Kelpie vs Koolie vs BC vs English Shepherd??

[FG167]

I was aware of Kelpies and Border Collies before I joined this forum. Now I'm intrigued by Koolies and English Shepherds and would love to hear more information about them. I am not adding one anytime soon I am just really curious and would like to hear the similarities and differences.

[SaraB]

Linds will be able to answer better than I can but I put the koolie temperament somewhere between Border Collies and Kelpies. Border Collies are very intense, have insane focus but with that can come some crazy issues that I'm not a huge fan of. They also herd with their eyes and have that famous border collie crouch. They are also very dependent and responsive to their handlers. Kelpies are independent because they were bred to gather stock out of sight of the handler, they also tend to be pushier than border collies and they do not herd with their eyes. They are more likely to nip stock and are used a lot on cattle. Koolies are somewhere in between, not as dependent on handlers as border collies but not nearly as independent as kelpies. That is what I want in agility, I want a dog to be responsive to me but without the obsessiveness of a border collie. I was looking at kelpies for a while but the independent tendencies made me look elsewhere. The way I see it, a good koolie should be the best of both worlds without the extremes. We'll see what I say after I get my girl

[Laurelin]

Actually all the kelpies I have seen work are strong eyed dogs, much like a typical border collie. The USBCHA trials I've gone to have had kelpies run and they all do the crouch, stare, and stalking that BCs are so famous for. I get the feel (could be totally wrong) that English shepherds are very loose eyed and that koolies don't use as much eye as kelpies.

To make it even more confusing, check out Welsh sheepdogs. There's a few of them around here and they are pretty well settled between the BC and ES temperaments. They're loose eyed dogs though.

For the record, I have never been around kelpies outside of watching them at stockdog trials.

[release the hounds]

Too bad nobody around here has any Koolies and even if they did, they probably wouldnt' have loads of crazy stories with pictures as proof anyway.

[Linds]

Originally Posted by release the hounds

Too bad nobody around here has any Koolies and even if they did, they probably wouldnt' have loads of crazy stories with pictures as proof anyway.

Nope, no crazy stories and no Koolies!

Koolies to me seem more light hearted and happy. Life is fun. Work is fun. Things are FUN. They tend to be very people friendly, especially when younger. Traveler still loves strangers but he's become much more focused on me rather than strangers as he's aged.

They tend to be late bloomers. Drive doesn't fully turn on till they're older and I had to really work on a retrieve, did not come naturally.

Very vocal when excited and things are HAPPENING and known for making all sorts of noises short of outright talking.

Not known for any animal aggression but they are a herding breed that plays rough and can easily overwhelm some other dogs.

Strong, in your face personality. Aren't shy of slamming into you, jumping on you.

Enjoy not touching the ground They like to be on things, very cat like in mannerisms but not behavior. Traveler goes around the house trying his best not to touch the ground.

Not known for nerve issues, sound sensitivity and none for a stable temperament. Traveler slept through 4th of July while outside with people setting off fireworks left and right and a major show going on close. From the day he got off the plan he was ready for anything, I never had to worry about him getting nervous or shy with anything I took him to no matter how crowded, loud or busy it was.

Tireless and energetic with a incredibly nice off switch built in (Still need exercise and for that off switch to be encouraged) but will spring up at any hint of things happening.

I like how Sara said it

I want a dog to be responsive to me but without the obsessiveness of a border collie.

. Traveler had amazing focus as a puppy and that's only grown but he's doesn't require me to give him constant feed back, he can work independently from me while taking direction easily.

They can be overstimulated easily and need to work on being able to handle stimulating environments.

[vandog]

Originally Posted by Linds

:
They can be overstimulated easily and need to work on being able to handle stimulating environments.

This! Exactly what I saw.

[Linds]

Originally Posted by vandog

This! Exactly what I saw.

I think it has a lot to do with age and maturity. Like I said, they turn on later in life and so when they are younger their "Life is a big GAME" tends to make stimulating environments explode their brains until they come into themselves and learn to deal with it.

[Shai]

Well this forum has umpteen million border collies, soon-to-be three Koolies plus an honorary one (owned by family members of members), an English Shepherd and some honorary ones...

Where the heck are our Kelpies? We clearly have a Kelpie shortage...



Oh and for what it's worth, I wouldn't necessarily even put English Shepherds in the same group with Koolies, Kelpies, and BCs. The later seem to be herding specialists on the working side of things, whereas English Shepherds seem to be meant more as all-in-one, jack-of-all-trades generalists. Herding generalists (drive or gather, loose eyed heeler), some livestock guardian tendencies, some gun dog and treeing work...basically a bit of all the sorts of work one might expect to find on a small working farm.

[AdrianneIsabel]

Aren't kelpies similiar to but less, erm, assholish as cattle dogs?

[Laurelin]

Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel

Aren't kelpies similiar to but less, erm, assholish as cattle dogs?

I have to say they seem to work a lot more like a border collie than an ACD from what I've seen (which is not all that much). The kelpies at the trials I went to did work a little bit more aggressively than the BCs in my newbie eyes. They would go in for a heel or a nip more often, but they relied primarily on eye. I can't think of another breed other than BCs and kelpies that are really typically strong eyed. I'm assuming that's why USBCHA trials (that I've been to) are mostly border collie with a few kelpies thrown in. You never see any other breeds running them.

I do agree that English shepherds in my mind belong more with Aussies and other 'all purpose' kinds of herding dogs.

I really wish Welshies were more common over here. I'm not sure how they compare to living with a BC or if they're too similar but the ones I know of are running low 4's and 3.9's in flyball. They're really neat dogs.