RE-Recall

[SharkBait]

More advice needed i'm afraid....

I've posted here about my pup (now 6 months old) Matisse, who won't come back to me when called.
I've taught him 'watch me' and 'touch it' and responds to them well when we're having a training session, with food rewards.

I let him out to go to the toilet in the garden from the utility, and if i leave him out for a few minutes or even let him outside to play for a while, and call him in again he ignores me! He looks right at me and doesn't budge. Then if i walk over to get him he'll run away, wanting me to play the 'catch me' game.

I'll try 'watch me' and 'touch it', but he just lets me know he's not interested, and even if i have treats. normally he's so food orientated he'll do anything for the treat, but if it's anything to do with 'come here' he simply ignores me.

The other day i was walking him down the street and accidentally dropped his lead, and he bolted into a garden. There was a busy road just beside us and he kept running away from me, then dodging me like it was a game. i eventually got to grab him because i told him to sit and stay which to my surprise actually worked (normally he'll stay for a few seconds, then runaway when i get close). But you can imagine my panic so i really want to get this sorted out.

The thing that annoys me the most about it is the fact that he knows exactly what 'come here' or patting my hands on my lap means, cause he'll do it on a training session when he knows he's getting food or just in general when he feels like it. :mad:

Does anyone know how i can fix this?

i always use food rewards when he does 'come here' but he still doesn't wanna know half the time! :(

A few people have said to do this- if he runs off, ignore him and walk in the other direction and totally ignore him, no looking, no calling, and within minutes they are so gobsmacked that you don't care they have to come and find out why.


Any input will be appreciated! :)

[Spirit2010]

I know how you feel. My 10 month old puppy does the same thing! :rolleyes: Lets have a "dog doesn't listen to me club" lol But keep him on a leash at all times! Hes a teenager now! And if you have had kids, then you will know. lol I'm a kid myself, but I don't have any kids. Keep working with him! Hes still young! You guys will get there! :) I don't have much advice, but that.

[sisco16]

I wish I had some good advice but I have the same thing she is almost two and would probably bolt if given the chance, Although never really tried it. She used to go straight from her kennel to the house without a leash but then she got smart and started wondering to the lake so know its all leash beacuse her recall is not the best unless were in a fenced in area.;)

[adojrts]

If I remember correctly, in the last thread you recieved some excellent advice on developing a solid recall.
Have you reread that thread and applied the methods? Is so, where is it going wrong?

[corgipower]

Coming when called while in a training session is a different exercise from coming when called when loose and playing.

I would keep the dog on a leash or if he's off leash find a way to get him to come without using the word ~ every time you use the word and he doesn't do it, he learns that he doesn't have to.

Start training in more locations. Train at the park, train while out on a walk, train while in the yard. Just periodically stop and say "come" and reward him when he does. The more different places you can do it, the more he'll start to generalize and begin to understand that the command means to come whereever he is. When you're playing with him, keep him on a long line. That way, if you say "come" you can reel him in if you need to.

Also, are you using treats for every time he comes to you? If so, I would begin to switch to a variable reward schedule.

[lizzybeth727]

Coming when called while in a training session is a different exercise from coming when called when loose and playing.
I'm not sure that I understand what you're saying here. To the dog, recalls with no distractions are a lot different than recalls with lots of distractions, but the exercise itself really should not be different.

I'm not going to go into detail about how to teach a recall, because I do remember talking about it a lot in your last thread. Is there anything there that you need clarifying??

I think, though, the advice about ignoring is a good place to start. Many times this works. I'd also suggest not always giving your dog attention when he comes to you looking for attention. This way your attention is more valuable, and he'll be ready to give you attention when you ask for it.

[corgipower]

I'm not sure that I understand what you're saying here. To the dog, recalls with no distractions are a lot different than recalls with lots of distractions, but the exercise itself really should not be different.

The exercise is different in different locations. Dogs are very geographically oriented. The dog comes when called in your living room ~ there is a carpet and a sofa. A TV in the corner, the hallway to the kitchen. Now take that dog in the back yard. Say "come" It becomes a new exercise because now there is grass, there's a breeze, there's a wood deck off to the right. Turn around in the yard. Once again it's a new exercise. Now the deck is on the left. And so on.

[lizzybeth727]

Ok, so yeah, it's different to the dog, but to the trainer, it should be basically the same.

[Island dog]

If I remember correctly, in the last thread you recieved some excellent advice on developing a solid recall.
Have you reread that thread and applied the methods? Is so, where is it going wrong?
I just read the thread you were referring to and it definitely has valuable information. Molly attended basic obedience, tricks, and is now in advanced. It never dawned on me to use 'touch' instead of 'come' when I know she won't. I'm going to try it tomorrow. I made the mistake of letting her off the long line (30 ft.) too soon, so I've had to go back to using it again. She also has a different attitude when she's got the long line on. The trainer advised that when we're sure of a solid recall to leave a short section of the rope (under a foot) attached so the feel of the long line is still there. The last lesson the trainer had us use 'Here!' very loud with our arms outstretched when the dog sees something and is taking off after it and the formal 'come' won't work. When the dog looks back we're supposed to step backwards and clap our hands to encourage the dog to return.

You've given me ways to expand on the lessons we've learned and hopefully make them more productive. To all who posted on that thread - thank you.

[lizzybeth727]

Shortening the leash is a good idea once your dog knows the recall, but I wouldn't shorten it from 30' to 1'. Instead you could just use a 6' leash, or even attach two 6' leashes together. Then shorten THAT to 6' or 1', if the recall is still good.

[SharkBait]

I know how you feel. My 10 month old puppy does the same thing! Lets have a "dog doesn't listen to me club" lol But keep him on a leash at all times! Hes a teenager now! And if you have had kids, then you will know. lol I'm a kid myself, but I don't have any kids. Keep working with him! Hes still young! You guys will get there! I don't have much advice, but that.

Thanks for the input, I'm not alone, yey! hehe
I'm a kid too... well 16 :p
I'm kind've hoping Matisse will become more obedient as he matures... he's just such a rascal at the moment.

If I remember correctly, in the last thread you recieved some excellent advice on developing a solid recall.
Have you reread that thread and applied the methods? Is so, where is it going wrong?

Yeah i did, I know you contributed a lot to thread, so thank you by the way :)

I've taught Matisse 'touch it' to use to try to get him to come back to me. He's great at it most of the time, but if he knows i want to bring him in from the garden or simply grab whatever is in his mouth (usually something that shouldn't be there) he'll just ignore me cause he knows I'm trying to catch him or bring him, or put him back on the leash.

Also, i tried out the 'catch me' game idea that i make him chase me then reward him if he does. I got him to chase me a few times, then i think the reason he continued to do so was because he knew i had treats, cause at this point he would stay beside me if i chased him.


I would keep the dog on a leash or if he's off leash find a way to get him to come without using the word ~ every time you use the word and he doesn't do it, he learns that he doesn't have to.

Also, are you using treats for every time he comes to you? If so, I would begin to switch to a variable reward schedule.

He knows if i pat my legs that it means 'come here,' but again, he often ignores me.
what should i do if say Matisse is in the yard, and i need him, and i call him a few times and he doesn't come to me?
Should i just close the door and leave him out for a while? cause eventually he'll want inside and sit beside the door. But i don't want him thinking he can come in just when he wants to.
Or do catch him to teach him if i say 'come here' he's gonna end up inside (even if it takes half an hour to catch him).
It seems like he's already learned that he doesn't have to come if i say it :confused:

Yes i use treats everytime he comes to me when i call him, shouldn't i? If he only comes to me on the 3rd (or 30th) call, should i still give him treats for coming back or...? And could you explain what the variable reward schedule is please?

Thanks loads for everyone's input :]

[corgipower]

I've taught Matisse 'touch it' to use to try to get him to come back to me. He's great at it most of the time, but if he knows i want to bring him in from the garden or simply grab whatever is in his mouth (usually something that shouldn't be there) he'll just ignore me cause he knows I'm trying to catch him or bring him, or put him back on the leash.

This is where you need to be smarter than the dog. He believes you want to catch him to bring him in or to take something from him. So trick him. Act like you want to bring him in, but then when you do catch him, pet him, play with him and release him.

Also, i tried out the 'catch me' game idea that i make him chase me then reward him if he does. I got him to chase me a few times, then i think the reason he continued to do so was because he knew i had treats, cause at this point he would stay beside me if i chased him.

If he's staying beside you, that's a good thing!! Repeat the process in the next session.

He knows if i pat my legs that it means 'come here,' but again, he often ignores me.
what should i do if say Matisse is in the yard, and i need him, and i call him a few times and he doesn't come to me?
Should i just close the door and leave him out for a while? cause eventually he'll want inside and sit beside the door. But i don't want him thinking he can come in just when he wants to.
Or do catch him to teach him if i say 'come here' he's gonna end up inside (even if it takes half an hour to catch him).
It seems like he's already learned that he doesn't have to come if i say it :confused:

You already know that he's not likely to come when you call him. So don't call him. Lure him to you, or play the chase game with him ~ since that seems to work. Don't use any commands yet. When he does come to you, whether in response to a lure, or in response to a chase game, or simply because he wants to, reward him and play with him, and then let him continue playing.

He would probably benefit from having the recall shaped with clicker training. Just sit or stand or quietly walk around. Any time he looks at you, click and reward. Then start upping the criteria ~ he needs to look at you and take a step in your direction. Then he needs to take a couple steps in your direction. Gradually building it until he needs to get to you before he gets rewarded. No commands.

Once he is eager to come to you ~ because coming doesn't always mean going inside or coming doesn't always mean you're taking something from him, then you can start adding a command. Also, I would do fun things with him when you bring him in. A toy or a special treat so that he doesn't view coming inside as something to avoid.

If you are in a situation where you don't have time to wait him out, keep him on a leash.

A variable reward schedule is where you don't reward every occurence of the behavior. You reward every other, then every third, then you might reward the fifth, then the second, then two in a row. It varies so that the dog doesn't know which time he'll get the reward.

[SharkBait]

Wow that is some valuable advice there corgipower, thank you! I'm off to try this out once i've printed this page! :)