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Old 02-11-2012, 01:53 AM
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ladyhannibal ladyhannibal is offline
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Default Puppy Tooth Problem, HELP!

Okay, for starters I found your site after desperately searching the web on 'chipped dog puppy teeth' and come across this old thread http://www.chazhound.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102905 which seemed to offer a lot of help but I thought I would post my own dog's dilemma up here and see what feedback I got.

In the beginning we got this puppy from a breeder at about fifteen weeks old. His puppy teeth were chipped but he seemed happy and otherwise healthy (Marty we've called him).

After taking him to my vet for his shots and a examination she seemed to think his teeth were fine but after poking an prodding him for more than five minutes Marty cried out.

She prompted an x ray and got it and told us she believed Marty had a bone anomaly known as lumbar stenosis. He could get better, he could not. Only time would tell. We tell her about a food we have looked into (Avoderm grain free red meat and potato) and she recommends it highly).

She said we should contact the breeder and see if she would take the dog back, and we did, but we didn't want to give Marty back - we were already too attached to him - and he seemed so fine and healthy. She told us she never any problems with corgis' backs before but said she would take him back if we wanted to do that.

We thought we would wait, and she agreed to that.

After a couple weeks of the dog seeming normal, he plays, runs, jumps, all the things a normal puppy should do. I notice a couple front milk teeth come out and behind his fang becomes red, smelly, and swollen - to a point his lip buldges - and in a matter of hours! His bowels also became very very loose.

I take him back to the vet and she says she believes Marty has bitten or chewed something and damaged his gum somehow. She prescribes antibiotics (that he is to take for two weeks). She asks about the back problem and when we tell her he acts and appears normal, no pain, she shrugs and says it must have been growing bones.

Marty did not take well to the antibiotics. Nothing serious but it did tear his bowels up and made his itch and whine.

However (the mouth sore healed and a tooth emerged from the swollen spot), a week or so later his new incisors cut through (top middle incisors), however, within days he chips them. Normal play now and he is an indoor dog!

We take anything away we feel he may have chipped them on and later, after two more incisors cut through two top and two bottom, and he chips them soon after as well. He even chips the premolar he cut! His teeth also became yellow quickly, some even cutting yellow.

Marty seemed happy and playful and didn't act like the chipping bothered him at all. He did, however, have loose smelly runny stool. Some with yellowish mucus in it. He also slowed down on his eating and eventually refused his dog food.

We took him back to the vet and she said she believed she would have to pull all the chipped teeth, and if he chipped every tooth, then she would pull all his teeth. She also said the dog had a case of gingivitis and he would look forward to a life on and off antibiotics, major dental repair and cleaning if he kept any of his teeth at all. Pretty much then she harped me, rather bluntly, that I was already told to take the dog back before and that was what I should do. I expressed that I loved the dog and wanted to do what I could for him and she pretty much said there was nothing I could do to keep him 'healthy'.

By now I was out quite a bit of money (and yes the dog came from good stock, he was also very pricy) and you've got to understand I am on a fixed income, I care for my fiancee who has renal failure. Amongst other issues....

I left the office in tears, I felt insulted and made a fool. I called the breeder back that evening and she said she would take him back after she talked to the vet.

Verified, she called back and at first expressed she would probably put Marty to sleep (yeah...THAT really helped) but that she would do what she could to avoid doing that, expressing she had never had to consider putting a five month old puppy to sleep ever before in her twenty five year history in breeding corgis.

So we met, cried, and she took Marty back with a promise of another puppy (not that that really helped then).

She called back the next day to say that Marty got sick in her car and vomited blood, later that night he also pooped coagulated blood (but was otherwise fine). She was very concerned, as were we, and said she was taking him to a vet she knew to see what was wrong the next day.

She got him to eat the next day, changed his diet from the food we were feeding him, and slowly his bowels firmed, nice and healthy, for the first time.

She called us back delighted but said she was still taking him anyway. She suggested it could have been the food we had him on...it got us thinking...

After taking him to her vet and talking to two other vets she said that was most likely the case. Her vet even told her that the food we were feeding him was so poor of nutrients it wasn't supplying Marty enough supplements to support his teeth! He also said he believed the antibiotics my vet gave him contained Tetracycline and had stained and possibly made his teeth brittle. He also said that he could not detect a bone problem in the dog, and neither on the x rays, he said that lumbar stenosis could not be detected any earlier than four to six years in a dog and that it would take more than an x ray to diagnose it. He also said, by reviewing all my vet invoices, that I was being grossly over charged.

She offered I could come to her vets office and take the dog back if I wanted (the vet agreed to keep him if I didn't - he already had three corgis), that she still would stand behind his health if something were to come up (she guarantees her dogs' health for four years sometimes more) , or I could have another puppy.

I wanted my dog back. So I drove to her vet's office and picked him up, speaking to him about all the same things she discussed and he verified.

He did say that all Marty's teeth were puppy teeth and that he would not grow his permanents until about eight months - and the red swollen gums, said to be gingivitis, were normal tender puppy gum breaking in new teeth. He said the dog shouldn't have any dental problems as long as he remained on the different food and not the old (the one my vet said was good for him!). He said the food had tore the dog's system up so bad it nearly killed him.

My only beef with him is I know for a fact Marty lost 'baby teeth' from the front. Those chipped teeth ARE his adult teeth...aren't they?

Anyways, were overjoyed to have our little dog back...we just hope nothing turns sour and into plenty of $$$$$. That would be bad indeed.

I also decided to no longer use my old vet and have since looked for a new one. I believe I have one, good recommendations, and will soon give them a call.

I have also started brushing his teeth once a day...I don't know if that will help, but I'm trying!

Is this something that is going to be manageable or is this going to turn into something ugly?...

I've sent some pics along (I can post more if needed), how do his teeth look? I need feedback! This is driving me crazy!!!! We love him so much...

http://www.chazhound.com/forums/blog...1&d=1328943012

http://www.chazhound.com/forums/blog...1&d=1328943012
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  #2  
Old 02-11-2012, 10:30 AM
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lizzybeth727 lizzybeth727 is offline
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It sounds like you have a vet you trust now, so I don't think I can say anything other than to take his recommendations.

One thing I will say, though, is that vets rarely know anything at all about nutrition. Most recommend Science Diet or other brands who give the office a kickback for recommending their food. It's not AT ALL suprising to me that the vet may have recommended a sub-par food. Generally the best place to get dog food recommendations is your breeder, as long as your breeder is a reputible breeder (as it sounds like yours is).
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Old 02-11-2012, 11:06 AM
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Whatever he's doing doesn't look too bad and IMO they look like his baby canines unless something is up there. Dogs can really rip up their mouths on random stuff. It happens and very simply I might watch this pup for teeth destructive behaviors like rock chewing, wire pulling etc but really. I'm not sure I'd do much beyond keeping an eye on it. If he acts ok odds are he is ok - his gums look ok to me - just like a normal teething puppy.
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Old 02-11-2012, 01:12 PM
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His fore most teeth are adults (the ones in front between the canines), but the canines aren't so I'm suspecting since I can't see them, the others might not be yet. Those in the front look fine to me. As for the food you were feeding, I myself have never liked the Avoderm company (don't ask, it's just personal), but that aside I looked up the GA on this formula, also noting I generally don't recommend puppies be fed Grain-free foods as they tend to not conform properly to growing puppy nutrition, particularly, they tend to be out of range in Calcium and Phosphorus. C/P needs to be as close in range as possible, this is what the food you were feeding looks like:
Calcium 2.00 %
Phosphorus 1.20 %

I'd prefer to see something closer than that, this could cause problems.
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Old 02-11-2012, 01:55 PM
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The incisors are his adult teeth. I can see some yellow spots on them. His canine teeth are babies. Usually they dont fall out for another month or so. Your previous vet could have very well given you antibiotics with tetracycline in them. It is proven to cause yellow staining and such in baby teeth. I think brushing his teeth daily is good. I would watch his teeth as he might have lasting effects on his adult teeth from the anitbiotics. Watch for any holes in his teeth specifically (not just on the outside, look on the inside too!).
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