Some Questions

[jason_els]

I've got a question I haven't seen answered.

I see people talking about about how new pups need constant supervision to get housebreaking done quickly. Here are my problems in the 12 hours since I've gotten them.

1. My pups sniff around ALL the time. They're always sniffing around, sometimes with what appears to be an arched back but they don't do anything. I'm experiencing quite a few false alarms. Worse, both pups decided to pee within a foot of their food bowls. It's tough to know when they're peeing because there's quite a bit of hair and not far to squat. I usually can't tell until their done.
2. I take them outside to go potty and they've peed. I praise lavishly but they don't care a fig for the treats. They don't care for the nylabones, are disinterested in peanut butter stuffed kongs, ignore the ball I got. I don't know what to use other than praise. They don't care for any of these toys either inside the house or out. Granted it's quite cold outside now and snow seems far more interesting. One pup has found a corner of floor moulding he's determined to chew instead. Distraction with a kong or nylabone proves useless. He's determined to chew that corner! Tomorrow I'm buying a playpen for them. Could this be just adjustment stress? How long does it last?
3. What do I do at night? Do I stop access to water at a certain hour and, if I do, does it lengthen the 2-hour bladder limit generally attributed to a pup this age? At what point do I actually sleep if I have to be awake to take them out every 2 hours? They haven't been crated before today and, sadly, I had to start. I've read I should work-up to crating but what do you do with them during that period? Not crate them? If not then put them where? In the pen with a bed and a weewee pad?
4. Is 8 weeks too young for crating? As they don't seem to care a fig for treats or toys, how can I entice them to use a crate?
5. I'm concerned about using a leash with them outdoors because it seems at 8 weeks their neck is so delicate. Should I use a halter instead?
6. I'm also concerned about sounding stern (as with the wood chewing) so early when they barely know me. I want to reinforce the sense of, "all good things come from me," but when they don't seem motivated by treats or toys, I'm left with nothing other than praise. I don't want them to be afraid of me yet I know consistency is important.

Last, ever feel that you know all the answers and can recite all kinds of training manuals with everyone else's dogs but your own? That's what's happening now. Then again it is 5:30am and I am getting a bit goofy.

[Love That Collie]

I'll try to help with what I've experienced.
I have never had a problem with housetraining any of my dogs throughout my life. (I'm in my 40's) And even when I was a kid, it was done quickly. I must be lucky I guess.

I do crate train but I didn't always and I love the crate, it made it even faster. Leave your crate open when the pups are in your supervision and they might go in on their own a few times. When they do praise them profusely. Start closing the door for just a few seconds and praise then release them (seperate crates of course). Find more tasty treats, just tiny, tiny bits of maybe chicken lets say and try to lure them with that. When you absolutely can't watch them, crate them, it keeps them from getting into trouble. Put toys in the crate. I know you said they don't care for the toys but maybe they will take to them. They are in a strange place in that you haven't had them but a few hours and they could be apprehensive and a bit scared and they are checking out their new home also which explains the nose to the floor. A crate can give them a place of their own that is just theirs.

At night I put the crate in my bedroom where they could be near me and if they cried they didn't for very long. You could play some soft music beside of the crate. Chloe never cried and Bailey only cried for about 3 minutes the first night. I did withhold water about 2 hours before bedtime and only had to get up in the middle of the night about 3 times the first week because I would hear them figeting in the crate. Took them out, then right back to bed.
If they didn't fidget and were asleep I left them alone. Mine only had 3 accidents in the house before they were trained. I watched them like a hawk and the best time is when you CATCH them doing it. When I would catch mine I would firmly say NO, pee,pee outside and pick them up and immediately go outside and they would finish and I would praise profusely like it was the greatest thing in the world. But you can't do it AFTER the fact only when you catch them in the act. When you take them out to do their business don't play with them until they have done it, then play a bit. Some pups will hold it longer outside and not do anything right off because if you immediately take them in after they potty and they want to stay outside they won't get down to business. But for some they know that a little playtime is coming if they potty first. Potty then play. Take them out first thing in the morning, after each meal, after they have played, after they have slept. I got Bailey at 9 weeks and I took him out at first about every 45mins to an hour throughout the day. I controlled nearly everything he did and kept a schedule.

I wouldn't use a harness. Just use a lighter leash.

Apply something that tastes bad on the moulding and see if that deters the chewing. Say NO firmly, don't be worried about sounding too harsh, just a simple firm NO while you take him away from the object being chewed and replacing with something else of their own. They will learn they only chew on something that is theirs. Or say NO, take them away from the object and divert their attention to another fun game. You will have to do this a great number of times probably. And I will say that I have never had a dog that liked a Nylbone not that others don't but it appears that yours don't but they might later, who knows. Right now they are in a new place and need to investigate. Good luck and let us know.

[jason_els]

Love That Collie: Thank you so much! We're going crate buying today after the stores open. Right now they're in a small crate being very quiet. Perhaps they're sleeping. We just had breakfast and then half an hour outside until the shivering set in. Then we came back in and went to the crate for napping. After nap we'll go back outside and then to the store.

[Baxter'smybaby]

when my lab was a pup-she chewed on all sorts of stuff--we found that apple bitter spray worked to keep her away from household items..

[bubbatd]

Welcome to puppy-hood !! In your case ,double trouble . Remember, these pups need individual training ....that includes potty training . Taking them both out together , only invites play and not listening to you .

[Love That Collie]

You're welcome, Jason.........
And yes, welcome to puppyhood......this too shall pass.

[skKi]

So do we get to know the breed now?

[jason_els]

Originally Posted by bubbatd

Remember, these pups need individual training ....that includes potty training.

So far they seem to do ok. I scoop them into the crate and take the crate out and them both out. They haven't figured-out the 'come' command yet. I need to get another pen to expand this one before I can fit in another crate however. Right now it's just as well. The little guy gets quite cold going out as his coat isn't as dense as his brother's and he shivers something awful after just a few minutes so right now we're going out, doing business, and going back in. I think sleeping together helps to keep him warm. I'm taking them to the vet tomorrow. I'm worried the little guy has a cold or something. He's also very anxious and threw-up in the car. He managed to crawl through the back cover and into the back seat to try to get to me. Talk about guilt! The bigger guy couldn't have cared less. He just enjoyed the ride from the comfy dog bed.

Originally Posted by skKi

So do we get to know the breed now?

Yup. They are both pumi(k). I have a thread in the general section that explains and gives a pic of them and a link to the breed club gallery.