither here nor there.

where did you study
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  #35  
Old 03-22-2008, 12:24 AM
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Texas Tech

Well its called the Russell Brown approach. And using channel mixer you have more control. When you use grayscale or desaturate it is an "auto" thing and doesn't have the contrast you would get with the channel mixer. Kind of the same reason it is best to shoot in color, because the B&W mode on the camera is an "auto" type thing and doesn't get the contrast. I don't really know how to explain it well.

Here is a link:
http://www.bythom.com/bandw.htm
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  #36  
Old 03-22-2008, 12:27 AM
Saje Saje is offline
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I know that. Like I said there is more then just the two ways to do it. which method you choose just depends on what you want for the end result
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  #37  
Old 03-22-2008, 12:32 AM
Saje Saje is offline
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If you studied media I don`t get how you can think that photojournalists run around w point and shoot cameras. OR that photojournalists don`t need to take good pictures. I guess maybe it just depends on your definition of `good`.
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  #38  
Old 03-22-2008, 12:51 AM
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Some of them do. Not all, but it is happening more often now days. And maybe because I don't live in a huge metro area with huge newspapers I don't see as good of pictures as you do in your newspapers. I dunno I have never lived in a huge city. Biggest I have lived in is population 200,000. Maybe we don't have the kind of photojournalists like NYC or huge places.

And yes my definition of "good" is much different than most peoples. My friends/family keep telling me my pictures are great and that I should be making money from this, but I can't even pick pictures to put up on my website because I find something wrong with all of them. As I said before I am WAY more critical then most people about pictures.

And photojournalism is different as the lighting and such isn't as important as "the moment" because it is shot without any set up, you don't have that kind of control over the situation. But when you shoot portraits or landscapes you can choose what time of day, and the location and such and it makes it very different from photojournalism.
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  #39  
Old 03-22-2008, 01:09 AM
Saje Saje is offline
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The last paper I worked for was in a town with a population of 9,000. Town and county. We won a lot of awards for the work we did too. I just heard that we won best overall in our category again. It was a good paper. The only paper I`ve ever know to use point and shoot was the one I worked for several years ago. They were only a couple years old and didn`t have a budget for anything. They went under.

You should join www.photo.net if you want to learn more about photography and meet some critical people!
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  #40  
Old 03-22-2008, 01:32 AM
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I am a member of a few photo forums. I mainly only frequent the Texas one.

I looked at photo.net and looked at the photo critique section but didn't actually see any critiques. Are the critiques private? Or am I just lost because it is not VB?
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