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Old 08-05-2013, 07:38 AM
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AliciaD AliciaD is offline
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Default Question about contracts

As I am fantasy breeder hunting I have looked at a few contracts that were readily available on the breeders websites and I've noticed 3 contracts stated that they reserve the right to breed any of their bitches to any stud worthy dog at no cost.

I don't know... I just feel like after two years of showing or working the dog, getting him health tested, making sure that breeding him betters the breed etc etc that yeah, its great and all that you bred him, but no you cannot breed whatever bitch you want to him. He's my dog, I put in a lot of time, work, energy, and money to make sure he is breed worthy.

But then again, my two dogs are rescues and their contracts were basically "you must neuter" so I don't really have any experience with contracts. Is this weird?

I mean you would hope that you would like your breeder, their dogs, and their breeding program enough that studding wouldn't be some great pain- but to sign a contract saying that you can't refuse just squicks me out.
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Old 08-05-2013, 08:16 AM
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That seems weird to me. I mean, unless it's co owned I've never heard of that. Normally they will have a certain time period in which you must get them neutered/spayed... I guess if you were thinking about breeding yourself you would go for the breeding contract. I don't know. Maybe I'm sheltered.
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Old 08-05-2013, 09:18 AM
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Practices vary somewhat by breed by yeah that would raise a flag for me. Heck, Mira's a co-own and her contract still isn't nearly as one-sided or heavy-handed as that.

Now for a male puppy having "free" breed back rights is more common, usually a set number, but I'd still want some say in the situation.
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Old 08-05-2013, 09:52 AM
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Doesn't raise a red flag to me at all. As a breeder, we only have so much room and so many dogs we can reasonably spend enough time with in the day, train, show, and work. And as a breeder, it doesn't do much good for your breeding program if all of those "spots" are filled with males. It isn't easy to use a bitch in your own breeding program once you place her in another home, nor is it responsible to place one on a contract *requiring* the owner to breed that bitch, except in very specific circumstances. It's much easier to breed a litter for yourself, keep your pick bitch, and place the nicest males in the litter on contracts that allow you to wait those dogs out, see how nice they are, see how they perform, and either use them or collect them for use later down the line in your breeding program. And if it's a responsible, ethical breeder, that breeder is going to have more knowledge of their own lines and have more time, money, experience, effort and research invested in producing that dog than the owner could even begin to hold a candle to. Just because a male is placed on a contract that enables the breeder to use him freely, doesn't mean they're going to breed the hell out of him, or even ever breed to him at all. This is where thoroughly researching and trusting the breeder you get your dog from and carefully reading a contract comes in to play, but having a "it's my toy now and I'm not sharing" attitude from the beginning tells me that you're going to have a fairly limited amount of quality breeders to choose from, especially if you don't already have years of experience in the breed you're looking at. Tell me... Why would I, as a breeder, want to essentially, genetically "throw away" the nicest male in a litter to someone that doesn't respect me and the effort I've put into my breeding program?

Last edited by SevenSins; 08-05-2013 at 10:09 AM.
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Old 08-05-2013, 10:55 AM
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For clarity -- I read the OP as applying to any dog from these breeders, not just males. Upon a re-read, it looks like maybe this contract is specific to male puppies? In which case I have less of an issue with it.

I prefer bitches as a rule and so automatically thought in terms of having my girl pup taken back for breeding whenever the breeder wanted, which would be absurdin most circumstances especially for a performance dog.
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Old 08-05-2013, 11:55 AM
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I certainly don't think that if I A) paid full "purchase price" for a puppy that the breeder should get to use the dog free of charge (male or female); B) I don't get any say in the choice of mate, I should be required to allow the breeding.

But then again, I don't trust very many people with intact dogs.
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Old 08-05-2013, 06:42 PM
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[QUOTE=AliciaD;

With the ease of shipping sperm and whatnot it doesn't seem like a big deal- but I'm not familiar with the cost of such things.

.[/QUOTE]


Most of the time if you were too far away for a live breeding the breeder would pay shipping/collecting costs. This would be something that should be spelled out in a contract.

I always say that if you love a breeder but there is one thing in the contact you don't like then talk to then about it. A lot of breeders would be willing to work with a good home. Ask then why they do that and if you can find a middle ground. Like only x amount of breeding a or getting the dog collected x times and the breeder can use that.

I know a lot of breeders that if they sell a good male there is some sort of breeding contract in place. You can only keep so many dogs.

Also lets say worse case scenario the breeder does breed to the male way to much. Personally I would only have my dog collected for the breeder so if she wants to use what is collected and breed to much it doesn't really affect me as a pet owner. Getting into co breeding is a whole new ball game.

If you love the breeder except for that one thing offer a compromise. Let the breeder collect him x times and what they do with it is up to them. All you have to do is take him to the vet a couple of times free of charge.

The people who are saying well its my dog so too bad (generally speaking here) are usually the ones who complain because they can't get a puppy from a good breeder. Pure bred dogs is a two way street. Both the breeders and the buyers have to be willing to compromise and understand where the other person is coming from.
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Old 08-06-2013, 06:39 AM
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Thanks for the response.

I'm sure if I was actually puppy hunting and not just looking at breeders' contracts there would be an actual conversation and not just me being like "wha? Is this a thing?"
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Old 08-07-2013, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JennSLK View Post
I always say that if you love a breeder but there is one thing in the contact you don't like then talk to then about it. A lot of breeders would be willing to work with a good home. Ask then why they do that and if you can find a middle ground. Like only x amount of breeding a or getting the dog collected x times and the breeder can use that.
I've found this to be pretty true. My breeder and I have made some changes to my contract to accommodate a few things I wanted, such as being able to keep my future male intact until he is two.
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