Dominance Issues

[Azucenda]

I have a 12-week-old Boxer/English Bulldog mix, and I was wondering if anyone could help me. Tusker's the first puppy I've had around since about 12 years ago, so when every now and then he would chew at someone's hand, my boyfriend and I thought at first it was just him being a puppy. Of course, we discouraged him and gave him something better to chew on. I've made sure that he has been around new people and other animals, and he is wonderful around children.

The last time we went to the vet, the assistant held him for his shots...he was fine. After everything was done, she went to touch his head, and he just nipped at her. That's the way it is with him. He'll be super sweet, and then suddenly it's like something snaps and he'll nip at anything that gets near him. It's like a game to him... it doesn't seem aggressive, but it's certainly not something I want to continue.

I took him to a trainer three weeks ago, and she gave him an assessment. She told me that he had dominance issues, and that I needed to lay him on his back every day and every time that he got like that. I should hold him there until he gives in, then we do something fun. Well, I have done this like she showed me, but he still has his moments. He doesn't do this with my boyfriend or really anyone else, but if I have to get him out from under the bed or something like that, he will bite whatever hand I have on him.

I'm going to start taking him to obedience classes soon, because I want to be able to trust him around people and trust that if I touch him he's not going to take my hand off. Please don't think he's all bad... he really does have a sweet disposition and loves to give kisses, but does anyone have any suggestion on how to stop this unwanted behavior? Any suggestion would be greatly appreciated!!

[bridey_01]

First of all, you do not have a dominance issue. Dominance is a widely used term used by misguided trainers to describe nearly any issue. The advice she has given you is ridiculous (and potentially harmful). Rolling your pup on his belly is very confrontational to the pup, and does nothing to demonstrate your "dominance".
Your pup is merely being a puppy. Puppies are very nippy and you have been doing the right thing by giving him something better to bite on. You may aslo squeel dreadfully when he bites you and ignore him for a good twenty seconds. It's easiest to do this when you are playing with him. Make the rule, biting equals no more fun, and enforce it. Remember, don't hit or yell at him when he bites you. Work on basic obedience manouveres and keep them short and fun.

[Renee750il]

And DITCH THAT TRAINER! Quickly!

[Azucenda]

I thought that his nipping was just being a puppy also. I grew up with Labs, and they just grew out of chewing and nibbling. We also had a pitbull, though he never was 'mouthy'. Since my boyfriend works two jobs, I'm often alone when I take Tusker out for walks or to visit people. I am just paranoid that we'll dismiss his actions as being a puppy and then suddenly he's huge and decides to haul off and bite me or someone else. Thanks for agreeing with my thoughts that it was just him being young. I'll definitely just continue to dissuade him from nipping the way we have been.

[stirder]

my vet suggested the same thing with Rory, our 13 week old australian cattle dog, she said she grew up around them because her parents breed them. said the only way to establish dominance is to roll the over on their back. I just laughed out loud. she explained that she was serious, and I explained that my laughter was serious too. that is rediculous. yes it will work, but not nearly as effectively as saying no, and giving them something else to chew. you can also (if they are biting a finger) press down on the tongue. the puppy gets a minor gag reflex and after a while associates chewing hands with discomfort. but replacing with something else to chew is the best.

[bridey_01]

Don't forget squeeling, let them know they are hurting you. Its the first step on the road to bite inhibition.

[stirder]

yes, that is another really good one

[thewhitewitchone]

My puppy must be the exception to all of your rules. I've tried everything suggested (and then some) but she still bites us and does it hard when she is overly excited.
I may get some flack for this but...
I just tried it yesterday and it certainly had an affect. I sprayed her directly in the mouth with bitter apple when she bit me while telling her "No Bites!" (I don't mean I sprayed it down her throat). Now, when she is getting rough and mouthy, I say "No Bites!" and pick up the spray bottle and she stops and retreats a safe distance away from the bottle. If it stops her from biting...great! That's what I want.

Pam

[BigDog2191]

If it's nipping and he's a puppy, it's not dominance. It's him being a puppy.

There are several methods to put an end to this.

Same whitewitch, none of these worked for me... but I mean, it apparently works with everyone elses on Chazhound.

But now when he bites, I say NO and shut the door. Leaving him alone--not alone but away from me.

[Doberluv]

If it stops her from biting...great! That's what I want.

Do you want to risk having her bite you seriously when she's older and has bigger teeth? Then keep right on doing things to make her distrust and fear you. (and people wonder why they have aggression problems later on)

Do you want her to respect you and learn that biting brings her nothing good and have her decide herself to give up that habit? Then do what Bridey said and keep doing it. Do it consistantly and promptly.

You can also ask her for a sit whenever she is to receive anything good from you. Show her that you control her recourses. And that includes attention. Have her earn these things and reward when she complies. Check out some of the links on operant conditioning and learning behavior. Those links will help you.

[thewhitewitchone]

Why is she distrusting me and fearing me because I sprayed her with the bitter apple? It's the spray bottle she is afraid of, not me. And it isn't causing her pain and it isn't cruel.
As I have said...I have tried all of the methods suggested, over and over again. NOTHING works. This worked. So when she gets older she is going to bite me, you say? Explain why.
She is very stubborn and strong willed. I KNOW that she knows that biting is wrong but she still does it. Time outs work for a while but it is a very short while. If she associates biting me with that nasty taste, how is that going to make her grow up fearing me and wanting to bite me?
Do you think it's possible to answer this question in a way that is not going to put me on the defensive because you have a nifty way of doing that to people, Doberluv.
I am tired of you and others trying to make people look and feel ignorant. Imagine someone saying to you what you just said to me and think how you would take it.

Pam

[bridey_01]

Well, what Doberluv was trying to say is actually right. She most definetly will associate the bad taste and experience with you. Think of it like a bank. Everytime your dog has a good experience with you (treats, happy playing, well done commands) you are putting money in. Everytime you physically punish the dog (spraying icky stuff, slapping, jerking on the lead) you are taking money out. Positive methods DO work, just not overnight. Remember your dog is a puppy. Nipping is normal and accepted puppy behaviour that will eventually go away. I know it can be very frustrating, and sometimes less tasteful methods seem to work immediatly, which only makes you want to do them more! But in the end they come back to bite us in the butt (maybe literally!).
Some dogs can put up with alot of punishment and negativity and not bat an eyelid, but most dogs can't. Don't risk your pups future temperament and your relationship together.

[Fran27]

I'd like to say, positive training takes a long time to work. I think the problem is that you are expecting fast results, then yeah, it doesn't seem to work.

[YorkieLover]

This is our second go around with this biting/nipping out of a puppy. When Cocoa did it, we tried yelping (didn't work), we tried giving her a toy to bite, (didn't work), the only thing that worked for her was leaving the room and ignoring her. We did this over and over again until she associated biting equals no attention. I am doing the same thing with our new one (3 months old).. when he bites or nips I snap my fingers, tell him NO Bite and if he doesn't listen, I leave the room or put him down, (If I'm holding him)... He'll figure it out I'm sure.

[Doberluv]

I'd like to say, positive training takes a long time to work. I think the problem is that you are expecting fast results, then yeah, it doesn't seem to work.

Fran....I don't think positive methods take a long time at all. Really, I don't. My Doberman, probably my biggest handful of a dog for as long as I can remember (LOL) stopped nipping at me, jumping up on me, teething on me in just a few weeks. And all I did was ignore him or if he was reeeeeeeeelly being obnoxious, sometimes give him a few minutes to chill out in his crate....alone...seperate him from the group. I think some people don't know what the word ignore means and don't take it to the max. This is also what wolves do in a pack (just as an aside, since everyone is so obsessed with equating our relationship with wolf packs) They ostrasize and exclude pack members which are causing trouble. This is the ultimate punishment and it's calm, non-violent. It does work on dogs too. Heck, it would work on anybody.

His grabbing underwear or socks from the laundry basket occasionally, still hasn't stopped. And do you know why? Because he looks sooooo funny trotting down the hall with something like that streaming behind him in the wake of air current as he's moving through the house. I laugh and play with him because he's just too cotton pickin cute. But other than that, he's a very nice dog, albeit with a warped, sadistic sense of humor. ROFLOL!


I am tired of you and others trying to make people look and feel ignorant.
When somebody flat out says they're going to do something, in spite of good advice from a few dog trainers, a few other experienced dog owners who have had successs with a certain method and they flat out reject that advice which they themselves asked for, then they're going to do it their way, I guess. So, that being known....that they're going to go right ahead and spray chemicals or burning tasting substances, which no one probably knows what the potential medical consequences might be... at their dog's face and not follow proven methods or get it straight how exactly to implimetent these methods in a better way perhaps, then that is assumed now.....they're going to do it their way, inspite of the attempted help. So, therefore, the sentence was born: If you want to risk serious problems later, then keep doing what you're doing. You see...you're going to do that anyhow, right? So...that's a given. There is no other way. So, I accepted that. And I made the connection for you what could happen down the road. And I also gave you an alternative method. I never set out or intend to make someone feel ignorant. How that comes about, I don't honestly know.

Oh....ROFLOL! You're not even the original poster. This isn't about you. I just went back and read all that. The original poster IS going to continue what she began with her dog. I think she's going to be just fine.

[Doberluv]

Azuc.... Any suggestion would be greatly appreciated!!

I'm glad you're so open to receive ideas. Here's an idea if your dog starts getting toooooo rambunctious and pushy: You don't have to take it to the extreme, but you can do a few of these types of things along with obedience practice a little every day.
It's just a good way to reiterate to your dog that you are the one who controls the stuff he needs to survive. And he then looks up to you and respects you. He's more apt to listen to you and go with the program you want. Best wishes.
http://www.sspca.org/Dogs_TANSTAAFL.html

[stirder]

with some dogs positive methods do take longer, and negative methods can work very fast. think about it, some people are more stubborn than other people. I think it was you, doberluv, who used the analogy of boss/employee relationship? if everytime you take longer than scheduled to complete a task, or refuse to work at all, you boss smacks you on the nose or jerks you by the neck tie (male analogy there, sorry ladies, necklace for you) you are going to do the work, but you will not respect your boss, certainly wont like him or her. but if instead of hitting or jerking you, he refuses to reward you for your misbehaviour, you will start doing the work so you can get paid. and you will probably respect him/her and possibly even like him.
positive reinforcement CAN take longer with some dogs, but it is far and away more rewarding to your relationship with the dog.