Need help on deciding between Retrievers

[Jason]

Hi all, first post here. Anyway, my wife and I (no kids yet; 1-2 yrs away) are looking for our first dog. We both had dogs growing up and now it's time for our own. We have narrowed down our breed choices to one of three Retrievers:

1. Golden
2. Flat-Coated
3. Labradoodle

I have researched these breeds to death and am very familiar with their attributes "on paper". What I'd appreciate hearing is some feedback on some of your real-world experiences. I can't find much on FCR's or Labradoodles. I listed a FCR because I've read it may shed less and is a better watchdog. I listed a Labradoodle for it's retriever tendencies, good looks, and not shedding.

Thanks for your responses.

[k9lover2005]

I would go for a golden retriever, theyre the best of those three

[Jason]

What is your experience?

[Saje]

Well, labradoodles isn't a breed and if you get one of those from a breeder they're pretty much guaranteed to be shady. I'd steer far away from them unless you get a real mutt from a shelter.

I've never owned a retriever though so I can't say between the other two

[Jason]

Well, labradoodles isn't a breed and if you get one of those from a breeder they're pretty much guaranteed to be shady. I'd steer far away from them unless you get a real mutt from a shelter.

Actually, I think you got it backwards on the breeder/shelter thing. Check this out:

www.teganpark.com

My neighbor bought one from them and it's a beautiful dog.

[sparks19]

yeah Labradoodles are the big craze now. My uncle has one and she is the sweetest thing and great with their 4 kids and very smart.

[Jason]

yeah Labradoodles are the big craze now. My uncle has one and she is the sweetest thing and great with their 4 kids and very smart.
Aside from the different look and shedding, is she much different from a Golden or Lab?

[Saje]

Well, what organization are they recognized by?

[sparks19]

I haven't spent A LOT of time with her but from what i can tell she's a typical retriever lol. She is good natured, very sweet but LOVES to play but she is also very gentle with the smaller kids.

[Jason]

Well, what organization are they recognized by? I can't find any because they're not. But I'm much more inclined to trust a dog direct from a breeder as opposed to a shelter. A Labradoodle is a mix. Therefore, it is bred. From a breeder. Some using reputable, quality dogs, and others not. I just have to find the right breeder.

[Weluvgoldens]

they had a labradoodle in our paper and its selling for $800 -- Just my opinion, but I'm not going to pay that much for a mix "breed" dog. To tell you the truth, I think its just another mix breed that shouldnt have been made...same goes for the goldendoodle or whatever they call it...

[Fran27]

Actually, I think you got it backwards on the breeder/shelter thing. Check this out:

www.teganpark.com

My neighbor bought one from them and it's a beautiful dog.


I would be careful of such a site. Mostly, they seem to be breeding labradoodles with labradoodles and it makes me scream. If you really want one, find a breeder that has labradors and poodles with pedigrees that they reproduce. At least you will be less likely to have a puppy with health issues. They are even making up a standard that doesn't exist.

In any case, I would get a lab or golden, and not such a mix. I prefer golden retrievers personally, mostly because they are crazy, but still less than labs.

[gaddylovesdogs]

Jason, there is no such think as a "labradoodle" a "labradoodle" is a labrador retriever/standard poodle mix. Anyone who breeds these dogs is just in it for the money. Please read this site www.stoppuppymills.org. Why do you want a "labradoodle"? There is no such thing as hypoallergenic and nonshedding. All dogs shed A LITTLE. And I guarantee that a lab mix will at least shed a bit :rolleyes:. Anyone claiming that their dogs come from "champion lines" are just buloni. They can lie all they want to get your business.

[gaddylovesdogs]

Hi all, first post here. Anyway, my wife and I (no kids yet; 1-2 yrs away) are looking for our first dog. We both had dogs growing up and now it's time for our own. We have narrowed down our breed choices to one of three Retrievers:

1. Golden
2. Flat-Coated
3. Labradoodle

I have researched these breeds to death and am very familiar with their attributes "on paper". What I'd appreciate hearing is some feedback on some of your real-world experiences. I can't find much on FCR's or Labradoodles. I listed a FCR because I've read it may shed less and is a better watchdog. I listed a Labradoodle for it's retriever tendencies, good looks, and not shedding.

Thanks for your responses.

Jason, Please Ask Yourself....

How much time do I have to exercise a pet every day? [a border collie wouldn't work for someone who can walk the dog for only a few minutes every day. Pets also need mental stimulation!]

How much time do I have to groom a pet every day? [a lab would not work for someone who cannot groom at least monthly]

How much time do I have to clean up after a pet every day? [puppies and kittens make lots of mess! Certain breeds do, too!]

How much time do I have to train a pet every day? [all pets need to be trained, some more than other, and some breeds more than others too. Terrier dogs need lots of training to be well-behaved]

How much money can I spend on veterinary care every year? [for three dogs, my family spends $4,000 to $5,000 a year. The cost of veterinary care is usually based on the supplies used and time spent. Veterinary care for your chihuahua can and probably will cost as much as veterinary care for your friend's great dane]

How much money can I spend on general supplies (toys, leashes and collars, etc.) every few months? [puppies and kittens need lots of toys to play with. Collars and identification tags are important for boths cats and dogs, and dogs should be exercised daily]

How much money can I spend on food every month? [it can cost often over $50]

Can I enroll in a training class? [training classes are a good idea for certain breeds of dogs and they're good for socializing puppies]

How many hours would the pet be spending alone every day? [don't leave your pet alone for long periods of time!

If more than 6-8 hours, can I hire someone to walk the dog or feed the cat? [you could hire a trustworthy neighborhood kid to walk Fido while you work, or to feed Kitty when you're out late]

Do I travel frequently? [pets and frequent travelers most often do not mix]

Are there any young children around? [certain breeds like terrier dogs are generally not good with small children]

Are there other pets? [always introduce pets on neutral territory, and know your pets. For example, pit bulls are dog aggressive and cannot be left unsupervised with other animals]

Are there elderly humans around? [hyper animals and elderly people are usually not good matches]

[gaddylovesdogs]

I have a purebred labrador and here is what I have found in the eight or so years that we've had her (mind you this wonderful baby is a rescue!! :D)
They shed....A LOT.

They absolutely HATE being left alone - many retrievers have SA (Seperation Anxiety)
They require LOTS of exercise
They are good with kids, but should be supervised at ALL TIMES.
They are willing to please, that is what they live for, and they are food-motivated, so they are generally easily trained, but they CAN be stubborn.
They absolutely STINK as watchdogs.

[Jason]

Jason, there is no such think as a "labradoodle" a "labradoodle" is a labrador retriever/standard poodle mix. Anyone who breeds these dogs is just in it for the money. Please read this site www.stoppuppymills.org.
I think it's irresponsible of you to generalize in this way. You're essentially deeming that all breeders of Labradoodles are corrupt and greedy. Is it not possible that some breeders of Labradoodles love dogs and treat them well? Aren't all breeders essentially in it for the money? I think we can all agree that "puppy mills" are a terrible thing. But that is a far cry from the Labradoodle breeder I'd do business with.
Why do you want a "labradoodle"? There is no such thing as hypoallergenic and nonshedding. All dogs shed A LITTLE. And I guarantee that a lab mix will at least shed a bit :rolleyes:. All dogs definitely shed and I don't see anyone making claims to the contrary. But I guarantee that this mix will shed less than a purebred Retriever.

[Babyblue5290]

Aren't all breeders essentially in it for the money?


NO not any good reputable breeders are in it for the money.....they barely break even if they are lucky.

[Jason]

I have a purebred labrador and here is what I have found in the eight or so years that we've had her (mind you this wonderful baby is a rescue!! :D)
They shed....A LOT.

They absolutely HATE being left alone - many retrievers have SA (Seperation Anxiety)
They require LOTS of exercise
They are good with kids, but should be supervised at ALL TIMES.
They are willing to please, that is what they live for, and they are food-motivated, so they are generally easily trained, but they CAN be stubborn.
They absolutely STINK as watchdogs.
I'm hoping to find a Retriever that sheds a little bit less and might make a better watchdog. You're right about a lab. A terrific dog, but probably not for us. That's why I listed a FCR and a Labradoodle.

[gaddylovesdogs]

think it's irresponsible of you to generalize in this way. You're essentially deeming that all breeders of Labradoodles are corrupt and greedy. Is it not possible that some breeders of Labradoodles love dogs and treat them well?
The truth is, basically all crossbreed breeders ARE irresponsible there's a rare reputable one in the bunch. I'm not saying that all crossbreed breeders don't treat their dogs right, but I am saying that many and most of them really just want money.

Aren't all breeders essentially in it for the money? I think we can all agree that "puppy mills" are a terrible thing. But that is a far cry from the Labradoodle breeder I'd do business with.
No, not all breeders are in it for the money. I know a reputable bulldog breeder. She has a second job besides showing her bullies and breeding them, because she does lots of health tests before breeding her dogs (which often cost a lot of money) and bullies often need c-sections. She only breeds her dogs if they are healthy and have won titles, and she breeds only every few years. She has a waiting list of approved buyers so all her puppies go to experienced, good homes.

[gaddylovesdogs]

I'm hoping to find a Retriever that sheds a little bit less and might make a better watchdog. You're right about a lab. A terrific dog, but probably not for us. That's why I listed a FCR and a Labradoodle.
Retrievers simply stink as watchdogs, and they simply shed, no matter what you try to do.

[gaddylovesdogs]

And BTW, that list is for all retrievers.

[Jason]

And BTW, that list is for all retrievers.
Do you know anything about a FCR? On some web sites they listed that it is a slightly better watchdog. I don't know if this is true or not, but it seems that nobody really knows anything about this breed.

[gaddylovesdogs]

While they may be a slightly better watchdog, retrievers weren't meant to be watchdogs, therefore they aren't too great at it.

[gaddylovesdogs]

Jason, Please Ask Yourself....

How much time do I have to exercise a pet every day? [a border collie wouldn't work for someone who can walk the dog for only a few minutes every day. Pets also need mental stimulation!]

How much time do I have to groom a pet every day? [a lab would not work for someone who cannot groom at least monthly]

How much time do I have to clean up after a pet every day? [puppies and kittens make lots of mess! Certain breeds do, too!]

How much time do I have to train a pet every day? [all pets need to be trained, some more than other, and some breeds more than others too. Terrier dogs need lots of training to be well-behaved]

How much money can I spend on veterinary care every year? [for three dogs, my family spends $4,000 to $5,000 a year. The cost of veterinary care is usually based on the supplies used and time spent. Veterinary care for your chihuahua can and probably will cost as much as veterinary care for your friend's great dane]

How much money can I spend on general supplies (toys, leashes and collars, etc.) every few months? [puppies and kittens need lots of toys to play with. Collars and identification tags are important for boths cats and dogs, and dogs should be exercised daily]

How much money can I spend on food every month? [it can cost often over $50]

Can I enroll in a training class? [training classes are a good idea for certain breeds of dogs and they're good for socializing puppies]

How many hours would the pet be spending alone every day? [don't leave your pet alone for long periods of time!

If more than 6-8 hours, can I hire someone to walk the dog or feed the cat? [you could hire a trustworthy neighborhood kid to walk Fido while you work, or to feed Kitty when you're out late]

Do I travel frequently? [pets and frequent travelers most often do not mix]

Are there any young children around? [certain breeds like terrier dogs are generally not good with small children]

Are there other pets? [always introduce pets on neutral territory, and know your pets. For example, pit bulls are dog aggressive and cannot be left unsupervised with other animals]

Are there elderly humans around? [hyper animals and elderly people are usually not good matches]

Please post your answers to these questions. :)

[gaddylovesdogs]

Here is a breed description for the Flat-Coated Retriever from another site.

BREED DESCRIPTION

Credit for development of the Flat-Coated Retriever is given to a sportsman, S.E. Shirley, whose other noteworthy accomplishment was the founding of The Kennel Club (England) in 1873. How the Flat-Coat was developed is unclear, but it is thought that the breed is a mixture of various sporting breeds combined with Collie breeding to give added working ability and a straighter coat. Until World War I, this was among the most popular of show dogs in Britain, as well as a favorite in the field. Since then, both the Labrador and Golden Retrievers have surpassed the Flat-Coat in popularity, but the breed retains a loyal following. Fanciers value the Flat-Coat as much for its working ability as for its handsome appearance. The breed is upstanding and balanced but not extreme in any feature. Weight ranges from 60 to 70 pounds. The coat is dense, fine, glossy, as flat as possible and resilient to the touch. The occasional bath and frequent brushing keep it in condition. The Flat-Coat is loyal, protective, affectionate and good with children. It adapts well to city or country living, provided it gets lots of outdoor activity.


And from another site...

Temperament
Character is a primary and outstanding asset of the Flat-Coat. He is a responsive, loving member of the family, a versatile working dog, multi-talented, sensible, bright and tractable. In competition the Flat-Coat demonstrates stability- and a desire to please with a confident, happy and outgoing attitude characterized by a wagging tail. Nervous, hyperactive, apathetic, shy or obstinate behavior is undesirable. Severe Fault-Unprovoked aggressive behavior toward people or animals is totally- unacceptable.

[gaddylovesdogs]

I don't know where you are, but I went to www.petfinder.com typed in "Standard Poodle" and found this lab/poodle mix, Mia, in California
http://www.petfinder.com/fotos/CA813/CA813.4215361-1-x.jpg

[Jason]

Jason, Please Ask Yourself....

How much time do I have to exercise a pet every day? [a border collie wouldn't work for someone who can walk the dog for only a few minutes every day. Pets also need mental stimulation!] I would say 30-60 minutes daily between myself, my wife, a dog-walker, and day care.

How much time do I have to groom a pet every day? [a lab would not work for someone who cannot groom at least monthly] We could do about 10 minutes about five times a week. But if more was necessary we'd do it.

How much time do I have to clean up after a pet every day? [puppies and kittens make lots of mess! Certain breeds do, too!] As much as needed.

How much time do I have to train a pet every day? [all pets need to be trained, some more than other, and some breeds more than others too. Terrier dogs need lots of training to be well-behaved] We'd take the puppy to obedience classes and whatever else was necessary on the side. We'd talk to the instructor about this.

How much money can I spend on veterinary care every year? [for three dogs, my family spends $4,000 to $5,000 a year. The cost of veterinary care is usually based on the supplies used and time spent. Veterinary care for your chihuahua can and probably will cost as much as veterinary care for your friend's great dane] Whatever it takes for a healty, happy, and loving dog.

How much money can I spend on general supplies (toys, leashes and collars, etc.) every few months? [puppies and kittens need lots of toys to play with. Collars and identification tags are important for boths cats and dogs, and dogs should be exercised daily] This dog will be spoiled rotten. Remember, we don't have kids yet.

How much money can I spend on food every month? [it can cost often over $50] Whatever it takes to feed the dog as perfect a diet as possible.

Can I enroll in a training class? [training classes are a good idea for certain breeds of dogs and they're good for socializing puppies] Definitely. Already have the names of some good trainers.

How many hours would the pet be spending alone every day? [don't leave your pet alone for long periods of time!] I would say about two or three days a week, the dog would be left alone for about eight to ten hours.

If more than 6-8 hours, can I hire someone to walk the dog or feed the cat? [you could hire a trustworthy neighborhood kid to walk Fido while you work, or to feed Kitty when you're out late] I would never just leave the dog home alone for that period of time. We'll probably take him to doggie day care starting at the appropriate age, but until then we'll have a professional dog walker twice a day.

Do I travel frequently? [pets and frequent travelers most often do not mix] We do and that's a bummer. We'll just have to travel less.

Are there any young children around? [certain breeds like terrier dogs are generally not good with small children] Children in 1-2 years.

Are there other pets? [always introduce pets on neutral territory, and know your pets. For example, pit bulls are dog aggressive and cannot be left unsupervised with other animals] None

Are there elderly humans around? [hyper animals and elderly people are usually not good matches]None I thought I just needed to ask myself? :)

[Fran27]

I think it's irresponsible of you to generalize in this way. You're essentially deeming that all breeders of Labradoodles are corrupt and greedy. Is it not possible that some breeders of Labradoodles love dogs and treat them well? Aren't all breeders essentially in it for the money? I think we can all agree that "puppy mills" are a terrible thing. But that is a far cry from the Labradoodle breeder I'd do business with.
All dogs definitely shed and I don't see anyone making claims to the contrary. But I guarantee that this mix will shed less than a purebred Retriever.

Obviously you didn't read my post, the breeder you mentionned is anything but responsible. He breeds labradoodles to make more labradoodles, and of course there is no way of knowing that the parents have no health problem - obviously they haven't done any tests.

So, as I said, if you want a labradoodle, get one from someone who will have done tests on both parents at least.

For golden retrievers - they shed a lot, hate being alone, and are not so good at watchdogs - although Boris will bark if someone goes next to the yard or is at the front door.

I'd like to add that you seem like a responsible owner though, just make sure you get your dog from a good place.

[gaddylovesdogs]

Jason, thanks for answering the questions!! You seem like a pretty responsible person. However, could you answer these questions more specifically?

How much time do I have to clean up after a pet every day? [puppies and kittens make lots of mess! Certain breeds do, too!]

How much money can I spend on veterinary care every year? [for three dogs, my family spends $4,000 to $5,000 a year. The cost of veterinary care is usually based on the supplies used and time spent. Veterinary care for your chihuahua can and probably will cost as much as veterinary care for your friend's great dane]

How much money can I spend on general supplies (toys, leashes and collars, etc.) every few months? [puppies and kittens need lots of toys to play with. Collars and identification tags are important for boths cats and dogs, and dogs should be exercised daily]

How much money can I spend on food every month? [it can cost often over $50]

I suggest you check out your local shelter and search www.petfinder.com. Rescuing a dog is one of the best things you can do, with 5 million dogs being euthanized in American shelters every year.

[Jason]

Jason, thanks for answering the questions!! You seem like a pretty responsible person. However, could you answer these questions more specifically?

How much time do I have to clean up after a pet every day? [puppies and kittens make lots of mess! Certain breeds do, too!]

How much money can I spend on veterinary care every year? [for three dogs, my family spends $4,000 to $5,000 a year. The cost of veterinary care is usually based on the supplies used and time spent. Veterinary care for your chihuahua can and probably will cost as much as veterinary care for your friend's great dane]

How much money can I spend on general supplies (toys, leashes and collars, etc.) every few months? [puppies and kittens need lots of toys to play with. Collars and identification tags are important for boths cats and dogs, and dogs should be exercised daily]

How much money can I spend on food every month? [it can cost often over $50]

I suggest you check out your local shelter and search www.petfinder.com. Rescuing a dog is one of the best things you can do, with 5 million dogs being euthanized in American shelters every year.Are you for real?

[Jason]

Obviously you didn't read my post, the breeder you mentionned is anything but responsible. He breeds labradoodles to make more labradoodles, and of course there is no way of knowing that the parents have no health problem - obviously they haven't done any tests.

So, as I said, if you want a labradoodle, get one from someone who will have done tests on both parents at least.Obviously, you didn't read that web site. I don't always believe what I read but I have a good vibe about them, especially considering my neighbor bought one from them.

I'd like to add that you seem like a responsible owner though, just make sure you get your dog from a good place.Thank you, I appreciate your kind words. :)

[Fran27]

I did read the site. My first bad impression is that they are breeding mutts and act as if they were purebred. My main bad impression is that nowhere do they mention that the parents have had any tests done. Sure, they are cute and correspond to their standard, but it doesn't mean that they are healthy. Finally, with so many dogs, it's more a dog factory than anything else. They don't have time to give the proper attention and socialization that then puppies require.

[gaddylovesdogs]

I'm asking that you reanswer those few questions because your answers were very simple and didn't really explain.

[Fran27]

I'm taking his side there though. I would myself have a really hard time putting a number on how much I can pay every month for food, toys etc.

[gaddylovesdogs]

His answers simply didn't give enough information. Retrievers are a medium-large breed, and even with a high-quality brand eat quite a bit every day.

[bubbatd]

Jason.....I would go the Golden route...through rescue ( you see what you get) or through a very reputable breeder who has history of both lines and has done all the testing.

[sparks19]

Well I have to stick with Jason on this one. There is nothing wrong with the lab poodle cross and i agree that you have to watch who you get it from BUT they can be great dogs JUST like any other mixed breed. My uncles girl is wonderful and fits right into their family situation

Jason if you have done your research on the breeds and have asked yourself the questions that gaddy posted then you do what you gotta do man. As long as you realize that you are getting into a long term commitment here that can't just be undone. As long as you know you can take care of this dogs every need then you don't really need to explain yourself to others.

I also agree that rescuing a shelter dog is a great idea but you have to watch the shelters too. we were going to get a puppy from a shelter and they were going to have him neutered at 8 weeks old. well that doesn't fly with me so i said no that i would get my own dog and have him neutered when he was the appropraite age. I just can't see how THAT is in the puppies best interest. I was a little angry at that whole situation. No way should an 8 week old puppy be neutered or spayed.

But like i said before as long as you have done your research and know what it will take to care for whatever dog you choose then you do your thing. Just for the record though Labradoodles do shed less and have less dander so they ARE less likely to cause problems with allergies. My brother has really bad allergies and he is fine with that dog. Good luck on finding your perfect pet :D

[gaddylovesdogs]

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with mixed breeds - I own two mixed breeds myself - but there is something wrong with purchasing one from a "breeder". My two wonderful mixes are rescues, and they're two of the best dogs I've met.

[Fran27]

Yes, nothing against mixes, I also think that the labradoodles of that site are pretty cool... It's just that asking the price of a pure bred dog for a mutt is a bit much.

[sparks19]

Oh i agree that no way should that dog cost 800 bucks thats nuts. specially when my beloved mutt cost us $50 and he is the most wonderful dog in the whole world (well in my world anyway) lol

I think mutts are better than purebreds because you are pretty much guaranteed that your dog is going to be original and isn't going to look just like anyone elses mutt

hooray for mutts :D

[BigDog2191]

I have to stick with Jason on this one as well. Labradoodles have been pretty popular as of late. I see this breed becoming one of it's own VERY soon. And you don't know how well this guy takes care of the Labradoodles... he could be better than most of the normal pure-bred dog breeders.

And if his neighbor has one then Jason has seen it and therefore knows how it acts. If he was aggressive, had terrible behavior, or always acted angrily toward Jason, do you really think he'd be that dumb as to buy it?

There are a lot of mixes that I wouldn't mind seeing become a breed of it's own... one that comes to mind is a Rottweiler/GSD mix... I saw one and thought it was quite beautiful...

I don't believe Jason's in the wrong.

[gaddylovesdogs]

The problem is that 99% of these doodle and poo breeds are irresponsible. They have 0% interest interest in having these dogs accepted by the AKC as a breed other than for the fact that it'd be nice to be able to list their dogs as AKC registered because many people view AKC registered as valuable, healthy, and well behaved.

[gaddylovesdogs]

Oh, and just as a note...Jason isn't a breeder, that site is where he is thinking of purchasing from.

[Jason]

I did read the site.No, I don't think you did. I think you just saw the home page. It's hard to find the link to the site but it's there. Try www.labradoodle.com. It's got to be the most informative site on the web for labradoodles. It talk about everything including diet, conditions, and GENETIC TESTING. Let me know if I'm still mistaken.

Again, just because they write it doesn't make it so, but at least they know what they're talking about.

[gaddylovesdogs]

Jason, what do you have against rescuing one of these dogs?

[Jason]

I'm asking that you reanswer those few questions because your answers were very simple and didn't really explain.
My answers were simple because I don't feel I need to talk about money. But if you must know, my wife and I have a very nice household income. As far as our dog goes, money is no object when it comes to the best health care, diet, toys, training, and day care. I'm prepared to spend whatever it takes for a wonderful, well adjusted dog. Ya dig?

[sparks19]

I do have to say that Jason doesn't seem like an idiot or a total moron. He did say he has been doing a lot of research. I think that is more than most people do when they go get a dog. I mean at least he is making an effort to get a dog that suits his lifestyle.

i think everyone is being a little to hard on Jason. I'm sure he is a very smart and responsible person.

I think you should give the guy a little credit and not just assume that he is stupid and doesn't know what he is doing.

[gaddylovesdogs]

I am NOT assuming he is stupid, I asked him to reanswer the questions because his answers did not give me enough information to understand if a dog would be suitable for him.

[sparks19]

but in all honesty its not your place to decide if a dog is suitable for him. he has done the research and he believes that he will be able to care for the dog in every way that is needed. I agree with him for not wanting to discuss his financial situation with you. That is really not your business and I hope he wasn't offended that you asked him. It seems that he feels the need to defend himself here and he should not have to feel that way.

[gaddylovesdogs]

I'm not asking him to, I simply want to know if he is capable of feeding the dog a high-quality food, bringing the dog to regular vet visits, and bringing the dog to a reputable professional trainer.

[Jason]

I'm not asking him to, I simply want to know if he is capable of feeding the dog a high-quality food, bringing the dog to regular vet visits, and bringing the dog to a reputable professional trainer.Did you see my previous answer and does it satisfy you?

It's funny, I DO feel like I have to defend myself here. All I asked was about real-world experiences with some of the breeds ( I know labradoodle is not an official breed) I listed. Very few of you have really said anything to that end.

As far as my level of knowledge goes, I'm sure most of you know more than me. But I have done a tremendous amount of research and I'm sure I know much more than the average guy. Would I have even found this site if I didn't care?

Also, I'm not a total moron. ;)

[BigDog2191]

I'm not asking him to, I simply want to know if he is capable of feeding the dog a high-quality food, bringing the dog to regular vet visits, and bringing the dog to a reputable professional trainer.

Listen, what might be good dog-food to you will not be good dog-food to someone else. Just cause everyone else says Innova is the best does not mean I will feed my dog that.

And I feed my dog Natural Choice, it's the only decent food that I can afford. I would not give my dog away because I can't feed him the best of the best food... I mean, you wouldn't believe how many people in the U.S. feed Ol' Roy.

BTW, I knew that was the site that he was intending on buying the breed from. I don't see a problem with it...

[sparks19]

Right you want to know if he can AFFORD it. rewording it doesn't make it any different. You might not be trying to come across this way but you are. You are being very condescending towards him and by the way he is being defensive i would guess that he is feeling the same way. You don't have to make tons of money to give a dog a loving home. I don't even work just my husband does and our dog is healthy, happy and for being 10 months old VERY well behaved. He really should not have to explain his financial state with you. if he says they make enough then you should just leave it at that because in all honesty its not your business. I'm sorry if I am coming across as being condescending but i think you are being a little harsh with Jason and even if you don't think you are treating him like he is clueless the truth is you are.

I apologize for any raucous i may have caused.

ps- I also do not feed my dog innova. IN FACT I spoke with my vet about what to feed my dog and Innova was not one of the ones he even brought up. So Innova is not the be all and end all of good dog food.

[gaddylovesdogs]

Jason, I don't think you're stupid. You seem like you have researched quite a bit and are a responsible person. I am just trying to guide you away from purchasing a "labradoodle" from a breeder because there are way too many irresponsible "labradoodle breeders" out there. If you want one of these dogs, why not check out a shelter?

BigDog, I'm not saying he has to feed something like Innova - I don't even feed my dogs that, we get a different brand that is more readily available and costs less, but is still good quality. I don't mind if someone isn't feeding their dog something like Innova or California Natural, because it's not possible for everyone to feed that kind of food.

[gaddylovesdogs]

sparks, I'm not saying you have to be a millionaire to own a dog. My family isn't rich, yet we own three medium/large dogs. Why I am saying is that if you have very little money, adding a dog to the family isn't a good idea, because a dogs needs require money.

[BigDog2191]

This is getting kind of dumb. Lately the forum has been driving a lot of people away like this. If someone is wondering about breeding or buying a puppy from a breeder almost everybody on the forum just jumps on 'em all angrily. They bombard them with "buy from a shelter!" I mean, if they want a puppyt from a breeder, why not? That's how I got Rocky. Or if someone wants to breed we jump on them for that too. We need to just chill out and calm down. And then, answer rationally.

Because of this, Jason is getting very irritated. I wouldn't be surprised if he left the forum. I know I've been inclined to leave a few times...

[Jason]

Also, I have tax returns for the last three years if you need it for me to buy a dog. :)

[sparks19]

Jason unfortunately I myself have never own a goldie but my step mother did. his name was Trevor and he was very sweet but the poor guy had problems with seizures. He did shed A LOT lol. I didn't spend a lot of time around him though so I can't really give a review other than he was sweet and lazy lol.

[gaddylovesdogs]

Jason, I suggest that if you're really interested in a Flat-Coated Retriever, you contact the Flat-Coated Retriever Club of America.http://www.fcrsainc.org/

[aurorab]

Jason I'm also new here and it does seem like you are having to defend yourself when all you did was ask opions on 3 breeds not give me the 3rd degree, tell me that I'm wrong in my choices and make the decision form me, but that seems like what you got. If anything you did make the day a bit more exciting but I don't think that's what you wanted.
Anyway, I can't really help you w/ those breeds but You might want to go see a few breeders if that is you choice. Get to know the mom and dad and see if you like them and ask questions. They would know that breed the best.
It does sound like you a thinking about not getting the golden b/c of the shedding, but other than that it comes down to what you like and what you want and most important the dog. Any breed can have a different personality than what they say is typical of the breed. So go and look and have fun and see what fits you best.
Oh and sorry you got the 3rd degree.
Let us know what you decide on.

[Jason]

Why I am saying is that if you have very little money, adding a dog to the family isn't a good idea, because a dogs needs require money.Wow! Now I actually am offended. What about me gives you the idea I have very little money? Is it because my wife and I don't have kids? Do you think you know my age or how long I've been married? Why do you talk down to me in this way, with your judgement on my age, income and intellect? Do you not think I know a dog costs money? Would it make you feel better to know that our income is over four times the national average? I know I feel good about it.

Look, clearly your intentions are good and I know you mean no harm. But take it easy! And I don't plan on leaving the forum. I came here for knowledge and you all seem to really know your stuff.

[gaddylovesdogs]

EDIT: Sorry, I REALLY mixed up my words there.

No, no, no!! I'm not saying you have little money, I'm saying that if someone has little money, adding a dog isn't the best idea.

[Jason]

No, no, no!! I'm not saying you have little money, I'm saying that if someone has little money, adding a dog isn't the best idea.But you did make me answer to you. And your inquries coupled with your above line on "very little money" make it seem that way to me. But that's cool, water under the bridge.

[Puckstop31]

OK.... Breath everybody....

I think this is all about passion. I think it is safe to say that people here are very passionate about pets. When things like this happen on internet forums it is usually in the heat of the moment and made worse by the difficulty in projecting context when people can only use words to describe what they want to say. (Wow, Debate 101 WAS useful... LOL) The lack of being able to read a persons body language allows discussions like this to go south. I really think there was no ill intent on any party.

But, none of this should stop people from saying what they want to. When things get heated, try to remember to read your post BEFORE you click submit and try to think about how the audience will see the post considering the current context.

That is my $.05 on this. I hope this makes a little sense.

[gaddylovesdogs]

I am very sorry, I completely mixed up my words when I was typing that. That wasn't what I meant at all.

You seem like you really want to get a dog from a breeder. Why not a shelter or a rescue?

[sparks19]

well there mr puckstop you are only supposed to give your .02 cents not .05 so now you are out of the convo until your extra cents are used up. hehehe i kid i kid. I do agree with you though it is easy for things to get taken out of context when you can't see their body language.

oh well no harm no foul (is that right haha)

[Rose's Gal]

Well, I'm jumping into this disscussion late, and I bet by the time I'm done typing this out, there will be a lot more posts. lol But anyways...

Why do you have your heart set on a Retriever of some type? Just courious. If you wanted a dog that is good with kids, there are lots of breeds that are.

Anyways, from what you are saying (forgive me...I've only read a couple posts...well, ok, actually, I read a couple, and skimmed through the rest. lol) a Curly-Coated Retriever comes to mind. They shed less than an average Lab (they still shed, but less), and they are a pretty good watchdog/guard dog.
(Oh, and BTW, pretty much all dogs are watchdogs. A watchdog barks when someone approaches the house and nothing more. A guard dog, barks, and then will back up that bark with a bite if necessary.)
Here is some info on them:
Curly Coated Retreiver info (http://www.yourpurebredpuppy.com/reviews/curlycoatedretrievers.html)
More Curly info (http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/curlycoatedretriever.htm)


If you just wanted a family pet, I would stay away from the Flat-coated Retrievers. They are mainly being bred for an active sport life. (Frequent hunting, agility, feildwork, tracking, whatver.)
Goldens, in my mind, are just like Labs, except that they are more "people friendly" and are more a "push button" breed then Labs are.

I'd stay away from the Labradoodles unless you were getting one from a shelter. In this case, I can almost assure you that the people that are breeding the mutts on purpose, are doing it irrisponsibly. So in this case, it isn't a matter of quality, it is a matter of who you are supporting.

If you didn't mind a more dominant, more watchful dog, I'd also suggest a Chesepeake Bay Retriever. You can find more info on them on the sites I listed above.

[Fran27]

I agree that labradoodles are probably sweet dogs. I've met one (although shortly), and she was really great. Again, if Jason wants one, I think he should probably get one, but he needs to be careful where he gets it from because they might very well have health issues.

About that site, they probably do a lot to give a good reputation to labradoodles, their dogs are beautiful, but when a breeder has so many dogs, I just can't believe that they live in good conditions. Having a huge pen is great, but what about human contact? Socialization? Maybe what they say is right and their dogs have got genetical and health testing, so the puppies might be good as well, but I will still have my doubts about the way they take care of their dogs. The puppies and moms are in cages, and I really don't think that with so many litters all the time they can take care of the puppies as they should.

Again, I have nothing against labradoodles, I just think that most of the breeders that breed them are just in for the money and don't socialize the puppies as any responsible breeder would. And I'm not sure that place is much better.

I also do not feed my dog innova. IN FACT I spoke with my vet about what to feed my dog and Innova was not one of the ones he even brought up. So Innova is not the be all and end all of good dog food.

Your vet is an idiot. No offense though, as all vets are idiots when it comes to food. I wouldn't be surprised if your vet advised science diet like mine :rolleyes: And I wouldn't be surprised either if the vets didn't even know Innova. And yes, Innova is the 'be all and end all of good dog food', just look at the ingredients, those don't lie like vets...

[sparks19]

lol my dog isn't even a watch dog lol. When someone knocks on the door he just runs to the door and cries until we open it and he can see who is there lol but he almost never barks unless he is barked at first lol

so lab/coonhound mixes are out of the question if you want a watchdog lol well at least mine is

as for the food thing, my dog gets bad gas from anything that has ANY chicken in it lol and some beef stuff so we had to put him on a lamb and rice diet. but now he is fine he still has gas sometimes like when he is sleeping under my feet and has no control over it haha.

[Rose's Gal]

Oh, and if the dog is going to be around kids, sometimes a Lab or any other Retriever and toddlers don't mix. Not that the dogs don't like the kids, they are just a little bit to hyper around them. (As puppies anyway.)
I remember when Blackie was a pup...he'd knock myself and my older brother over (I was around 5 and Jacob was around 7 or 8), and he'd tackle Wesley and JeanAnne (Both around 2) so much, they were afraid to go near him!
So if you are planning on having kids, or the dog is going to be around young kids, I'd suggest adopting an older ( 4yrs maybe) Lab or Retriever from a shelter. Or even a younger one that has allready proven that he isn't hyper like Labs/Retrievers normally are. :)

[Rose's Gal]

I didn't know we were talking about dog food, but I feed both of mine Chicken Soup for the Dog lover's soul. I find it a very good food. :)

[Fran27]

I wouldnt worry for the kids, by the time they are there the dog should be older if they get a puppy now. I know my 6 year old nephew is scared to death of Boris lol! I'm working on getting kids, but i'm not worried because Boris should be calmer by the time I have them.

[Jason]

No, I don't think you did. I think you just saw the home page. It's hard to find the link to the site but it's there. Try www.labradoodle.com. It's got to be the most informative site on the web for labradoodles. It talk about everything including diet, conditions, and GENETIC TESTING. Let me know if I'm still mistaken.

Again, just because they write it doesn't make it so, but at least they know what they're talking about.
I'm sorry, I meant for you to try this address:

http://www.labradoodle.com/doodle_adoption.html

[Fran27]

I saw it after I posted. It still doesn't change the fact that for me it's a dog factory and they probably don't socialize the puppies as they should, because they have way too many litters all the time.

[gaddylovesdogs]

Well, I'm jumping into this disscussion late, and I bet by the time I'm done typing this out, there will be a lot more posts. lol But anyways...

Why do you have your heart set on a Retriever of some type? Just courious. If you wanted a dog that is good with kids, there are lots of breeds that are.

Anyways, from what you are saying (forgive me...I've only read a couple posts...well, ok, actually, I read a couple, and skimmed through the rest. lol) a Curly-Coated Retriever comes to mind. They shed less than an average Lab (they still shed, but less), and they are a pretty good watchdog/guard dog.
(Oh, and BTW, pretty much all dogs are watchdogs. A watchdog barks when someone approaches the house and nothing more. A guard dog, barks, and then will back up that bark with a bite if necessary.)
Here is some info on them:
Curly Coated Retreiver info (http://www.yourpurebredpuppy.com/reviews/curlycoatedretrievers.html)
More Curly info (http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/curlycoatedretriever.htm)


If you just wanted a family pet, I would stay away from the Flat-coated Retrievers. They are mainly being bred for an active sport life. (Frequent hunting, agility, feildwork, tracking, whatver.)
Goldens, in my mind, are just like Labs, except that they are more "people friendly" and are more a "push button" breed then Labs are.

I'd stay away from the Labradoodles unless you were getting one from a shelter. In this case, I can almost assure you that the people that are breeding the mutts on purpose, are doing it irrisponsibly. So in this case, it isn't a matter of quality, it is a matter of who you are supporting.

If you didn't mind a more dominant, more watchful dog, I'd also suggest a Chesepeake Bay Retriever. You can find more info on them on the sites I listed above.
Very good post, Andrea!!!

[Jason]

I saw it after I posted. It still doesn't change the fact that for me it's a dog factory and they probably don't socialize the puppies as they should, because they have way too many litters all the time.
What would be considered an acceptable ratio of humans to puppies in a respectable breeder? If I do choose to buy from a breeder (likely), this is one of many questions I'll need to ask.

[EliNHunter]

The problem is that 99% of these doodle and poo breeds are irresponsible. They have 0% interest interest in having these dogs accepted by the AKC as a breed other than for the fact that it'd be nice to be able to list their dogs as AKC registered because many people view AKC registered as valuable, healthy, and well behaved.

These dogs are supposed to be crossed only ONCE -- a lab to a poodle and the puppies are a "labradoodle" and there's no further breeding. I.e. you don't breed a labradoodle to a labradoodle and get a "real" labradoodle. I hope everyone realizes that. All the fine traits associated with a labradoodle (or goldendoodle or whatever hell thing they might come up with next) is just with the FIRST cross puppies that are produced.

[EliNHunter]

Just another note. I've had both goldens and labs and they both shed just as much... in fact, the golden's hair was easier to clean up because it was longer. I know the food you feed has a HUGE impact into the coat and how they shed. Just keep that in mind, too. The breed doesn't rule the sheddiness :D

[Jason]

Just another note. I've had both goldens and labs and they both shed just as much... in fact, the golden's hair was easier to clean up because it was longer. I know the food you feed has a HUGE impact into the coat and how they shed. Just keep that in mind, too. The breed doesn't rule the sheddiness :D
Great post, thanks.

[poeluvr]

hello everyone, i read all the posts so i feel im in this convo. I am a kid so noone please bite my head off. well im 16 i know all about dogs though through volunteeering, and breeders in my family. ok i had a golden jason,they are affectionate well mine was.
mY DOG WAS GREATUMM..NOT MUCH I CAN SAY YOU PROBABLY WOULDNT already KNOW. O, SINCE YOUR EXPECTING CHILDREN, ALTHOUGH GOLDENS ARE EXCELLENT WITH KIDS YOU HAVE TO INTRODUCE THEM, AND TEACH THEM when THEY GET OLDER THEY ARE THE BOSS OVER THE DOG . oops cap locks sry. goldens have strong backgrounds like pack dogs. This happened with my dog we didnt teach my dog that mylittle brother was not someone he could step on cuz hew was smaller then him, he often nipped him. it wasnt that he wasnt social cuz he was. it was he saw my brother as a weaker pack member resulting in them never having a strong bond. i found this out. since your having kids later if you get a golden he may also see as he came first and get posesive, surprisingly enough goldens are like that , im guessing because they can be so affectionate with their owners. I loved my golden. actually i only had him till he was 6. when we got him we had a big house but because of financial situations we had to move to an apartment, and knew it was no fair to my golden to keep him there. we ended up giving him to a loving family farm looking for a golden.
hope you find the right dog jason!:)
goldens are lovely, labradoodles cute (dont worry i have what i guess youd call a jack-pom pomeranian jack russell lol), and labs are sweet, good choices!

[Jason]

I re-read through the posts and I'm confused on something. You suggest I buy from a shelter because I'll know what I get, but won't that open me up to other potential problems? How do I know the dog wasn't abused? Assuming I get a healthy puppy, I'm confident my dog will mature to a wonderful pet.

Also, there has been a lot said about breeding and health problems. But isn't it true that Retrievers on the whole are prone to multiple disorders and a high incidence of cancer? A friend of mine just lost his Golden to cancer and it tore me apart to hear him tell me how he put it to sleep.

[poeluvr]

did my post help you at all?

[poeluvr]

youll just have to check his background if you get one from the pound. My father did this to see if a dog was abused. He would raise his hand to thee dog to look as though he were gonna hit it. Usually dogs who are not abused just go on their happy way and dont flinch, dogs who have been abused we have noticed flinch or whimper

[Jason]

did my post help you at all?
Yes! Thanks for the feedback. Cute sig too.

[poeluvr]

youll just have to check his background if you get one from the pound. My father did this to see if a dog was abused. He would raise his hand to thee dog to look as though he were gonna hit it. Usually dogs who are not abused just go on their happy way and dont flinch, dogs who have been abused we have noticed flinch or whimper
i dont know if u missed this it really works.
o good glad i could help i hate writing long things only to find out it wasnt helpful
plus u were kinda gettin picked on and not getting the help you simply asked for, but their just trying to help

[Fran27]

What would be considered an acceptable ratio of humans to puppies in a respectable breeder? If I do choose to buy from a breeder (likely), this is one of many questions I'll need to ask.

I'm not sure... But for so many litters they would probably need 10+ people just taking care of the pups. I'm not saying the puppies won't be nice dogs there though, it's just that I would personally not like to give money (I assume they ask quite a bit) to people who breed dogs like they would grow flowers (sorry for the comparison but you get the idea). They probably spend all their time in cages until they are sold too :(

And I agree with Elihunter, I also thought that labradoodles were not supposed to be born from other labradoodles, but from a lab and a poodle (I alluded to it in one of my posts). So breeding those mutts to create mutts really irks me.

I agree also with your reserves about shelters - that's why I wouldn't get a dog from a shelter, and I prefer rescues. 90% of the people who abandon a dog lie about the reasons. Half of the dogs abandonned for allergies are in fact abandonned because they were not trained or are agressive. So asking about the background doesn't mean anything. With rescues at least the dog lives with people for a while and they get a good idea of their character before getting them adopted. Or you can do what I did, get a young puppy from a rescue, they get some all the time when people abandon their pregnant dog.

There is nothing wrong though with getting a pure bred puppy. It's a personal choice.

[Jason]

And I agree with Elihunter, I also thought that labradoodles were not supposed to be born from other labradoodles, but from a lab and a poodle (I alluded to it in one of my posts). So breeding those mutts to create mutts really irks me.I just don't understand this. Ok, all dogs are mixed breeds right? For example, the Flat-Coated Retriever was created in England in the 19th Century by mixing a Lab or Newfoundland with and a setter or pointer. In the late 19th Century, the dog was further refined into what we have today.

Doesn't a Labradoodle mirror this? I would submit that a Labradoodle has a sufficiently different genetic structure to warrant it's own classification. You take two Labradoodles and breed them, and what you have is a...Labradoodle! What happens if you breed two Goldens?

Also, I read somewhere that the issue isn't breeding a Labradoodle and a Labradoodle, it's inbreeding two Labradoodles. Just like human inbreeding, canine inbreeding leads to defective genese becoming active as opposed to dormant.

[Puppy]

hi.good luck jason with choosing the right breed. i am also thinking of a lab or a golden.i have more or less everything figured out and researched.i just need to know the amount of 'TIME' needed to walk on the leesh,and run in a park of the leesh.i have read things that say things like 'labs need LOTS of exercise' or 'labs are a very active breed and need to get rid of ALOT of energy.'

Could someone tell me from their personal experiences what your exercise plans are with your lab or golden?
please include what you do,how long for,and any other details.

Thanks.

[Babyblue5290]

Sorry to butt in, but I'm a bit confused too......like jason said how do you not breed labradoodle to labradoodle? I mean goldens and almost all other dogs where made by crosing breeds and then breeding the 'mutts' produced together to make a certain type. Isn't this the same as breeding a labradoodle to labradoodle?
But I do get not inbreeding.

[gaddylovesdogs]

I re-read through the posts and I'm confused on something. You suggest I buy from a shelter because I'll know what I get, but won't that open me up to other potential problems? How do I know the dog wasn't abused? Assuming I get a healthy puppy, I'm confident my dog will mature to a wonderful pet.
The shelter can usually tell you if the dog has had a bad experience previously. Even if a dog has been abused or neglected, it can make a great pet. My lab was abused and neglected, and with a little work she is the greatest dog. She loves kids and other animals, knows her basic commands and a few tricks...she's just an absolute sweetheart. You can get problems with any dog, including breeder dogs. And just as a note...you don't buy a dog from a shelter, you adopt it.

[Fran27]

I just don't understand this. Ok, all dogs are mixed breeds right? For example, the Flat-Coated Retriever was created in England in the 19th Century by mixing a Lab or Newfoundland with and a setter or pointer. In the late 19th Century, the dog was further refined into what we have today.

Doesn't a Labradoodle mirror this? I would submit that a Labradoodle has a sufficiently different genetic structure to warrant it's own classification. You take two Labradoodles and breed them, and what you have is a...Labradoodle! What happens if you breed two Goldens?

Also, I read somewhere that the issue isn't breeding a Labradoodle and a Labradoodle, it's inbreeding two Labradoodles. Just like human inbreeding, canine inbreeding leads to defective genese becoming active as opposed to dormant.

That's for recognized breeds. As it is, they can just make up whatever standard they want. The labradoodle 'standard' is a first generation mix from a lab and a poodle. So, they don't respect the 'standard', they are just breeding mutts.

Gaddylovesdogs - most shelters have no clue what the past of a dog is. Because owners lie when they give them up.

[Jason]

That's for recognized breeds. As it is, they can just make up whatever standard they want. The labradoodle 'standard' is a first generation mix from a lab and a poodle. So, they don't respect the 'standard', they are just breeding mutts.
Interesting reading:
http://www.rutlandmanor.com/Site/BreedingPractices.aspx

[Yellow Shepard]

It would be kind of hard to choose between a Labradoodle or a Golden Retriever, I like both of them. It depends, do you want a regular breed or a mixed breed?

[bridey_01]

Ok, actual experience with all three breeds.
I am an instructor at a dog club, so I get alot of experience with most breeds, and I can tell you that the most popular breeds at my club are labs and goldens, though we have our fair share of labradoodles! I have two in my puppy class and one in advanced obedience. I have only met one flat coated, and he was lovely, though not the sharpest tool in the shed. My favourite out of these breeds is definetly the labradoodle. They combine the lovely lab temperament and willingness to please with the razor sharp intelligence of the standard poodle (second smartest dog in the world)
They do very well in obediance and pick up commands super fast. There are most definetly good breeders of this breed, as crosses between the lab and poodle are often done by guide dog associations to create guide dogs for people that are dog allergic. Although alot of labradoodles will shed very little, others may shed as much as a "pure" lab, so shedding isn't your main plus here.
I do like goldens, but I have been so over exposed to them as an instructor that I am beginning to become tired of the same old thing. I find labs very excitable and boistrous, though they are smart and happy things. The drawback of owning a labradoodle would be keeping him occupied. That poodle mind will be constantly active in him.

[EliNHunter]

I don't quite understand why the first cross between a lab and a poodle is the only "real" labradoodle, either. But that's the way it is. Most all breeds came from crosses at one point in time, but it took 100's of years to become a standard. Then came the overbreeding -- and the problems. With popularity and bad breeding processes came the problems -- i.e. goldens prone to cancer, eye and hip problems, etc. I really condone rescue for the same reason (I think Fran) said. The dog has been in foster and has been evaluated already.

[Fran27]

Interesting reading:
http://www.rutlandmanor.com/Site/BreedingPractices.aspx

It's just another site that doesn't keep the labradoodle 'standard'. They even say they sometimes breed them back to poodles, those dogs are much more poodle than labs.

But you're right, It seems people started making up the 'australian labradoodle', by breeding labradoodles and labradoodles. It's not the same dogs, but /shrug.

[bridey_01]

I got my kelpie from a shelter, and I would never discourage buying from shelters, but I dicscovered many unknown fears and phobias that she had that I had to work through. These things rarely surface at a fist meeting, and may show themselves months or years after getting the dog. That is why I bought Azlan from a reputable breeder, I know I am starting a fresh slate with him.

[Fran27]

Exactly... That's why I got two puppies too. I'm planning on having children and just can't take the risk of getting an adult dog that may show behavior problems later on. Although one of the puppies is a rescue and was taken from his mom too early.

I was a volunteer at the ASPCA here for about 2 weeks (before I gave up because it was too hard for me to handle emotionally, and I kinda felt useless in that one too :( ). There is *no way* that they know everything about the dogs they have. They just get people who bring dogs and give any kind of reasons for it - moving, allergies, doesn't get along with the other dogs... I'm sure that 90% of the people who give up their dogs give the same excuses. So they put the dogs in their kennels, and spend 30 minutes with them to judge of their character, and that's it. The dogs are usually so lost they don't even show their normal behavior anyway, and they are totally different dogs once in their new family.

I got totally flamed for saying this in another forum to be honest... But I think there is still a risk that any pound dog will have behavior problems. Mostly because I really don't think that people who give up their dogs because they are moving took the time to train their dog properly, if they can't even take a few more days to find a place that accepts dogs... It's not really a problem if the owners are adults with experience in training dogs, but I can't help worrying when I see families with young children get dogs from the pound...

Rescues are another matter though. Foster families keep en eye on the dog, get to know their characters, so you know what dog you are adopting.

On a side note, if we didn't have the cats, I wish I could be a foster :(

[gaddylovesdogs]

Gaddylovesdogs - most shelters have no clue what the past of a dog is. Because owners lie when they give them up.
My dogs all had bad pasts, and only one of them is from a shelter. They are now some of the happiest, most well-trained, sweetest dogs out there.

[gaddylovesdogs]

I believe I have an article on why you cannot breed a doodle with a doodle and get another doodle. I may be able to post it here if I can find it.

[poeluvr]

That's for recognized breeds. As it is, they can just make up whatever standard they want. The labradoodle 'standard' is a first generation mix from a lab and a poodle. So, they don't respect the 'standard', they are just breeding mutts.

Gaddylovesdogs - most shelters have no clue what the past of a dog is. Because owners lie when they give them up.
this is not totally true fran about shelters. when people give them up all lot of them dont caare fran if they tell the truth. i volunteer at a shelter and beleive me these arn't lies. one dog was given up because it didnt match her couch anymore. one dog was overly aggresive kept biting her children. one dog (a golden) was unsocilized kept bitting people. you dont really need to know the background. the people working there had the dog for a while and have to tell you bad traits it has for your safety and knowledge. they all do, they said if they didnt most dogs would be back in a week

[Rose's Gal]

Ok, here comes my .02 since this seems to have become a debate about adopting from a shelter, and breeding Lab/Poodle mixes.

For the breeding Lab/Poodle mixes.... check this link out: http://www.globalpaw.com/showthread.php?t=3987&page=1&pp=15
(don't worry...it will get into the disscussion...and it is kinda long, but it is worth the read.)
And, do you want another reason to not perposely breed mixes? (Because, you guys have admitted that these breeds are mixes. They are NOT trying to develop a breed.) Well, watch this: http://www.dcr.net/~humane/ (It starts out: Why Spay and Neuter...but that could also be...Why breed mixes?)

And from adopting from a shelter...

It is true that you may not know the background of your dog. But sometimes that is worth the risk. Blackie was a stray, and we took him in. We had no idea what his parents were like, and we had no idea if they were unhealty. Well, Blackie is 10 years old, going on strong, and he is one of the best dogs I have ever met.
Sure there was a risk when we adopted him. But I'm glad we took that risk.
Brownie (a dog we had for a couple of months before she died) we found as a stray. We had no idea where she came from, and we took her in. Was that a risk? Yes. But from what I remember of her, she was the sweetest dog ever.
Rose was one of Brownie's puppies. We knew who her (Rose's) parents were, and she grew up at our house. So basically, we knew where she came from. And she is a timid stubborn dog. Sweet, but timid and stubborn.
So just because you know where the dogs come from, that doesn't always equal a good dog.
So you shouldn't pass up a dog just because you don't know where he came from. It is nice to know, but to me anyway, giving a dog a loving home that may not live to see tomorrow or know what love is, is a pretty good reason, even if I don't know where they come from. They all deserve to be loved.


Now..back to the original subject. lol

I don't even remember who started this thing (and I'm too lazy to look. lol) so let me just say:
Have you looked at any of the breeds I posted? And will you consider a breed that isn't a retriever?

[Renee750il]

MY $.02 :D (Took me long enough, didn't it, lol)

If you want some advice on choosing a reputable breeder, check out this stickied post: http://www.chazhound.com/forums/showthread.php?t=787

Shelter dogs: The ones I've adopted as adults with dubious backgrounds have been the absolute easiest, best all-around dogs I've had (I'll include Bimmer in this, although he was only 4 months old when I got him), and they've been 'suspect' breeds: Big, the German Shepherd, Bear - German Shepherd/Akita mix who became a certified therapy dog, and Bimmer - a discarded German Shepherd/Wolf mix. All three completely trustworthy, beautifully mannered . . . everything you could ask for in a companion. So don't sweat the shelter issue too much - follow your heart and instincts and don't try to over analyze.

Gaddy's questions were good ones, but . . . there was no reason to answer them 'out loud' on the forum. Those are questions you ask yourself and are only answerable for to yourself - and your future dog. I think you showed a great deal of forebearance and good humor to answer them as you did.

If you're going to be gone two or three days a week for 8 to 10 hours at a time it's going to be extremely difficult to train a puppy. You really might be well served to consider an older dog, even one that's say, four to six months old would be not only easier on you, but infinitely easier on the pup.

Remember, breed standards are just guidelines; every dog has its own individual characteristics and weird quirks - that's part of the joy and the frustration!

Any dog will guard its family to the best of its ability, even if it can only bite ankles. A good dog isn't going to let anyone or anything slip into its home. There are countless stories of heroics by all different breeds of dogs. The best watchdog is the one who loves you.

So, find the dog who speaks to your heart and you will have chosen the right dog.

[stirder]

actually they suck as guard dogs, sure theres a few good ones out there though. a watchdog means one of two things. #1: it barks at possible tresspassers, then wants to be their best friend. or #2: it watches them steal everything you own.
Ive had 2 goldens and by both definitions, both were the best watchdogs Ive ever had. goldens shed a lot, but the two I had actually shed less than any of my german shepherds. I dont know much at all about the flat coated, except they look to me like a black golden retriever. and labradoodles are a designer mutt. they have no standard since they are not a recognised breed, and therefore the breeders can do pretty much anything they want. also since there is a limited number of these dogs and breeders, they can charge whatever they want, and you cant tell the quality of the pups by looking at the litter because often the parents are nothing alike. either one is a poodle and ones a lab (you cant tell exactly what they will produce as far as health, temperment or appearance), or they are both crosses but of different proportions which creates the same problems. not saying its a bad mix, in a few generations they may be one of the worlds most popular recognized breeds. but for now I would steer away from them. if you want a mix check your local shelters.
good luck. post some pics when you finally get one, whatever breed you choose.

[Jason]

Thanks for the link Rose. I read the entire thread and learned some interesting things. Now I think I'm even more in favor of a Labradoodle.

[Rose's Gal]

Now I think I'm even more in favor of a Labradoodle.
May I ask why? (Not that it is my business...but I'm just courious.)

[bubbatd]

Stirder... now that post made sense. Unless my golden knows the person or car, he will be my alarm. I know he won't attack and would he if I was in danger ?? Who knows. But, I know he warns me early enough that I could call 911.

[bubbatd]

P.S. As far as the doodle dogs, it's a roll of the dice. Not being a "Breed" you take a chance...... something you do with any mutt. Could be the best dog ever.

[bubbatd]

PPS....now look into goldenoodles...... another good mutt but with maybe a better temperment.

[stirder]

personally I dont like any of the designer mutts, they are not being bred for a purpose other than to have something new to sell. there are more than enough mixed breeds in shelters. if you want a mutt why not adopt one rather than promote the creation of more of them??? if they were trying to make them do better at something than the 2 counter parts are, and are doing it responsibly then okay. but thats not the case with any of these new mutts.

[bubbatd]

I agree, but this is what they want......we've tried, they've decided. Let's just hope and pray they spay or neuter as soon as possible. !! Eleven pages of advice and they want to pay big bucks for a mutt......SIGH!!!!

[stirder]

yeah, agree. and only reason I continued the argument (after seeing that it has gone on for 12 pages now) is that I hope someone else will read this post when considering one and come to their senses. anyone notice how designer mutts are not occuring in places like germany, france, spain, belgium etc? mostly in the united states, supposedly some happening in australia. europe has stricter breeding laws than we do. youd think with hundreds of breeds already in the world that there would be one for everyone and no one would have to create a new one. please people, if your thinking about a labradoodle, puggle, alsatian shepalute, rott-russel terrier, saint berhuahua...go to your local animal shelter. they have mixed breeds there that are exactly the same as the new "designer mutts", and some mixes that no one has decided to make a profit off of yet. adoption fee is garaunteed to be less than the thousands of dollars these jerks are charging. its a scam, plain and simple.

[Fran27]

I love European breed laws! It's forbidden to sell or give away a puppy younger than 8 weeks, and they need to have their shots and have their identification tattoo.

But anyway. I agree Bubbatd. It's so sad we keep using arguments against those breeds and people just end up being more convinced that they want one... and are just encouraging those BYB to make more money with those mutts... You want a hypoallergenic dog? Get a poodle. You want a retriever? Get a lab. Labradoodles have no purpose, as the project of making it a new breed failed. Their only purpose is to make it easier for dishonest breeders to take advantage of ignorant people... Like that mutt factory that the OP posted about :mad:

[Jason]

personally I dont like any of the designer mutts, they are not being bred for a purpose other than to have something new to sell...if they were trying to make them do better at something than the 2 counter parts are, and are doing it responsibly then okay. but thats not the case with any of these new mutts.

Actually, what you wrote isn't true. Labradoodles were originally created by the Australian Guide Dog Association in the mid-70s to help those with allergies. And while you certainly are entitled to not like "designer mutts", there seem to be many responsible breeders of Labradoodles. It's ludicrous to make a blanket statement that all breeders of these "new mutts" are irresponsible breeders.

[Jason]

Assuming a person buys from a responsible breeder that matches all the criteria from the "Responsible Breeder Checklist" thread, why are so many of you so upset over a Labradoodle? And don't tell me there aren't any responsible breeders. That's as arrogant a statement as it is ignorant. I also don't want to hear that I could buy a mutt from a shelter, because no matter what breed I buy it's coming from a professional, responsible breeder.

[gaddylovesdogs]

Jason, what makes a responsible breeder? And why are you so against adopting a dog from a shelter?

[Jason]

Jason, what makes a responsible breeder? And why are you so against adopting a dog from a shelter?
What makes a responsible breeder:
http://www.chazhound.com/forums/showthread.php?t=787

I'm not adopting a dog from a shelter because I want to raise a puppy.

EDIT: I'd say the odds are 90% we'll buy from a breeder.

[gaddylovesdogs]

There are plenty of puppies at the shelter - my Colby came from a puppy at two months old.

[gaddylovesdogs]

If you go to a breeder, would you research the breeder thoroughly and ask many detail questions? Which breeder would you like to purchase from?

[Jason]

Any Labradoodle or Golden puppies at the shelter with papers, testing, and a rock solid background?

[Jason]

If you go to a breeder, would you research the breeder thoroughly and ask many detail questions? Which breeder would you like to purchase from?I think I'm going to open the Yellow Pages and just pick the first breeder I see.

[gaddylovesdogs]

"Labradoodles" aren't accepted by the AKC. And just to let you know, just because a dog can be registered doesn't necessarily mean it is healthy (unfortunately).Purebreed registration papers only state the recorded lineage of a dog. Accuracy of the reported lineage cannot be guaranteed. The American Kennel Club (AKC), the most widely recognized purebred dog registry, readily notes that it "is not itself involved in the sale of dogs and cannot therefore guarantee the health and quality of dogs in its registry." Clearly, it is "buyer beware."
What kind of testing would you be looking for?

[gaddylovesdogs]

I think I'm going to open the Yellow Pages and just pick the first breeder I see.
I hope you're joking. :)

[Jason]

"Labradoodles" aren't accepted by the AKC. And just to let you know, just because a dog can be registered doesn't necessarily mean it is healthy (unfortunately).
What kind of testing would you be looking for?
I'd like to see my puppy tested for herpes. You never know what could happen at those 'Yellow Page' breeders.

[Fran27]

Actually, what you wrote isn't true. Labradoodles were originally created by the Australian Guide Dog Association in the mid-70s to help those with allergies. And while you certainly are entitled to not like "designer mutts", there seem to be many responsible breeders of Labradoodles. It's ludicrous to make a blanket statement that all breeders of these "new mutts" are irresponsible breeders.

They were created to be a retriever helping with allergies. As they realized that they were not better for allergies than poodles and not better retrievers than labs, they gave up.

So, the only people still breeding them are those who want to take advantage of the novelty to make money. You don't create a breed without a special aim.

[gaddylovesdogs]

OFA and OFE are also very important. Temperant tests are good too.

[gaddylovesdogs]

Yes, the "labradoodle" didn't work in Australia. They gave up because they found they did not make better guide dogs and did shed.

[BigDog2191]

I'd like to see my puppy tested for herpes. You never know what could happen at those 'Yellow Page' breeders.

LOL! She's just concerned...

[Jason]

OFA and OFE are also very important. Temperant tests are good too.
Hmm, that's what my research shows, but I still want him to have the herpes test!

[Jason]

So, the only people still breeding them are those who want to take advantage of the novelty to make money. You don't create a breed without a special aim.Why do people breed Goldens or Soft-Coated Wheaton Terriers?

[Jason]

LOL! She's just concerned...
She??

[Jason]

"Labradoodles" aren't accepted by the AKC.
Not yet but I bet they will be at one point.

[BigDog2191]

She??

Yeah, Gaddy's a girl.

[Jason]

Yeah, Gaddy's a girl.
Oh ok, I thought you were saying that I was concerned about the dog having herpes. Good, you got my joke. :cool:

[BigDog2191]

Oh ok, I thought you were saying that I was concerned about the dog having herpes. Good, you got my joke. :cool:

I seriously LOL'ed when I read that.

[bubbatd]

Let's get back folks ! Yes, these in- breeds may be regognized sometime......until then, go 3rd generations....and not with a breeder saying they have 3 generations in three years.!!! If there is at least 8 years of breeding without inter-breeding, look into it... if they are serious breeders they will have all testing covered. It would take a good breeder at least this time to become established. Any ads for any doodles are to stay away from.!

[stirder]

any newspaper or thrifty nickle ads for any breed of dog is to be avoided. a good breeder doesnt have to advertise in the local newspaper. they have enough word of mouth and satisfied customers to advertise for them.

[Jason]

Bubba and Stirder, I agree wholeheartedly. If I go with a LD, it'll be from one of the original breeders in Australia or a breeder recommended by them located in the U.S. Nothing half-assed.

[gaddylovesdogs]

She??
Yes, I am female. Why are you so surprised? :rolleyes:

[gaddylovesdogs]

Hmm, that's what my research shows, but I still want him to have the herpes test!
LOL :) ;)

[Rose's Gal]

Ok, I'm adding my .02 one last time, and then I'm out of here....(but I'll probably be back because I can't seem to stay away from these threads! lol)

Here is my opinion, and nothing more. I don't mean to offend anybody, but I do want my point to come across clear. (And please forgive my poor spelling. lol) And I'm never going to rest in peace until I make myself clear on this point. (And half of this is going to be a rant, so forgive me ahead of time.)

IMO, most 99.9% of Lab/Poodle mix breeders are irresponsible. Actually, if they are breeding a Lab and a Poodle and not trying to develop a breed, then I atomaticly label them as irresponsible. Just for the heck of it, I typed in Labradoodle breeders in on google and a couple (a thousand) pages popped up. I clicked on a link that had a breeder directery. I was just browsing through the ads of the breeders, and none, I repeat, none, were responsible breeders.
I only saw two or three that actually did OFA tests on there dogs (the others just said "Shots and wormed!" like it was the greatest thing in the world) but they (the OFA breeders) set off some red flags too.
I'm sorry, but I have yet to come across a responsible breeder of these dogs. I have yet to come across a breeder that is trying to make this a breed, not a mix.

I think you were joking, but I'm going to post this anyway, even if it isn't to you. lol
I can almost garentee that dogs from newspaper ads, or whatever are poorly bred. I've yet to come across a reponsible breeder posting in a newspaper. Please look somewhere else for a dog.

Now, about the AKC regestering Lab/Poodle mixes.
The AKC will not recognize a breed until it has so and so many members. And do you know what a requirement of the AKC is? That it be purebred! (It has to have a certian type of pedigree...can't remember what number or whatever it is.)
So Lab/Poodle mixes have as much as a chance as being registered by the AKC as Rose does (my Lab/Rottie/GSD/ACD mix) because no breeder is trying to have them as a set breed! They are just breeding mutts, while thousands die in shelters, giving them a cutsie name, and then charging 2,000$ for them.

I love my Rottie/Lab mix named Blackie. He is everything I've ever wanted in a dog. So why don't I get a Lab and a Rottie, call them a Rottador, breed them, and then charge 2,000$ per pup? Here is why:
Reason #1 (http://www.petfinder.com/pet.cgi?action=2&pet=4742088&adTarget=&SessionID=42d1762440756ef6-app3&display=&preview=1&row=0&tmpl=&stat=)
Reason #2 (http://www.petfinder.com/pet.cgi?action=2&pet=4051853&adTarget=&SessionID=42d1762440756ef6-app3&display=&preview=1&row=0&tmpl=&stat=)
Reason #3 (http://www.petfinder.com/pet.cgi?action=2&pet=3992888&adTarget=&SessionID=42d1762440756ef6-app3&display=&preview=1&row=0&tmpl=&stat=)
Reason #4 (http://www.petfinder.com/pet.cgi?action=2&pet=4696038&adTarget=&SessionID=42d1762440756ef6-app3&display=&preview=1&row=25&tmpl=&stat=)
Reason #5 (http://www.petfinder.com/pet.cgi?action=2&pet=4696111&adTarget=&SessionID=42d1762440756ef6-app3&display=&preview=1&row=25&tmpl=&stat=)

And you don't know how many more I've found, in just the state of Indiana. Our local shelter just recentally had a litter of Lab/Rottie pups. I think there were like...10 or 12 or something. That is one more reason. (Or actually...10 or 12 more reasons.) The shelter also had two adult Lab/Rottie mixes. Those were two more reasons.
Do you want some more reasons? How about these purebred dogs that are exactly like my Lab/Rottie mix temperament wise, exercise wise, grooming wise, etc., etc.?
Rottweiler
Chesapeke Bay Retriever
American Staffordshire Terrier
Neopolitan Mastiff
English Mastiff
American Pit Bull Terrier
American Bulldog
Bull Terrier


Tell me...what did you find in a Lab/Poodle mix that you can't find in another shelter mutt or in another purebred dog? Frankly, I can't find a thing.

Why do people breed Goldens or Soft-Coated Wheaton Terriers?
To preserve a breed. Goldens and Wheatons were bred for a purpose way back when. Now they are being bred to preserve a breed.

Any Labradoodle or Golden puppies at the shelter with papers, testing, and a rock solid background?
Yes, if you go to a rescue. For a shelter...maybe.
Now, here comes my opinion.
Papers - Why does this matter? Frankly, just because a Lab/Poodle mix is registered with the CKC (national puppymill registry) that doesn't prove the quality of the dog. Papers prove squat. Especially when you are buying a mix. So ya, when I start breeding my "Rottadors" I'm going to open up a registry just for them so I can claim that they are "pure bred".

Testing - I'm sorry you can't be willing to take a dog in that has never known love, just because it might have some health problems. I'm sorry that you can't welcome a dog that will become your best friend into your home because it might become sick. I'm going to feel sorry for your dog that you get from a breeder that might develop health problems. Because hey, once it develops health problems, it won't be worth squat.
(Ok, that was a little rude, and I'm not saying that is what you are like, but I'm frusterated and tired and I'm being a little bit sarcastic. Sorry. And I did type something else, but it didn't make sense to me, the writer, so I'm sure it wouldn't have made sense to you, the reader. lol)

Rock solid Background - Yes, some do. Some don't. Some are so little when they are dumped, it doesn't matter. And why does this matter to you? I can understand not wanting to be stuck with a fearful dog or whatever, but that can be determined with a simple temperment test. I know plenty of dogs that were "shelter mutts" that are perfect, well behaved, healthy dogs, and I've known some "pedigreed" dogs that have there "health tests" by "breeders" that are absolute nightmares. Of course, I've known just the oppisite too. A dog doesn't need a rock soild background to have a rock solid temperment. Just go and look at the dogs that were once abused that have turned into the best pets ever.

Ok, anyways, I have to go because I have two lovely, healthy, well behaved, child loving, shelter mutts, that are supposed to be unhealthy and horrilbe, that I have to go walk.
(And, omigosh, we got both of these dogs as puppies...Blackie actually at 6 months old...with unstable backgrounds too! :eek: Oh no! And he just finnished an obedience trial where he got a 180/200 and 10 of those points were lost because he laid down during the sit/stay! Oh no!)

Oh, one more thing.

I can tolorate the Lab/Poodle mixes. They didn't ask to be bred by irrisponsible people. I can also kinda tolorate somebody buying one out of ignorance. They just simply didn't know. But what I can't tolorate is somebody buying one when they know full well what they are doing. That irks me.

Ok, I'm done now...As said earlier, sorry if that came off bad. I just had to get all of that off of my chest. Now for the one major question I've been wanting to ask, that I asked earlier but you have probably forgoten by now, because this post is so long. lol :)

Why do you want a Labradoodle? Why won't another breed or mutt that is in a shelter fill your wishes?

[gaddylovesdogs]

Excellent post, Andrea!!! You said everything that needed to be said, and very nicely.

[poeluvr]

[QUOTE=Rose's Gal]Ok, I'm adding my .02 one last time, and then I'm out of here....(but I'll probably be back because I can't seem to stay away from these threads! lol)
QUOTE]
i know what u mean

[stirder]

excellent post roses gal. you hit the nail on the head. I want to ask one question rather than go back and read 15 pages of posts on this, you said "I think you were joking, but I'm going to post this anyway, even if it isn't to you. lol I can almost garentee that dogs from newspaper ads....." the reason I am asking about that is because I mentioned (and I think someone else did too) the same thing, to avoid newspaper ads when looking for a breeder. its not important just wandering if you were referencing my post?, maybe I wasnt clear on what I meant when I mentioned paper ads.
also, the reason you cant find any "responsible" breeders of labradoodles is because there are none. originally the "breed" started in australia to create a hypoallergenic lab. it failed and those responsible breeders who did all sorts of tests, used dogs with conformation AND working titles, and did ofa etc quit breeding them. some americans heard about it and started breeding them before the original breeders realized it failed. they are now doing it purely for profit.
I was sitting at the vets office the other day waiting to talk to my vet after she gave my ifes cat a lime/sulfer dip. I was reading a magazine called something like "american vet. association" or something similar. there was an article written by a spokesman for OFA, talking about designer dogs. this person said that OFA has certified exactly 10 labradoodles. and that they can only promise that almost any breeder you talk to who claims ofa certified is lying. this mornign I found 3 ads for labradoodle breeders in the newspaper, called all 3 of them. guess how many could tell me what OFA was??? not one. one told me that it was a very advanced trial of obedience, flyball, and agility= O.F.A. I played along for a little while as he fumbled to explain in more detail. then finally asked "doesnt it stand for orthopedic foundation for animals?" and he said "oh no, Ive never head of that, why would animals need orthodontists?"
the point is...there are thousands of true breeds out there. one of them is going to be everything a labradoodle will be. please dont pad these irresponsible back yard breeders pockets and encourage them to breed even more of them.

[poeluvr]

excellent post roses gal. you hit the nail on the head. I want to ask one question rather than go back and read 15 pages of posts on this, you said "I think you were joking, but I'm going to post this anyway, even if it isn't to you. lol I can almost garentee that dogs from newspaper ads....." the reason I am asking about that is because I mentioned (and I think someone else did too) the same thing, to avoid newspaper ads when looking for a breeder. its not important just wandering if you were referencing my post?, maybe I wasnt clear on what I meant when I mentioned paper ads.
also, the reason you cant find any "responsible" breeders of labradoodles is because there are none. originally the "breed" started in australia to create a hypoallergenic lab. it failed and those responsible breeders who did all sorts of tests, used dogs with conformation AND working titles, and did ofa etc quit breeding them. some americans heard about it and started breeding them before the original breeders realized it failed. they are now doing it purely for profit.
I was sitting at the vets office the other day waiting to talk to my vet after she gave my ifes cat a lime/sulfer dip. I was reading a magazine called something like "american vet. association" or something similar. there was an article written by a spokesman for OFA, talking about designer dogs. this person said that OFA has certified exactly 10 labradoodles. and that they can only promise that almost any breeder you talk to who claims ofa certified is lying. this mornign I found 3 ads for labradoodle breeders in the newspaper, called all 3 of them. guess how many could tell me what OFA was??? not one. one told me that it was a very advanced trial of obedience, flyball, and agility= O.F.A. I played along for a little while as he fumbled to explain in more detail. then finally asked "doesnt it stand for orthopedic foundation for animals?" and he said "oh no, Ive never head of that, why would animals need orthodontists?"
the point is...there are thousands of true breeds out there. one of them is going to be everything a labradoodle will be. please dont pad these irresponsible back yard breeders pockets and encourage them to breed even more of them.
lol...orthodontists..he didnt even know.lol

[gaddylovesdogs]

this mornign I found 3 ads for labradoodle breeders in the newspaper, called all 3 of them. guess how many could tell me what OFA was??? not one. one told me that it was a very advanced trial of obedience, flyball, and agility= O.F.A. I played along for a little while as he fumbled to explain in more detail. then finally asked "doesnt it stand for orthopedic foundation for animals?" and he said "oh no, Ive never head of that, why would animals need orthodontists?" LMBO that's hilarious. Shows you how responsible they are. :rolleyes:

[Jason]

IMO, most 99.9% of Lab/Poodle mix breeders are irresponsible.I stopped reading right here. You lose all credibility when you make a ridiculous statement, even if some of your other points are correct.

[stirder]

well, beleive it or not the statement is true because there is no RESPONSIBLE reason to breed them, plain and simple.

[Rose's Gal]

I stopped reading right here. You lose all credibility when you make a ridiculous statement, even if some of your other points are correct.
Well, I'm sorry that if I make one mistake, all of my other advice gets thrown out the window. Excuse me. Just because a person can't advise on one thing, doesn't mean that they can't advise on another. That is bad logic.
And notice I didn't say 100%. The reason I said 99.9% is because out of all of the breeders of Lab/Poodle mixes I've seen, I have yet to see a responsible one. (And I've seen a LOT of breeders.)
(And notice, I said In My Opinion. Nothing more. That doesn't mean it is true, that means it is MY OPINION.)

Strider - Oh, I knew what you said, and you said it quite well. I was just addding that in for good measure. lol

guess how many could tell me what OFA was??? not one. one told me that it was a very advanced trial of obedience, flyball, and agility= O.F.A. I played along for a little while as he fumbled to explain in more detail. then finally asked "doesnt it stand for orthopedic foundation for animals?" and he said "oh no, Ive never head of that, why would animals need orthodontists?"
ROFLMHO!!! That is rediculous!!! I don't know whether to laugh at this dudes stupidity, or to be so ticked that somebody like this is breeding! Well...at least he knew what obedience, flyball, and agility was!! :eek: :rolleyes: :mad:

[Jason]

well, beleive it or not the statement is true because there is no RESPONSIBLE reason to breed them, plain and simple.
That's not true. It is easily possible that some, regardless of the actual percentage (but greater than the 0.1% Rose listed), are interested in bettering the breed and getting it recognized. To say without question none are interested in that is crazy.

[gaddylovesdogs]

Jason, unfortunately there are very few responsible doodle and poo breeders - one that do all necessary health and behavioral tests and want to have their mix accepted as an actual breed. There are very, very few.

[Jason]

Tell ya what Rose. Research the following breeders thoroughly and give me your honest opinion as to whether they are responsible or not. I'll listen to your EDUCATED opinion:
http://www.laa.org.au/breeders_Australia.htm
http://www.laa.org.au/breeders_US.htm
Thanks.
EDIT: One more: http://www.rutlandmanor.com/Site/Home.aspx

[Rose's Gal]

Tell ya what Rose. Research the following breeders thoroughly and give me your honest opinion as to whether they are responsible or not. I'll listen to your EDUCATED opinion:
http://www.laa.org.au/breeders_Australia.htm
http://www.laa.org.au/breeders_US.htm
Thanks.
EDIT: One more: http://www.rutlandmanor.com/Site/Home.aspx
Ok, will do. I will be frankly honest, even if I don't want to be. lol
Checking them out now....

[Jason]

Ok, will do. I will be frankly honest, even if I don't want to be. lol
Checking them out now....
Thanks. I trust you'll keep an open mind. I'd like to know what you see that you like and what you see that you don't like. Tegan Park is supposed to be the best but you be the judge.

[stirder]

first one still claims to be breeding to create a allergy friendly dog, hasnt worked yet, and has been proven not too work.
clubdoodles has a 1 year old brood ***** and a 1 year old male poodle, a 1 year old chocolate labradoodle, and only say ofa cert or ofa prelim. they dont say what the scores were, and a 1 year old absolutely should not be bred
washington labradoodles doesnt list anything about ofa or other tests
california labradoodles...same problems as washington
same with snug harbor
same with whispering winds
same with aladdin

so my gut instinct is "irresponsible" and they all claim allergy friendly or hypoallergenic. that is not true. its possible they have done all the other tests, but would have to contact them to find out. I would want to see the ofa certificates etc.

[stirder]

even tegan park doesnt list any tests they have done to judge breeding quality.

[Fran27]

I don't even know why you guys keep trying to convince him. Your posts were excellent, but he doesn't give a **** obviously.

[stirder]

like I said a while ago, he may not learn but maybe others will read this thread and learn from it.

[Rose's Gal]

The first breeder of the first link...I have no clue. They didn't give me a good impression, how about that? lol They didn't say anything about health testing or anything like that and they didn't mention anything about a contract, etc. I would like to see who the studs were for the litter, where they keep the dogs, etc., etc.

I also looked at this breeder (www.wodoodles.com)....not promising, IMO. They didn't say anything about health testing. Just that the pups recieve age apporpriate vet care, and that if the dogs aren't to be used for breeding, they are to be spayed.

I'm now looking at this website: www.rutlandmanor.com
I don't know yet....I guess it depends on a matter of opinion on this one. I think they have too many dogs. But then, I believe that a Responsible breeder should only breed when their show line needs to be improved and I also belive that they shouldn't have so many dogs that they need a "staff" and that the dogs have to live outside, however well furnished. But that is just MO. I wouldn't buy from them (even if it was like, Rotties or something), but they are deffinitally one of the better Breeders I've seen.
And it also doesn't thrill me that they ship their pups without meeting the people they are shipping too first...but then, that is me.
I also see nothing about how they screen homes, etc. But as I said earlier, deffinitally a better breeder.

www.labradoodle.com I don't think so...I see nothing about health testing, etc. Their website doesn't inspire confidence. Same with this other site I was looking at, that I thought I posted but I didn't, and I just closed the page. lol (Stupid me.)