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Old 11-18-2009, 06:39 PM
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I just read most of this book and skimmed the rest.

My initial thoughts are that it is an excellent book - well written, lots of good examples and training plans and an effective approach. It let me down a bit though because much of it seems to be geared towards structured class exercises with controlled distractions and some is geared towards agility training and none of it really explains ways to apply the training in public settings without having done a CU class. Exercises that have dogs moving around each other in a variety of controlled ways won't really help when you need to walk the dog through town.

IMO, this is a great book for trainers and serious enthusiasts and anyone who is or will be taking a CU class. But would I recommend it for the average JQP dog owner? Not as a first choice. I would recommend Click to Calm over CU to the average dog owner. CU might be a bit overwhelming.

For anyone else that has read this book, what did you think of it? Would you recommend it? Have you used all or part of the training described in the book and if so, how'd it go?
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Old 11-18-2009, 06:44 PM
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Yes, very much reccommended. I have read it and used most portions of the book.

Just get creative. You can play LAT (look at that) anywhere and with anything. I do this the most with my fearful dog.

Mat work helps as well. Especially with indoor behaviors, but I have pulled out our mat at a show too.

I probably wouldn't reccommend it to someone who didn't have a good understanding of clicker training. Its very much about using shaping to get the right responses and WATCH your dog to know if you are pushing too far.
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Old 11-18-2009, 08:25 PM
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I agree with everything you said.

I really enjoyed the book and was able to stop my Lab from being so over aroused when other dogs did agility or simply played around him with the look at that game.

I wanted to try the dog in your face game as well even tho he doesnt have agression issues but like you said the book only talked about how to do it in a controlled setting and I dont have much access to other dogs that I could play that game with.

I do reccomend the book but for people who have a good amount of clicker training experence otherwise I think it would become a bit confusing to some.
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Old 11-18-2009, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by corgipower View Post
IIMO, this is a great book for trainers and serious enthusiasts and anyone who is or will be taking a CU class. But would I recommend it for the average JQP dog owner? Not as a first choice. I would recommend Click to Calm over CU to the average dog owner. CU might be a bit overwhelming.
This exactly. It's always kind of suprised me that about 90% of the time CU is suggested as the first chioce for reactive dog issues on this forum, rather than C2C. CU is better for people who want to go on to do agility, flyball, or other such sports, but for JQP, I usually recommend C2C first.
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Old 11-18-2009, 09:13 PM
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Thanks for the review, that's very helpful!
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Old 11-19-2009, 07:28 AM
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CU is overwhelming to me, I've tried a few of times to get through it and fell asleep every time.

As someone with an over reactive dog, I feel pretty desperate for answers. I had hopes that book would show me the way. The hope I had, diminished soon after picking up this book.

I won't ever give up on Peyton, so I have to keep going, keep trying anything and everything. I'm trying to find someone locally that teaches CU in a class setting. Maybe that's my answer but what I can say is that the book didn't do it for me.

Peyton learned LAT quickly and it helped her in some fearful situations, but LAT was useless when she saw another dog. There is just no reward greater to her than playtime and even if the dog is a mile away she still cannot be refocused. I guess I could start at 2 miles but I think this is beginning to border on the ridiculous.

I "think" Leslie uses the term hypervigilante in her book and I would describe Peyton as hypervigilante to the power of 10. Maybe I should use the book to bop Peyton on the top of the head because nothing I've tried "in" the book has worked so far.

Honestly, I can't recommend this book unless you are a well qualified dog trainer to begin with and have an inordinate amount of time to digest it all and complete the program start to finish.

There are no quick fixes in this book at least that I have found, and in order for it to have any success, you have to read your dog very precisely and work right at the edge of threshold. But like Corgi said, in the real world you can't always control all the conditions and I can see myself getting frustrated and inpatient when things don't go "by the book".

It's well written I agree, but I also think it's beyond the average dog owners ability to grasp and implement.
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Old 11-19-2009, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeLacy View Post

Peyton learned LAT quickly and it helped her in some fearful situations, but LAT was useless when she saw another dog. There is just no reward greater to her than playtime and even if the dog is a mile away she still cannot be refocused. I guess I could start at 2 miles but I think this is beginning to border on the ridiculous.

I "think" Leslie uses the term hypervigilante in her book and I would describe Peyton as hypervigilante to the power of 10. Maybe I should use the book to bop Peyton on the top of the head because nothing I've tried "in" the book has worked so far.

Honestly, I can't recommend this book unless you are a well qualified dog trainer to begin with and have an inordinate amount of time to digest it all and complete the program start to finish.

There are no quick fixes in this book at least that I have found, and in order for it to have any success, you have to read your dog very precisely and work right at the edge of threshold. But like Corgi said, in the real world you can't always control all the conditions and I can see myself getting frustrated and inpatient when things don't go "by the book".

It's well written I agree, but I also think it's beyond the average dog owners ability to grasp and implement.

Just reading your post a few things pop up. Your attitude will have a lot to do with how your dog reacts. I have known some great owners who have well trained dogs who compete in flyball and agility who can't teach a good heel. You know why? They think its boring. Their attitude to heeling gets in their way of teaching it to their dog. Dogs are sooo intune with is.

You say its 'bordering on the ridiculous' but if thats what it would take then its not ridiculous to your dog. I have got from your posts you have a set idea of how things 'aught' to be. You need to stop and see how your dog responds not how you think they should respond.

There are no quick fixes anywhere.

You have said in previous posts you use the clicker in a fundamentally wrong way. (lol you break one of the cardinal premises of the whole process) You don't always reward a click. That alone could be why this doesnt' work for you.


I do agree from skimming this book its not for JQPublic.
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Old 11-19-2009, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeLacy View Post
CU is overwhelming to me, I've tried a few of times to get through it and fell asleep every time.

As someone with an over reactive dog, I feel pretty desperate for answers. I had hopes that book would show me the way. The hope I had, diminished soon after picking up this book.

I won't ever give up on Peyton, so I have to keep going, keep trying anything and everything. I'm trying to find someone locally that teaches CU in a class setting. Maybe that's my answer but what I can say is that the book didn't do it for me.

Peyton learned LAT quickly and it helped her in some fearful situations, but LAT was useless when she saw another dog. There is just no reward greater to her than playtime and even if the dog is a mile away she still cannot be refocused. I guess I could start at 2 miles but I think this is beginning to border on the ridiculous.

I "think" Leslie uses the term hypervigilante in her book and I would describe Peyton as hypervigilante to the power of 10. Maybe I should use the book to bop Peyton on the top of the head because nothing I've tried "in" the book has worked so far.

Honestly, I can't recommend this book unless you are a well qualified dog trainer to begin with and have an inordinate amount of time to digest it all and complete the program start to finish.

There are no quick fixes in this book at least that I have found, and in order for it to have any success, you have to read your dog very precisely and work right at the edge of threshold. But like Corgi said, in the real world you can't always control all the conditions and I can see myself getting frustrated and inpatient when things don't go "by the book".

It's well written I agree, but I also think it's beyond the average dog owners ability to grasp and implement.

You MUST have a good understanding of the goals of CU in order to implement them. If your dog is THAT worked up you are doing it all wrong. If two miles is the necessary distance then that is what you work with.

THERE ARE NO QUICK FIXES WITH REACTIVE DOGS.


There just aren't. My dog is almost 4, she is still reactive although she is less reactive than she was two years ago, or even one year ago. You must work constantly and YOU must be contantly hypervigilant to the dogs surroundings and her mood/behavior. If your dog is that recative why in the world would you take her to the dog park??????
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Old 11-19-2009, 11:55 AM
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How about a discussion for C2C?
Feel free to start a C2C thread.
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Old 11-19-2009, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by OutlineACDs View Post
If your dog is that recative why in the world would you take her to the dog park??????
Well Peyton is hypervilgant by Leslies definition when she walks out of the front door for even a walk. Head scanning everything and everywhere, bouncy bouncy, pull pull until she heels. She heels very well once she hears the command until she finds another dog and she is ALWAYS scanning.

I take her to the DP to burn off energy and socialization and the fact she loves it so much. She would actually rather play ball than chase dogs and so I focus on that with her and Jax at the DP. Originally, I thought flooding her with other dogs would be the answer, it appears now it had the opposite effect.

One would think, that a tennis ball would refocus her when we are not at the DP. For some strange reason it only works at the DP and for as long as I throw it. If I take a break then she's off to chase and play with dogs.

Peyton has one speed at the DP, "fast as her legs will take her". She will run until her legs give out from under her. I have to take her home before she hurts herself. She just loves it!

I also thought getting Jax as a 24/7 play buddy would curtail her enthusiasm. Jax had only been here 5 or 6 weeks now and they play all day, but if I take them to the DP, Peyton is STILL ready to run until she drops. Peyton's name should be Play-ton.
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