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Old 05-13-2012, 11:14 PM
crazedACD crazedACD is offline
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Alright..just curious here. Would it be unwise of me to enter in a rally trial without actually ever doing anything in rally? I'm kind of bored and have been wanting to do something..I just can't find classes that work within my schedule (why can't I find any Saturday classes?!). I suppose a show and go match might be better but I don't want to look dumb, haha!

Romeo is home-trained, though we did do some drop in comp-o classes. Oh and a basic ob class way back. I think honestly he is fine with the exercises, it's just me that doesn't know what I'm doing in rally. I just need a little brush-up in public. I've been watching some videos and feel he would be up to par. I am considering going to one and just observing, can you do that?
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Old 05-13-2012, 11:20 PM
Saeleofu Saeleofu is offline
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Just look over the rules, memorize the signs, and give it a go! You can look up videos of signs if they're hard to understand, or ask here of course. I know when I started some of the explanations of signs are so not helpful, but once you see it done once it turns out to be the easiest thing in the world.

You can most definitely just go and watch, I highly recommend doing so. It's just all so much easier to understand when you see it in person.
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Old 05-13-2012, 11:30 PM
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I've never taken a Rally class and haven't had much of an issue on a course. That said, I did have somebody that helped me along the way so I at least knew the rules and what the signs mean. But I screwed up on a station last summer and cost Dance her title. I think it would be a lot more straight forward and I'd probably get higher scores if I took a class. It's not hard, but it's easy to feel lost sometimes if you're not used to it.
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Old 05-13-2012, 11:56 PM
~Tucker&Me~ ~Tucker&Me~ is offline
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I trained it on my own and did one drop in class a day before my first trial. We got our RN that weekend Give it a go, but definitely go watch a trial first. For example, I didn't know we were supposed to be to the right of the signs until I did the drop in class the day before woops.
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Old 05-14-2012, 12:32 AM
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Thanks guys. Are there any major differences between APDT and AKC? Which is better?
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Old 05-14-2012, 12:37 AM
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Thanks guys. Are there any major differences between APDT and AKC? Which is better?
Well I would have gone with APDT but there were no trials around my area, at least not with any frequency. I opted for CKC because trials would happen regularly where I live. That might be worth checking out because if there aren't many APDT trials near you it might be more worth your while to just go with AKC.
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Old 05-14-2012, 01:25 AM
Saeleofu Saeleofu is offline
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There are no APDT trials around here, so I started in AKC and then UKC. I like UKC much better.
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Old 05-14-2012, 05:11 AM
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Rally Novice is really very straight forward IMO. Definitely doable without a specific class, and many people do. Once you get in to advanced and excellent though, especially now with the new signs and new rules, I think you need to either memorize the rule book or at least have a place to do run throughs where folks are willing to help.

We went to a trial Saturday and lots of people were having trouble with the halt-two steps-CTH sign. Not because their dogs couldn’t do the exercise, but because of handler errors - waiting for the dog to catch up instead of moving on and having the dog catch up to the handler. Depending on the judge and how much of a stickler they are, you can easily NQ on handler errors despite having a great run. I would know, I’m really good at costing us points over stupid stuff.
One judge took off 10 points for taking too big of a step in a pivot, another time it was 10 points for not pausing AFTER the moving stand (you can’t pause when putting the dog in the stand but you have to pause after you circle the dog and return to heel). It can get kind of complicated, and if you don’t know the ins and outs, those handler errors really start adding up.

I have not shown APDT b/c there aren’t many in this area. AKC judging has gotten tougher IME, but APDT has the reputation for being tougher judge-wise (I train with an APDT judge). The biggest difference from the dog’s POV is that you can carry treats in the ring in APDT, not in AKC. I’m not sure how I feel about that, but there it is...
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Old 05-14-2012, 06:06 AM
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Personally I like APDT better because the courses are longer and more interesting. I do think AKC is easier. In APDT you *cannot* double command or you'll lose 3 points. In AKC rally you do not lose points for repeated commands.

I think the hard part about rally is knowing all the ins and outs and little rules. Like you have to pause after the walk around exercises in AKC. Those little things that can make a big difference. A class with a good instructor will help a lot with that.
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Old 05-14-2012, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by elegy View Post
Personally I like APDT better because the courses are longer and more interesting. I do think AKC is easier. In APDT you *cannot* double command or you'll lose 3 points. In AKC rally you do not lose points for repeated commands.

I think the hard part about rally is knowing all the ins and outs and little rules. Like you have to pause after the walk around exercises in AKC. Those little things that can make a big difference. A class with a good instructor will help a lot with that.
With the new rules, yes, you can absolutely lose points for repeated commands. Depends on the judge and how tough they are, but the rules do state you can take points off for slow commands and repeated commands. What you do not get dinged for in rally (that you do get dinged for in regular obedience) is encouraging the dog.
For example. If I'm going through the spirals encouraging my dog with my voice (no fake luring, snapping or clapping) I'm fine. But if I halt and get a slow sit or have to ask for it more than once, you bet some judges will take anywhere from 1 to 10 points off. Just depends on the judge and how they interpret the rules - see below.
I always look at the judges sheet, and I've knocked over a cone and got no points off, ticked a jump and only got 3 points off, then on a really nice 180 pivot - forward, I didn't keep my feet "all the way" in the pie plate before going forward and lost 10 points. Go figure.

What I've noticed in AKC is that the judges in our area are scoring a lot tougher and are more in-line with what you will see in the traditional obedience ring. Definitely in the past AKC judges were just Q'ing everything, but the last couple of shows I've seen a marked difference, not just after April, but leading up to it too. IMO its a good thing.
Now, according to FB folks, in some areas they aren't even using the new signs and I've seen some videoed runs that Q'd that around here would totally not have Q'd, so I think there are some regional differences too.

AKC rules - I've bolded some parts.
I think part of the confusion is that in traditional obedience you have can only use verbal OR signal. Rally states you can do both - which in the traditional obedience world counts as a double command.
Quote:
Minor Deduction (1-2 points) for each of the following:
• Tight leash
• Dog interfering with handler
• Poor sits
• Slow, delay, or resistance to respond
• Touching or ticking a jump, pylon, post or person
• Out of position

Minor to Substantial Deduction (1-10 points) for each of the following:
• Repeat of a station—only one (1) retry of each station will be
allowed for all class levels. Repeat of a station is an automatic 3
point deduction.
Pylon/post knocked over on Figure Eight, Spiral and Serpentine
• Lack of control
• Lack of teamwork
• Lack of briskness
• Handler error*
• Loud command or intimidating signal
• Excessive barking
• Hitting the jump
Patting/clapping in Excellent – per occurrence

Substantial Deduction (6-10 points) for each of the following:
• Incorrectly performed station** (Automatic 10 point deduction)
• Failure to complete the Sit Stay Exercise (IP)–No retries allowed
• Failure of dog to go over the jump in the proper direction (IP) – no
retries allowed
• Luring /pleading with the dog
• Lack of natural manner

Non-qualifying (NQ) scores shall be given for:• Minimum requirements not met
• Dog unmanageable or uncontrolled barking
• Consistently tight lead
• Dog that eliminates while in the ring for judging
• Handler error*
• Station not attempted by handler***
• Non-qualifying errors may not be re-tried
* Handler errors can be assessed from 1 to 10 points up to non-qualifying.
Handler errors can be assessed at any station or during movement
between stations on a course. Once a handler has stopped on any halt
exercise, the handler cannot move their feet to assist a dog without
incurring a handler error.
** Incorrectly Performed (IP) stations occur when a team attempts
a station and fails to perform the principal parts of the station on
the first attempt. The handler may choose to retry the station once,
for a correct performance, accepting the mandatory 3-point deduction
for the retry of the station. The station is considered an IP if the
handler chooses not to retry or fails to perform the station correctly
on the second attempt.
*** A station will be considered Not Attempted if: (refer to glossary)
• Handler completely passes the station without noticing the station
• Handler approaches sign but chooses not to do the exercise
• Handler approaches sign but does not begin the exercise
described on the sign
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