Dogs have feelings too

[DryCreek]

LINKY (http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23136603-662,00.html)

If you go to the link you can see a pic of the boy, the dog and the mother.

Dogs have feelings too: mauled boy's mum

By Clementine Cuneo

January 31, 2008 12:00pm

THE mother who vowed to keep the family dog which attacked her toddler says she is not a bad mum, and people should realise dogs have feelings too.

Alicia Cottier continues to blame her two-year-old son for the attack which happened after the toddler tugged on the animal's ears at their home in NSW's Hunter Valley.

"The dog was trying to protect herself, she's got feelings too, just like Noah does," Ms Cottier said.

Noah Newbold was bitten on the face by the family's 30kg mastiff-staffordshire cross, leaving puncture wounds in his cheeks and chin.

After wide reaction to the story about the attack in The Daily Telegraph yesterday, Ms Cottier pleaded with the public to believe she is not a negligent mum.

Her public plea came as she was inundated with calls from TV networks for interviews, and she was forced to call police when a crew from Seven’s Today Tonight refused to leave.

As another young boy recovered from a separate dog attack in hospital on the NSW North Coast yesterday, Ms Cottier told how her son was attacked as she text messaged on her mobile phone.

Warned

Ms Cottier said she noticed her son pulling at the dog's ears.

"I told him to stop or she'd bite him, then I kept texting . . . next thing I knew she had snapped," Ms Cottier said.

She said the five-year-old dog named Cassey was not vicious.

"It's not as bad as it looks. The dog just snapped at him and bit him," she said.

Ms Cottier said she would speak with her former partner, and he may consider taking the dog to his place. Otherwise, she said she would ensure the dog and the child were kept apart.

The incident sparked outrage and prompted hundreds of comments on The Daily Telegraph's website.

As of late yesterday, 70 per cent of the 4000 readers who voted in our online poll thought the dog should be removed.

Separate attack

Ms Cottier's defence of her decision to keep the dog came as another boy was recovering from a dog attack which left him in need of emergency surgery.

Rodney Beveridge, from Urbenville on the North Coast is still in shock after the dog ripped his arm open in a savage attack on Australia Day.

He had been playing at a friend's house when he went to go inside but was met at the door by a mastiff-rottweiler cross.

The dog rushed Rodney, biting his upper right arm, sinking its teeth to the bone and shaking him from side to side.

The dog will be put down.

[Lilavati]

That looks like a snap that connected, not an attack, to me. But then, its not a good photo . . . and oh . . . yes . . . I know that dogs can bite and NOT do much harm.

She should have separated them though.

[bubbatd]

Had any of my Goldens snapped and bitten any of my 3 , I know my kids caused it !! I would not fault the dogs .

[MissMySheena]

Good for that lady. :) I'm sick of people on the news saying their getting their dogs destroyed for snapping after little kids push their buttons.

BTW, Lilavati, your siggy made me laugh. >.< I love A Fish called Wanda.

[Lilavati]

Had any of my Goldens snapped and bitten any of my 3 , I know my kids caused it !! I would not fault the dogs .

Not at all the fault of the dog. On the other hand, when she saw the kid pulling on the dog's ears, she should have separated them.

But definatley not the dogs fault . . . and it doesn't look like a serious bite to me, except for the location.

[misticaleclipse]

Not at all the fault of the dog. On the other hand, when she saw the kid pulling on the dog's ears, she should have separated them.

Thats what I was thinking, its HER fault, instead of blaming the dog
in this case she is blaming the child when its her responsibility :rolleyes:

[RD]

I dunno if a 2 year old fully understands what a dog bite is. If it was a 6-7-8+ child I'd feel differently.

I can't blame the dog in the first incident in the slightest. A dog shouldn't be expected to tolerate that kind of crap from people, and that mother should have stood up for the dog and taken the kid away from her as soon as she noticed the ears being pulled.

The dog in the second incident, I'm afraid I'd have euthanized too. Unless you're extremely responsible about crating a dog when visitors are around, you can't have a dog that will savagely bite an "intruder" if you have kids with lots of little playmates running around. You just can't.

[Sweet72947]

That article reminds me of a thread I read on another forum. Somebody owned a malamute who was a service/therapy dog who would lie there and let 16 kids pet him at once. The owners also had a kid with issues and developmental disabilities, and didn't understand things the same way a normal kid might. This kid picked up the malamute by his fur and threw him around, and the malamute bit the kid in the face. The kid needed stitches. The owners chose to keep the dog and not put it down because they thoroughly blamed themselves for the incident. This incident never made the news, probably because it wasn't a bully breed. :rolleyes:

[puppydog]

Kid deserved what he got. I bet he won't pull the dogs ears again.

[chanda]

i agree the kid really deserved that for pulling the dog's ears.

[Lilavati]

i agree the kid really deserved that for pulling the dog's ears.

Well, yes, no. That was a really little kid. The dog had every right to bite. But did the kid deserve it? From the dog's point of view, yes. But from a human point of view, no. Because the mother should have intervened. Kids that little DON'T know any better and they get hurt in all sorts of ways because of it. A child that age should expect (if they expect anything) his mother to keep him out of trouble . . . and not just by saying no, but by keeping him out of the situation altogether and separating the child from the dog. It was the mother's fault, I believe, not the child. If the kid had been older, then yes, he would have deserved it.

[puppydog]

I think the kid deserved it. When I was that age I never hurt an animal, I was more aware then that. My sisters kids have never either. My opinion is that he deserved it.

[mrose_s]

whether he deserved it or not, the mother should have intervened. Not said "don't or he'll bite you" and gone back to her phone. Now she's having to defend her dog. Dogs in most states here only have to bite another animal (that includes chickens and rats etc) and they are declared dangerous. My cousin lost his rotti to that system.

[puppydog]

I agree with you 100% Maggie

[Miakoda]

A 2-year-old kid doesn't "deserve" anything. A 2-year-old is an innocent yet inquisitve creature hell-bent on exploring the world around him and learning all about it. It is the parents' responsibility to make his explorations safe! And does a 2-year-old know what the word "no" means? Maybe. But is he capable of understanding the rationale behind the use of the word? No. Again, that is why it is the parents' job to make sure he stays out of dangerous situations....exactly what this own child was in at the time.

Yes pulling a dog's ears constantly can warrant a nip or bite. But a 2-year-old doesn't deserve that bite.....the mother or father who sat back and allowed it to happen does. It's like saying that a 2-year-old deserved to fall head-first into the deep end of the pool and end up in the hospital because the mother/father told him "No! Get away from the pool!"

Now if this were an 8-year-old kid we're talking about, then it would be different. But even then, an 8-year-old should STILL be under a parent's supervision especially when around animals.

[milos_mommy]

It's just something that happened. I don't think she's BLAMING her kid, she's just saying it was the kid's fault and the dog wasn't totally psycho. I'd do the same thing in her situation. The dog didn't "attack", it snapped and connected. It didn't repeatedly bite, rip, shake, or in any other way intent to cause serious harm. It probably didn't even MEAN to bite, it probably just meant to snap.

She needs to watch them more closely, definately, and watch the dog for odd behavior. But otherwise, i think she's right to keep the dog, as it sounds like an accident that happened in a normal household with a decently behaved dog and a toddler.

[milos_mommy]

A 2-year-old kid doesn't "deserve" anything. A 2-year-old is an innocent yet inquisitve creature hell-bent on exploring the world around him and learning all about it. It is the parents' responsibility to make his explorations safe! And does a 2-year-old know what the word "no" means? Maybe. But is he capable of understanding the rationale behind the use of the word? No. Again, that is why it is the parents' job to make sure he stays out of dangerous situations....exactly what this own child was in at the time.

Yes pulling a dog's ears constantly can warrant a nip or bite. But a 2-year-old doesn't deserve that bite.....the mother or father who sat back and allowed it to happen does. It's like saying that a 2-year-old deserved to fall head-first into the deep end of the pool and end up in the hospital because the mother/father told him "No! Get away from the pool!"

Now if this were an 8-year-old kid we're talking about, then it would be different. But even then, an 8-year-old should STILL be under a parent's supervision especially when around animals.

Great post :hail: Unfortunately, i know people who do "blame" their one and two year olds when they get hurt. The kid runs in the street and they just scream "JAYDAAAAAA GET OUT OF THE F***ING STREET. YOU'RE SO STUPID, GET OUT OF THE STREET YOU STUPID F***ING KID." (and then they're scream at their 8 and 9 year old daughters "YOU F***ING C*** GET THE BABY OUT OF THE STREET!" :mad:)

[sparks19]

it was definitely the mothers fault... she was too busy with her own life to protect her child. The child should not have been allowed to pull on the dogs ears. But what if the child had been walking and fell and accidently hurt the dog and the dog snapped? what then?

HOWEVER, with that said....

if any of my dogs EVER EVER EVER bites Hannah... they are gone. I don't care what anyone thinks about it. I will do my best to make sure she doesn't pull on their ears or their tails or whatever else. But like I said up top what if it was a total unpreventable accident? she's learning to walk and falls on the dogs paw or something? dog gets hurt and lashes out.... acceptable? NO WAY.

My dogs can count on me to take action.... they do NOT take action themselves. So if they EVER lay a tooth on her in any threatening manner...t hey are out and I don't care whose fault it is. I will NOT EVER jeopardize my kids safety because "dogs have feelings too" Sure they do... but biting is unacceptable... PERIOD.

and I don't care what anyone thinks about that.

[HoundedByHounds]

If the child has a fear of the dog, the child should not be forced to live with the dog...deserved or not. That is a phobia in the making. I'd never force my child to live with an animal that they were terrified of.

If the child is over it...no big...but if the child is afraid...IMO allowing the dog to stay is detrimental to the child's mental health and sense of security with it's parent.

[elegy]

I think the mother in this situation was awfully lucky that her dog showed as much restraint as she did. A big dog biting a 2 year old child in the face and only leaving that amount of damage? That dog didn't intend harm.

[Renee750il]

If the child has a fear of the dog, the child should not be forced to live with the dog...deserved or not. That is a phobia in the making. I'd never force my child to live with an animal that they were terrified of.

If the child is over it...no big...but if the child is afraid...IMO allowing the dog to stay is detrimental to the child's mental health and sense of security with it's parent.

Thing is, if you make the big scary dog go away, you haven't done the kid any favors as far as learning to deal with life without deus ex machina intervening. You've also planted the seeds of how to get rid of something/someone they don't like . . . kids are quick to pick up that kind of lesson and run with it. Those kinds of lessons are part of the basis or our increasing mindset that it's always someone else's fault/responsibility, never our own.

Why not teach the child a valuable lesson about how their actions have consequences? Not to mention lessons about respecting others.

[ACooper]

Sorry..........saying a two year old DESERVED to be bitten is about as CRAZY as saying a puppy needs hitting for having accidents in the house! :rolleyes: How is one different from the other?

Both need to be TAUGHT the proper ways to do things..........BY......YEP, the adult human in charge.

And I am right there with Sparks........If one of my dogs bit one of my kids they would HAVE to move out. Not necessarily destroyed, but they would need to GO. I teach my children, the same as I was taught.......but accidents can happen anytime. I would place them in a home with no children depending on the situation that took place.

But I will not live with a dog that I can not trust around kids.........there are kids in and out of here all the time and I won't live on the edge of my seat waiting for something to happen.

[puppydog]

I didn't say it was the childs fault, just that he deserved to get bitten for what he did. I am an extreemly analytical person who looks at things as in action and reaction.
No emotion here what so ever. Child hurt dog, dog retaliated.

[DryCreek]

A couple of stories along these lines...

When I was young, maybe 2-3 yrs old, I proceeded to crawl underneath the kitchen table to take a bone away from our dog. I got the bone and a bite on the nose for good measure. Got a couple of stitches for my trouble...Both parents were in the room, both yelled NO when they saw what I was doing, but I didn't listen (Per usual lol). I learned that day to never do that again. My parents kept the dog, nothing else happened and I learned an important lesson.

Years later, different dog. Our neighbors behind us, their older child was climbing the back yard fence with cookies in his hand. The dog snatched the cookie through the chain link and minorly hurt the kids finger in doing so. Dog was sent to pound for euthanasia. The ONLY reason I can think of for this scenario being different enough to warrent death was the fact that it was somebody else's child that was injured and their parents would have created a stink. But, the pound refused to destroy our dog as she was too nicely behaved to do that to, so my aunt adopted her and she lived out her days with never another incident.

Now, a dog that viciously attacked my daughter 15 years ago for bending down to pick up a ball they had been playing fetch with for 30 min previous with no trouble whatsoever was allowed to stay home for it's quarantine and was never offered nor ordered for destruction.

Yet, since 2005, my own dogs, who have never done anything themselves, are illegal and considered "dangerous".

Almost 40 years of having dealings with dogs and years learning about them for a career, and I have yet to see what would be considered an advancement of education or common sense when it comes to the issue of canines and their owners, let alone any good common sense legislation to deal with these issues.

The mother in the OP should have taken the time to stop the child and improve the situation, but if you look at the pic, the child seems fine with the dog and probably did learn that actions have consequences. Let's hope that the mother learned something as well!

[RD]

I was lucky to have grown up with a dog that was patient but firm in his warnings. I did get snarled and snapped at when I was a few years old, for ignoring my parents AND the dog's warnings to stop being a pest. Did it scare me? Yup. But I learned not to be a pest to dogs, and to stop doing something if it made them growl or stiffen up.

I grew up with dogs. Unattended. Large dogs with big teeth and two of them guard dogs with very nasty tempers. I wasn't ever bitten, because I learned to respect their feelings just as they respected mine.

Give kids some credit, they CAN be kind to animals but because people are so paranoid that the animal will hurt their kid, they often punish animals for displaying any kind of warnings at all. I have a friend who will yell at and remove her dog from a room if he growls at her son, who often pulls on his tail or sits on him. The dog is sociable and doesn't like to be separated from the family, so he's stopped growling. I just know that one day, the dog is going to snap at that kid without any warning at all. And he'll be put down for being "aggressive".

:(

[sparks19]

I was lucky to have grown up with a dog that was patient but firm in his warnings. I did get snarled and snapped at when I was a few years old, for ignoring my parents AND the dog's warnings to stop being a pest. Did it scare me? Yup. But I learned not to be a pest to dogs, and to stop doing something if it made them growl or stiffen up.

I grew up with dogs. Unattended. Large dogs with big teeth and two of them guard dogs with very nasty tempers. I wasn't ever bitten, because I learned to respect their feelings just as they respected mine.

Give kids some credit, they CAN be kind to animals but because people are so paranoid that the animal will hurt their kid, they often punish animals for displaying any kind of warnings at all. I have a friend who will yell at and remove her dog from a room if he growls at her son, who often pulls on his tail or sits on him. The dog is sociable and doesn't like to be separated from the family, so he's stopped growling. I just know that one day, the dog is going to snap at that kid without any warning at all. And he'll be put down for being "aggressive".

:(

hannah will most definitely be taught not to hurt the dogs. But my big concern is if a dog will snap the instant it feels pain... what if the pain is accidental? I don't want my dog to EVER think it is OK to bite Hannah. What if she is learning to walk and steps on their tail by accident? or falls and lands on their paw? Does she deserve a bite for that? Will it teach her a lesson? I doubt it... she is learning to walk and she doesn't have the control to learn that lesson. That is my issue. She won't ever be allowed to pester the dogs by pulling on their tails or anything like that.

Biting is just not acceptable to me. And there are PLENTY of dogs out there that live with kids that DON'T respect them and yet they have never bitten them. It's just not acceptable IMO. I do not think it is acceptable for a child to torture an animal and I would never tolerate it. She can learn from a swat on the butt rather than a bite to the face.