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Old 09-06-2013, 02:03 PM
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Question What is a dogs NATURAL diet.

As inspired by my own reply to a thread, and the lovely rogers views on the natural diet of a dog. Not to derail that thread, I will start a new one.

I'd like to point out that I feed both bodhi and Fred raw. But I also chuck in a few biscuits when training and raw hide chews to keep the buggers quiet sometimes

I'm really interested to see what other people's views are on a dogs NATURAL diet. I don't believe there is such a thing, and I will explain my reasonings... I'm just going to copy and paste my response here as its the same.... Discuss!




Just exactly what IS a dogs natural diet?

For one, there isn't ANYTHING natural about a domesticated dog. They're a man made phenomena. They were built, designed, dreamt up by our ancestors for their uses, and I doubt.... I seriously DOUBT that they would have been fed on the prime and scarce meat cuts, cast off etc that you seem to think they were.

They were NOT catching their own prey. They were tools, expendable no doubt at times, and I very, very much doubt... our ancestors gave a hoot if the dogs were eating meals consisting of any old thing.

Feral dogs will scavenge and eat anything. Vegetable matter, meat, sometimes mineral for that matter. It's how dogs have done SO well being our companions.

You talk like dogs have evolved to only eat meat la la la. It simply can't be true, it can't be how they have existed for so many years. I am not talking IDEAL diet. But the diet they've had for hundreds, if not thousands, of years probably wasn't barf or perfectly raw at ALL.

You do know pandas are omnivorous right??? You see what I'm saying with that right??? They don't just eat bamboo!!! You understand what I am saying here, don't you??? Physiology doesn't always dictate behaviour. Absolute and utter FACT.

So to say a "dogs natural diet", is actually pretty laughable on a zoological level... What IS a dogs natural diet I ask you???? Where are these natural dogs???
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Old 09-06-2013, 04:40 PM
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Well, I feel like most of us agree that wolves do not equal dogs. I think doing any more than minimal comparing to wolves is silly. Hell, we''ve recently discovered what we thought was the norm for wolf communities is completely wrong.

Its also debated on how they came to be, as another poster in the thread you're going off of mentioned. A lot of people now believe it was a mutual domestication. (The Wolf in The Parlor is a decent book that goes in depth on this.) Anyway, I agree that "natural" is a useless term when it comes to dogs.

I want the best for my dog but I don't always manage that. I don't think raw is bad but it's not realistic for a lot of people. We really don't know enough about dogs. Its a pretty fascinating subject.
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Old 09-07-2013, 10:35 AM
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I love this thread. I love what you guys have posted, I am thrilled to find someone else who has the same ideas about it that I do!

I agree, dogs are not wolves-some are not even descendants of wolves-they are descendants of primitive dogs. (Or so science says today) Dogs are scavengers, to me their natural diet is whatever they can get to to survive.

Could I be wrong? Sure but, it makes sense to me. Do I think any one diet is wrong? Not really, in all honesty, but I do think we should try to give them the healthiest options we can-the problem is, there is so much argument over what is better.

I feed kibble, right now it's acana but I rotate between brands. Our next bag is wellness small breed (it was on sale). Kibble is convenient but I would prefer to do a dehydrated raw. My problem is a spouse who complains about the money I spend on dog food-and is very anti raw.

I think home cooked and raw are excellent options-however, I don't believe the average person has the know how or resources to create a balanced diet, even over time. I have thought about doing home cooked but I don't trust any of the recipes out there and I honestly don't trust any of the sources I know of enough to pay them for their recipes.
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Old 09-07-2013, 10:45 AM
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The belief that dogs evolved into domestic existence on their own dictates they were started on trash and perpetuated on scraps, varying levels depending on various needs for bribery/reward.

My dogs eat steady diets of kibble and raw because I don't like random soft, liquid poop, nor do I want a gassy dog in my house. I feed what works, natural is not the word I would boast but it works. Natural is a word people get very confused about, it's like when people have trouble grasping a chemical compound can easily be natural.

What do pandas have to do with this?
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Old 09-07-2013, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
The belief that dogs evolved into domestic existence on their own dictates they were started on trash and perpetuated on scraps, varying levels depending on various needs for bribery/reward.

My dogs eat steady diets of kibble and raw because I don't like random soft, liquid poop, nor do I want a gassy dog in my house. I feed what works, natural is not the word I would boast but it works. Natural is a word people get very confused about, it's like when people have trouble grasping a chemical compound can easily be natural.

What do pandas have to do with this?
As I mentioned, my post was a reply to another thread, which inspired this thread.

Roger suggests dogs have a natural diet of nothing but, I assume, meat. That their physiology dictates this and everything else is poison to them. My panda reference is that even when you know the biology it doesn't dictate the behaviour, or food consumption. Pandas actually have carnivorous digestive systems, but eat almost solely bamboo. They very very occasionally eat meat. They are not vegetarians!!!!

But, you wouldn't serve a panda a purely meat based diet.

My thoughts for this thread really are what is a dogs NATURAL diet. Is there such a thing in a MODERN DOMESTIC dog. Can we base our ideas on wolves or wild dogs? Did dogs through the ages EVER eat a barf/raw/grain free diet?

Where do we get our ideas from?

The emphasis is on natural diet. What has a dog evolved eating, what should it eat now, what is natural about a domesticated animals diet.
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"Dogs are our link to paradise. They do not know jealousy or discontent. To sit with a dog on a hillside on a glorious afternoon is to be back in Eden, where doing nothing wasn't boring, it was peace."


Bodhi is the opposite of ignorance, the insight into reality which destroys mental afflictions and brings peace.

Owned by Bodhi Booglaoo and Fredington Holbein


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Old 09-07-2013, 10:59 AM
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I would say that dogs evolved eating human scrap foods.... whatever that was in the region.
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Old 09-08-2013, 09:05 PM
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I have complicated feelings on this, but I also feel like if it's not broken, don't fix it.

Dogs have sharp teeth and short digestive tracts; while I do believe dogs are omnivorous, I believe that they are something like 3/4 carnivore and 1/4 omnivore if that makes sense (which really it doesn't, because that would make them 100% omnivore LOL I just couldn't think of a better way to put it).

I feed yogurt, eggs, green beans, raw bones, calf liver, green cow tripe, and dog food. They don't get all of those things every day, but those are some very common things in their diet.

I don't believe dogs, or any animal, can survive exclusively on muscle meat. Wolves eat a variety of things, including bone, organ meat, fur, skin, etc. Wolves will eat fish, too. They also eat scraps left by humans.

While wolves and dogs are not the same thing, dogs are similar in that they can survive off of a wide variety of things so a dog's "natural" diet is how Laurelin put it and it's regional.

Some dogs have a high digestive tolerance and can literally thrive on anything. Some dogs can't.

It worries me to hear more and more stories of dogs that have digestive intolerance because a huge hunk of the immune system revolves on how the body processes food.

I feel that alot of the auto immune issues are connected, and I would really hesitate to breed a picky eater and definitely wouldn't breed a dog with food allergies.

Would a food allergy prevent a dog from eating something that should be in its natural diet? In many cases, dog owners are told to switch protein sources or carbohydrate sources to something less common then beef, chicken, potatoes, rice, and corn.
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Old 09-08-2013, 10:21 PM
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I think the more relevant questions is, "What is the healthiest diet for a dog?" The easy answer is "It depends on the dog." But even if a dog can survive on trash and leftovers, that doesn't mean it's the healthiest food for it.
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Old 09-08-2013, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saeleofu View Post
I think the more relevant questions is, "What is the healthiest diet for a dog?" The easy answer is "It depends on the dog." But even if a dog can survive on trash and leftovers, that doesn't mean it's the healthiest food for it.
Pretty much.

Since dogs devolved alongside humans (assuming a bit here, I guess) I would imagine their diets are about as diverse as a human's.

A human can 'survive' on McDonalds forever, but they're going to have lots of issues if that's the only thing they eat. Seems similar to a dog. They can live off of a crappy diet but it's not ideal for them.

Just like diets vary by person, they probably vary by dogs. I'm not sure anyone would have a 'natural' diet for humans, so a natural diet for dogs doesn't seem reasonable either.

And the wolves are dogs thing. Let's not forget that the average wolf only lives ~5 years. So natural does not equal ideal, IMO. Obviously that's not due (solely) to their diet, but it would make it difficult to see how their diet impacts their health as they age.
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Old 09-09-2013, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saeleofu View Post
I think the more relevant questions is, "What is the healthiest diet for a dog?" The easy answer is "It depends on the dog." But even if a dog can survive on trash and leftovers, that doesn't mean it's the healthiest food for it.
Yup.

I'm not sure why this is such an emotional topic, but I still havent looked up the other thread, feed what works and ideally feed what's best within your financial reach.

Le shrug.
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