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Old 01-01-2013, 01:53 AM
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Default Any American Cocker breeders that leave natural tails?

Do any exist in the US or Canada? One with excellent lines, of course. I grew up with a Cocker, and thought I'd never have one again because of all the health problems she had, but I think I'd go for it some day if I found a place with the right lines that didn't dock.
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Old 01-01-2013, 03:31 AM
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Do any exist in the US or Canada? One with excellent lines, of course. I grew up with a Cocker, and thought I'd never have one again because of all the health problems she had, but I think I'd go for it some day if I found a place with the right lines that didn't dock.
Docking is a breed standard requirement in NA through all legitimate NA registries, so I can't imagine that any "reputable" breeder here would be leaving tails intact. In my (extremely) limited Google search I did find a few kennels in some parts of Europe that produce very nice looking, intact American Cockers. I liked Four Seasons' dogs in Hungary http://fourseasons.uw.hu/ especially (well, some of them, not a fan at all of the bitch they have a current litter out of, but I really liked some of their other bitches). It also looks as though they health test their dogs, but I don't know what tests are necessary in the breed. Assuming of course that you'd be open to the possibility of having to import from further away to begin with.
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Old 01-01-2013, 08:30 AM
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I don't know of any off hand, but more breeders ARE leaving tails on dogs, or at least thinking about it. My most favorite ESS breeder is starting to leave tails on puppies!
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:06 PM
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I don't know of any off hand, but more breeders ARE leaving tails on dogs, or at least thinking about it. My most favorite ESS breeder is starting to leave tails on puppies!
^this.
I don't know any personally.. but I would do some digging. Maybe look up some natural rearing breeders, I have found they are often more open to "leaving things be"
I know quite a few breeders who now are leaving tails on mismarks.. perhaps find a breeder and ask.
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:00 PM
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Thanks. I was hoping it would start to go that way, as it is banned in some countries entirely, isn't it? I thought registries were starting to look into making it optional, but maybe soon.

This would probably be a few years off, so maybe by then...
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:36 PM
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Canada, docking isn't a confo requirement. Have to be a big name to win with a tailed dog though.

Good number of skeazy folk leaving tails on.. Majority of breeders I like do at least minor hunting with their dogs or other field work trials, and want dogs who also win in the confo ring.

Offhand I can't think of a breeder who I feel is well rounded on health, temperament and proving their dogs who doesn't dock. But, I am just fine with docking in my breed of choice and hope NA doesn't go the way of EU with bans on docking and cropping.
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Old 01-01-2013, 06:12 PM
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^this.
I don't know any personally.. but I would do some digging. Maybe look up some natural rearing breeders, I have found they are often more open to "leaving things be"
I know quite a few breeders who now are leaving tails on mismarks.. perhaps find a breeder and ask.
I would really like a naturally reared dog either way, regardless of which breed I end up with, and figure they might be my best bet for this.

BTW, I forgot to mention I'd be getting a dog for performance, so comformation beyond being built well isn't important. Color, marks, whatever wouldn't matter. I want a healthy dog with a good temperament and the ability and willingness to be a hiking/running/agility buddy. I realize breeders not going for comformation can be nasty, but for me, I'm looking for performance lines rather than show lines.

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Canada, docking isn't a confo requirement. Have to be a big name to win with a tailed dog though.

Good number of skeazy folk leaving tails on.. Majority of breeders I like do at least minor hunting with their dogs or other field work trials, and want dogs who also win in the confo ring.

Offhand I can't think of a breeder who I feel is well rounded on health, temperament and proving their dogs who doesn't dock. But, I am just fine with docking in my breed of choice and hope NA doesn't go the way of EU with bans on docking and cropping.
I really adore the look of your Smudge! Seeing your dogs is part of what got me interested in them again after I joined here, as well as watching one at some local agility trials.

I grew up with one, as did my boyfriend, and I had given up on the breed due to the health issues. But I know there are better lines now, 20-25 years later.

I'm in Alaska, so Canada might be as close as anything else I find. The dog I grew up with came from Canada, actually. What would you say are the very best breeders, tail docking aside?
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:19 PM
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It's possible, if you find the right breeder, and can really sell yourself to them, you might be able to get them to leave a tail on a puppy for you. Problem being you'd have to pick the puppy at a few days old.

A friend of mine did that with her Standard Poodle. She already had a dog from her chosen breeder, so an established relationship, she paid for the puppy and promised that she would take the puppy, whatever happened. Picked her out at 3 days old, and all the other pups in the litter were docked. She got a good dog.
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Old 01-01-2013, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyinsbt View Post
It's possible, if you find the right breeder, and can really sell yourself to them, you might be able to get them to leave a tail on a puppy for you. Problem being you'd have to pick the puppy at a few days old.

A friend of mine did that with her Standard Poodle. She already had a dog from her chosen breeder, so an established relationship, she paid for the puppy and promised that she would take the puppy, whatever happened. Picked her out at 3 days old, and all the other pups in the litter were docked. She got a good dog.
So what happens when the puppy picked shortly after birth turns out to be one that wouldn't be a good fit for that particular home? Or turns out to be the one that the breeder would have wanted for themselves (after all, isn't that the entire purpose of breeding a litter, rather than simply to sell puppies)? That doesn't sound like something a responsible breeder would do, at all.
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:23 AM
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So what happens when the puppy picked shortly after birth turns out to be one that wouldn't be a good fit for that particular home? Or turns out to be the one that the breeder would have wanted for themselves (after all, isn't that the entire purpose of breeding a litter, rather than simply to sell puppies)? That doesn't sound like something a responsible breeder would do, at all.
In the case of my friend's Poodle, the breeder might have picked that pup for herself, she turned out fabulous. Had a very short, but relatively successful show career. With a tail. (got a point at her first show, and some kind of "best puppy" award at a regional specialty) Then my friend got bored with the show thing. The bitch is still intact, and may be bred.

This is why you have to sell yourself for it to work, and whether it would work when you don't have an established relationship with the breeder, I don't know. My friend had already put a MACH on the Poodle she had from the breeder previously (her 2nd MACH Poodle), so the breeder was disposed to look upon her favorably. And as I said, she committed to taking the pup no matter what, and basically is the kind of home that any sane breeder would throw puppies at. Homes like that don't come along every day.
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