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Old 02-15-2013, 03:42 PM
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AdrianneIsabel AdrianneIsabel is offline
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Default Types of herding styles

I was reading about Beaucerons and found this:
Quote:
Yes the Beauceron is a shepherd, but not a gatherer. Folks who purchase a Beauceron and expect the dog to gather sheep like a Border Collie will be very disappointed. The Beauceron is a Continental herder, and must be trained to perform herding chores. The Beauceron will not go out naturally and herd sheep around a pen. The Beauceron has an affinity for stock, but will not gather stock or balance a flock/herd instinctively.
I also remember Old English Sheep dogs are drovers, yes?

So... I am interested in what breeds herd, or did, in what styles and in addition to reading google I figured I would ask here as well.

Do herding trials only ask for gathering techniques?
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Old 02-15-2013, 03:50 PM
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The German Shepherd, Belgian Shepherd and Dutch Shepherd area also traditionally "tenders". But that doesn't mean they can't be "drovers" also.

In The Netherlands, they test the Belgian and Dutch Shepherds instinct as tenders. I was there to watch the testing process in 2011. I don't believe there are tests for that in the USA. But I can tell you I know plenty of Belgians who herd and have herding titles. A friend of mine keeps statistics on Belgians herding. http://www.belgiansdusoleil.com/herding_rankings.htm
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Old 02-15-2013, 04:26 PM
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I haven't gone too far into herding to answer your question, but I just wanted to comment that I was reading about beaucerons this morning as well, haha. I am amazed at the Journee du Beauceron...that is a fantastic program.
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Old 02-15-2013, 04:45 PM
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Honestly I'm so poorly at explaining it, so I will share with you this video of how a Beauceron herds. Essentially, they're a "living fence", which is what annoys me about AKC herding, even the pre-trial test is semi-set up more for what people think of as the "traditional" herding dog *cough-bordercollies*, as it asks for the dog at start to "gather" the flock to the handler even if it's only a short distance. The Beauceron was bred to run a fence line all day, keeping the sheep in, and predators out.

http://youtu.be/M8TO7lcJu4Y


On the flip side, the Pems are cattle drovers, herding the cattle in to market, in and out of pens, holding them, etc. I had a really good video of a Cardi droving cattle but it's going to take me a while to find it again.

Here's the Cardi!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFnc3...ACUQyvixUfvPiw

EDIT: give me a minute while I figure out how to embed the dang video!
Screw the embed, just click the link!
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Old 02-16-2013, 02:00 PM
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This applies to black mouths & houla which are used almost exclusively on rough stock like cattle and horses
Heelers- work the back side of the herd in an arc, and impart motion to the whole herd by presence and nipping as needed
Headers- use presence and position to push the front of the herd away from themselves and toward the direction the cowboy wants them to go
Windmill- ability of a dog, usually a header, to quickly completely circle the herd and keep it tightly packed for movement, only applies to big herds not when a dog does it to a half dozen or even two dozen
Catch- grabbing a hostile or flighty animal by the ear, cheek, nose, tail or testicles and essentially forcing it to stay in one spot
Throw- grabbing a hostile or flighty animal by the ear, nose or cheek AND using momentum and strength to cause the animal to flip off its feet by pulling its head under its body as its running

Most every cur dog isa healer or a header, windmilling, catching and throwing are signs of a superior or above average cur dog. A fair few cowboys keep bulldogs for catching and throwing because not enough cur dogs can do it well.
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Old 02-17-2013, 01:52 AM
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Smooth collies also tend to be drovers. From what I've read, rough collies not so much. I find it fascinating that there's a difference in herding styles between the two.
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Old 02-18-2013, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~WelshStump~ View Post
On the flip side, the Pems are cattle drovers, herding the cattle in to market, in and out of pens, holding them, etc. I had a really good video of a Cardi droving cattle but it's going to take me a while to find it again.

Here's the Cardi!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFnc3...ACUQyvixUfvPiw
Omg I have so much love for this dog.
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Old 02-18-2013, 02:45 PM
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Emily, for what it's worth all three dogs I have put on sheep (I know I'm an expert now) displayed very similar behaviors while playing off sheep.

Given we (my boss and I) took basics with Tucker, I did basics with Backup, and Sloan was only HIC'd (which she failed due to clamping down on the goats neck) so I have never been up into anything complicated. I wonder if some of their play and initial instinct on stock is similar but you'll see a lot more when you start shaping technical behaviors?
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Chili Brigades Brover 5/23/14 -

Arnold CGC TDI FD 6/29/04 - 07/05/13
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Old 02-18-2013, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
Emily, for what it's worth all three dogs I have put on sheep (I know I'm an expert now) displayed very similar behaviors while playing off sheep.

Given we (my boss and I) took basics with Tucker, I did basics with Backup, and Sloan was only HIC'd (which she failed due to clamping down on the goats neck) so I have never been up into anything complicated. I wonder if some of their play and initial instinct on stock is similar but you'll see a lot more when you start shaping technical behaviors?
Interesting! That's kind of more what I was wondering.

Also, re Sloan vs goat, I'm kind of worried about Blossom doing something similar LOL. I think she would calm down eventually and get into the groove but I also think predatory behavior and bites are pretty common in overexcited young dogs. I know when Aleron had Whimsy on stock the guy was pretty much like, "She's going to be amazing with training! But for now, I'll keep her on leash. Definitely on leash for now." I don't want her to nom anybody's stock and then have to pay for the vet. Keeva is really too small to do much damage though.
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Old 02-18-2013, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
Given we (my boss and I) took basics with Tucker, I did basics with Backup, and Sloan was only HIC'd (which she failed due to clamping down on the goats neck) so I have never been up into anything complicated. I wonder if some of their play and initial instinct on stock is similar but you'll see a lot more when you start shaping technical behaviors?
Did Sloan permanently injure the goat? When we took the girls to be instinct tested the guy running it told us about a GSD who opened one of his sheep up all along the side. And one of the ACD mixes running that day pulled out a whole big chunk of wool - if that sheep weren't so fluffy he would of done some damage.
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