Thanks for the great advice Manchesters

[yuckaduck]

I just want to take this opportunity to thank Manchesters for the great training advice. She really has helped alot with me advancing Yukon's training and moving forward with the commands and oedience work. Thanks so much.

Not to leave anyone out others have given advice to and I do appreciate it but it was Manchesters method that so far has had the most impact on Yukon. Thank you so much.

[Fran27]

I'm sure the most agressive methods are the ones that work best, I'm just not sure it's the best for you, the dog and your relationship. But to be honest, I just don't know.

[yuckaduck]

There was abolutely no aggression used, none at all. Why would you automatically assume that? Never have I ever been aggressive with Yukon and I don't appreciate such an outrageous accusation. At least I am thoughtful enough to give thanks when it is deserved rather than just continually attacking someone.

[showpug]

I'm sure the most agressive methods are the ones that work best, I'm just not sure it's the best for you, the dog and your relationship. But to be honest, I just don't know.

Fran...in my opinion you should lay off and let it go. Different things work for different people. Do you even know what training advice was given or the whole story? My guess is that you don't so let it go....

Butting my nose back out.......

[Saje]

I'm glad you sound something that works for you Yukon.

[Fran27]

Sorry, the only advice I had seen so far was catching the dog under the mouth to make them stop biting. Or grabbing the dogs paws when they jump. And I think it's a bit too ... direct, and I don't like it because it's based on making things uncomfortable for the dog.

He also advised using a water spray on my dogs to calm them down. Yes it works, and I've been doing it with Boris for a long time, but I really wish there was something less agressive to fix the problem.

The methods DO work, don't get me wrong. It's just a far cry from positive training.

And Yuck, I'm actually thoughtful enough not to base my opinions on people on a few posts, and I will always support someone when I approve of an idea, whoever it is. Obviously, you don't know me, so no need to make such insinuations.

And btw, I didn't mean agression at all. I just think it's 'agressive' training to use methods that make a dog uncomfortable. Sorry I can't find a better word, English isn't my first language.

[Saje]

First of all, Manchester is a she.

And second of all I think we should let this thread be what it is - a thank you from Yuckaduck to Manchester.

[yuckaduck]

Thanks Saje and to stop all disputes the advice was concerning Yukon's terror of the crate.

She said it would be good to give pieces of steak or hot dogs or something really yummy to him and open the door several times and when he comes out treat him again. I'm very sorry to disagree but to me giving a dog steak pieces or treats is not aggressive at all. I really wish people asked if you want to know the whole story rather than just assuming because one piece of advice is aggressive every piece is aggressive that is given. I was surprised to hear this advice but it has worked and there is no frustration or nasties involved. Got to the yuck through his tummy. Now I wonder if I stop giving the yummies if he will start peeing again? Probably, I would just to get more yummies.

Thanks again Manchesters for the great advice and I look forward to recieveing more advice in future. Of course if I don't like the advice I don't have to follow it either, yuck is my dog and I do have the brain to make my own choices. I actaully was told by my trainer to crate the poor yuck 24/7, now that is plain cruel and I would never do that.

[Fran27]

Of course if I don't like the advice I don't have to follow it either, yuck is my dog and I do have the brain to make my own choices.

Good for you! The thing is, some people follow advice not because they are necessarily stupid, but often misinformed. It's not the same thing at all. Some people have no clue that holding your dog's jaw until he whimpers to make him stop biting may have bad consequences in your relationship between you and the dog. If it's the only advice they get, they can't know better. Thus my post.

And read again what I meant by 'agressive', instead of making such comments in the future. I am NOT american, and for me 'agressive methods' doesn't necessarily means agression, but using the most efficient but 'harsher' manner instead of trying the slower one. Again, I can't find a better word to explain it. I never implied that Manchesters was asking people to beat their dog or anything...

[Doberluv]

I actaully was told by my trainer to crate the poor yuck 24/7, now that is plain cruel and I would never do that. :eek: :mad: Good heavens! Did you lose that trainer?

I'm very sorry to disagree but to me giving a dog steak pieces or treats is not aggressive at all. No, that's great. It associated the crate with a pleasant (more than pleasant LOL) time. I do everything I can this way. Reward the behavior you like and don't reward the behavior you don't like. I go through a lot of T-bones. LOL. Anything the dog doesn't like, doesn't want to do.... or is afraid or upset about needs to be turned into a good thing. :)

I think that was a nice post to thank Manchesters for some great advice on the crate problem.

[yuckaduck]

Fran I am Canadian and agressive to me means being harsh or nasty. I would never do that, I am sorry if there was a miscommunication but I read like I saw it.
Doberluv Yes I lost that trainer and rather quickly too. Cost me over $100 non refundable but I did only one obedience class with her and she spent the entire hour hitting the dogs with a rolled up newspaper. Actually I only stayed for half the lesson, then I politey excused myself and said that it was not the style in which I wanted to train my dog. Needless to say she was very upset with me, but hey it's my dog so I have the right to say no.

When it comes to defending my dog I am very stubborn, no one is going to hit my dog or abuse my dog and get away with it, but no one.

I also tend to get defensive because several times on sit stay's dog forum I was called an abuser when I never did anything. So much so that I was banned from the forum and I never did anything that I was accused of. They said that I was crating the dog and letting him pee in and then not cleaning it up, leaving him in his urine all day. That was 100% false, never happened, not once and yet they clung to that like it was the word of god. So that is why I tend to get defensive, as I love yuck [Yukon] and he is my buddy, my friend, my saviour and yes one of my kids. So Fran I am sorry for the mis understanding.

[Doberluv]

Good grief! That ********* trainer ought to be reported for abuse! That ticks me off. Those stupid people continuing going to her classes! I'm sure glad you walked out. Good for you! :)

That is weird about that other forum. What a bunch of nuts! Of course you love your dog.

[Manchesters]

Good for you! The thing is, some people follow advice not because they are necessarily stupid, but often misinformed. It's not the same thing at all. Some people have no clue that holding your dog's jaw until he whimpers to make him stop biting may have bad consequences in your relationship between you and the dog. If it's the only advice they get, they can't know better. Thus my post.

And read again what I meant by 'agressive', instead of making such comments in the future. I am NOT american, and for me 'agressive methods' doesn't necessarily means agression, but using the most efficient but 'harsher' manner instead of trying the slower one. Again, I can't find a better word to explain it. I never implied that Manchesters was asking people to beat their dog or anything...

How many dogs end up in the shelters because of their uncontrolled behavior? Like jumping on kids and hurting them, or BITING people? Just how uncomfortable do you think they are in those filthy cold, damp runs waiting to be either adopted in 5 days or killed? DO NOT ever attribute human emotions to dogs. Dogs are dogs. They are pack animals, and we humans MUST be the pack leaders, period.

Holding a dog's front paws (you missed the tapping the back toes with your foot!) causes it no pain. It makes the dog nervous, because dogs don't like having their feet messed with. The majority of dogs get the message within 4 or 5 times. Is it better to nag a dog to death, or lock it up when people come over? Or eventually haul it off to the shelter?

Also you totally misread my post on biting. I said nothing about clamping a dog's mouth shut. You say something about how it may damage the dog's relationship with the owner, etc. How many pups have you raised, and tried this method on? None I bet! Well, I have used it successfully on hundreds of pups in the last 30 years. And hundreds of breeders I know use the same technique.

Now, what I DID say was to find the little flap of skin under a puppy's chin and when a pup tries to bite take that flap between your thumb and index finger, give a pinch and shake the pup's head (wiggle, wiggle) while you growl NO BITE!! at it. You WANT the pup to yip so you know it has gotten the message. If you ever saw what a puppy's mother does to it when it bites to hard, you would faint. In fact I have a picture I will post. It will make you poop your drawers, rofl. I just found it last night, and tried to send it to my "My Pictures" folder.

When the result of a puppy's actions can likely end in it having to be killed, NOTHING is too harsh if it stops the unwanted behavior. You HAVE heard of "Tough Love" I am sure. Well, sometimes you have to use it with pets.

I will go see if I can get that picture uploaded to my website. It is a treasure, believe me.

[Manchesters]

Does THIS look harsh????http://tmts.us/images/badpercy.jpg

You seem to think that I am just giving people my opinions here---I am giving people the results of decades of hands on experience. I KNOW what I am talking about. I get a kick out of someone telling a canine behaviorist such as myself that I don't have a clue and give out bad advice. Just who are you to determine if my advice is bad?? Do you have personal experience in this area? And just what would YOU give for good advice, hhhmmmm? I have 20+ dogs that I have raised from conception, with only one idiot that barks in her crate. I would say that my technique works in that area.

In 30 years I have never had a dog jump on me or anyone else unless requested to do so. And they were all happy happy joy joy dogs too. If something seems harsh, then check around with experienced dog people and see what they think. Oh, there is a post just made by Big Dog I think (me and names) called Jumping Up. His dog has injured someone. You think my technique might work?????

And notice the look in Percy's eyes. And look at the "OH SHEEEEET" look on the puppy's face. It KNOWS it has screwed up!!!!! What I do is much kinder in comparison!

[yuckaduck]

This was suppose to be a simple thank you to you and look it has turned into a brawl. Manchester you should not have to defend yourself, certainly not here as it was a thank you and here people should only be saying thank you back. Those who disagree with your methods ought to take it elsewhere rather than screwing up my thanks. This is leaving a horrible taste in my mouth and I am extremely disappointed in those who choose to make my humble thanks a stomping ground. The advice given is described, it was not harsh or aggressive in anyway. I should never have had the need to explain anything anyway. It was a simple thank you that's it, that;s all. Then I end up saying sorry and feeling bad for misunderstandings. What a person can't even say thanks without being jumped on. Makes me rethink my manners, maybe I should just take the cut throat appraoch and not worry about what others think. No that's not me, and I feel if anyone is going to bash someone then when they do a good thing it should be rewarded. So Thank you Manchester and lets just leave it as it was intended, as a thanks.

[Manchesters]

I got so wrapped up in reading the other attempts to put me down that I forgot to say "You are welcome"!! Glad to at least try to help. Sorry for the relapse. Time to buy some more hot diggety dogs! Or something cheaper. Liver is cheap, and giving him some very tiny pieces would work. I used to just throw it into a pot of boiling water with some garlic in it. Then if you want you can stick it into like a toaster oven to dry it out. Handlers do this to use it as bait at the dog shows.

But ya gotta just give little pieces. Too much liver and he might get the runs. But a little garlic soaked liver goes a loooonnnnggggg way! And it is a lot cheaper than hot dogs even!!!

Back to sleep.............. :o

[bridey_01]

aaah hotdogs. Where would we be without them? Then again, Azlan spits out liver AND hotdogs in favour of his kibble. Crazy little guy.

[bubbatd]

A nice compliment should have answered with a simple thank you.

[Manchesters]

A nice compliment should have answered with a simple thank you.

???????? :confused:

[yuckaduck]

Sorry buddatd I don't understand what you are saying. Is it a good thing or a bad thing? It was meant as a simple thank you but others had to jump on it.