Help me find a breed please [Archive]

wolfdoggy

07-09-2005, 08:52 PM

I do not know what breed will be best for me, so I will need some help. Hope some of you could lend a hand with that.

My wishes...

I want a dog that I can teach to walk with without a leash, and not be afraid that it will run away.
I want a dog that is brave and dependable. I mean as a buddy. Not necessarily a guard. I need it to let me know of intruders though.
I want to feel like we have a special relationship. Not like a Labrador that loves everyone almost as much as he loves you.
I really want it to look a little Wolfy too. When I say a Wolfy look, I mean something between German Shepherd an a Wolf.
I want to be able to travel with it to other countries. And want it to be strong enough to walk with some of the wait from the backpack stuff, for most of the day. There will be brakes on the trip of cause,
I don't want a small dog. It must be fairly large. Between about 60-75 cm tall.
I'm looking for a good companion.

I think this is it. I have no idea if there is a dog that fulfill all these wishes. I will of cause be willing to make compromises if needed.

Which breed would you suggest?

Dakotah_2009

07-09-2005, 09:09 PM

As far as most of your wishes go I would say a Rottweiler or a Doberman. These were the first 2 dogs that popped into my mine when I read your wishes. It can tolerate both warm and cold climates and are great campanions, and are good travel dogs. They are also very loyal and will tell you when intruders come about.

Saje

07-09-2005, 09:20 PM

Well.... one of the sledding dogs popped into my head. But they are SO energetic (huskies, malamutes...) are you quite active?

stirder

07-09-2005, 10:04 PM

I know you are considering sarloos wolfhound. from what you have listed on this thread, Id say that is still one of the choices. Id also consider a german shepherd. they are tollerant to different climates, I have travelled with mine from desert to alaska, mid western woods to hawaii and florida tropics. Ive backpacked in the canadian and alaskan wilderness with them and they handled their packs better than I did mine, alerted me to bears, mountain lions, foxes, ravens, mice and mosquitoes, and imaginary monsters. they are very loyal and responsive. doberman and rotties are adaptable to an extent. they would have a hard time adjusting if you went from hot (american southwest in summer, florida, africa etc) to really cold (alaska, siberia, netherlands, canada etc), theyd need more than several days to adjust. in fact many doberman and rottie owners no farther north than kentucky, missouri etc put sweaters on their dogs in the fall, untill spring when playing outside. and even then they shiver a lot.
other possibilities I would suggest are: dutch shepherd, similar to german shepherd but brindle color.
beaceron (not as wolfsih as gsd or sarloos), pretty much a gsd, even similar appearance.
any of the 4 belgian sheepdogs (malinois, tervuren, groenendal, and lakenois). lakenois has a close curly coat, not wolfish. and all the belgian sheepdogs have extremely high energy and drive.
alaskan malamute, wolfish and lots of people hike and camp with them can adapt to any climate if given time to get used to it. not guard dogs (occasionally they are) but will bark at intruders. also pretty friendly to everyone, usually.
siberian laika, either west or eastern. pretty much a siberian husky, but more responsive and more territorial. so more likely to protect and not immediately make friends.
canaan dog. somewhat energetic and smaller. good guard dogs from what I hear.
carolina dog. same as above but hard headed.
karelian bear dog. dont know a whole lot about this dog, similar to a husky in appearance, bred to hunt bears.

bubbatd

07-09-2005, 10:09 PM

OH BOY !!! Grammy's staying out of this one !!!!! May come in on the 300th post !!! Will be watching for the fireworks !

stirder

07-09-2005, 10:26 PM

theres gonna be fireworks??? should I run and hide?? or pick a prime front row seat??

Renee750il

07-09-2005, 10:29 PM

One thing to consider that you haven't mentioned is your experience handling and training dogs. Some breeds that would fit your desires just aren't right for most people.

Actually, once I had what would have been the perfect dog for you. My Bear was from a shelter. I adopted him as an adult dog, about four or five years old. Part German Shepherd, part Akita. You could do very well looking for the perfect dog through adoption. You can't ever be sure how a puppy is going to turn out. They all have their own individual personalities and quirks that don't necessarily show up until they're grown! I've got two Filas, and you couldn't ask for two more different personalities!

Now Bimmer, my little GSD/wolf orphan who was thrown out on a farm, is another one who would be perfect, although I wouldn't necessarily trust him off leash in the woods as he's a real hunter. I'm not suggesting you find a dog/wolf mix - far from it! Especially if you're going to be hiking and do want to work off lead; that hunting drive is just too, too strong. My point goes back to finding the perfect dog by not necessarily looking in the obvious places.

BigDog2191

07-09-2005, 11:06 PM

I was thinking Malamute. Or Doberman... actually the way you're describing... the German shepherd seems perfect.

Babyblue5290

07-09-2005, 11:12 PM

I don't think I would go for a husky or malamute if you want it to be trusted off leash.
My experience is they can never be trusted off leash. They are just unpredictable in that respect.

wolfdoggy

07-10-2005, 07:26 AM

Stirder. Do you know of a breeder that breeds the European German Shepherds you showed the other day? The one that look like a Saarloos Wolfhound. I doubt I can find one in Denmark.

Please, if any of you have more suggestions then tell me.

BigDog2191

07-10-2005, 10:46 AM

You could get one imported. But any of good quality like that is going to cost you.

gaddylovesdogs

07-10-2005, 10:50 AM

I think a German Shepherd mix would be a good idea....they meet basically all your requirements....loyal, protective, strong, active.... I don't think I would go for a husky or malamute if you want it to be trusted off leash.
I agree. They can't be trusted off-leash.

wolfdoggy

07-10-2005, 11:16 AM

About Siberian Husky and Alaskan Malamute. Do they meet my other requirements?

gaddylovesdogs

07-10-2005, 11:20 AM

My wishes...

I want a dog that I can teach to walk with without a leash, and not be afraid that it will run away. Cannot be trusted off-leash
I want a dog that is brave and dependable. I mean as a buddy. Not necessarily a guard. I need it to let me know of intruders though. In my experience they are not good watchdogs
I want to feel like we have a special relationship. Not like a Labrador that loves everyone almost as much as he loves you. Most dogs become very attached to their owners
I really want it to look a little Wolfy too. When I say a Wolfy look, I mean something between German Shepherd an a Wolf. Why do you want it to look wolfy??
I want to be able to travel with it to other countries. And want it to be strong enough to walk with some of the wait from the backpack stuff, for most of the day. There will be brakes on the trip of cause,
I don't want a small dog. It must be fairly large. Between about 60-75 cm tall.
I'm looking for a good companion. They are large and can handle loads

About Siberian Husky and Alaskan Malamute. Do they meet my other requirements?

My answers are in bold.

BigDog2191

07-10-2005, 11:20 AM

Yes, actually. It seems they do... the first breed that I thought of was an Alaskan Malamute the way you described it.

wolfdoggy

07-10-2005, 11:25 AM

The reason why I want a wolfy looking dog is partly because a wolfy look is beautiful. But also because I want to feel like I have a "wolf" companion (I don't necessarily mean a wolfdog), and not a simple "dog". If you know what I mean?

There are a few other reason, but for some reason I can't remember them.

Babyblue5290

07-10-2005, 11:25 AM

I want a dog that I can teach to walk with without a leash, and not be afraid that it will run away.

nope.....runs off leash.

I want a dog that is brave and dependable. I mean as a buddy. Not necessarily a guard. I need it to let me know of intruders though.
I don't think they bark that much, they howl, but still not a lot.

I want to feel like we have a special relationship. Not like a Labrador that loves everyone almost as much as he loves you.
They do have a special bond with you, but they are also people oriented. My loves all and everyone (practicly) but every dog is different and you need socializing.

I really want it to look a little Wolfy too. When I say a Wolfy look, I mean something between German Shepherd an a Wolf
Yup.....has a wolf like look.

I want to be able to travel with it to other countries. And want it to be strong enough to walk with some of the wait from the backpack stuff, for most of the day. There will be brakes on the trip of cause
I know they can carry their own things and some of yours for a long time, but not sure on traveling to other countries.

I don't want a small dog. It must be fairly large. Between about 60-75 cm tall.
erm...not sure how tall that is. I think Mals go at around 25 in at shoulders for the males and sibes are a bit shorter.

I'm looking for a good companion.
Yup....but they are more independent...not big cuddlers, although mine cuddles sometimes.

poeluvr

07-10-2005, 11:38 AM

Besides the wolfy thing i think a golden would be good . But if you want one that looks wolfy and will walk off leash thats hard. Well i guess since you mentioned a German Shepard they can be trained well. If you dont want a German, I wouldnt reccomend a husky or half wolf mix, they tend to wander,, not good off leash. The best beside the GS would i think be a malamute I just recently learned talking to another person.
Oh it was you i was talking too!

Fran27

07-10-2005, 11:41 AM

Goldens love everyone :(

poeluvr

07-10-2005, 11:46 AM

i know, but she said shes not exactly looking for a guard dog

wolfdoggy

07-10-2005, 11:51 AM

Babyblue5290

07-10-2005, 11:53 AM

Haha! Shes a he. I'm a guy.

I don't need a guard dog . And I dont necessarily need it to bark at an intruder. I just need it to somehow let me know of intruders, or people walking close to the tent when we sleep.

Almost any dog will at least get up and somehow let you know there is someone there........my mal runs up wagging his tail :rolleyes:

poeluvr

07-10-2005, 11:59 AM

o sorry wolf.
See fran Im right, ur always correcting me.

Babyblue5290

07-10-2005, 12:01 PM

o sorry wolf.
See fran Im right, ur always correcting me.

But he also mentioned that he wanted a dog that would form more of a bond to him....not one that would just love everyone.

Babyblue5290

07-10-2005, 12:03 PM

Haha! Shes a he. I'm a guy.

It's so hard to tell if the person is male or female on the computer....unless their name is something like...I'm a big guydoglover....or girlsrock...or something like that. :rolleyes: LOL

poeluvr

07-10-2005, 12:04 PM

i no butgenerally any dog could be taught something simple like that. If he wanted a more guarding dog though he would have to go with a guard dog

Babyblue5290

07-10-2005, 12:06 PM

i no butgenerally any dog could be taught something simple like that. If he wanted a guard dog though he would have to go with a guard dog

Any dog can be taught to gaurd......or and Malamute's will protect the people in their packs, beleive me they will stand up to almost anything for you :D ........and I don't think fran was correcting you just for the heck of it. She was trying to make sure wolfdoggy got the right information.

wolfdoggy

07-10-2005, 12:11 PM

So my most obvious choices are these. Alaskan Malamute, German Shepherd, And maybe Saarloos wolfhound, right? Are there any more breeds not mentioned here, that could be a good choice?

poeluvr

07-10-2005, 12:13 PM

Any dog can be taught to gaurd......or and Malamute's will protect the people in their packs, beleive me they will stand up to almost anything for you :D ........and I don't think fran was correcting you just for the heck of it. She was trying to make sure wolfdoggy got the right information.
but actually i was giving the right info i said a golden would be good , fran said but they like everyone. i said yea but shes not really looking for a guard dog, just a dog for intruder. so i think i gave correct information. Also yes malamutes will stand up for you, he doesnt really care if it does or doesnt though:confused:
just never mind though, whatever :)

beagle_lovergirl

07-10-2005, 12:27 PM

Here are some that would be perfect although they are somewhat rare. Also, no dog should be going off leash.

Chinook
East Siberian Laika
Greenland Dog
Leonberger
Native American Indian Dog
Samoyed
West Siberian Laika

stirder

07-10-2005, 12:34 PM

I dont know any breeders in denmark, but I do know there are quite a few. here is a link to a kennel in belgium, this is where I got my male. you could have one shipped to you, or he will be happy to help you find a breeder closer to you, or even find a dog for you if you tell him what you want. his name is Rinus, to contact him click on "email", to see my dog click on "happy customers" we are the 4th customer down. to see his breeding stock click on "our dogs" and then click the dogs names. http://users.pandora.be/daelenberghutte/index2.htm
and keep in mind, the dogs are posing in those pictures. they dont normally have that stance of one leg behind the other. he had to place them in that pose, called a stack.

Babyblue5290

07-10-2005, 12:41 PM

but actually i was giving the right info i said a golden would be good , fran said but they like everyone. i said yea but shes not really looking for a guard dog, just a dog for intruder. so i think i gave correct information. Also yes malamutes will stand up for you, he doesnt really care if it does or doesnt though:confused:
just never mind though, whatever :)

LEA there's no need to get upset, I wasn't attacking you. I was just telling you why people would correct you, and anyone else they thought was giving information that may be wrong or confusing. And being wrong isn't a bad thing anyways it's the only way to learn, not saying you were I'm just saying.

I was just saying that malamutes stand up for the people they love, just as a side note for him if he was going to look into one.

poeluvr

07-10-2005, 12:42 PM

LEA there's no need to get upset, I wasn't attacking you. I was just telling you why people would correct you, and anyone else they thought was giving information that may be wrong or confusing. And being wrong isn't a bad thing anyways it's the only way to learn, not saying you were I'm just saying.

I was just saying that malamutes stand up for the people they love, just as a side note for him if he was going to look into one.
babyblue no upset here, thats why i put the smiley :) i know its hard to tell on computers :)

Babyblue5290

07-10-2005, 12:47 PM

babyblue no upset here, thats why i put the smiley :) i know its hard to tell on computers :)

ok..good :) ....like you said it's hard to tell on the computers :o

stirder

07-10-2005, 12:50 PM

Im still of the opinion that a gsd best meets your criteria.

wolfdoggy

07-10-2005, 12:53 PM

Wow, that sounds awesome stirder! Guess that will be the place to buy it if I choose a German Shepherd. Is it European shepherds or American?

oriondw

07-10-2005, 01:02 PM

Im still of the opinion that a gsd best meets your criteria.

I agree. A good GSD would be the best choice.

Also, Say "NO" to buying american bred GSD's. :p

wolfdoggy

07-10-2005, 01:05 PM

Also, Say "NO" to buying american bred GSD's. :p
Why is that?

stirder

07-10-2005, 01:06 PM

deffinetly not an american bloodline. they cant hold their own butts off the ground, how would they carry a backpack??? besides hes in denmark so hes a lot more likely to get a german or czech bloodline dog. Id go with german working lines, german showlines, then czech in that order.

bubbatd

07-10-2005, 01:06 PM

I have a friend in New Hampshire who is big into photography and hiking. She has a back pack for her Golden to carry her equipment/water etc. Always off leash , always with her. Her friend and companion. Yes, they would warn of intruders ,. But then, I'm partial. Second choice would be GS.

Fran27

07-10-2005, 01:11 PM

LEA, just to make sure, it wasn't personal at all, I was just stating that goldens are really friendly. But yeah I don't think any breed would fit that list completely anyway.

In any case, I really don't know much about breeds so I just have no clue, I'll leave it to the people who have a clue what they are talking about, lol.

poeluvr

07-10-2005, 01:11 PM

Im still of the opinion that a gsd best meets your criteria.
but strider your no help u always promote GS. lol ur of course gonna say a GS :D

stirder

07-10-2005, 01:15 PM

hey I like other breeds, there are a few I like as much as gsd's. but from the criteria he has listed, and from other tidbits hes told me in private messages, I honestly think the gsd is the best match. if he was looking for a clown that would entertain him 24 hours a day wether he wanted it or not, and would never obey anything he said I would recommend a jack russel. my 3 fav breeds are gsd, golden retriever and jack russel, in no particular order.

Babyblue5290

07-10-2005, 01:16 PM

I think a GSD would be a very good choice

bubbatd

07-10-2005, 01:33 PM

A Jack Russel with a back pack ?

stirder

07-10-2005, 01:36 PM

it could haul its own tennis ball??? wasnt suggesting it for THIS criteria, just meant that I was basing my suggestions off of what he wanted. if he wanted hell on wheels a jack russel would fit.
hey...jack russel could catch rabbits and squirrels for him to eat while camping.

gaddylovesdogs

07-10-2005, 01:38 PM

Are you TRYING to be rude, stirder?

stirder

07-10-2005, 01:38 PM

how am I being rude?

bubbatd

07-10-2005, 01:46 PM

Tut tut !!!! Stirder has his tongue in cheek.....making a funny.

stirder

07-10-2005, 01:49 PM

seriously, how am I being rude? I made a joke about jack russels, they are high energy and very full of themselves. Ive had 2 and love them but they are little devils.

gaddylovesdogs

07-10-2005, 01:51 PM

I own a very wonderul canaan/jack mix, and what you said was rude to me. You were acting sarcast, by saying, "it could haul it's own tennis ball" and "could catch rabbits and squirrels for him to eat while camping".

stirder

07-10-2005, 01:55 PM

nooo, wasnt sarcastic. joking a little but its true. a pure jack russel cant haul much weight, as dogs should not carry more than 10% of their body weight. and jack russels love to chase small animals more than anything, as its what they were specifically bred to do. Im sorry if that offended you, but I didnt say anything that wasnt true about jack russels.

poeluvr

07-10-2005, 01:57 PM

stirder

07-10-2005, 01:58 PM

wre you offended when I said they could pack their own tennis balls and hunt squirrels and rabbits while camping lea?

poeluvr

07-10-2005, 01:59 PM

ummm....no:)

stirder

07-10-2005, 02:01 PM

good, I really didnt think I was saying anything offensive, and still dont understand how it was offensive. but oh well...glad to know theres a jack russel owner that isnt as easily offended as some people seem to be.
lea, your dog is just adorable by the way.

poeluvr

07-10-2005, 02:02 PM

yea, hes our lil cheerleading mascot!

stirder

07-10-2005, 02:03 PM

seriously? does he attack the pom poms? how old is he?

poeluvr

07-10-2005, 02:07 PM

no we just say that. we tried, but yea he wouldnt be good as one, he would attack people. hes 11 weeks

poeluvr

07-10-2005, 02:10 PM

yea gaddylovesdogs he wasnt being mean at all ..he has jacks..joke

gaddylovesdogs

07-10-2005, 03:39 PM

wre you offended when I said they could pack their own tennis balls and hunt squirrels and rabbits while camping lea?

good, I really didnt think I was saying anything offensive, and still dont understand how it was offensive. but oh well...glad to know theres a jack russel owner that isnt as easily offended as some people seem to be.
lea, your dog is just adorable by the way.
I read both of these as rude and sarcastic. It's hard to understand what people are saying online, as you can't see any facial expressions and you can't hear any tone.

Lea -

If I read it as offensive, I read it as offensive!! Geesh.

wolfdoggy

07-10-2005, 05:01 PM

Stirder. The dog pictures on the wepsite you gave me, was all normal Shepherds. With the backs wrong, and butts kissing the floor. Don't he have any European Shepherds?

poeluvr

07-10-2005, 05:04 PM

I read both of these as rude and sarcastic. It's hard to understand what people are saying online, as you can't see any facial expressions and you can't hear any tone.

Lea -

If I read it as offensive, I read it as offensive!! Geesh.
god i cant say anything anymore without me backing down in the endbecause i dont want any1 to be angry

gaddylovesdogs

07-10-2005, 05:06 PM

I was just saying that I was not speaking to you about jacks, I was talking to stirder. Sorry, I went a little overboard with you.

stirder

07-10-2005, 05:06 PM

they are, like I said they are in the ugly pose for the pictures. trust me, contact him and tell him what you want. if he doesnt have what you want he will find it, and email you pics of all the dogs he finds. just tell him what you want in a dog and he will find a dog to make YOU drool. also tell HIM what your price range is, that way if its $500 max he wont waste time looking at $5,000 dogs. and he wont be offended if you look at pics he emails you and tell him they arent quite right. he may ask a few more questions, but he wont try to convince you into a dog that you arent sure about. and with his contacts he may know a few sarloos breeders you havnt found yet.
just give him an email and tell him as much as you can about what you want in a dog. tell him Brad (guy who baught Dior) reffered you.

wolfdoggy

07-10-2005, 05:08 PM

LEA. Learn from that little beast Poe. Be ruthless!

poeluvr

07-10-2005, 05:14 PM

I was just saying that I was not speaking to you about jacks, I was talking to stirder. Sorry, I went a little overboard with you.
thats ok . sory too shouldnt have involved myself

poeluvr

07-10-2005, 05:15 PM

LEA. Learn from that little beast Poe. Be ruthless!
lol... :D hes more of a :eek: then a :mad:

wolfdoggy

07-10-2005, 05:26 PM

Indeed? I always thought of small dogs as nasty critters. I always see those little poodles, Terriers, and all their minions barking, and giving me a fierce look when I pass them. Most of the big dogs wants me to pat them. The small dogs just wants to bite me.

poeluvr

07-10-2005, 05:30 PM

well no i no wat you mean, he likes to be petted, and if he didnt have people to love him he'd like die, hes a total suck...lol

stirder

07-10-2005, 05:56 PM

most small dogs either want you to THINK they are tough so you wont hurt them, overcompesnating :) or they really think they ARE big and bad. depends on the dog. their all cute though.

BigDog2191

07-10-2005, 05:58 PM

I like big dogs for some reason. There's only a few small dogs I like. Beagles, Bassett Hounds, and a couple others.

luvmydogs

07-10-2005, 06:00 PM

most small dogs either want you to THINK they are tough so you wont hurt them, overcompesnating :) or they really think they ARE big and bad. depends on the dog. their all cute though.
My min pin thinks he is a dobie...he would bite someones arm off in a heart beat. not my fault though. the previous owners fault...thats why i named him "cujo" LOL

poeluvr

07-10-2005, 06:00 PM

yea till recently i just wanted a malamute. a big cuddly teddybear. but i want a more portable dog, so i can take him to more places that is why i got a small

wolfdoggy

07-10-2005, 06:47 PM

I never really liked small dogs. Guess that was because of my sisters Poodle, when I was a little boy. I hated that little beast. Where I live, there is about five of these small critters, all thinking they are the terror of the neighborhood.

But Poe is cute. He reminds me of a Border Collie pup, and I like Border Collies.

BigDog2191

07-10-2005, 07:33 PM

So, what did you decide on? To me, a GSD sounds absolutely perfect. But Malamute comes in second.

wolfdoggy

07-10-2005, 07:50 PM

I haven't come to a decision yet, but I'm pretty sure it will be a German Shepherd. I don't like the teddybear look on the Malamute.
One of my problems is that my mind is still trying to find an excuse to choose a Siberian Husky. I just can't resist that dog.

stirder

07-10-2005, 08:18 PM

not to be a buzz kill but...if you HAVE to convince yourself there is a reason to get a husky, you probably shouldnt get one. it doesnt meet some of your criteria, such as protective/watchdog, and able to walk off leash.

wolfdoggy

07-10-2005, 09:04 PM

I know. It's like seeing a big fat cheeseburger when on a diet. I guess Im settled on the Shepherd.

BigDog2191

07-10-2005, 09:49 PM

Well, don't get a dog you don't like. Get a dog encyclopedia or go to a book store and look through it. There are so many breeds out there and there's definitely one for you.

bubbatd

07-10-2005, 10:23 PM

I really don't think you've decided yet.....take your time. This is a long time love commitment . Actually longer from what I read than marriage commitments !!!!

EliNHunter

07-10-2005, 10:57 PM

Yea... you can't "put your spouse down" when your sick of him... Lol...

EliNHunter

07-10-2005, 11:01 PM

That was a very harsh thing to say. Especially since my ex and I are very best friends. I guess it's just a wake up call that picking a pet and taking care of them is as serioous as adopting a child. There is SO MUCH that needs to be taken into consideration. I wish there were laws and tests for people to pass before they can get a human or an animal...

bubbatd

07-11-2005, 01:43 AM

Glad you set that straight ! Unfortunately it's trial and error for both at this point.

Saje

07-11-2005, 01:58 AM

I don't know much about this breed but I think Akita's are gorgeous. I've read that you should read into them. They seem to need an experienced owner though which you aren't?

Dakotah_2009

07-11-2005, 08:55 AM

I still think Doberman or Rottie.....had to say something! LOL

wolfdoggy

07-11-2005, 09:17 AM

I have to admit that the only dogs mentioned here, that I like the looks on, is the Dutch Shepherd, German Shepherd, Saarloos Wolfhound, and Siberian Husky.

I have read this about the Dutch Shepherd: Dutch Shepherd info (http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/dutchshepherd.htm) . I wonder what the difference is between this and the German Shepherd?

My experience with dog are not very good. I have worked with different breeds for a short time though, but have never had my own dog. Ironically I am the person who knows most about how to treat dogs, read their "language", and all that, of almost all the dog owners I have met. Unfortunately that don't mean much considered that those dog owners were fools. I don't think my lag of experience will be that big a problem Saje.

stirder

07-11-2005, 10:58 AM

the main differences between the dutch shepherd and the german shepherd is that a large dutch is about 65 pounds. a large gsd is 85-90 pounds (strider is 95 and acceptable for shows). also the dutch shepherd is brindle, a color that hasnt been found in the purebred gsd for quite some time. they are not very different. they do come in long and short and wire-haired coats (also one I dont see on that site, long curly coat). they were mostly created through crossings of german shepherd with the belgian shepherds (malinois, groenedael, tervuren, laekenois). the wire haired (wolf hound looking type) coat came from the laekenois. the most common is the smooth coat. Ive only worked with one of these dogs, was a firecracker in protection, agility, and obedience. and I just might have to import one for myself someday soon.
they are bit more energetic than a gsd, and though anything is possible, I wouldnt recommend them to a beginner. any of you know how the malinois compares to the gsd? dutchs energy/drives are more similar to the malinois.

wolfdoggy

07-11-2005, 11:33 AM

Why wont you recommend the Dutch shepherd to a beginner? Will it require much more exercise than a German? To me, the Dutch sounds like an improved version of the German.

stirder

07-11-2005, 11:40 AM

physically its smaller. energy and drive are like a gsd on steroids or speed. the reason I want to get one eventually is because (from what I have heard, and the one I worked with) I consider them a challenge on the same level as the belgian malinois. if they dont have a serious job to do every day, most of the day, they are going to bounce off the walls and be uncontrollable. due to its high energy and extremely high drives it is not a breed for a first time owner. put it this way, the one I worked with was a search and rescue dog. everyday his owner would take him for a minimum of a 12 mile hike through everything from swamps to suburbs, training tracking for search and rescue. he brought the dog to me and I worked with it for 2 weeks. he had to sell the dog to someone who competes in advanced herding trials and trains hard everyday so it could get the proper mental and physical excercise. he now has a gsd for search and rescue.

stirder

07-11-2005, 11:41 AM

its possible that you could do great with one, its also possible that this one was overly hyper. I just recommend a lot of research before you get one.

wolfdoggy

07-11-2005, 11:57 AM

I think one more requirement or wish would be best to get out on the open as well.

When I said I want a companion, I partly meant that I don't want to make him a project, a slave, or a pet. I want a friend that I can be around, and have him like a traveling companion, and such. I don't intent to use those kinds of toys where the dog has to find a way to get the goody out of the box or anything like hiding his food or something so he can find it etc. Perhaps I will, but it's not something I'm planning on doing. I don't intent to give him a "job", like training him to be a herder. Perhaps I will, but it's not in my plan. I will however take him to training in the club for his breed, and with all that offers.

Is these things requirements for getting these dogs that is mentioned?

stirder

07-11-2005, 11:58 AM

Id go with the gsd. a lot of people give them a job but as long as you train them and excercise them they dont NEED a job.

Renee750il

07-11-2005, 12:22 PM

A German Shepherd really does sound like the best choice. It's not so much a job they need as it so to feel useful. I always tell mine, if I'm going somewhere and they can't come, to watch the house. It gives them something legitimate to do and they are proud of being useful.

wolfdoggy

07-11-2005, 12:37 PM

I had a feeling from the start that the German was the choice for me. But that breed is the most popular breed in my country, and since I like to be different, I was looking for an excuse for a different breed. But I'm most likely gonna feel different anyway. I just need to find one that is as black as they get. And medium long hair.

oriondw

07-11-2005, 12:44 PM

I always tell mine, if I'm going somewhere and they can't come, to watch the house.

I do that as well :o

stirder

07-11-2005, 12:46 PM

if you want wolfish look go with german or czech working lines. they have a lot more sables. http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a152/angel_perrer/63484970sCEkgH_ph.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a152/angel_perrer/155079524QiVtRO_ph.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a152/angel_perrer/AriSilver.jpg

wolfdoggy

07-11-2005, 01:15 PM

These are more my taste of Shepherds. http://www.gillsgermanshepherds.com/dogs05/Alexa%20von%20den%20Horloffwiesen.jpg http://www.gillsgermanshepherds.com/dogs/mandi.jpg http://www.schaeferhund-langstockhaar.de/images/awurf/ayko/DSC01405.jpg
Okay that last picture is a girl, but I like her looks. What line are they from do you think?

Dakotah_2009

07-11-2005, 01:20 PM

Germans r a great choice for you! Hope you find one u want!

stirder

07-11-2005, 01:34 PM

top one is german working lines, thats what the top 2 I posted (german working lines)will look like when full grown. the 2nd one you posted is german show, probably a lot of american show lines judging by his rear legs and rear end. the bottom one is a mix of lines, judging by the bone structure and head size/shape.
heres more german working line dogs
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a152/angel_perrer/IltisWildsau.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a152/angel_perrer/SvenGraefental.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a152/angel_perrer/nando.jpg

stirder

07-11-2005, 01:35 PM

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a152/angel_perrer/ulina10.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a152/angel_perrer/nandovesikalik.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a152/angel_perrer/nandogolet.jpg

all of these 3 are german working lines, same as previous 3 I posted.

wolfdoggy

07-11-2005, 01:50 PM

All these Shepherd posted just now, mine included, are Europeans, right?

stirder

07-11-2005, 01:56 PM

the second one you posted looks like a cross between german show lines and american showlines. the 3rd you posted looks like a little bit of everything, mostly american lines. all of the dogs I posted are german working lines. Ill try to find you a few pics of czech lines

stirder

07-11-2005, 01:59 PM

heres a czech working line. they are typically a bit smaller, with much harder drive.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a152/angel_perrer/arin19mo.jpg

beagle_lovergirl

07-11-2005, 02:06 PM

If you want something more husky-looking, look at these breeds.
Greenland Dog
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/greenlanddog.htm
Native American Indian Dog
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/nativeamericanindiandog.htm

Renee750il

07-11-2005, 03:32 PM

I like the looks of the Czech dog, Stirder, although I'd prefer the legs to be a bit more sturdy . . . although that looks like a female and I'd expect a more delicate bone structure in the female.

BigDog2191

07-11-2005, 03:51 PM

I want to get another GSD! :D

stirder

07-11-2005, 04:33 PM

suprisingly that is a male czech, some of them are larger boned because a lot of czech have german working (ddr) in them, and vice versa. and to be honest I love all of the gsd types except american and UK showlines. if I had to pick a favorite it would be a toss up between german show and german working. I prefer the bigger bones, more muscular looking dogs. but in females I do prefer a more feminine look, most german show and working line females look more like that czech male. I guess thats why I dont like the czech as much, Im more used to the german lines and the czechs (even males) look like german females.

wolfdoggy

07-11-2005, 04:36 PM

I liked the look on the Native American Indian Dog, and it's character traits. But it said it needed a cage, and I dont like that. Plus I'm liking the Shepherd more and more. I just need to stop thinking about Huskies and Wolfdogs, and then things will become easier. So a German Shepherd from a German Working line, and as black as I can get, will be my choice. That was your suggestion right, or was it Czech?

stirder

07-11-2005, 04:50 PM

it depends on which type you prefer. the czech is a bit more hyper than the german lines, but compared to the malinois it is a lazy couch potatoe. you can easily find a great quality dog that is exactly what you want (or as close as possible) in german working or show lines, czech working or showlines.
when you ready to seriously start looking for THE dog, contact rinus and he will find it for you. it may not be one of his, but he knows a ton of breeders and trainers and has 1000 times as many connections as I do. when I got strider from him he didnt charge me shipping, from belgium to louisiana. and I had almost decided on a different dog when he told me about strider (dior van corsalabroek is how Rinus knows him), the other dog wasnt one of his and he wasnt going to charge me a finding fee. a lot of kennels, breeders and importers charge a finding fee which can range from $500-$2,000 or more. he wont steer you wrong, try to convince you to get this dog when you really want that dog, and he wont overcharge you.

wolfdoggy

07-11-2005, 04:57 PM

Sounds very good. I hope I get the same treatment.

A big thanks to you all for the help.

stirder

07-11-2005, 05:03 PM

doubt if it will be necassary, but tell him brad shelton (the guy who baught dior)referred you.

beagle_lovergirl

07-11-2005, 05:08 PM

wolfdoggy

07-11-2005, 05:09 PM

I'll write it down to remember it. I hope it wont be long til I can get one.

stirder

07-11-2005, 05:11 PM

keep us all informed.

wolfdoggy

07-11-2005, 05:14 PM

It needs a cage? The page says it doesn't like cages. Well, suit yourself. GSD are great dogs and seem to fit your requirements :)

"The Native American Indian Dog does not do well as an apartment dog or a total housedog. They need a fenced in area where they can run and play at will"
I might have missunderstood that. But I intent to have the dog inside when we aren't outside together. Thats what I meant.

wolfdoggy

07-11-2005, 05:15 PM

keep us all informed.
Of cause.

beagle_lovergirl

07-11-2005, 05:17 PM

"The Native American Indian Dog does not do well as an apartment dog or a total housedog. They need a fenced in area where they can run and play at will"
I might have missunderstood that. But I intent to have the dog inside when we aren't outside together. Thats what I meant.

Oh. I thought that meant he needs space? Teehe, sorry :D

BigDog2191

07-11-2005, 05:19 PM

You said you want as black as possible? You know there are black GSD's out there. I have no clue where the blood lines from those come from.

stirder

07-11-2005, 05:23 PM

it means that they cant be trusted off leash, and if not given enough excercise they will tear the place apart. I have heard of a few people who ket them, elderly people in apartments, and they did fine. they just need a lot of excersise and they are deffinetly not a beginner dog. very smart but they are hwat is known as a pariah breed. a semi wild, semi domestic dog like the carolina dog and the dingo. they can be good pets, but they can also survive with humans. and they are extremely independant.
I think you have a good choice with the gsd. after training one or two (even while you have one) and have experience with training, by all means do more research into other breeds like the wolf dogs, indian dogs, huskies etc. or you might fall totally in love with the gsd breed and never want anything else.

stirder

07-11-2005, 05:25 PM

and keep in mind, of all the breeds you have thought about, a puppy from any one of them is going to have a lot more energy than when its an adult. so dont expect a gsd puppy to be lazy, since I said they are much calmer than a malinois. puppies have a ton of energy, when really young its in really short bursts.

BigDog2191

07-11-2005, 05:51 PM

Tell me about it... :rolleyes:

stirder

07-11-2005, 06:02 PM

lol, yeah you and wolfdoggy should chat. is rocky starting to calm down yet? strider will be 19 months on the 18th, not as energetic as a puppy, but hes not an adult yet.

BigDog2191

07-11-2005, 06:10 PM

Actually, yes. I'm going to teach him the "Drop it" command soon and then along with letting him eat with a hambone from my hand and hand-feeding him eveyrthing should be fine. Hopefully.

wolfdoggy

07-11-2005, 06:53 PM

How old should I say I want the dog to be? 8 months? And how much do you think it will cost me a month to have him?

BigDog2191

07-11-2005, 07:16 PM

How old should I say I want the dog to be? 8 months? And how much do you think it will cost me a month to have him?

Whenever you feel is suitable. I think 8 months is appropriate. But the only problem I would have with that is, if a pup leaves the breeding grounds or it's "nest" too early; some problems may occur. It may have already established it's role in the pack. And you may have a tough time getting it out of him.

If I were you, I'd ask from a somewhat submissive dog.

stirder

07-11-2005, 07:36 PM

are you wanting to avoid puppy problems and know with more certainty what the dogs health and temperment will be? strider was 12 months when I got him, and didnt have any problems. he bonded with me and my wife within seconds. the only thing is that an older one like that will cost more, because it will almost certainly have started training, and not just sit stay, but with a european kennel that has a 8 month old dog for sale it has probably started schutzhund or some other competitive training. a well bred 9 week old puppy...$500-1,200 US dollars. 8 month old puppy...$1,000-$3,000 US dollars, depending on breeding and how much training it has recieved.

BigDog2191

07-11-2005, 08:45 PM

stirder

07-11-2005, 10:04 PM

it depends on the bloodlines and training, but yeah, some go for even more.

wolfdoggy

07-12-2005, 07:24 AM

stirder. Do you have any pictures of Stirder when you got him? Was he a little pup?

wolfdoggy

07-12-2005, 09:43 AM

stirder. Do you have any pictures of Stirder when you got him? Was he a little pup?
Strider. sorry.

stirder

07-12-2005, 11:55 AM

yeah I do but he was 12 months old at the time.

BigDog2191

07-12-2005, 11:56 AM

And he was imported? To your door? Or did you pick him up at the airport?

wolfdoggy

07-12-2005, 11:57 AM

I would love to see a picture if you would show one. I have no idea of how big he is when 12 months.

stirder

07-12-2005, 12:39 PM

yeah he was imported from belgium. the closest airpost that he could go to was dallas. so we picked him up there. its about 5 hours away, I-20 west almost the whole way.
okay, heres a couple pics. I have a few more posted on the thread "post a pic".
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/panzer426/DSC00340.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/panzer426/DSC00338.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/panzer426/kitchen.jpg

BigDog2191

07-12-2005, 12:40 PM

Was he already trained obedience wise? Did he have Schutzhund experience? Trouble bonding? Just curious....

EliNHunter

07-12-2005, 12:42 PM

stirder

07-12-2005, 12:45 PM

we was being trained for the belgian military police. they needed 3 dogs at the time, so 6 were in the training program. strider had great bite work, but was too friendly. he was already trained in basic obedience and started on some advanced commands. he had a schutzhund 1 title already. but yeah, he was replaced by a better dog. we are working on sch 2 and 3.
and thank you!!!

wolfdoggy

07-12-2005, 12:48 PM

He's hansome! Also the picture where he stops jumping up the tree. He looks so cute in that picture. He looks almost like an adult. I thought 12 months he would still be a little dog. Perhaps 8-10 months old would be what I want.

BigDog2191

07-12-2005, 12:50 PM

Fran27

07-12-2005, 12:50 PM

He's handsome, and I have to say I'm very jealous of your kitchen :D Mine sucks...

stirder

07-12-2005, 12:53 PM

wolfdoggy, look at bigdogs signature, those 2 pictures he has. Im just guessing that Rocky is probably 9 weeks old in the first picture, and 5-6 months in the 2nd one?

BigDog2191

07-12-2005, 12:59 PM

Yeah he's about 8 weeks in the first one. 5 months in the 2nd one.

wolfdoggy

07-12-2005, 01:06 PM

Indeed? I thought most people got a dog that looked like that 8 weeks photo. And since I have read that 8months was the ideal age for bringing it home.

Perhaps I was mistaking 8 months with 8 weeks. I gotta find that site again.

stirder

07-12-2005, 01:08 PM

your thinking weeks. some say 8 weeks, a lot are starting to say 9 weeks. personally I prefer 9 weeks.

stirder

07-12-2005, 01:08 PM

the only benifit of getting an older dog is that you know more about its personality and health. and you dont have to house train and deal with chewing etc. but puppies are a lot of fun.

wolfdoggy

07-12-2005, 01:12 PM

Can one tell it's final look when it's only 9 weeks old? Like saying this dog will keep being almost totally black?

stirder

07-12-2005, 01:14 PM

breeder should be able to tell you. and you can get an idea on your own by looking at the parents.

wolfdoggy

07-12-2005, 01:31 PM

Okay. I have no idea on what age I want him to be anymore. How old do GHD's normally get?

stirder

07-12-2005, 01:33 PM

12-15

stirder

07-12-2005, 01:34 PM

do you want the cute puppy stage, where they also have lots of accidents and chew things. or do you want a dog that has already started training? also depends on your budget.

BigDog2191

07-12-2005, 01:40 PM

the only benifit of getting an older dog is that you know more about its personality and health. and you dont have to house train and deal with chewing etc. but puppies are a lot of fun.

But a lot more work, too.

stirder

07-12-2005, 01:51 PM

thats for sure

wolfdoggy

07-12-2005, 02:00 PM

Perhaps 3 months old
http://www.gsdrescue.org/images/romeo.jpg . How would that be like do you think? Housebroke? started training yet? Will he be expensive?

stirder

07-12-2005, 02:05 PM

probably housebroke, if he was raised in the house. probably a tiny bit of training started such as sit, lie down. expensive depends on the breeding, but since at 3 months a dog wont have the training of a 6 month or even a year old dog, shouldnt be too expensive.

Fran27

07-12-2005, 02:15 PM

It totally depends where you get him from. At 3 months...

If you get him from a responsible breeder, he will have started housetraining and training, as well as socializing. Expensive.

If you get him from a non so responsible breeder, he won't be housetrained nor trained, and he will have missed his most important socialization window and might have problems later on. Expensive.

If you get him from a shelter, same as number 2, because if he ended up there it's because he was too much work for the owners. Cheap.

If you get him from a rescue, especially a foster, he should know the basic commands, and be 'partly' housetrained. Cheap.

In all cases, rescues and shelters will be cheaper, but they might not be as well trained as you would do yourself with a puppy. It's ok though, you can train them, it might just be a bit harder. But you will avoid the puppy age, which is pretty difficult and hard sometimes (well not at 3 months, you will still be in it). Some rescues do a wonderful job and really take the time to train the dogs they get before placing them. In this case, an older dog (2-5 years) might be a good idea for you.

I think all in all, it depends on whether you want to train your dog yourself or not, and if you want to have a puppy or an older dog. But older dogs won't necessarily be trained either, so you need to make sure you ask lots of questions before you get your dog.

stirder

07-12-2005, 02:17 PM

if you go through rinus you can get a dog of any age, 3 months it will be housetrained and started on obedience. price will depend on bloodlines mostly.

wolfdoggy

07-12-2005, 02:23 PM

When should I start to train him if I get him as a 9 week old? When should be his first day at the trainer club or whatever these places are called, where they do agility training and such?

On this I'm hopeless. I have no idea what these places are called, what you do in them, when to start, and if there are several clubs I should be in. Is it called Puppy school?

Fran27

07-12-2005, 02:50 PM

It's ok, everyone has to learn sometime :)

Start training as soon as he gets home. 15 minutes a day, and repeatedly when you can, work on sit/stay/come etc. You can buy a book about puppies or check Internet for some tips, but I think it's very important to start as soon as possible. I got Tips at 8 weeks, taught him sit the first day, now I make him sit all the time. When he was running to me and I had treats in my hands, I was just saying 'come' and gave him the treats. It took no time for him to get it too. I'm working on stay, it's a bit harder, but I can see him hesitate, so he's learning :) Just keep it fun, praise a lot and give lots of treats. Same with housetraining, start as soon as he gets home.

Take him to puppy classes if you can as soon as he got his full sets of shots (3-4 months). Even if he knows the commands, it will be wonderful for his socialization, and to learn to focus when distracted. You can look for clubs, or just go to petsmart or petco. You might not learn much, but it will be very fun for you and the puppy and it will help him get used to other dogs and people.

Just remember to be careful and only take him to places where you know no potentially sick dog may walk, until he has all his shots. Don't let him walk in the street, don't take him to petstores, or the park. He will get sick if he is in contact with a virus before he has got his full shots. It's recommended to wait one or two weeks after the last set before letting them go out.

wolfdoggy

07-12-2005, 03:01 PM

BigDog2191

07-12-2005, 03:05 PM

3 months he might be house trained by an expert. But Rocky was reliable when he was nearly 6 months.

Fran27

07-12-2005, 03:13 PM

How will I socialize him with other dogs before he becomes 3 months old, when I don't know which dogs carries a virus? Should he just stay at home, in the backyard and in the house, before getting the last shots?

It's a very hard one :( If you don't know anyone with dogs that you know have their shots up to date, it's hard. I took Tips to petsmart twice, but he stayed in my arms the whole time, and it wouldn't be quite possible with a GSD. I'm a bit lucky because he got to meet tons of dogs and other people at the rescue before I got him, but yes for now I don't know anyone with dogs so I just keep him in the house and in the backyard with me, although he got a few car rides as well.

I wasn't that careful with Boris because I didn't know better, and he was fine, but I know that other puppies from the rescue got sick the week after I got Tips, so I'm really paranoid now.

Hopefully someone else will post and give another opinion.

And I agree with Bigdog, unless people watch their dogs 24 hours a day, most dogs won't be reliably housetrained before 6 months, sometimes more.

stirder

07-12-2005, 03:15 PM

I totally agree with fran.
for socializing join a puppy class. Im assuming they have them in denmark. they should all be fine, should be part of the agreement when you join that puppy has shots.
as for which clubs to join...do you want to train him in anything besides obedience? if you want to herd, join a herding club, or schutzhund, or agility, flyball, ring, whatever you want to do with him. you dont have to be in a club to have a gsd. but if you want to breed him and do it responsibly you will want to get some titles in something. plus its a lot of fun for you and the dog to compete in something.

stirder

07-12-2005, 03:17 PM

and if you get a 3 month old, or 6 or 12 or whatever, most likely it will have already been socialized with all the other dogs at its kennel/home.

Fran27

07-12-2005, 03:17 PM

Oh doh you're in Denmark, not sure how it works but I'm sure it's about the same over there.

wolfdoggy

07-12-2005, 04:03 PM

I guess I can work all this out with Dansk Kennel Klub. What is these organisations called in America?

I think Herding sounds like a lot of fun. But so does Agility and the others. I don't know what to choose. So did I understand right when saying no club membership before 3 months old?

BigDog2191

07-12-2005, 04:04 PM

I'd love to do Schutzhund. But lack of money doesn't allow it.

stirder

07-12-2005, 04:04 PM

ummm, probably not. I would contact the kennel club to find out what areas of training are available near you, for a 3 month old dog.

stirder

07-12-2005, 04:07 PM

it will depend on the club. most of them will require that all dogs be up to date on shots. and atleast some schutzhund clubs do start dogs at 3 months, but 5-6 months is more common. at that age they play tug of war with a peice of burlap. but Id check with your local registry and ask what is available. then contact the director of the club, and tell them how old your dog is, what shots he/she has had, etc.

wolfdoggy

07-12-2005, 04:16 PM

At what age do you think would be best for him, to start on his first backpacker trip? Is 3-6 months too early?

stirder

07-12-2005, 04:18 PM

too early to have anything of any real weight in the packs, but a good age to get him used to wearing it. and plan for short walks because his joints arent done growing. gradually make the wlaks longer.

wolfdoggy

07-12-2005, 04:33 PM

Then what age would you suggest would be good for his first real trip?

wolfdoggy

07-12-2005, 07:08 PM

Ahmmm. That last question was quite stupid. Just never mind,

stirder

07-12-2005, 07:24 PM

lol, no question is stupid, as long as it is sincere and you learn something by asking it.
start walking him the day you get him. plan for short walk/hikes (1/2 mile?), and turn around before he/she gets tired. gradually make the walks longer. say first week or two, maybe 3 go 1/2 mile. next coulpe weeks go 3/4 mile. get him used to a back pack but remember, he wont stop growing untill he is between 12 and 24 months. after 12 months theres some growing but usually not noticable. walk him around with an empty pack, maybe let him wear it for a half hour or so in the house too now and then. once hes fully grown he should be used to the pack enough and obedience trained enough that you can put some of his food into his packs and go camping or hiking. as to how far to hike at a time...you will be able to tell from your previous walks and hikes. if the farthest he has ever gone round trip is 4 miles and he was worn out, dont expect him to go 6 miles on a hiking trip. remember not to have him carry water, and to keep his packs evenly filled. (this isnt the max he can carry, or how much he will eat, just an example) if you start with 2 pounds of food on on side, and 2 pounds of the other. then you stop to camp for the night and feed him one pound from one side. take 1/2 a pound out of the other side, and put it back into the side you just fed him from. if the packs get uneven they will rub and cause wounds, similar to rope burn.