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Old 09-25-2007, 11:04 PM
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Kayota Kayota is offline
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Default Cropping & Docking - For or Against?

I, personally, am very against it. I liken it to forcing a child to get plastic surgery even if they don't want it. It's cutting off a body part. It's as bad as declawing in cats. I understand dewclaw removal, because my dogs sometimes get their dewclaws caught on leashes and such, but in this day and age, cropping and docking serve no purpose. Your thoughts on the matter?
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Old 09-25-2007, 11:19 PM
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Here is a thread of nearly the same title.............

http://www.chazhound.com/forums/show...light=cropping

There is enough reading there to keep you busy, LOL

I am all for responsible pet owners to choose what's right for their pet, as long as it's done by a professional using proper medications and equipment.
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Old 09-25-2007, 11:21 PM
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Even if someone does choose to do it, I think they should be given the option. I had a min pin once, and she came docked. :\
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Old 09-28-2007, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayota View Post
Even if someone does choose to do it, I think they should be given the option. I had a min pin once, and she came docked. :\
You dont get the option of chooseing with breeds like that because they have to be docked at 3 days old. Now if you are on a list before the pup is born and have say 1st pick and are willing to pick when the pup is a day old AND pay for the pup in full at 1 day old then YES you should be allowed to decide if you want the dog docked or not. Otherwise you just have to suck it up and deal with it, or get a breed that is not docked. I think people should be allowed to choose because if you outlaw cropping and docking at a proper vet office then people will start doing it at home in thier basement. Around here the closest vet that will "do" an APBT or Am Staff is an hour away, thus we see ALOT of bad basement crops. If it isn't accessable people will do it thierselves which IMO is worse than having a vet do a proper dock or crop.
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Old 09-29-2007, 01:00 PM
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[QUOTE=verderben;865469]You dont get the option of chooseing with breeds like that because they have to be docked at 3 days old. Now if you are on a list before the pup is born and have say 1st pick and are willing to pick when the pup is a day old AND pay for the pup in full at 1 day old then YES you should be allowed to decide if you want the dog docked or not. QUOTE]

I wouldn't count on that scenario occurring. Breeders don't know how any puppy is going to grade out at 8 weeks when they're three days old or less. So they're almost certainly going to dock the entire litter.
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Old 09-29-2007, 03:48 PM
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[QUOTE=Murreydobe;866413]
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Originally Posted by verderben View Post
You dont get the option of chooseing with breeds like that because they have to be docked at 3 days old. Now if you are on a list before the pup is born and have say 1st pick and are willing to pick when the pup is a day old AND pay for the pup in full at 1 day old then YES you should be allowed to decide if you want the dog docked or not. QUOTE]

I wouldn't count on that scenario occurring. Breeders don't know how any puppy is going to grade out at 8 weeks when they're three days old or less. So they're almost certainly going to dock the entire litter.
Hmm, maybe if one pup turned out to have a visible disqualification, such as a white spot on the chest or something, and it turns out you wanted it, I would think that a breeder would go ahead and leave that pup undocked at your request since they know it would be going to a pet home?

Personally, I'm more against tail docking than ear cropping. I have a Pembroke Welsh Corgi, and I so so so wish he had a tail. If I had a choice, I would go back in time and somehow undock his tail. Fortunately, other dogs can usually read his body language by his big ol' expressive ears!

Ear cropping usually doesn't take off all of the ear (although it sure looks like some Pitbull breeders do that!) so other dogs would be able to tell read their body language. As long as the whole ear isn't gone, I personally have no problem with it.

Tail docking annoys me, especially in breeds where there is quite literally only one vertebrae for a tail, like a Corgi, or very very short, like a Rottweiler.

I don't really see the point in docking tails at such an awkward length, though, like an Irish Terrier or a Vizsla or an Airedale.
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Old 09-29-2007, 07:55 PM
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[QUOTE=Corgi;866493]
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Originally Posted by Murreydobe View Post

Hmm, maybe if one pup turned out to have a visible disqualification, such as a white spot on the chest or something, and it turns out you wanted it, I would think that a breeder would go ahead and leave that pup undocked at your request since they know it would be going to a pet home?
I can only respond through the perspective of my own breed, Dobermans. Our standard allows for a white spot on the chest of up to 1/2". A white spot larger than that would be a fault, but not a DQ. At 3 days of age or less, there'd be no way to tell what size a white spot might wind up being. And many, many puppies are born with white spots there that completely disappear by 8 weeks. So again, I doubt you'd find many breeders willing to do this.

Another concern breeders have about leaving puppies uncropped and/or undocked is the difficulty in placing mature dogs with drop ears and long tails if a puppy is returned to them for any reason. You can do the best job possible screening, yet stuff happens no one can control..people die, etc. And it's VERY difficult to place dogs like this.

My own personal feeling is buying a puppy isn't like buying something off of a Chinese menu where you pick one item from category A and one from Category B. Puppies come "as is", the way the breeder wants them. When I've produced litters in the past, it was to try and create MY vision of the Doberman...and that vision *does not* involve drop ears and long tails. There's no point in going through all the work and expense if the culmination of my effort is an animal that isn't pleasing to me.

Anyway, it's extremely difficult to find a GOOD Doberman breeder in the US who'll place an uncropped puppy...and I'm positive it would be even more difficult to find one who would place an undocked puppy. People who can't live with docked tails should probably think about importing a puppy from a country where docking is prohibited, or going through rescue. Or find another breed.

My dobes are all docked right around the second joint..no shortage of tail body language around here!

Last edited by Murreydobe; 09-29-2007 at 08:14 PM.
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Old 09-25-2007, 11:29 PM
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Did you discuss it with the breeder beforehand? If the breeder wasn't willing to work with your wishes, why did you go ahead and buy from them??
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Old 09-25-2007, 11:41 PM
SizzleDog SizzleDog is offline
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Quote:
Even if someone does choose to do it, I think they should be given the option. I had a min pin once, and she came docked. :\
In most cases, you do have the option - if the breeder you choose will not sell a puppy au naturale, you find a different breeder or choose rescue! I've got three docked dogs (traditionally docked breeds), two of which are cropped (traditionally cropped breeds). I will get a natural eared dobe someday, but not right now. I like having a choice, especially since my dogs are docked and cropped by professionals and reknowned cropping vets.

However... I find myself urging most people NOT to crop - I'd rather see natural ears than a bad crop ANY day! And usually, the average pet owner does not have the resources to get a good crop in the first place.... so it's just easier to go with natural ears.
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Old 09-25-2007, 11:50 PM
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http://chazhound.com/forums/search.php?searchid=698145

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