shaping a "hold"

[Maxy24]

I bought a clicker a while ago and am trying to train Phoebe to hold something I ask her to. Today was the first day we did it so I started with this annoying cat toy she likes. When she is in the presence of food she will not play though so getting her to grab it was not easy. So I clicked and treated for her touching it with her nose for about three times then when she went to touch it with her nose I wiggled it around so she would miss and eventually she went and gave it a nip so I clicked and treated. I did it with multiple objects so she got the idea. So now we are where every time she will nibble it or grab it with the tip of her teeth but I can't get her to get an actual grip on the toy. How can I encourage her to take a real good bite? later I will work on her actually holding it but for now she has to use her back teeth.

[Khalid]

Usually reward for the desiarable action is the usual way to train the dogs.....If you like her to use or do a certain thing reward her immediately so she knows that this action will be rewardful......
Cheers....

[lizzybeth727]

Wow, the above advice is helpful, but let me give my own two cents.

First, one trick that I learned recently is to start teaching hold with some object that's not a toy. Dogs have associated toys with shaking, chewing, and other behaviors that are not conducive to actually holding, and you'll eventually get a dog that chews or shakes the remote when you teach him to retrieve that (as I know from personal experience!). This is why the "real" (BIG quotes there) trainers use plastic or wooden dumbells to teach hold and retrieve.

You're certainly on the right track, as far as shaping the bite. To progress from here, you can continue clicking when she just puts her teeth on the object, until that's the only thing she does (no licking, touching with nose, or anything else). By this point, she will probably be biting slightly harder on a few of them, so you can jackpot those. When you're getting more than half harder bites, you can stop rewarding light bites. Then just progress this until she's biting harder and harder, and using more of her mouth.

Another option would be when she's putting her teeth on the object every time, don't click the first time she puts her teeth on it, wait until she does it a second time to click. It'll probably be easier to click about 2/3 of the first mouthing, and 1/3 of two mouthings. Then gradually move to more and more two mouthings. Dogs usually will start to get frustrated and grab it harder or longer out of frustration. So again, jackpot harder or longer mouthings.

Not sure if all that made sense, let me know if you need clarification.

[Maxy24]

Wow, the above advice is helpful, but let me give my own two cents

yes it sure was an eye opener LOL.

I completely understand what your saying. I did switch from the cat toy to a dog toy to a beanie baby to a ruler just so she would understand that the cue applied to all objects not just one. Then because she was doing such small bites I wanted to get something light and thin enough for her to get a full grip and so when I want her to hold on to it herself it won't feel like a lot of weight at first so I got a pencil. She decided she hated the taste of the pencil (when I offered it after the first time she pulled her ears back and avoided looking at it) So I got an empty toilet paper roll and flattened it and that's what we are using now. She did give me one full on good bite but just the one. At the beginning she started to speed up and barely nibble the object so I stopped clicking unless it was at least a bite and so she stopped with the less than nibble stuff. I'll probably go with jack potting the harder bites. When she was doing a few bigger bites I decided to not reward the smallest ones but after not being rewarded twice she gave up quickly so I don't think she's ready yet. Clicker training and shaping is brand new for us so she's not used to having me change criteria like this but she is learning at an exceptionally fast rate for her, I must say I'm impressed. I'll work with her tomorrow hopefully and tell you how it goes!

[lizzybeth727]

Sounds like you're doing a great job. You'll definately know if you're going too fast when your dog gives up! Unfortunately that's an effective way for US to learn!

At this point, too, I'd stick to the toilet paper tube (great idea, I didn't think about that one), until you have a reliable hold - the finished behavior - before switching to a different object. Of course generalizing to lots of objects is important, but it's less confusing to your dog when she has a clear understanding of the behavior.