Small Dogs (Need Help)

[darkchild16]

OK I want another dog in the next year or two when I get ready to move out to keep Walker company. But at that time I cant have a fila I already know that and wont have the time to properly raise one either. SO with the Fila prospect in the future and Walker I have decided my next dog will be small like under 20 lbs small. But I want one that is independent, with a pit bull terrier like personality. What would be my best bet in a breed. I will be rescuing or going to the shelter.

[Giny]

Boston Terrier? They are small but rugged little guys and would be a good choice when the baby is here.

[oc_spirit]

Patterdale/Staffordshire Bull Terrier - a very common cross used by hunters. Sometimes they do Patterdale/APBT and/or throw in some Jag Terrier blood in there too. All are amazing dogs though with TONS of personality! They MUST be worked though or else your living space will be in shambles LOL The only thing is I highly recommend that it be the opposite gender from that which you hope your fila to be. These guys can get quite DA and it would simply be easier to introduce a new pup of the opposite sex than of the same sex. I have seen pictures of these guys on everything from coons to fox to even BOAR!

If you want I can get some pictures for you.

[darkchild16]

I was thinking Boston too but Ive been told they arent that independent.

And i know the mix your talking about OC and to get one around here you have to go through a breeder most of the time and i jsut want to help a older dog that can be a friend to Walker.

[Giny]

Oh, shoot, I didn't see the independent part of your post. What about a Basenji?

[darkchild16]

Didnt think of them HMMM. I thought they got bigger then 20lbs tho. Ill have to look em up. Nope males shouldnt be bigger then 24 lbs.

[Zoom]

Basenji would definitely be independent! My trainer has one and while she's made her basenji into her demo dog for obedience classes and traveling companion, she also got one that is strictly show lines, about 4 generations out of Africa and has lost a lot of that "independent hunter" that you see in dogs straight out of Africa or bred to keep the working instinct intact. She's a neat little dog though.

[darkchild16]

I need an independent dog and i think thats the only type of dog that can handle my gang and my lifestyle

[FoxyWench]

id focus on either the working or terrier group for what your looking for...sighhounds might work too but might be TOO independant lol, there very aloof

possibly a staffy/staffy mix
a mini bull terrier/mix
jack/parsons russel
cairn, norwhich and norfolk terriers would also work personality wise, strong willed clowns with a good amount of energy and indpenendant.

[darkchild16]

I love the norfolk terrier but i never knew they were independent. I love sighthounds actually. I have a grey remember LOL.

[FoxyWench]

norfolks are nice middle ground, they do like their peoples attention and will be happy to curl up next to you on the couch...
but when it comes to keeping themselves busy or work time, they can ve overly independant.

since you like the sighties, a whippet mabe. they are essnetially perosnality wise small greys.
id suggest a crestie, but they are inlove with their people lol.

[darkchild16]

The only thing i can forsee is they seem so fragile.

the norfolk sounds perfect.

[FoxyWench]

norfolks are a blast, little balls of perpetual motion lol.

just be carefull of small animals...lol.
my cousin has 3 and bells on the collar are musts for them as the dogs kept brinigng in rats and small birds, gifts are nice but when its a half mangled rat carcass on your new carpet...not so thankfull lol

[darkchild16]

Lol try 2 dogs that like to do that and the animals they can bring are a whole lot bigger. Dead things dont bother me LOL. The size thing i have actually gotten used to with my moms havanese i never thought i would but i have.

[FoxyWench]

sounds like youd be a great norfolk owner..many cant handle the wirey terriers due to their strong personalities (they assume little dog= easy personality)

[darkchild16]

HA grow up with mastiffs and pit bulls that work then you learn stubborn LOL. If i cna handle them i cna handle a small dog with an attitude LOL

[Georgygirl]

Boston terriers are very much like boxers in the personality department, very GOOFY. They are very tough little dogs though. They don't really play well with littler dogs most of the time because they're so intense. Joey's often a little too much for Roxie. I wouldn't call them independent. They usually love people and being around them. Joey likes to have me around, but he doesn't really need me to have fun. He runs around playing with Roxie or toys and is content to just have me in the room. When Roxie wasn't here, he was much more of an attention seeker.

[darkchild16]

ok thanks. still i have one attention ***** already LOL

[noludoru]

JRTs.. Dekka and Lynn could probably chime in best.

Don't rule out Cairns, though.... they are VERY hardy little critters. Love their people, and all people in general, but are also quite independent. Plenty of energy, and they are very rough and tumble dogs...... the ones I know play like BIG dogs, and can intimidate labs in play.

[darkchild16]

I just dont like the fact that they are so furry LOL.

[FoxyWench]

the cairs, norfolks and norwiches all have a similar coat, tends to be coarse and low upkeep for a pet.

[darkchild16]

AHHH i always though cairns had more a yorkie type coat. (i dont know much about small breeds)

[noludoru]

Cairns have a medium-to-full wiry coat that if left uncut can grow down to the ground. Pet-quality Cairns tend to have thinner, softer coats, it seems to me. You can shave them or clip them, and they are very wash-n-wear type coats.. if left a few inches long they are more than warm enough for winter.

ze little speedbump (Arabella)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/KitKitty7/SPEEDBUMP.jpg

Two speedbumps together (Belly and Teddy)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/KitKitty7/Pshoot034.jpg

Two speedbumps eating dead turtle
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/KitKitty7/Pshoot069.jpg

Sabrina in her 'mohawk' from this winter.. ROFL! It had grown out a bit, but when you shave her down she looks quite trim, whereas she can be quite shaggy looking when long.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/KitKitty7/AsilsBirthday011.jpg

[darkchild16]

Awww they are so cute. Are they as independent as the Norfolk? I see you also have a big dog how did they do when he/she was introduced?

[irenafarm]

Check around your local rescue groups and shelters. Depending on where you are, they may have some of the dogs from the VA puppymill closing (1000 dogs, almost all small breeds of every type).

[darkchild16]

Right now i cant but after the summer i prolly will.

[noludoru]

Awww they are so cute. Are they as independent as the Norfolk? I see you also have a big dog how did they do when he/she was introduced?

Oh good god they're not mine LOL. My neighbor bought Bree from a pet store (puppy mill puppy) and wanted to breed her... she got in contact with a very bad breeder who shows the dogs to their Ch and then will breed with any Cairn who comes knocking, and had puppies. They all went to good homes to my knowledge, however.

Cairns are fairly domineering.. there are the oddballs, of course, but most of them are a bit dominant. Same-sex aggression isn't unheard of. When introduced to new dogs the ones I know have been SUPER friendly and just wanna play play play! Middie was actually the one who wasn't too sure about the puppies, at first. I think he thought they were some annoying form of yapping rabbit. Once they got to be more doglike he wanted to play as much as they did. These dogs can keep their own with BIG dogs.. and are not afraid to play rough (even roughER than many medium sized dogs... since the only small dogs Middie has ever known have been Cairns I'm actually worried to let him play with other small ones as he'll undoubtedly think they are equally drivey and indestructible). They LOVE the outdoors and have other typical terrier traits and lots of barking, digging, wanting to stay out all night.... you know the drill. While they are truly devoted to their people and generally love any human no matter how cranky the human is, they aren't necessarily an in-your-face type of dog and won't be glued to your side, and will often want to do other things. You're a good trainer so I doubt you'll have issues with that, though.

[darkchild16]

OH sorry i didnt think Ive heard you say anything about Cairns before LOL. They sound like theyd fit too. ACK this is harder then I thought LOL.

[drmom777]

You might also consider a beagle. They are certainly independent and stubborn enough to please anyone. There are always Beagles in shelters too, because of people who know nothing going out and getting a "snoopy" for their kids.

I never had one before, but mine is stubborn, smart, exceptionaslly strong willed, and almost nauseatingly cute. Also massively food driven. She packs a ton of personality into her 19 lbs and rules by the divine right of Beagle.

Now, Mini does not howl incessantly at all, in fact she is pretty quiet, but we don't leave her alone for long periods either. I think most of the nuisance howlers are just really bored.

[darkchild16]

Oh i know all about Beagle LOL. I grew up with a friend who bred them to hunt. Part of the reason Im not sure they would be good for me is because I live in the city which I know they do good in but I also have a Coonhound and I know how much happier he is in the country then here in the city.

[noludoru]

Well, I think having several breeds that fit your criteria is a GOOD thing.. you have more options AND more knowledge when you go to a shelter. You might not find a dog in only one of the breeds you're looking at at the shelter, but since you have several you like then you're bound to find a dog that fits your criteria more quickly!

[darkchild16]

I was most likely going to go through a breed rescue you basically get pit mixes here very few small dogs.

[Dekka]

Whippets aren't as fragile as they look. But I can't say that my two, (or the ones I have met) are all that independent. JRTs are good, and there are LOADS in rescues. It depends how much 'terrier' you are into. If you aren't into the extreem terrierness of JRTs, A cairn or norfolk would be a nice option. Not nearly so.... extreme lol

[darkchild16]

Ill put it this way I LOVE APBT for their personality LOL. Terrierness has nothing to do with it I love terriers.

[Dekka]

Well if you ever want a JRT there are lots in rescue around the country, maybe not in your area.

[darkchild16]

I know around here there are a bunch in breed rescues. I wasnt sure how independent they were though

[stevinski]

border terrier, very independent dogs, but really lovable when you want them to be

[Ratboy]

You might also consider a beagle. They are certainly independent and stubborn enough to please anyone. There are always Beagles in shelters too, because of people who know nothing going out and getting a "snoopy" for their kids.

I never had one before, but mine is stubborn, smart, exceptionaslly strong willed, and almost nauseatingly cute. Also massively food driven. She packs a ton of personality into her 19 lbs and rules by the divine right of Beagle.

Now, Mini does not howl incessantly at all, in fact she is pretty quiet, but we don't leave her alone for long periods either. I think most of the nuisance howlers are just really bored.


You described my old Beagle, Farfel to a "T". He was amazingly stubborn, and had to be watched around food at all times. He ate the entire ham my mother had put on the kitchen counter to cool off, not thinking he could get up there without a chair next to it. He used the door handles for a ladder, and just climbed up. I don't remember why it was left out as long as it was, but when my mom came back in, Farfel was passed out asleep, with a huge gut on him. Didn't hurt him any, he slept all night and was back to his vaccuum cleaner normal self in the morning. That ham was at least 5 pounds, and even figuring him being about 40+ pounds (Big field type), that's about 1/8 his body weight!

He had one habit that drove us nuts his entire life. He seemed to be able to detect motion insanely well. We would be asleep, and he would look out the window and see something a quarter mile away, and sound "Red Alert!". The noise he could make was crazy loud, he would practically explode with a "BAHOOOOOROOOOROOOO!" and start bouncing off the walls. Sometimes I would actually see what he was looking at, but a lot of the time, I couldn't. The look he had on his face was really funny, his eyes would pop out about a half inch every time he bayed, and he would curl his lips up like he was blowing a horn.

I don't know how many times I would be asleep in the chair, and he would flip out, making me about fly out of the chair when he went off a couple of feet away. There was never a warning, just the explosion of baying. He was loud enough that a lot of the time, you could hear the window buzz from just the power of his baying. We had some brass poles at the end of the family room and they would "sing" when he went off. People would come over for the first time and say two things, "Wow, I've never seen that big a Beagle before!", and "Wow, he's really loud!" One of the funny things he did was when someone would come over and sit on one of his favorite places in the family room, the left end of either of the two couches, he would sit somewhere, and stare at them with a disgusted look on his face and sigh repeatedly.

He wasn't a cuddly dog, that's for sure, he didn't like being held, but he would play tug of war for hours, and chase the ball too. He just wouldn't give it back very well. He would look like he was about to chew the hand off of anyone who would dare reach for the ball, but it was all an act, if you didn't try to get the ball, he would come over and plop down, just out of your reach and put on a big show about what a good time he was having with it, then when you reached for it, he put on this big snarling display, while his tail was spinning. He loved it. My friend's little brothers and sisters would get right in his face and snarl like him and about half the time, all it got was a quick lick on the nose, then it would be back to the fake snarling.

He was a very dominant dog, but tolerated puppies amazingly well, and little kids were his favorites, along with old ladies that didn't like him. If a dog tried to dominate him though, well, that was a different story. He wouldn't tolerate it very well at all. But if a dog was his friend, he would let them do anything to him and just love it.

[mrose_s]

lol I was thiking JRT's and ACD's.
Staffy's are brilliant little dogs, the shelters are packed ot the brink with them here, yet to meet a mean one, all are so happy go lucky but can be velcro dogs.

[chanda]

I also think that a Boston Terrier will be a good choice but there are still other smaller breed out there...

[darkchild16]

Staffies and APBT's are alot alike and they are velcro dogs. They can be independent but if you are in the house they have got to be right on you most of the time and tehy are to big.

I love Bostons but everyone that Ive known wasnt that independent.

Ratboy thats the size she had but like you said field lines. They are peculiar great little dogs.

I actually thought about a Border too but you dont see that many around here and I doubt there is a rescue for them close to me. I havent heard of one in all my years working with rescues at least.