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Old 07-27-2012, 02:55 PM
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ihartgonzo ihartgonzo is offline
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Default Pit Bull Cases Jumping on the Lennox Bandwagon?

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Save-W...50404848326080

The dog supposedly got spooked by a passerby's "scared energy" and bit her. I don't like how the owner of the dog and everyone who jumped on the bandwagon are "blaming the victim" in this case. It reeks of dog whisperer jargon and low and behold, CM himself signed the petition apparently.

A member of a FB group that I'm in posted this and asked for opinions. A behaviorist who the owner of Wicca went to for help said that she DID jump up and bite the woman who was walking past, several feet away. On facebook, the owner describes it as "grazed", and implies that she simply scratched her when he knows she bit her! The owner said he DID NOT know if Wicca bit the civil servant, but when he came to help the woman, the owner let Wicca's leash go loose and she lunged at the man. Instead of getting a lawyer, the owner begged for help from this behaviorist admitting that Wicca is aggressive (who told him "UHH, I'm not a lawyer!") then went to Cesar Millan and a Pit Bull group he's associated with, who didn't do much more than e-mail the city reps.

There are thousands of people rallying around the owner of Wicca, calling this BSL, calling it insanity, horrible, comparing it to Lennox, etc. The difference is that Lennox didn't hurt anyone. He simply *looked* like a Pit Bull, was seized, tortured for 2 years and then euthanized without ever seeing his family. Wicca bit one or two people, was seized, was allowed to say goodbye to her owner & was PTS within a month. Isn't BSL killing a dog for their appearance solely? Isn't killing a dog who has proven that they are a danger to people normal in any breed? Opinions?

There is another case that just popped up and is getting thousands of supporters, for a Pit Bull named Piggy. http://www.facebook.com/helpsavepiggy She had escaped from her yard multiple times, and the most recent time, "scared" a jogger. They only say "scared" they don't go into any detail... and in all of the dog's pictures, ALL OF THEM, she's wearing a shock collar. Again they're jumping on the Lennox bandwagon. It makes me sad, personally. Lennox died for no reason. These dogs have owners who failed to contain, control, and train them. My APBT friends are very offended that these Pit Bulls who have shown aggression towards people are being made poster children for the breed... when they would PTS any APBT who displays HA, much less to a random person who isn't threatening them in any way.
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Old 07-27-2012, 05:37 PM
Teal Teal is offline
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I hate it.

I hate that these people with dogs who don't deserve media attention and DO deserve death are taking away from a dog who died for no reason.

It's a whole new level of low.
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  #3  
Old 07-27-2012, 05:45 PM
JessLough JessLough is offline
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The part that confuses me... Is if Wicca is in proper Montréal, there is no BSL there. There's only BSL in a couple areas just outside of Montréal (admittantly, some people call it Montréal), so...

But yah, I think it's ridiculous that they're taking the attention away from Lennox and others like him
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Old 07-27-2012, 05:55 PM
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Yea this is just wrong. The whole objection to BSL is that an individual dog should be judged based on its behavior, not its breed -- NOT that breeds traditionally targeted by BSL should get some kind of free pass for their behavior.

This is kind of infuriating me, actually, the more I think about it.
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Old 07-27-2012, 06:02 PM
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The bottom line, for me anyway, is that across the board, BSL must be stopped and methods of evaluation must be cleaned up.

Knowing the absolute truth about most of these cases is probably impossible; it's too subjective and too emotional.

But my first question when hearing of a dog bite is usually to wonder what the person was doing when, or before they were bitten. There's a world of difference between an aggressive dog and a defensive bite, and a defensive bite rarely deserves a death penalty.
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Old 07-27-2012, 07:26 PM
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The owner specifically told this behaviorist that Wicca had shown aggression towards people. He intentionally walked her late at night to avoid encountering people. He said Wicca was startled by the woman because of her "scared energy". Wtf? If the woman was screaming and charging at them, that's one thing, but Wicca had to lunge out and jump on the woman to bite her, she ripped her shirt open and bit her stomach, the woman was not in any way approaching or touching her. It really sounds like some Cesar Millan BS to me. And he has said he's used Cesar's methods on the poor dog, so she was probably a suppressed, ticking timebomb to begin with.

The issue here is that a civil servant can declare a dog dangerous to the public. It's not BSL. It would be better if they changed the laws to ensure that dogs get evaluated by a behaviorist before being put down. But, with shelters having to euthanize MILLIONS of dogs (most of them friendly, bomb-proof Pit Bulls) due to a lack of space and funds... I understand that it's not realistic to give every biting dog a huge amount of evaluation and time. Life isn't fair. I wish all dogs were given evaluations by behaviorists with PhDs before being euthanized. But I also wish all dogs were given a chance at LIFE in general, a chance at being loved and cared for by the people who bring them into this world. And that is not happening. Gonzo was nearly PTS for nipping (like no broken skin, a small bruise) my nieghbor after my neighbor chased and beat him with a shovel. I'm sure he would have been, if we hadn't begged our neighbor for forgiveness & promised to move, as well as getting a good lawyer. If he had also gone after a civil servant? I'm sure that would be the last straw. And he definitely is not a Pit Bull.

I feel like Wicca's owner lied, covered up, sensationalized and screamed as much as he could because he wanted to get his dog back... he turned to Facebook, exploited Lennox's story, and rallied good-hearted people who really care about BSL. I agree with you Teal, it is NOT fair to Lennox, nor to all of the countless innocent dogs who have died due to nothing but BSL. Jess, there is no BSL where Wicca lived, making it even more ridiculous to blame that for her death. I feel like publicizing incidents of dogs being at large and aggressive and blaming breed discrimination for their death is not doing the breed any good. I also feel like if these thousands of outraged people instead put their time & energy into adopting or fostering a Pit Bull who is on death row for no other reason than their breed, it'd do so much more good.

Instead, people are ignoring facts, making assumptions, and flooding facebook with bullshit like this:
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Old 07-27-2012, 09:39 PM
JessLough JessLough is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ihartgonzo View Post
The owner specifically told this behaviorist that Wicca had shown aggression towards people. He intentionally walked her late at night to avoid encountering people. He said Wicca was startled by the woman because of her "scared energy". Wtf? If the woman was screaming and charging at them, that's one thing, but Wicca had to lunge out and jump on the woman to bite her, she ripped her shirt open and bit her stomach, the woman was not in any way approaching or touching her. It really sounds like some Cesar Millan BS to me. And he has said he's used Cesar's methods on the poor dog, so she was probably a suppressed, ticking timebomb to begin with.

The issue here is that a civil servant can declare a dog dangerous to the public. It's not BSL. It would be better if they changed the laws to ensure that dogs get evaluated by a behaviorist before being put down. But, with shelters having to euthanize MILLIONS of dogs (most of them friendly, bomb-proof Pit Bulls) due to a lack of space and funds... I understand that it's not realistic to give every biting dog a huge amount of evaluation and time. Life isn't fair. I wish all dogs were given evaluations by behaviorists with PhDs before being euthanized. But I also wish all dogs were given a chance at LIFE in general, a chance at being loved and cared for by the people who bring them into this world. And that is not happening. Gonzo was nearly PTS for nipping (like no broken skin, a small bruise) my nieghbor after my neighbor chased and beat him with a shovel. I'm sure he would have been, if we hadn't begged our neighbor for forgiveness & promised to move, as well as getting a good lawyer. If he had also gone after a civil servant? I'm sure that would be the last straw. And he definitely is not a Pit Bull.

I feel like Wicca's owner lied, covered up, sensationalized and screamed as much as he could because he wanted to get his dog back... he turned to Facebook, exploited Lennox's story, and rallied good-hearted people who really care about BSL. I agree with you Teal, it is NOT fair to Lennox, nor to all of the countless innocent dogs who have died due to nothing but BSL. Jess, there is no BSL where Wicca lived, making it even more ridiculous to blame that for her death. I feel like publicizing incidents of dogs being at large and aggressive and blaming breed discrimination for their death is not doing the breed any good. I also feel like if these thousands of outraged people instead put their time & energy into adopting or fostering a Pit Bull who is on death row for no other reason than their breed, it'd do so much more good.

Instead, people are ignoring facts, making assumptions, and flooding facebook with bullshit like this:
yah that's what I thought, I know some places were saying she died due to BSL, and I'm like yah.. there's like 4 boroughs outside of Montreal (that some call Montreal) that have BSL, Montreal itself doesn't. MANY of the pitbulls from Ontario go to Montreal...
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Old 07-27-2012, 08:20 PM
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If the dog randomly bit a person doing nothing but walking by her in the opposite direction, the dog deserved to be euthanized.

This kind of crap irritates the stew outta me. And what will end up happening is actually undoing all the positive outcomes from the Lennox situation.

There's not room in this world for "pit bull" who "accidentally scares the hell out of people by chasing them and jumping on them and lightly biting them". And there is even less room in this world for their idiot owners.
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Old 07-27-2012, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miakoda View Post
If the dog randomly bit a person doing nothing but walking by her in the opposite direction, the dog deserved to be euthanized.

This kind of crap irritates the stew outta me. And what will end up happening is actually undoing all the positive outcomes from the Lennox situation.

There's not room in this world for "pit bull" who "accidentally scares the hell out of people by chasing them and jumping on them and lightly biting them". And there is even less room in this world for their idiot owners.
I go with this reaction. I've been reading the story kinda sad and puzzled. But the point is nobody wants a strange dog jumping on them. And as a responsible pitty owner you're way vigilant anyway. But if the owner knew he had a history of people aggression...a super secure harness? a muzzle? You have to have full control of your dog. Our babies face enough prejudice as it is without stories like this.
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Old 07-27-2012, 11:06 PM
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Sweet72947 Sweet72947 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miakoda View Post
If the dog randomly bit a person doing nothing but walking by her in the opposite direction, the dog deserved to be euthanized.
No a dog doesn't deserve to be euthanized. A dog is an animal, they don't know right from wrong. They aren't aggressive just to p*ss you off. If a dog is so uncomfortable in daily life that he can't function as normal companion animal, and especially if this discomfort causes him to become a danger to society, then it is a kindness to set them free of a tortured existence. But no dog deserves to be euthanized.

I agree with the OP though that people shouldn't be trying to ride Lennox's coattails for a situation that is completely different. It just undermines the message that Lennox's situation sends.
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