White GSD

[Lizmo]

Are the white GSD's, basically, acceptable?

They're BEAUITFUL dogs. Definitely I breed I would consider owning.

[bubbatd]

They used to be culled at whelp ... but some are actually breeding them today . No , white is not accepted .

[FoxyWench]

grammy covered it...
it is an undesirable trait and most have MANY health issues (more than gsds are prone too, especially since the ones breeding them are byb's)

however they occasionally show up in shelters...in which case, give one a good home :)

[Lizmo]

Thats too bad. I knew a lady who had two. Sweetest dogs. Lizzie loved to play with the female. Gorgeous too.

[Tankstar]

They are beutiful And are registerd as a german shepherd, although not allowed in the conformation ring. the FCI does recognize them as a seperate breed called "Berger Blanc Suisse". Tehy are just german shepherds that are white. Many people are working any making them a seperate breed.

I'm not sure if she is on these boards (I dont think so) but there is a lady that has a service dog that is a white GSD. Normally uses the username NicoleJ I think. She knows TONS on the white GSD.

[PWCorgi]

Aren't they recognized by the UKC?

My American Lit. teacher has one and he's gorgeous and has a great temperment.

[Tankstar]

Aren't they recognized by the UKC?

My American Lit. teacher has one and he's gorgeous and has a great temperment.

Yes they are, just not allowed in the conformation ring.

[drmom777]

Actually the UKC doubly recognizes the White German Shepherd. They register it separately as the White Shepherd, and it has its own classes at conformation shows. In addition this is the section of the official UKC German Shepherd Dog breed standard relating to color.

Color
The German Shepherd Dog comes in many colors and white. In evaluating colored dogs, strong, deep colors are preferred. Nose, lips, and eyerims must have dark pigment, regardless of coat color. Color faults are minor in comparison to defects of type and structure.

Serious faults: Pale, washed-out colors; blue; liver.

Disqualification: Albinism.

So, you see, it's just the AKC in its infinite wisdom that has decreed that German Shepherd dogs can't be white. It's just that some people take the AKC as the be-all and end-all of dog information and conclude that if the AKC says it is true it must be true.

[Romy]

grammy covered it...
it is an undesirable trait and most have MANY health issues (more than gsds are prone too, especially since the ones breeding them are byb's)

however they occasionally show up in shelters...in which case, give one a good home :)

This isn't necessarily true. There are some very good breeders working on white GSDs. As a whole, if you get into the white GSD community, the animals tend to have better health and temperaments than the general GSD population as there are a lot more BYBers that work with standard colors. Beware of people who claim what whites are "Smarter", "more trainable", and "wolf-like". These are the BYBers.

People that breed whites that I have met, place a huge emphasis on temperament, and health, and are very serious about health testing. As with any breed or strain of dog there are BYBers, so you do have to be cautious. Some police departments are beginning to turn to white shepherds for police work, as most police dog fatalities are from friendly fire. They are also required to announce to a suspect that they are releasing a police dog, and so having a highly visible white animal is a good thing. I think because the number of people seriously working with these dogs is still pretty limited, it is easier to find a healthy stable animal.

Because of their visibility, they are getting to be really desirable as service animals as well.

An interesting note, white was not made a disqualifying color in the AKC until the 1970s. Not entirely sure of the politics of it, but it was a pretty recent decision.

Edit: Here is a link to the website of the awesome folks working to preserve/improve the genetics of white german shepherd dogs. http://www.wgsdca.org/thebreed/index.asp

[bubbatd]

A friend of mine's son breeds them ...... really not a true BYB but has gotten to the point where all are white . I just don't like playing with Mother Nature .

[FoxyWench]

i must be unlucky then, all of the whites ive ever met are from bad byb's and have serious helth issues (more so even than some of the byb "regular" german shepards)

i dont know much about the UKC

im sure if properly bred they are just as wonderfull, just like with any breed, i guess a repoint would be if you were buying one, be EXTRA carefull screening your breeder. :)

[RedyreRottweilers]

Actually the UKC doubly recognizes the White German Shepherd. They register it separately as the White Shepherd, and it has its own classes at conformation shows. In addition this is the section of the official UKC German Shepherd Dog breed standard relating to color.

Color
The German Shepherd Dog comes in many colors and white. In evaluating colored dogs, strong, deep colors are preferred. Nose, lips, and eyerims must have dark pigment, regardless of coat color. Color faults are minor in comparison to defects of type and structure.

Serious faults: Pale, washed-out colors; blue; liver.

Disqualification: Albinism.

So, you see, it's just the AKC in its infinite wisdom that has decreed that German Shepherd dogs can't be white. It's just that some people take the AKC as the be-all and end-all of dog information and conclude that if the AKC says it is true it must be true.


The AKC does not decree anything regarding breed standards. Breed standards are written, and are owned by, the individual national breed clubs.

[joce]

There is a crazy man who lives by my cousin who used to breed them. He fenced in his yard though so the dogs could breed freely and now the white seems to have disappeared:rolleyes: This guy has literally 100 dogs and nothing anyone can do because they are fed-look inbred and sick but they have food and water. But thats a whole nother story. Thats my only experience with them and they are sickly but I blame that all on the idiot who owns them.

[Romy]

Aww, sorry to hear about that Joce. Those poor dogs.

One other thing I forgot to tell you to watch our for, are people advertising "Giant" white shepherds. Some are byb, some those folks really screen hard for hip and elbow problems, but the best ones are the folks that outcross to really healthy colored lines and try to keep their dogs within the GSD standard (barring color of course).

[bubbatd]

Joce ... that is so dumb of the owners !!!! Who knows who bred to who !!! He should be turned in .

[noludoru]

I don't have anything to contribute to the white shepherd debate.. but good god.. I think I'm going to STRANGLE the next person who tells me they want such and such breed in a particular color. I'm going to see one of our family friends today, and he has two boys who are a few years younger than me and are dead set on buying a $5,000, "guard dog trained," Black [Insert an impressive name here that came straight from a puppymill] German Shepherd. A puppy (An ATTACK-trained puppy?). If you're laughing or groaning right now, you're not the only one. They have two dogs at their mom's house, both with severe behavioral issues, and their dad has never had a dog before, so I'm trying to convince him to go to the VA GSD Rescue. *sighhhhh* They have older dogs who are housebroken, crate trained, basic obedience-trained, etc that will suit their needs far better. These guys really do have the best intentions.. but good god.. their dad knows nada about dogs and is basically letting the thirteen year old do all the research. I'm beyond appalled.

[fillyone]

grammy covered it...
it is an undesirable trait and most have MANY health issues (more than gsds are prone too, especially since the ones breeding them are byb's)

however they occasionally show up in shelters...in which case, give one a good home :)

It's a crock that WGSDs have any more health issues than any other GSD. The white is caused by a masking gene, it's not albinoism

[bubbatd]

Why do people want to buy trouble !!! Get a gun and let a dog enjoy life !

[FoxyWench]

It's a crock that WGSDs have any more health issues than any other GSD. The white is caused by a masking gene, it's not albinoism

again aparently ive been unlucky but ive NEVER met a well bred white gsd and in comparison to "regular" gsds ive seen the whites tend to be more prone to health problmes...
this is based on my personal expereince as well as my vets, mabe i just live in an area with a high voume of very badly bred white gsds...

[protodog]

The whites I've met have been, on average, healthier and better tempered (and certainly far less nervous) than their standard-colored counterparts. However, the coolest GSD I know is tan with a black saddle.

[DanL]

There is a white GSD in our working dog club. He's healthy and robust but he's got temperament issues that would preclude him from being what anyone would consider a good GSD. He's not a real strong dog though, and really shouldn't be doing the type of training we do at the club. He'd be a good obedience dog, but bite work is not something he'll ever be good at. He's fearful and shows way too much avoidance when the decoy puts any amount of pressure on him. To me, that's what you get when you have a GSD that is bred for color or other traits, like looking nice in the show ring. The breed's other characteristics are watered down too much.

[mrose_s]

Here they now have their own recognised standared as White Shepherds. I don't know a lot about them but they are aceptable to show and breed here. I know one breder (I know OF them... on a forum) that is fighting for her breed and does an amazing job, working hard to make the breed more healthy, however.. Mini Aussies are looked down upon

[showdawgz]

How would you descirbe a "well tempered" GSD? I'm assuming it is far off of the original standard, as most people do not understand a true GSD, white or not.

[DanL]

Not sure who your question was directed at showdawgz, but to me, a well tempered GSD would be:

Calm and easy going in general, but protective when needed. Confident and fearless in the face of danger. Aloof- acknowledge visitors but not climb all over them for attention. Poised and intelligent.

[Lizmo]

Thanks for the info :)

So does the AKC register the "White Shepherd"?

[showdawgz]

No I was not directing that question to you Dan. I was refferring to those who say white shepherds have better temperaments, when I've only seen fearful ones and ones who NEEDED attention from everyone. Neither temperaments fit the true standard of a GSD.

[Zoom]

So what's your definition of a true GSD temperment then?

[colliewog]

Thanks for the info :)

So does the AKC register the "White Shepherd"?

No, the AKC doesn't recognize the White Shepherd, but they will register the white GSD, they just can't compete in conformation events.

[HoundedByHounds]

UKC had a breed called the White Shepherd. They are lovely and the ones I've met at shows have been nice dogs. UKC also allows the white GSD's to compete with the GSD's in a separate class I beleive. The WS is a separate breed with UKC.

http://unitedwhiteshepherdclub.org/

[showdawgz]

So what's your definition of a true GSD temperment then?

Dan pretty much summed it up. GSD's should be confident and self assured (although it is ok for some to be "sharp), not agressive but protective (can distinguish a true threat and think before reacting), and aloof. People dont seem to understand that, and expect my dogs to fawn over you and if they dont then they are "mean" or "antisocial".

[Boemy]

IMO, once you start breeding primarily for an "unusual" color you're asking for trouble. In any breed. What justifies these dogs to be a separate breed, other than "they're so pretty"? Correct me if I'm wrong, but if a white shepherd and a German shepherd are mated, won't all the babies have dark coats? (Unless the German shepherd carries a recessive gene for white, which I imagine is very rare?) If so, that severely limits the amount of breeding stock available for white shepherds. Personally, I wouldn't risk it. I would get a usual colored German shepherd if I were interested in that kind of dog.

[showdawgz]

double post...

[DanL]

Aloof is a funny description, but accurate. If any one of you came to my house, Gunnar would come up to you, sniff you, let you pet him a bit, maybe lick your hand, and then he's done. He'll go lay down. Unless we're outside and he brings you a toy, and you are dumb enough to throw it for him. Because once that starts, you can't end it!

[mrose_s]

Thats one of the things i love about working breeeds, they they don't need to be all over people. Buster defends untill he knows everyone is fine, then he sniffs then looses interset.

[pafla]

In Europe white GSD is recognized as White Swiss Shepherd by FCI-Federation Cynologique Internationale and they compete in dog shows.Standard has very few differences from standard of American-Canadian White Shepherd


Temperament for American-Canadian White Shepherd
The White Shepherd has a distinct personality marked by a direct, but not hostile expression of self-confidence. It is poised but when the situation demands, it should be eager and alert, ready to serve in any capacity such as companion, watch dog or service dog. To his inherent aptitude as a guardian of flocks should be an added protectiveness of the person and property of his family. With those he knows well, he should be open and friendly. With strangers, he should be observant and may be somewhat aloof but never apprehensive. Timidity, shrinking behind the handler, lack of confidence or any other display of poor character or aggression are severe faults. Dogs displaying such pronounced character flaws should be excused from the ring. Any dog that attempts to bite the judge must be disqualified.

[DanL]

The problem with that description is that too many white GSDs are timid, fear biters, and generally lacking in the desired traits because they are being bred for color. When you breed for color, the other traits take a back seat.

[Dekka]

its not just when you breed for colour..its when you breed for one trait, at the expense of the others. Most show breeders breed for colour to a point. Breeds standards will require certian colours of pigment, toenails fur etc. In most cases I find it ridiculous. If it doesn't' affect the dogs working ability, health or temperament what diff does colour make?

[milos_mommy]

I think it'd result in health problems. Especially breeding white to white.

[pafla]

This is a question of good versus bad breeders and not good or bad breed.I have seen only a couple of this dogs and they all had sound temperament.Perhaps the reason for this is that they are not very popular breed in Croatia and their is only a handful of breeders who keep temperament of the breed in mind when breeding.I have no idea how many of breeders abroad keep to this,but than again those who dont are bad breeders.
I cant see anything wrong in breeding for a certain colour if one pay attention on dogs temperament and health.I love GSDs but only working lines.There are many black GSDs between them and they are used for army and military service.This dogs do not fit any show standard and to me this dogs are much better looking than any show GSD in any colour.I am saying this because someone said that getting a dog with a certain coluor is stupid-in another thread.Now a couple weeks back I was offered a black GSD bitch -9 month old from army-military breeding.She is a beauty,doesnt fit any GSD standard-by looks and has a good temperament.If I hadnt fall in love with groens I would have probably taken her.She went to a good home-I meet her to day.So what exactly is wrong in liking a dog in particular colour and why is it different wanting a GSD in certain colour if you get a dog from a reputable bredeer who has dogs who have a good temperament and are healthy.And how is it different from wanting a chocolate lab for example.

[joce]

Joce ... that is so dumb of the owners !!!! Who knows who bred to who !!! He should be turned in .



But to who? Its not against any laws here(no limit on how many dogs and supposedly there is a kennel license for the property) and he isn't registering the pups so he can't get those rights taken away. The Dog warden has been out there multiple times and the erie shores guy my cousin goes through went down to talk with him about spaying and neutering thinking he just had it get out of control. The man actually said he doesn't believe in getting dogs altered. He told him instead of a contract to alter he tells them to breed to continue the great lines:rolleyes: There are literally pups of every age running around.

I need to get pics one of these times I go by. You can't even imagine:(

[Lizmo]

So, if a dog is working bred, white GSD, and has a good temperment and all the necessary things for a good working GSD, would it be wrong to breed them?

[drmom777]

So, if a dog is working bred, white GSD, and has a good temperment and all the necessary things for a good working GSD, would it be wrong to breed them?

Assuming all health testing has been done, etc. I guess it would depend on what your goals are, and on which registry you are affiliated with. I assume that if this was a UKC shepherd it would be no peoblem at all.

[HoundedByHounds]

white to whte breeding does not always carry risk. Let's not forget that some breeds ONLY come in white...lol.

[Miakoda]

I'm just more interested in the motives behind someone wanting to breed only for a specific color. Marketing ploy? Make more money off "rare" dogs? And because of that, I stay far, far, far away from people doing that to dogs.

Stick with what the breed was bred for, a working breed, and breed for working ability.