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Old 08-29-2007, 02:20 AM
minpinluvrs minpinluvrs is offline
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Default Tiny little Mini Pin

Hello all,
Late last year, we decided to breed our Min Pins, before anyone says anything, they had both shown twice, and one took best of breed once, the other took it once, and they were both runner up when they didn't win. Anyway, it was a once off breeding because we wanted a baby from them, and the breeder of our male in Canada wanted a puppy, and three close friends wanted pups, but didn't want to travel as far as they'd need to, and didn't want a pet store puppy. Also, immediately after we were sure she was pregnant, our male was neutered, and 8 weeks after the birth, she was spayed, effectively ending their show carreers, but we wanted them more for pets than anything, and we want to get more into performance showing if anything.

Now that that's out of the way, the birth went fine, except one of the pups was about the size of my thumb at birth, and within 4 hours was rejected by mom (he was less than a quarter of the size of the other 4.) We immediately started feeding him formula (he did get at least a little colostrum,) and with mine and my wife's work schedules, it worked out nice for us to basically care for him 24/7. Mom finally did allow him to start nursing again when he was 19 days old, but by then the difference between him and his littermates was still pretty extreme. Needless to say, we fell in love with him with all the care we had given him, and we weren't sure if he'd have future problems, so he ended up being the one we kept.

Fast forward 6 months, he was just neutered, and while at the vet, their scale said 3.8 lbs, (ours says 4 lbs.) We get to see his siblings, except for the one that went to the breeder (which they've already decided is going to start showing,) regularly, and they're all almost full grown, whereas he's about the size of a 12 week old. With all of the times we've had him to the vet for shots and such, they've never found anything wrong with him except that his temperature is always 2 degrees below normal. Also, he can keep up with all of our other dogs all day long, and has all the exhuberance a 6 month old pup should have, and then some.

My question here is, was his growth just stunned by the rocky start? If so, do they generally eventually catch up, or will he always be tiny? Also, is it likely that he'll have more health problems than most? I've read plenty about health problems in "teacup" versions of dogs, but generally they're blamed on the breeding required to miniaturize the dogs, whereas both the mother and father of this pup come from good backgrounds, with plenty of championship lines, and no "teacups" that I, or either breeder can find. I have talked to several different Min Pin breeders across the country, and all of them seem to think he'll catch up, but none of them really had first hand experience with keeping a pup that got off to such a rough start.

We have had all sorts of tests done on him to make sure everything is functioning properly, and it all is (except for the temp, of course,) and he's on a rotating diet of Canidae, Innova, and he gets fresh raw meat regularly, so he shouldn't be lacking anything.

I guess I'm just looking for anyone who's had any similar experience for reassurance. We're extremely attached to our other 4 dogs, and didn't think it was possible to become any more attached to a dog, but the level of attachment we have to Zeus is off the scale (we don't have any human children.)

One other problem he has is that he wets the bed. My wife goes to bed around 10 p.m. I get home from work around midnight and let them all out, I let them out again around 2:30 a.m. when I go to bed, and then when she gets up at 5 a.m. they go out again. Unfortunately, sometime between me going to bed, and her getting up, he tends to have an accident. We've cured it for now by crating him when I go to bed, but does anyone have any ideas on curbing this behavior? We both feel guilty that everyone else is snuggled up in the warm bed, and he's stuck in his crate, but obviously we don't like the alternative. Oh, and if she puts him back in bed when she leaves at 6 a.m., he's fine until I get up at 9 a.m., so it's just that little 2-1/2 hour period that's a problem....
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Old 08-29-2007, 11:40 AM
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bubbatd bubbatd is offline
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We need a picture !!!
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Old 08-29-2007, 11:55 AM
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Dekka Dekka is offline
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Yes we do need a pic. I dunno. When Snip was born, the mom did the umbilical cord herself and cut it to short, and he lost a fair amount of blood. He was small for quite a while, but eventually (I think, as he is about average size for that litter) about 9 months caught up.

Dekka was horribly attacted by her littermates (out enjoying the spring sunshine in an expen on the lawn at about 13 weeks) She had been one of the larger pups, but now is about 11.5 inches and looks a bit stunted (very stocky)

I think it is likely he will remain small, I would watch his health carefully. There is a chance he will be less healthy than the others, due to the rough start (probably didn't get enough nutrients in the womb, depends how it affected him during critical development periods) But it sounds like you are doing stuff right
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Old 08-29-2007, 12:16 PM
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HoundedByHounds HoundedByHounds is offline
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Can a dog that small hold it 8 hours? I would tend to doubt it personally.

Have you checked him for liver shunts etc? I assume the heart is fine without murmurs etc...via EKG.
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Old 08-29-2007, 12:33 PM
minpinluvrs minpinluvrs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoundedByHounds View Post
Can a dog that small hold it 8 hours? I would tend to doubt it personally.

Have you checked him for liver shunts etc? I assume the heart is fine without murmurs etc...via EKG.
Yes, I know he's had EKG's, as far as liver shunts, I'm not sure about that one. I know the vet has said that she's tested for everything a blood test can show her and all is well.

As far as holding it for 8 hours, none of my dogs are ever in a position where they have to hold it for more than two or three. Like I said, my wife and I work opposing hours, so somebody is always home with them, and our night time sleep schedules make it easy for them to go out every few hours. It's just that one 2.5 hour period that he seems to have trouble with.

As far as pics, how do I post them in my message again? Every time I've ever tried, it just shows a link.

Thanks
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Old 08-29-2007, 12:47 PM
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girlbuffalo1 girlbuffalo1 is offline
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Default I dunno

If he has been medically tested and is fine I wouldn't worry too much--at 6 months he still probalby has a bit of growing and filling out left to do. If I were guessing I would guess to be around 5lbs. Honey is a Brussels Griffon whose standard weight should be in the 8-12lb range but she is 6 and healthy (she was a puppy mill rescue)--as long as she is eating well and the doctor says she is ok I try not to worry.

You post a picture by posting your link (so for instance the link to the picture on photobucket or whatever site you use) by using the icon that looks lik mountains with a yellow sky.
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Old 08-29-2007, 01:31 PM
minpinluvrs minpinluvrs is offline
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Okay,
Here goes with the pics, they're a few weeks old and not the greatest, but for some reason all of my Min Pins have a hatred of the camera, whereas the second my Rottie sees the camera, he's doing his best to pose.

The one pic does have his father, Apollo, in it, so it gives a little comparison.





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Old 08-29-2007, 01:38 PM
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suzanne118 suzanne118 is offline
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AWWWW he is Adorable
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Old 08-29-2007, 02:27 PM
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OMG I'm dying from the cuteness here LOL! He sure looks like a healthy spunky little guy to me!
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Old 08-29-2007, 02:46 PM
minpinluvrs minpinluvrs is offline
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LOL....Spunky isn't the word for it, all of my dogs are quite active, but he runs rings around the rest all day long!! My wife laughed at me for wanting to name him Zeus, since he was so tiny, but apparently he feels he needs to live up to his name!! Our poor Rottie, Thor, sees him coming, and he'll jump up and run to another room just to avoid the imminent attack...
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