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Old 06-06-2007, 12:49 PM
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noludoru noludoru is offline
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Default Fila Owners (questions, what else?)

Okay.. I know we've had a zillion "Renee tell us about the Grrrls" threads, but I have some questions that I'm almost positive weren't asked. I can't remember them all... but I'll add as I go.


Tell me about the white-brindle dogs. I've heard them described.. Are they just pale fawns?

What do you think of breeders who sell every pup they have as breeding quality except the few marked as "pets" and why?

What about breeders who don't socialize their pups before they go home to new owners?

How was it bringing your fila puppies home? Did they hate you at first, or were they wary of you?

Are all Filas as intelligent as Kharma and Shiva?

Why is there such a HUGE variation type still, even though there appears to be many dogs considered breeding stock?

I've seen a Fila that honestly resembles a cow on one Fila breeder's website.. I believe it was Eshabeta. Why on earth did they breed her? I know temperament and ability come first in determining breed-worthiness, but she is rather extreme.

What do you think of Filas who have their hips high above their shoulders (like 4 inches or more)? Does it hurt them or cause structural problems? I think it's a tad bit extreme.

How are your Filas with strangers petting them on neutral territory? Why? How do they react when people come onto your property? How about when you bring people into your home? Do you have to lock them up!? I read that on several sites, and it made me twitch.

Fila mixes--I read in one article (only one, mind you.. couldn't much more info on it) that they are unstable. Fact or fiction? I'm inclined to say fiction, but I really have no grounds to judge upon.

What do you think of breeding for Filas with less ojeriza?

Okay.. all for now. More when I remember. I apologize if I asked any dumb ones, I only got a few hours of sleep last night.
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Old 06-06-2007, 11:38 PM
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I am by no means a Fila expert but I did want to touch on a couple of the questions you had...

Part of the reason there is a difference in the looks of Filas is because of the difference in breeders' goals. The big split happens between breeders breeding for show and breeders breeding for work. This split is actually found in many breeds that were once used for some type of work before they were introduced to the show ring. Within the show dogs, breeders either breed for what they know will appeal to judges or they breed to suit their own personal interpretation of the breed standard. Ranchers who are breeding their Filas for work simply breed the best worker to the best worker regardless of looks in order to create the best worker. There is a third split which is backyard breeders as well. They tend to have the most over-done dogs because they have no "test" their dogs must pass in order to be breeding quality, the pups just need to sell.

As for "breeding down" temperment, I am highly against this. A breed was made the way it was for a reason and if a person cant deal with that temperment then the person shouldn't get the breed of dog. Its as bad as breeding the pulling instinct out of a Siberian Husky or the hunting instinct out of a Beagle, its just not right. Besides, IMO the only person that would breed down temperment is a backyard breeder because then they suddenly gain a larger number of people who could handle their dogs. After all, not just any Joe Schmoe can handle a Fila with a high ojeriza, it takes skill, knowledge, and an indepth understanding. Rule #1 of choosing a breed of dog is to find the one that matches your living style the best and that goes in hand with temperment. If you are someone who likes to have a lot of random people over all the time, then perhaps you should look for a more social breed...
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Old 06-07-2007, 08:01 AM
Buddy'sParents Buddy'sParents is offline
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Whew, that's a lotta questions! Renee will be the one to answer most of these when she has the time, though... Sorry for any typos... I was typing quickly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noludoru View Post
What do you think of breeders who sell every pup they have as breeding quality except the few marked as "pets" and why?

Wouldn't this be the same as any breeder breeding to better the breed? Our breeder had (and has) mostly breeding quality and these pups go to on to show or some (as with Bella's litter, go to places like South Africa and back to Brazil to do some work).

What about breeders who don't socialize their pups before they go home to new owners?

Bella was not socialized outside of their farm. While we started socialization after Bella settled in... sometimes no amount of socialization will make filas "okay" with strangers.. they have ojeriza- it's a part of them.

How was it bringing your fila puppies home? Did they hate you at first, or were they wary of you?

Bella had a bad experience coming to us... problems were out of our control. But after a couple days she quickly warmed up to us all.


Are all Filas as intelligent as Kharma and Shiva?

I'd even go so far as to say that filas are more intelligent than a lot of humans I know.

Why is there such a HUGE variation type still, even though there appears to be many dogs considered breeding stock?

I think OC answered this well...

I've seen a Fila that honestly resembles a cow on one Fila breeder's website.. I believe it was Eshabeta. Why on earth did they breed her? I know temperament and ability come first in determining breed-worthiness, but she is rather extreme.

Can you PM me the picture? Bella is an Eshabeta II puppy.. Eshabeta is known world wide for their filas.

What do you think of Filas who have their hips high above their shoulders (like 4 inches or more)? Does it hurt them or cause structural problems? I think it's a tad bit extreme.

How are your Filas with strangers petting them on neutral territory? Why? How do they react when people come onto your property? How about when you bring people into your home? Do you have to lock them up!? I read that on several sites, and it made me twitch.

People only pet Bella is she let's them. This is NOT a breed where someone can say, "ohhhhh what a cute puppy! Look at that face" while charging at the dog at high speeds and crouching to their level. People- and I don't care who they are- are NOT allowed to approach any of my dogs this way- especially Bella. We go to the beach and to the pond, if people are patient enough and bella likes them, she will come around and will go to them and they can pet her. But it's not a requirement for her to be Miss Social. Bella does not like when people come to our home (and she really did not enjoy the moving experience). When someone comes over (say something is broken) all of the dogs are crated until that person leaves. And I would not lock Bella up because of what breed she is... it's because Buddy and Banzai think every stranger is there to play with them, lol.

Fila mixes--I read in one article (only one, mind you.. couldn't much more info on it) that they are unstable. Fact or fiction? I'm inclined to say fiction, but I really have no grounds to judge upon.

I don't know but I would, on instinct, call it fact. Why? Because mixes are not purebreds and are in no way, shape, matter of form a true testament of either breed.

Okay.. all for now. More when I remember. I apologize if I asked any dumb ones, I only got a few hours of sleep last night.
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Old 06-07-2007, 08:02 AM
Buddy'sParents Buddy'sParents is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noludoru View Post

What do you think of breeding for Filas with less ojeriza?
OC also answered this well.... This is a part of the Fila breed... if you can't handle it, then don't get one!
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Old 06-07-2007, 11:07 AM
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Eek! I definitely should have specified. I'm nowehere NEAR experienced enough for a Fila. I don't plan on getting one anytime soom. Maybe 15 years down the road depending upon circumstances, but I do not plan on owning one. What both of you have said about breeding Filas temperaments down is something I agree with..they wouldn't be Filas without it.

Quote:
Are all Filas as intelligent as Kharma and Shiva?

I'd even go so far as to say that filas are more intelligent than a lot of humans I know.
:giggles: That was the impression I've gotten.

To elaborate a bit on my first two questions... It confused me a LOT that on some breeder websites I have checked out they may have one or two out of every ten pups that are not considered breeding quality, where in most other dog breeds (excluding dogs bred for work..BCs, ACDs, etc) they're lucky if they get one or two breeding quality out of a large litter. I'm not a Fila breeder [insert a sigh of relief here], and I certainly don't know exactly what goes into determining whether a dog is worthy of breeding, but nearly everything else I've read about breeding has been threaded with advice of "don't expect a breeding or show quality pup in every litter." With socialization as well, it is the norm for breeders to socialize the heck out of pups and require their new owners to do so as well. For Filas, it's not like you can socialize the aversion of strangers and their natural protectiveness out of them--once again, why would anyone want to--but teaching them what it normal and being able to take them out in public, IMO is a must for most people.

I'm going to start looking for the picture again. I don't actually remember whether it was Eshabeta II or not, but I'm going to go look. She just is a very odd-looking dog.

Thank you both so much for taking the time to answer my questions. The effort and great information means a lot to me.
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Old 06-07-2007, 05:04 PM
Buddy'sParents Buddy'sParents is offline
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My "you" in my post was a generic you.. not you personally, heh. But filas are great dogs and it's true, I would not recommend them to just anyone, but they are an awesome breed.

Bella would have been breeding/show quality had her nose not been 1/4 of an inch too short, lol! That was the ONLY thing disqualifying her, according to the breeder.

We didn't want a breeding quality nor show quality dog though. We almost bought one as we had originally wanted brindle, but I do not wish, at this time, to get involved in breeding or showing.

Bella's breeder has been breeding for 20+ years... she has excellent lines and has MANY top notch dogs. If you're around for that long, you know a lot about breeding properly, etc..
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Old 06-07-2007, 10:24 PM
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Sorry, I as well meant "you" in a generic sense. >_<
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Old 06-08-2007, 11:08 PM
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Don't apologize, guys. I should have read it that way. Thank you again for your answers!
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Old 06-08-2007, 11:36 PM
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Old 06-09-2007, 12:32 AM
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I'm not at my computer for a few days, and am just checking in, but something I will fill in to the good info you've already gotten is there is a great deal of disagreement among the various Fila factions as to what makes a dog a good example of the breed and a good prospect to have pups.

The show Fila people have a very structured and measured criteria, much like any breed. The other side of the coin are those who are more concerned with the "old" standards for the Fila - temperament, working drives, the unique character, fearlessness, intelligence, along with health and physical abilities (think a large, strong dog that is as fast as a large Doberman, only much more flexible and agile - and far less fragile). In other words, if it walks like a Fila and thinks like a Fila and works like a Fila, that's more important than all rather arbitrary show criteria
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