Your help is appreciated.....

[Golden_barcelona]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello all dog lovers!!

Yes, it sounds wierd but it is very true. My dog seems to be double faced.....Just for the good order, this is my third Golden Retriever. I adopted Klaus (thatīs his name) , a beautiful 17 months old Golden with excellent papers, about three months ago. He adjusted really well, also to the other family-members and I can see he is a happy dog. He gets his long walks, home cooked food for him (yes, dogfood but I make it myself) is hardly alone.

With all my dogs I train them that they are NOT allowed to eat any food that is on the streets (in case some weirdo puts poison to kill dogs....)

Klaus just loves white bread, normal french white bread. This is where the problem kicks in. When HE sees the bread or food before me, and takes it in his mouth, that is when he changes caracter. He becomes really agressive, shows his teeth and there is nothing I can do..... He WANTS to eat that food or piece of bread, no matter what! At home when he is eating you can touch his food, touch him and he would not do a thing. ONLY outside on the street.

He is normally really a lovely and sweet dog, has the typical Golden Retriever caracteristics but this tick makes him a monster.

Any suggestions what I can do to stop this?

Thank you and regards

Arie

[Athe]

Just curious, but, how exactly are you training your dog not to pick up food in the streets?

[Julie]

Arie,
I am also curious, if you have trained him not to eat on the streets, why is he eating bread on the streets?

Maybe I have misunderstood your question?

But if this is the only time his aggression happens, only feed him at home.

I don't feed my dogs bread anyway.

What kind of "dog food" are you making yourself? Maybe he is not getting all the nutrients he needs?

Julie.

[bubbatd]

From what I understand, you've taught him to
" leave it " when it comes to street food , except when it comes to bread ??? If this is true, his system may really be needing " bread" !! Check with Mordy !

[Golden_barcelona]

sorry if I did not make myself clear.....:-)

Klaus gets food at home, twice a day. In the morning his dry food (Brekkies) and in early evening his "cooked food". I cook him for the whole week (than freeze) chicken breast, rice, carrots and other seasonal vegatables and a few potatoes plus fruits, like apple and I finish it off with Huettenkaese which is like a quark.

With my two other golden retrievers it was easy. They knew exactly that I did not want them to eat food from the streets and they they would leave it! Golden is a highly intelligent dog. They know what is allowed and what not. Klaus I have now three months and the lack of obedience I inherated from the previous owners - in the three months he has improved tremendously but the "food on the street" thing I have not under control yet.

Klaus is really the sweetest dog. He is not at all agressive ONLY when he finds bread and I try to take it away from him. Bread seems to be his obsession - I know that white bread is not good for dogs.....

Hope I explained it a bit better....

ps: I have put a pic of him in the profile:-)

[Fran27]

I didn't know white bread was not good for dogs. Never heard of it.

Are you sure you are feeding them a balanced diet? Maybe he's just lacking something he's trying to find in the bread.

[casablanca1]

If the problem's just with bread he finds on the street, maybe you could set him up to find really unpleasant pieces of bread - doctored with pepper or something he hates. Then, when he's gotten a little more cautious about sidewalk treats, you could work on having him leave even the good pieces alone.

[Golden_barcelona]

well Fran, that is what vets always told me..... (white bread digests longer) but hey,I am no doctor:-) and about his diet: I really think so yes, he gets with that mixture everything he needs.

Casablanca1: I like your idea a lot - will definately try that! Thx

[sparks19]

well white bread isn't overly good for humans let alone dogs. Whole wheat is the way to go haha.

I have to agree with casablanca's Idea that is a very good plan and definately would not hurt to try it out. :D

[Doberluv]

If it were me, I'd practice "leave it" at home in your yard or house. Put some objects of interest around and walk near them and when he starts to go to them, keep walking with him on his leash and tell him "leave it." When he stops showing interest and comes along, reward him lavishly with a very good treat. Practice "leave it" a lot more, always making his reward for compliance much better than what he is leaving alone. You can advance to food things and even bread after he gets very reliable with the other things first.

I would also impliment the Nothing In Life is Free program. Do a search. He needs to know that you are to be respected whether you're taking bread away from him or not. There are games too, that you can practice which will condition him to "give" you anything from his mouth that you ask for; Retrieving, give, take, give, take...trade things for a better treat. He needs to learn that he does not decide what things HE gets to keep and what things he will relinquish to you.

I wouldn't worry about a little bread hurting him. I'm more concerned with his non-compliance with what you are asking and his idea that he is going to take charge of the situation with the bread.

[Manchesters]

I didn't know white bread was not good for dogs. Never heard of it.

Are you sure you are feeding them a balanced diet? Maybe he's just lacking something he's trying to find in the bread.

It is the cheap garbage bread made from flour and water that parents buy to make sandwiches for their kids. It has no nutritional value for the most part. Enriched bread is the alternative to "white" bread.

[Manchesters]

sorry if I did not make myself clear.....:-)

Klaus gets food at home, twice a day. In the morning his dry food (Brekkies) and in early evening his "cooked food". I cook him for the whole week (than freeze) chicken breast, rice, carrots and other seasonal vegatables and a few potatoes plus fruits, like apple and I finish it off with Huettenkaese which is like a quark.

With my two other golden retrievers it was easy. They knew exactly that I did not want them to eat food from the streets and they they would leave it! Golden is a highly intelligent dog. They know what is allowed and what not. Klaus I have now three months and the lack of obedience I inherated from the previous owners - in the three months he has improved tremendously but the "food on the street" thing I have not under control yet.

Klaus is really the sweetest dog. He is not at all agressive ONLY when he finds bread and I try to take it away from him. Bread seems to be his obsession - I know that white bread is not good for dogs.....

Hope I explained it a bit better....

ps: I have put a pic of him in the profile:-)

He is a world famous trainer and behaviorist. I think he lives maybe in MarBella Spain. He also has a website......http://www.thedogman.net/ If you contact him tell him his friend Carole with the Manchesters referred you to him. He will give you top priority, perhaps, lol.

One thing that works is to go out and put some bread where he usually would find it, and walk him out and be ready to use whatever type of correction you prefer to make him ignore it. That way you are prepared ahead of time.

Buenos Suerte!!

[Manchesters]

well white bread isn't overly good for humans let alone dogs. Whole wheat is the way to go haha.

I have to agree with casablanca's Idea that is a very good plan and definately would not hurt to try it out. :D

The very best is a nice loaf of enriched potato bread!!!!!! Now I have a sister who insists that sourdough bread is the best thing on earth. Not for me! Saw a John Ratzenberg show, and they still have the original mother dough from back in like 1880!!!! It is what they call "the starter".

My mom bought a sour dough kit while visiting in California once upon a time. I got home from school one day and she yelled at me not to slam the door, and to tiptoe around. She had a pot of sourdough rising on one of the radiators. Well, doogies, I went up to my room. When I came back down, there were TWO pots on the radiator. The stuff just kept rising and rising and rising and rising and rising. I think she finally ended up with 5 pots of dough!!!!!!!!!!!!

We had sour dough bread, sour dough muffins, sour dough pancakes. Dad even took some of the loaves of bread, and muffins to work with him for his staff.

One morning at breakfast over a meal of sour dough flapjacks, dad says..You know, this reminds me of that joke I heard. "A guy's wife made him go to a psychologist. He talked with the doctor for a long while, and the doc said....you seem fine to me, why are you here? The guy says, my wife thinks I am crazy because I love flapjacks. The doctor says "well, there is nothing wrong with that, I love them too." Patient says, "great doc, come over for dinner tonight. I have 5 trunksful of flapjacks in the basement'"!!

Mom glared at dad and all she said was "all right, Charles!!!!!!!!!!!!"

[Golden_barcelona]

Cheers for your help! Marbella is unfortunately a bit far from Barcelona but I will contact David - first I will try the tips I received here and if that doesnīt work may be try the dog psycologist. I agree with you that the fact he does not respect me when it comes to dropping the food is a nasty habit which needs to be "solved". The poor dog obviously had a traumatic experience..... been with a family for a year and a half and than suddenly because a little baby comes, they give him away! The original owners came last week......Klaus hardly looked at them and when they left my house, he didnīt even get up to "say" goodbye so I guess heīs happy with me:-)

[Manchesters]

Cheers for your help! Marbella is unfortunately a bit far from Barcelona but I will contact David - first I will try the tips I received here and if that doesnīt work may be try the dog psycologist. I agree with you that the fact he does not respect me when it comes to dropping the food is a nasty habit which needs to be "solved". The poor dog obviously had a traumatic experience..... been with a family for a year and a half and than suddenly because a little baby comes, they give him away! The original owners came last week......Klaus hardly looked at them and when they left my house, he didnīt even get up to "say" goodbye so I guess heīs happy with me:-)

Check out his home page http://www.thedogman.net/index.htm You can also email him. As I said, be sure to mention that his buddy Carole from Florida with the Manchesters guaranteed that he can help, rofl.

He was a K-9 trainer for the Israeli army, for various police departments as well as working privately and in groups with dog owners. He is a good guy, and I am glad to see he is still alive. He has killer allergies!

You have a super great day, I am glad that Klaus recognizes how much better off he is!!!!!

[Doberluv]

In case you didn't find this, here's a good description of how to gain control humanely and how to show your dog that ONLY you make the rules. He will learn to look up to you more so when you do go to take something from him, he'll give it up easily. This along with specific games to teach him are helpful. http://k9deb.com/nilif.htm

When I get a new puppy, I condition him to giving me things. I give him a very cool toy and then I have some treats in my pocket. I tell him, "give." And I take the toy and give him a treat. Then I give the toy right back and let him chew on it for a minute. Then repeat. Then I toss it a few feet away like a fun game of retrieve and try to get him to bring it back to me. "Give." He gives it to me. "Take" I put it back in his mouth. Back and forth....lots of happy sounds and praise....a fun game. It shows him that you're not a threat to his stuff and that you are to be trusted around his things.

These exercises...or games, along with regular obedience practice using positive methods and NILIF (if you're already having a little aggression problem or resistance from him) are all things that will change the situation for the better. He needs to come to trust you more that you are a good leader who has everything taken care of, he doesn't need to do it... and then he'll respect you more and be much easier to train and work with. Good luck.

[Golden_barcelona]

I contacted David yesterday! Already received a reply.Wow, that was fast. mmmhhh, not exactly what I suspected though..... David says dogs should ONLY get dry food. Nothing else. The thing is when I got Klaus he was only on Brekkies (dry food) and was hardly eating. He usually did not eat anything in the mornings and only a bit in the evenings. I tried it one month and noticed his search for foods outside of the house became more frequent. When I changed his diet it became a bit better but of course not perfect. Donīt get me wrong Manchasters but my heart just canīt put him back to only dry foods...... the poor guy is soooo hungry than. He is much happier since the diet change. I will aplly the K9 training thing (thx Doberluv!) and see if he improves.

I am afraid now if I change back to dry he will again not eat and become more frantic when we go for our walks.

Greetings from Barcelona!

Arie

[Manchesters]

I contacted David yesterday! Already received a reply.Wow, that was fast. mmmhhh, not exactly what I suspected though..... David says dogs should ONLY get dry food. Nothing else. The thing is when I got Klaus he was only on Brekkies (dry food) and was hardly eating. He usually did not eat anything in the mornings and only a bit in the evenings. I tried it one month and noticed his search for foods outside of the house became more frequent. When I changed his diet it became a bit better but of course not perfect. Donīt get me wrong Manchasters but my heart just canīt put him back to only dry foods...... the poor guy is soooo hungry than. He is much happier since the diet change. I will aplly the K9 training thing (thx Doberluv!) and see if he improves.

I am afraid now if I change back to dry he will again not eat and become more frantic when we go for our walks.

Greetings from Barcelona!

Arie

I don't know why he would feel that way! I do not agree with that either.....although my dogs only eat dry dog food, lol. I would suggest just overlooking the food issue, and just let him think you agree, and move on to how to condition the dog to not eating bread, rofl. Just a little bit of a fib! He and I frequently disagreed on issues mainly because I viewed dogs from the point of a breeder raising pups, and he viewed as a trainer dealing only with adult dogs.

Sooooo, just ask him "ok, dry food........what happens next."

Now, dry good should be 95% of a dog's diet, unless you happen to be into one of those weird fad dog diets.

I am actually asleep, so if I sound like I am rambling.........I am, rofl.

[Manchesters]

I don't know why he would feel that way! I do not agree with that either.....although my dogs only eat dry dog food, lol. I would suggest just overlooking the food issue, and just let him think you agree, and move on to how to condition the dog to not eating bread, rofl. Just a little bit of a fib! He and I frequently disagreed on issues mainly because I viewed dogs from the point of a breeder raising pups, and he viewed as a trainer dealing only with adult dogs.

Sooooo, just ask him "ok, dry food........what happens next."

Now, dry good should be 95% of a dog's diet, unless you happen to be into one of those weird fad dog diets.

I am actually asleep, so if I sound like I am rambling.........I am, rofl.

Just reread your first post that you make the dog's food. What do you put into it? It could be that what you are feeding is not nutritionally complete for the dog. And how much does he eat? Is it enough, or could he be really hungry? What is his weight like?

Just dying of curiosity, roflol.

Back to sleep! :o

[Golden_barcelona]

so will we soon -lol- (time diff.)

mmhh I make him the following:

I boil: chickenbreasts, (fresh) carrots, rice, potatoes (not too much) other seasonal veggies (once on offer) fruit like, appels, grapes etc and a bit of lean quark.

I know, everyone says I am crazy:-) but hey, this is all fresh stuff and it takes me an hour and a half every week PLUS it is actually cheaper than the good brands of dogfood - so what the heck? Klaus loves it!

Oh and re David. I donīt want to bother the poor guy toomuch, I am sure he has better things to do and he send me a real long mail re dog nutricion (any one interested in it, ask me and I will post it here) I want to try Doberluvīs K9 idea - the one with the attention, I think that could work - starting with Klaus tomorrow!

[Adrienne]

NO GRAPES! Can cause renal faliure. They are poision to dogs as are rasins. Check the stickied thread in the dog food forum to find out more. They are on the list for poision control as poision. Please don't feed more!

[Adrienne]

Here's the link...
http://www.chazhound.com/forums/showthread.php?t=591

[Golden_barcelona]

okay! he had them only once BUT NEVER again! promise:-) Thx 4 the tip.

[Julie]

I feel like I have been asking too many questions lately,
Like:
Whats that?
Whats it mean?
Why?
etc.
So, here it goes again, feeling foolish, I probably should know, but I don't.
What is lean quark?

Thanks, Julie.

[Saje]

It sounds like he's not getting enough calcium. When dogs eat a natural diet they usually get their calcium from bones or some people feed cottage cheese or yogurt. What do you feed for calcium?

[Golden_barcelona]

you asked Julie.......:-)

A.k.a. baker's cheese. A kind of unripened, soft cheese that resembles a very thick sour cream or cream cheese. It can be used instead of butter in pie crusts and pastry doughs, as a filling in sweet or savoury cakes and pies and in various desserts like cheesecakes, mousses, puddings etc.

Quark is much used in cooking in Finland, Germany and Russia. It is called творог (tvorog) in Russian. It is a main ingredient in many Russian traditional dishes, like syrniki, paskha etc.

Note: the Finnish and Russian quarks differ from each other a great deal. The Russian quark is much firmer in consistency and contains about 15 % milk fat. This is the "genuine" type of quark. The Finnish quark, on the other hand, is smoother and contains too much liquid to be used in original Russian dishes without letting it drain first. It contains between 0,4 and 7 % milk fat. The Finnish-type quark is mainly used in the recipes of this site. It can be replaced with Russian-type quark, but you may have to dilute it with a dash of milk or cream to make it softer.

Quark can be replaced with homemade smooth-textured ricotta-type cheese, made by curdling whole milk with buttermilk.

[Manchesters]

you asked Julie.......:-)

A.k.a. baker's cheese. A kind of unripened, soft cheese that resembles a very thick sour cream or cream cheese. It can be used instead of butter in pie crusts and pastry doughs, as a filling in sweet or savoury cakes and pies and in various desserts like cheesecakes, mousses, puddings etc.

Quark is much used in cooking in Finland, Germany and Russia. It is called творог (tvorog) in Russian. It is a main ingredient in many Russian traditional dishes, like syrniki, paskha etc.

Note: the Finnish and Russian quarks differ from each other a great deal. The Russian quark is much firmer in consistency and contains about 15 % milk fat. This is the "genuine" type of quark. The Finnish quark, on the other hand, is smoother and contains too much liquid to be used in original Russian dishes without letting it drain first. It contains between 0,4 and 7 % milk fat. The Finnish-type quark is mainly used in the recipes of this site. It can be replaced with Russian-type quark, but you may have to dilute it with a dash of milk or cream to make it softer.

Quark can be replaced with homemade smooth-textured ricotta-type cheese, made by curdling whole milk with buttermilk.

I will get a plane ticket and be over for dinner ASAP, rofl.

Is Quark anything like Feta cheese or Riccoto??

Now......one very important thing......do you have the foggiest idea how much protein, fat, vitamins or minerals he is getting? The dog would be healthiest if you feed him dry food, and mixed in your cooked food. That would give him a complete, balanced diet.

It is very important to have the absolute proper ratio of calcium to phosphorous, and you need vitamin D to absorb the calcium. Many times the super best dog owners will do as you do, but they do not realize that their dog very well could be nutrionally starving.

Give serious consideration to the combination of dry and your goodies mixed in. You might could put your good stuff into a blender and puree it, and then mix it with the dry food.

Ya think, huh?????

[Manchesters]

so will we soon -lol- (time diff.)

mmhh I make him the following:

I boil: chickenbreasts, (fresh) carrots, rice, potatoes (not too much) other seasonal veggies (once on offer) fruit like, appels, grapes etc and a bit of lean quark.

I know, everyone says I am crazy:-) but hey, this is all fresh stuff and it takes me an hour and a half every week PLUS it is actually cheaper than the good brands of dogfood - so what the heck? Klaus loves it!

Oh and re David. I donīt want to bother the poor guy toomuch, I am sure he has better things to do and he send me a real long mail re dog nutricion (any one interested in it, ask me and I will post it here) I want to try Doberluvīs K9 idea - the one with the attention, I think that could work - starting with Klaus tomorrow!

You have NO vitamins or minerals, no calcium/phosphorous. Rice and potatoes are not very nutritious (I don't think...there is something niggling in the back of my brain about them, rofl)

You definitely need to find out from someone who knows about nutrition. Where is Mordana when you could really use some info, lol.

YES......POST DAVID'S EMAIL if you will!!

[Golden_barcelona]

mmmhhh.... are u sure?????

Chicken – low fat, high protein
Rice – fiber
Potatoes – carbohydrates + vitamines
Fruit - vitamines
Yoghurt/Quark - calcium
Carrots are the richest source of beta-carotene. This is of great benefit in the fight against cancer. Studies show that eating carrots reduces the incidence of cancer and may even reverse symptoms. Carrots are also beneficial for the heart, circulation, eye sight, skin and lungs

Klaus gets dry food in the morning.... I did mention that before:-)

[Saje]

I think that rice and potatoes have vitamins. Potates are really high in vitamin C. Especially the skins. Brown rice has lots of B vitamins. I think a fresh diet can be a lot better for a dog then a dry, kibble diet. We've only been feeding kibble for, what? 70 years? Less? I've said it before but it's amazing how quickly we get used to things. Like toilet paper.

[Mordy]

Where is Mordana when you could really use some info, lol.

she's around, but she doesn't have the time to read every single thread on this forum. :D

my private message inbox or email are always available tho, and i try to answer as quickly as i can. :)

now on to the nutrition stuff:

rice and potatoes are both good ingredients for a home prepared diet. i tend to recommend potatoes (white & sweet) or yams over grains tho, simply because most dogs do better on them than on grains. that doesn't mean that (especially brown) rice, oatmeal etc. aren't good either.

it doesn't take a rocket scientist to feed a dog a home prepared diet, but there are a few things people must be aware of, such as a proper calcium/phosphorus ratio and other nutrient requirements. there are excellent calculation tools for this, such as for example www.nutritiondata.com and nutrient requirement tables (http://www.mordanna.com/dogfood/index.php?page=calc).

grapes shouldn't be fed to dogs ever, and that includes raisins as well.
www.aspca.org/site/DocServer/grapes.pdf?docID=189

when done right, a home prepared diet is far superior to any commercial food, and it's not as expensive or time consuming as people think, either. the daily feeding cost for my own dog (30 pounds) is about 30-40 cents (US$).

i'll be happy to answer questions, but as i stated above, my time is limited and when i do come to chazhound, my first focus are the "Dog Food and Recipes" forum and my PM inbox.

[Golden_barcelona]

Here Davids advice:

Keep your dog only on dried food, this is balanced and has all the value your dogs needs. Your dogs behaviour will be more settled, and so will the stools.
Never try to take food away from a dog their is no benefit in challenging a dog.
Keep in mind that your dog can also have reactions from wrong food, like licking, destructive, aggression, digging etc.
Here I send you information on allergies.
Food allergies can affect your dog anytime. Watch for warning signs and promptly treat allergies to prevent significant discomfort in your dog.

Are any breeds more prone to food allergies?
No. Any dog, regardless of breed, gender, activity level or size can develop an allergy to his food.

Are there any foods that may be more likely to cause allergies in my dog?
Common allergy-causing culprits include:

Beef
Dairy products
Chicken and chicken eggs
Wheat
Corn
Soy

These ingredients tend to be found in most dog foods. Dogs have the most contact with these foods, so many cases of allergic reactions are associated with them.

Some dog food manufacturers have started marketing lamb and rice food as a means of staving off allergic reactions. However, research has shown dogs have the potential to become allergic to any food they regularly eat.

How can I spot an allergic reaction to food in my dog?
Some common allergy symptoms are:
Itchy skin
Hair loss
Excessive scratching
Ear problems and infections

To determine whether an allergy is food-based or not, watch for possible symptoms. If his condition doesn't improve within a few days, contact your vet.


How is a dog diagnosed and treated for food allergies?
To determine food allergies, your vet may suggest switching your dog's food to a completely new food source of protein and carbohydrates for 12 weeks.
Research has shown it generally takes 12 full weeks for dogs to respond to dietary changes. Ask your vet for recommendations on different brands of food you should try.

Once you and your vet are certain your dog has a food allergy, you have two options for your dog's dietary needs and eliminate allergens:


Store-bought food: Ask your vet to recommend a special store-bought dog food that incorporates the ingredients from the successful food trial, which eliminates your dog's allergy causes.


Homemade diet: Prepare a homemade diet for your dog based on your vet's recommendations.

Before you alter your dog's diet, make sure he has a food allergy. I recommend this is only done on a vets advice.

If he suffers from outdoor allergies or another illness, nutritional changes may do more harm than good. Consult your vet for proper diagnosis.
Top 10 Dos and Don'ts for Your Dog's Diet

Nutrition is an essential building block for maintaining a happy, healthy dog.
Educate yourself on which foods are best for your dog and which ones are best avoided. Follow some guidelines for feeding your dog properly.

Help clean plaque from teeth by providing dry foods. Dry food is preferable to moist and semi-moist foods because it helps clean plaque from the teeth, reducing the amount of dental problems. If you must feed moist foods, be vigilant about brushing your dog's teeth and give him plaque-reducing biscuits.


Look for a high-quality dog food from a known manufacturer. This product should be nutritionally balanced and appropriate for your dog's life stage. I recommend you take your vets advice.

Read labels carefully! Stick to one brand of food whenever possible. Switching foods often can lead to stomach upset and finicky dogs may not eat new brands.

Feed your dog the recommended amount for his age and size. Be aware of any changes in your dog's life that may require an increase or decrease in food, such as pregnancy, illness or increased exercise.

Implement a feeding schedule for your dog. Try to feed your dog at least two times daily. A regular routine is important for your dog.

Watch your dog carefully for any weight gain or loss. Significant changes require a veterinary exam. Slow changes may indicate the need for a change in portion sizes or more exercise.

Check the food supply often for freshness. Try to keep it in a sealed container to keep out pests and rodents.

Don't give treats too freely. Treats should be used only as an occasional reward, not as a substitute for a good diet.

Don't feed your dog table scraps. Foods meant for human consumption aren't nutritionally balanced for your dog. It's best to stick to dog foods and treats.

Don't feed your dog raw meat, chocolate, alcohol or bones that splinter easily.
These foods are potentially very dangerous to your dog. Even a small dose of chocolate or alcohol can be fatal.

Regards
David

[Julie]

you asked Julie.......:-)

A.k.a. baker's cheese. A kind of unripened, soft cheese that resembles a very thick sour cream or cream cheese. It can be used instead of butter in pie crusts and pastry doughs, as a filling in sweet or savoury cakes and pies and in various desserts like cheesecakes, mousses, puddings etc.

Quark is much used in cooking in Finland, Germany and Russia. It is called творог (tvorog) in Russian. It is a main ingredient in many Russian traditional dishes, like syrniki, paskha etc.

Note: the Finnish and Russian quarks differ from each other a great deal. The Russian quark is much firmer in consistency and contains about 15 % milk fat. This is the "genuine" type of quark. The Finnish quark, on the other hand, is smoother and contains too much liquid to be used in original Russian dishes without letting it drain first. It contains between 0,4 and 7 % milk fat. The Finnish-type quark is mainly used in the recipes of this site. It can be replaced with Russian-type quark, but you may have to dilute it with a dash of milk or cream to make it softer.

Quark can be replaced with homemade smooth-textured ricotta-type cheese, made by curdling whole milk with buttermilk.

Thanks for the info. sounds delicious, never met a cheese I didn't like! :D
Julie.

[Doberluv]

Well, I don't know about Mordy, (she's the real nutrition expert here) but I disagree with some of what David says. To make a statement that dry food is better is ridiculous IMO. It depends on what's in it. Another thing...all human food is NOT bad for a dog. Table scraps? What table scraps. It depends. Dogs and wolves don't have dry, commercial food....never did. It hasn't been around very long at all. They're designed to eat raw meat, rip and tear and crush bones. Dry dog food, IMO is not necessarily better. In fact, in many cases it's much worse than human food. But it all depends on what we're talking about for food.

A lot of the stuff people feed dogs has nothing to do with a canine specific diet. Dogs and wolves in the wild (and our dogs are no different digestively) eat raw meat. MEAT, MEAT, MEAT. Maybe they eat a little grass or a berry or two if they happen on one. They are scavengers and their behavior is like an omnivore, will eat other stuff but they're built as a carnivore. They eat meat and bones. Inside the rabbit is digested vegetable matter. Digested. They can't utilize big chunks of vegetables, although, I expect they may get a little vitamins out of them. They need to be pureed. But the don't find a bunch of vegatables like broccoli and carrots out there in the wild I don't think.

If one is going to feed commercial dog food (which has only been around for about 60 years, I think, then it ought to be a premium one which has been supplimented with vit/min and uses human grade, real meat and plenty of it. As it is, it's cooked which takes out some of the vitamins. It's processed. There are sometimes harmful preservatives, old rancid oils and other junk in regular grocery store food. There are bi-products and lots of grain. Dogs don't eat grain, other than what's in the animal that they eat. A little rice is fine. But some of these foods go overboard.

Anyhow, I urge you to do more research before making homemade meals so you don't leave anything of importance out and that you're not feeding something which could be harmful. You might be interested in the raw food diets. Apparently, raw meat retains much, much more of the nutrients and the bones are essential. But research it first. There are a few risks in feeding raw. Mordy can help you probably if you p.m. her. Or do a search on this forum for raw food diets and see what you come up with. I know it's there somewhere.

[Manchesters]

Well, I don't know about Mordy, (she's the real nutrition expert here) but I disagree with some of what David says. To make a statement that dry food is better is ridiculous IMO. It depends on what's in it. Another thing...all human food is NOT bad for a dog. Table scraps? What table scraps. It depends. Dogs and wolves don't have dry, commercial food....never did. It hasn't been around very long at all. They're designed to eat raw meat, rip and tear and crush bones. Dry dog food, IMO is not necessarily better. In fact, in many cases it's much worse than human food. But it all depends on what we're talking about for food.

A lot of the stuff people feed dogs has nothing to do with a canine specific diet. Dogs and wolves in the wild (and our dogs are no different digestively) eat raw meat. MEAT, MEAT, MEAT. Maybe they eat a little grass or a berry or two if they happen on one. They are scavengers and their behavior is like an omnivore, will eat other stuff but they're built as a carnivore. They eat meat and bones. Inside the rabbit is digested vegetable matter. Digested. They can't utilize big chunks of vegetables, although, I expect they may get a little vitamins out of them. They need to be pureed. But the don't find a bunch of vegatables like broccoli and carrots out there in the wild I don't think.

If one is going to feed commercial dog food (which has only been around for about 60 years, I think, then it ought to be a premium one which has been supplimented with vit/min and uses human grade, real meat and plenty of it. As it is, it's cooked which takes out some of the vitamins. It's processed. There are sometimes harmful preservatives, old rancid oils and other junk in regular grocery store food. There are bi-products and lots of grain. Dogs don't eat grain, other than what's in the animal that they eat. A little rice is fine. But some of these foods go overboard.

Anyhow, I urge you to do more research before making homemade meals so you don't leave anything of importance out and that you're not feeding something which could be harmful. You might be interested in the raw food diets. Apparently, raw meat retains much, much more of the nutrients and the bones are essential. But research it first. There are a few risks in feeding raw. Mordy can help you probably if you p.m. her. Or do a search on this forum for raw food diets and see what you come up with. I know it's there somewhere.

I am rather curious......has Mordy actually fed a multitude of dogs, and raised a number of litters and had the chance to see the effects of the foods recommended, or does she rely on the reports from various sources?

[Manchesters]

Well, I don't know about Mordy, (she's the real nutrition expert here) but I disagree with some of what David says. To make a statement that dry food is better is ridiculous IMO. It depends on what's in it. Another thing...all human food is NOT bad for a dog. Table scraps? What table scraps. It depends. Dogs and wolves don't have dry, commercial food....never did. It hasn't been around very long at all. They're designed to eat raw meat, rip and tear and crush bones. Dry dog food, IMO is not necessarily better. In fact, in many cases it's much worse than human food. But it all depends on what we're talking about for food.

A lot of the stuff people feed dogs has nothing to do with a canine specific diet. Dogs and wolves in the wild (and our dogs are no different digestively) eat raw meat. MEAT, MEAT, MEAT. Maybe they eat a little grass or a berry or two if they happen on one. They are scavengers and their behavior is like an omnivore, will eat other stuff but they're built as a carnivore. They eat meat and bones. Inside the rabbit is digested vegetable matter. Digested. They can't utilize big chunks of vegetables, although, I expect they may get a little vitamins out of them. They need to be pureed. But the don't find a bunch of vegatables like broccoli and carrots out there in the wild I don't think.

If one is going to feed commercial dog food (which has only been around for about 60 years, I think, then it ought to be a premium one which has been supplimented with vit/min and uses human grade, real meat and plenty of it. As it is, it's cooked which takes out some of the vitamins. It's processed. There are sometimes harmful preservatives, old rancid oils and other junk in regular grocery store food. There are bi-products and lots of grain. Dogs don't eat grain, other than what's in the animal that they eat. A little rice is fine. But some of these foods go overboard.

Anyhow, I urge you to do more research before making homemade meals so you don't leave anything of importance out and that you're not feeding something which could be harmful. You might be interested in the raw food diets. Apparently, raw meat retains much, much more of the nutrients and the bones are essential. But research it first. There are a few risks in feeding raw. Mordy can help you probably if you p.m. her. Or do a search on this forum for raw food diets and see what you come up with. I know it's there somewhere.

The first thing wolves and wild dogs eat is the STOMACH of the animals, which is loaded with vegetation. And the organs.....THEN they eat what is left over.....the meat and bones!

[Manchesters]

When you stop and think about just what dogs will eat if left to their own devices, there ain't nuttin in any dog food any worse, rofl. I mean splattered armadillos off the pavement, birds, feathers and all, any kind of smelly garbage they can rap their lips around. Yuck!

And the one thing that has suprised the Hades out of me over the many years I have been involved with dogs, is that those dogs feed the most garbage foods......like Hunter's Choice, or Field Trial.....are in fantastic condition and health!!!!!!!! Now explain that!!!!!! Ticks me off. You try to tell them to use ANYTHING but that, and they say, WHY??? And they are standing there with their 17 year old hound dog that doesn't look a day over 10, and is spry and healthy, roflmbo. Apparently dogs can get along on alot less than we have been brainwashed into thinking they need!!!!!

Really ticked me off!

[bridey_01]

I've heard science diet isn't the best, but at least a quarter of my clients use it and all their dogs have shiny coats, perfect teeth, bright eyes and are full of energy. One of these dogs is thirteen and the other is twelve, when I met them I geussed they were five!

[Mordy]

Keep your dog only on dried food, this is balanced and has all the value your dogs needs.

an old myth that stems from advertisements of the pet food companies who want you to buy their products.

just like humans, different dogs have different needs and there is no "one size fits all". you can easily comprehend that by for example looking at the differing requirements of fat in the diet: some dogs will need more and have a dry, dull coat if not enough is present, others just gain weight or suffer pancreatitis attacks.

if it really was the case that all dog foods are "complete and balanced", there wouldn't be over 700 different varieties out there, and existing foods wouldn't be redesigned and marketed as "new and improved" every so often.

[qupte]Your dogs behaviour will be more settled, and so will the stools.[/quote]

dry foods have absolutely nothing to do with how "settled" a dog is. the formulation of the food is much more important. some dogs have trouble with too many grains in general, others with foods that cause sharp spikes and drops in blood sugar levels (think "sugar high").

good, consistent stools follow from a diet that is suitable for the dog, but many foods (especially those of poor quality) contain stool conditioners that will produce an artififially compact, firm stool. if they didn't contain these conditioning ingredients, you'd find droppings that would (sorry for the visual) resemble cow patties rather than a dog turd. of course this doesn't sit well with people who have large kennels to keep clean, so the food has to be adjusted for the practical purpose, which doesn't really do anything in the way of nutrition tho.

Help clean plaque from teeth by providing dry foods. Dry food is preferable to moist and semi-moist foods because it helps clean plaque from the teeth, reducing the amount of dental problems. If you must feed moist foods, be vigilant about brushing your dog's teeth and give him plaque-reducing biscuits.

yet another myth that is widely propagated.

dogs are gulpers, not chewers by nature. their teeth are made for ripping, tearing and crushing.

there is absolutely no scientific proof that dry food is better to keep a dog's teeth clean, but wet food with its natural moisture content is closer to a natural diet and the dog can eat it the way a canine is meant to eat its food. wet food also generally contains less grains and fillers and more meat than dry food. choosing good quality is critical tho.

the best resource to read up on this topic and get some actual, scientific reasearch is reading dr. tom lonsdale's book "raw meaty bones" (ISBN number 0646396242). dr. lonsdale has treated many dogs and cats for periodontal disease.

Read labels carefully! Stick to one brand of food whenever possible. Switching foods often can lead to stomach upset and finicky dogs may not eat new brands.

yet another myth, put forward by pet food companies who don't want you to possibly switch to a competitor's product. there is absolutely nothing wrong with rotating between a few brands of good quality food now and then, unless your dog has severe digestive upsets every time you change something in the diet. dogs are carnivorous scavengers by nature, designed to survive on whatever food they can find.

Don't feed your dog table scraps. Foods meant for human consumption aren't nutritionally balanced for your dog. It's best to stick to dog foods and treats.

more pet food industry propaganda. there is nothing wrong with feeding table scraps/people food that is appropriate for the dog. obviously you wouldn't want to feed junk food, chocolate, candy, etc., but giving the dog leftover meats, vegetables and other healthy items certainly isn't an issue.

Don't feed your dog raw meat

and that's just plain ridiculous. :)

has Mordy actually fed a multitude of dogs, and raised a number of litters and had the chance to see the effects of the foods recommended, or does she rely on the reports from various sources?

no, mordy has not raised any litters, but she has fed dogs for 25 years and consulted other people on their dog's diets with great success, eliminating various health issues long term. she also has a good understanding of the pet food industry and how it has changed over the past two or three decades.

as hard as it may be to grasp the concept, it doesn't take breeding dogs and raising litters to get an understanding about nutrition and see the results of (sometimes relatively minimal) changes.

The first thing wolves and wild dogs eat is the STOMACH of the animals, which is loaded with vegetation. And the organs.....THEN they eat what is left over.....the meat and bones!

the first thing wolves tend to go for when eating are organs like liver, heart, spleen, kidney etc. - not the contents of the stomach or intestines. those parts. yeah, they'll ingest some of the predigested plant matter, but they certainly don't have a preference for it and with the larger prey animals generally shake the contents out of stomach/intestines before eating them.

that aside, first picks of choice parts go to the highest ranking pack member, with the lower ranks left to picking through leftovers.

muscle meat offers good nutrition and is consumed in great quantity, and wolves also generally eat all the smaller, edible bones, or at least crack them open to get to the marrow. bone marrow is high in fat - which is hard to come by in the wild and highly prized.

i'm not going to get into this in more detail, whoever is interestred can refer to the book "Wolves: Behavior, Ecology, and Conservation" and other literature, especially Dr. David Mech is well worth reading.

When you stop and think about just what dogs will eat if left to their own devices, there ain't nuttin in any dog food any worse, rofl. I mean splattered armadillos off the pavement, birds, feathers and all, any kind of smelly garbage they can rap their lips around.

certainly, but in what proportions, and in what kind of condition would they end up if that was all they were eating?

this argument comes up quite frequently, but how many people seriously believe their dog could do well long term on a diet that consisted of nothing but garbage and "litter-breaded" cat turds?

those dogs feed the most garbage foods......like Hunter's Choice, or Field Trial.....are in fantastic condition and health!!!!!!!! Now explain that!!!!!!

do you know for sure that those dogs didn't eat anything else at all, period? i've seem many dogs in pretty good condition eating crappy foods, but in all cases the owners were giving other stuff too, either table scraps and other people food, or the occasional egg and marrow bones, meat scraps, or, in the case of show/performance people, all kinds of supplements (e.g. "inflight", linatone and all that stuff ) that could have been left out if they fed a decent quality food to begin with.

also, many brands that are considered "poor quality" these days used to be pretty good products 10, 15 or 20 years ago, before the "big players" in the food industry started buying them up, such as nestle, del monte, mars and so on. before that happened, they had an interest in making good foods to stay in business. these days, large corporate conglomerates like nestle have a wide array of byproducts from human food processing left over that they can use to make pet foods that yield a huge profit margin. how else do you think companies like iams/eukanuba, pedigree, purina and others can sponsor so many events and run million-dollar ad campaigns? the smaller companies prefer to forego that and put their money into research and quality ingredients. the result is a market share that is mostly based on word of mouth instead of expensive advertisement, and a profit margin the manufacturer can still live with.

last but not least, of course genetics play a huge role too. it's the "my grandma drank, smoked and ate fried foods all her life but lived to be 102" kind of thing. if you have a genetic disaster of a dog, not even the best food is going to make a difference.