okay, I think I found my breeder

[mrose_s]

http://web3.foxinternet.net/pep-lill/
health tests yes
working dogs yes
prefer agility and herding homes

I know someone on another forum with 2 of their dogs. I was going to ask her where she got them but foudn the site first.
They state on their sitethey are careful when breeding as it is a privelage not a right and their dogs are sold on a desexing contract

But.. I want you guys to double check it. Because I've never brought from a breeder before and I can be an idiot when someone puts a cute dog in front of me.

[Fran27]

Looks good, couldn't find their contract/guarantie though.

[mrose_s]

http://web3.foxinternet.net/pep-lill/pendinglitters.html

this page has this on it

As the name Blue Moon Guirmere implies, we do not breed often.
I do not take breeding lightly and consider it a privilege and responsibility.
I take great care in choosing the homes for our puppies,
and our litters are sold in advance by reservation only.


Agility or herding homes are preferred.

Our parents are screened for hip disorders and DNA screened for CEA and CL.
Pups are microchiped, wormed and vaccinated prior to placement.

We take great care in socializing our puppies, they live in the house and are exposed to a variety of positive experiences as they mature.

All Blue Moon puppies are sold on desexed contract.



no doubt a lot more contact is needed with the actual breeder, took me a while to find my way through they're entire site but i'm pretty impressed with the stuff they have on there so far.

[Lizmo]

I think it's a bit strange they sell ALL their puppies on s/n contracts, but to each his own.

Good choice it looks like :)

[RD]

Well, to be honest, this looks kinda like a sport breeder to me, mrose. Is that what you're looking for?

They claim to work their dogs, but it sure doesn't seem like work is their priority. Most of their dogs seem to spend a ton of time doing agility and flyball, but I don't see many records of their dogs competing in sheepdog trials -- and that's probably because it's difficult to train a dog to be a competent sheepdog and a competitive agility/obedience/flyball dog at the same time.

I don't know much about the breeder or their dogs, their website just makes it seem like sport is their priority.

[mrose_s]

I did wonder about that aswell and I'll ask about it when I email them. It also does seem that a lot of people by them looking for agility homes whereas the way I read it it looks to me more like he breeds wanting workers.

I need to learn more about herding first anyway, and I don't know if its so bad to have sheep for your dogs as opposed to having dogs for your sheep. Either way, if done properly can produce good workers.

all that matters is his brain,
temperament, reactions to work and the consistency of his
performance behind sheep. If he has a cast, a wide gather, a strong
eye to single out a required sheep; if he moves freely, never barks,
never bites; if he is prepared to take orders, is affectionate
towards those he knows, regards his master as a sort of god and the
sheep pastures as the equivalent of heaven, then and only then can
he be called a first class specimen of his breed.


breeding goals

To maintain and improve their working talents by carefully selecting proven working dogs. Dogs that are natural out runners and flankers but still can hold the line. Stylish and confident workers, that control their stock but also settle them. Dogs that are keen and have a lot of heart.



This is why I post this here though, as soon as someone puts a merle dog in front of me I got to pieces as is lol. I have a few years yet t make up my mind so no rush.

ETA: I looked through it a bit more last night, many of the dogs go on to compete in both herding and agility and do well.

[RD]

That sounds all good and well, but actions speak louder than words. They don't spend half as much time on the road going to sheepdog trials as they do for agility trials. I'm not saying they don't have good dogs from good lines (they seem to) but is their priority really to produce stockdogs? I'm not saying they're a bad breeder, Maggie, I'm just trying to point out things that you may have overlooked in your merle fever :) ;)

Obedience and agility tend to clash with stockwork, and I cannot name any MACH or OTCH dogs in the US/Canada that also compete successfully in USBCHA Open. If I'm wrong and there are a lot of these dogs out there, please point them out to me.

[mrose_s]

It's okay, I do getya. I remember discussing this in the BC thread, say you go spend some time down there, and you watch their dogs work. In say 3 years when I've done more researching into herding etc or take soemone that has more of a clue about it then me. And their impressive workers, doesn't that speak for itself without herding trials?
I probably won't contact them for a few months as is but I'm gonna get together my quetions when I do. Which will now include whether or not they are breeding primarily for working or agility.

Thanks for just saying stuff straight out though, I need someone to keep me atleast partially grounded.

[bubbatd]

Is there anyway you can have someone actually check them out ??? I'm so leary about on line buying !

[RD]

Oh yes, their work will speak for itself. :) But (and no offense to you) you are not familiar with what makes a good stockdog, so how are you going to be able to determine what is a good worker? Unless you trust this breeder's opinion of what makes a good work dog, how are you going to be able to tell a good dog from one that's simply mediocre? Keep in mind that even a mediocre dog can look mighty impressive to a novice. In Arizona I worked a neat little dog that I thought was talented as all get out . . . but as I learned a little more about sheepdogs I realized that she's not as superb as I thought she was. She's still useful, but in limited situations. And I know nothing about stockwork and what makes a good dog. I don't trust myself to pick out a good work dog without the help of experienced BC people. The reason I mention trials is because they're a good outlet for a novice to get started, and if a dog can work at a certain level at trials, you know that it's probably a competent worker.

Check this out, just because I think you'd be interested, not that it's totally relevant to the discussion. This is a run from Edgeworth, a big trial here in the US. I believe this dog is 11 years old.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=QX2S43p--3Y

Despite all this talk, I think a website can only tell you so much. You should talk to this breeder, meet them, see their dogs work and get opinions of them from other BC enthusiasts in the area. If there are sheepdog trials in your area, GO! This will help you get a feel for the breed and what kind of dog you prefer.

[Lizmo]

Check this out, just because I think you'd be interested, not that it's totally relevant to the discussion. This is a run from Edgeworth, a big trial here in the US. I believe this dog is 11 years old.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=QX2S43p--3Y

Despite all this talk, I think a website can only tell you so much. You should talk to this breeder, meet them, see their dogs work and get opinions of them from other BC enthusiasts in the area. If there are sheepdog trials in your area, GO! This will help you get a feel for the breed and what kind of dog you prefer.

I defiantly agree! O/T, Pippa is one AMZING dog!

[Bluemoon]

Hi,
Below is my response to the assumptions made about my breeding practices and my dogs.

First off I have no plans of breeding in 3-4 years from now, so your public exercises of reviewing my breeding practices is for nothing.

The page you are looking at is not a contract of ownership. It is an introduction explaining that I take breeding seriously.

I do have a contract, not on my website. It is 2 pages long, and very extensive covering ownership responsibilities and breeder responsibilities, including living conditions, diseases of the breed, all health testing, risk of health conditions which are not testable, recommended nutrition, life ownership and dog returns, exercises and preventing injuries, required vet care by new owners including hip screening, yearly health survey participation, and a slew of other stuff. This is in addition to a 4 page breed information sheet and specific information about my dogs. I place my pups as carefully as I breed them. I only go into contract details after I have approved the home. I am very aware of who is getting my pup and thoroughly investigate them, most people who ask for a pup are not accepted, so I see no need to to review contracts with them when I have no intention of placing a pup with them.

It is likely best to contact the breeders you are interested in, discuss your questions and present yourself and your interests. Then if the breeder approves of you and you are interested to learn more, then check them out by contacting the owners of of dogs they have produced. You stated you know of 2 of my dogs, in OLD that would Risk and Split, and there is also Indy and Flash in OLD, a total of 4 dogs and 3 owners in your area. Critiquing a breeder on a public web site with folks that do not know the facts can lead to a lot of false assumptions, both good and bad. Not to mention the breeder themselves is not included.

Please feel free to contact me directly if you are interested in my breeding program and I will answer any questions that you have.

Lizmo, sorry you find it strange I place all my pups on spay neuter agreement. Lots of people think that, so you are not alone. I must get at least one email everyday from someone who wants a pup to breed. Some have not bothered to read the litters page, others think I am talking about spay neuter for someone else and not them. I did rescue and rehomed around 300 border collies, I have seen enough to not worry what some people might think when it comes my pups.

RD, The bulk of my web site is about the dogs I have bred and their owners, yes many of the dogs have done well in agility and I am proud of that. However only one of my own dogs (now passed on) did agility to any extent, though a few of them have a go at it for fun. All my dogs work sheep and are first and foremost my companions.

I place almost all of my pups into companion/pet agility homes, I do not place into committed trial homes or true working homes. I believe companion agility homes make great loving forever homes for my pups. Some of these owners do work their dogs on sheep but it is for pleasure. For stock managers or those who want to trial seriously and this is the sole purpose of ownership of the dog, I refer them on to other breeders that do not mind taking the risk that their pup may not work out on stock and could be sent on it's way. Again I have done far too much rescue to worry about what others may think when it comes to the type of homes I choose for my pups.

You are correct, I do not hit the trial road, nor do I hit any competition road for agility or otherwise. I used to sheepdog trial, the last dog I trialed in the USA ran in the 2001 USBCHA Nursery Championship Finals as a 2 year old. They do not give titles in ISDS or USBCHA trials. Just for the record, nursery at the nationals had a 600 yard outrun and 200 meter drive and cross drive, so the dogs are doing far more then titleling AKC herding classes. Now I only work my dogs on our property or at friends places, I am getting a older and moved to another country where they trial under a completely different style and rules. However, I still work my dogs, and it is the priority in my breeding decisions. If you want to email me about any particular dog of mine I can give you a complete description of their level of work, working style and why I have bred them to another dog when using work as the criteria for the pairing. I would suggest that if you have a questions about my kennel as to the credibility of working talent, that you contact me and ask the questions first.

Now, it was mentioned that Mrose needed to learn a bit more about trialing. Since she lives in OZ there is no point talking about ISDS style trailing as it does not exists here. There are ANKC trails, Three Sheep and Yard trails. Yard trails are for the most part a Kelpie event so I will not discuss them. ANKC is new, but for the most part any dog with some training can do well. Three sheep would require a certain type of working style and training to be successful. Outruns are very short, 100 meters or so and I have not seen a great deal of worry in breeding programs about out run. There are no blind outruns, it is in a fenced area. The rest of the course the sheep need to stay right next to the handler, so dogs that have a lot of power or want to move their stock might be a bit difficult to manage on this type of course. Casting to the head will be very important. There is no driving. I would suggest if you want a dog for three sheep that you go to a 3 sheep trailer. I have pups from my lines, one of which is the leading pointed dog or maybe border collie in the ANKC herding. I also have pups from my stud which have also done well in 3 sheep trialing. Neither venue interests me, my interests is in ISDS style work. ..and I do not place into serious sheepdog trial homes anyway, my pups are placed for companionship.

The dogs at three sheep trials are usually not purebred border collies, but rather a mix of trial dogs with some kelpie or other breeds mixed in. No 3 sheep trailers that I am aware of does any health testing, nor have any contracts or guarantees. Most have dogs only registered with the trailing association and these dogs will not be eligible to registered in AWBC the purebred BC working registry in Oz or in ANKC due to their lack of accurate pedigree or known mix breeding. Going to trials you will often find pups for sale there that should meet your need for a serious 3 sheep trail dog. Best of luck in your quest.

Deb Kelly
Blue Moon Guirmere Working Border Collies
http://web3.foxinternet.net/pep-lill/

[mrose_s]

thanks for your help RD, loading the video now.

The breeder is about a 2 day drive away from here, I will most definetley be meeting them in person before commiting to a pup. My uncle lives a couple fo hundred km's away, his dogs are kelpies and i'm going to talk to him about workers. His main worker atm is the 13 year old SMokey. I love that dog as much as I love Buster.

By the time i'm able to take on another dog I'll most likley be livign down near my uncle, so it will be closer to the breeder aswell.

plus this isn't sheep country, this is cattle country. And I havn't found on esingle herding trial around here. However down south where i want to move their everywhere lol.
I also have contact with someone that has one of his dogs, and she just sings it praises.

I need to track down some BC people aswell, as BC's and kelpies working styles differ slightly

ETA: just saw your post blue moon, thankyou. Will email you now.

[Lizmo]

If a dog works cattle, that doesn't mean it's any less of a good worker than a dog working sheep. IMO.

Bluemoon, what are you breeding for? Pet/companion homes?

[mrose_s]

yes, but if a dog works cattle its a completley different working style.

[Paige]

If a dog works cattle, that doesn't mean it's any less of a good worker than a dog working sheep. IMO.

Bluemoon, what are you breeding for? Pet/companion homes?

It doesn't sound like it. I think she just meant that placing the dogs as companions first, workers second, make the best homes because if a dog doesn't work out it will still the person's pet.

I don't get into the whole good breeder vs. bad breeder thing though. I am not knowledgeable enough yet.

[bubbatd]

Sounding better !! I agree with the last ^^^ I bred my Goldens for good family dogs and whetther they showed or hunted was second . It's all in training when the good blood lines are there .

[Bluemoon]

Lizon, ask the owners of my pups? maybe they can explain it to you.

Not to worry Paige, it is simple. A bad breeder is anyone that the current group decides to bash, as demonstraterd by not living up to their standards based on their assumptions. However be mindful of their standards, usually it is a case of a little knowledge is a dangerouse thing. Case in point is RD who states she knows nothing about working dogs but is bashing someone who has been working dogs for almost 20 years. But it is true that meeting the expectations of RD is not one of my breeding goals.

[Lizmo]

Hmm, yes, I think it is very good to make sure if they can't for some reason work, they have a good pet home. But I think they should be BREEDING first and for most for herding instinct.

Have to disagree, RD does know very much. I've learned very much from her about the breed and breeding practices.

[Paige]

I think I missed where she said she wasn't breeding for herding instinct. She said she wasn't placing in strictly working homes.

I'm so lacking education on my breed. I really should go to some more homework so I can put a proper effort into these threads.

[Bluemoon]

Lizmo,
Lets talk realty of working homes.
First is the dog on the land. Lives outside chained to a barrel, worked once a week if lucky and here is often killed by a snake. Handlers often know little about training and simp-ly dump the dog or shoot it if it does not work out. Not a life I want for one of my pups and I am not going to place one there to prove something to you, that I already know.
Trial home, I know many. Most trialers go through 4-20 dogs per year, looking for The One. Rest are sold on or disposed of. Not the sort of chance I want for my pups. Further because I place only spay neuter and all dogs must not be sold on, no trialer wants them anyway, they can't make money on them!

If you want this for your pups that is fine, but I have nothing to prove to you when it comes to what is good for my pups.

Deb Kelly

[mrose_s]

so by selling as companions first and foremost you avoid the the people that are looking at the dogs as mere possessions or tools?

I also assume the trialers you talk about might go back to the "sporter collies" in the other BC thread.

[RD]

Ah, I'm not bashing you. ;) I know nothing about trialing and working dogs in Australia, and it slipped my mind that Mrose was in Aus when I made my posts. Interesting that most of the dogs in three sheep trials are mixes. Here, most are actually purebred BCs.

I think you have a somewhat skewed perspective of those who work their dogs, but that's your choice not to sell to working homes. Personally, I don't know anyone with livestock operations who leaves their stockdogs outside or chained up. Maybe things are different in Australia.

[Bluemoon]

RD perhaps you did not see my post about trialing in the Nursery National Championships USBCHA, or perhaps you do not know that is a US organization? I lived, trialed, bred and rescued in the US for many years. I did not move to oz until I was over 50 years old. I have been around working people both on the land and at trials for 20 years, I will keep my opinion if that is OK with you. You can place your pups into working homes, that is fine with me. Gees it is hard to keep defending myself to the assumers.

Working breeders have been very amiss in Australia when it came to keeping pedigrees and registering dogs. For most of the history here, there has only beed trialing associations that kept pedigrees. Dogs registered with them can have no pedigree, be a mix or a purebred. But unless very good records were kept, none of these dogs can be registered into AWBC, which is the ABCA of OZ. Most working dogs in OZ are bred for station work and the owners don't bother with any registry.

I have several dogs in your area, sorry to say none of the owners know who you are. Do you do anything with your dogs?

[mrose_s]

bluemoon, I do have a question. You know a lot of people here in Aus. In relation to breeding working dogs, do most breeders health test their dogs? When I started looking around it seemed the general consensus is that because working dogs generally have less health problems most breeders don't healt test. I know you do but do most others? It was something I really did want to make sure happened and was actually wondering if I would have been better off importing.

I don't think people are assuming, especially not now that your here to ask directly. On the website I provided alone it did raise some questions, which I was going to ask about later but was still figuring wverything out. i havn't bought from a reputable breeder before and wanted to get everything right and ideally, make a good first impression which didn't really happen.

[Bluemoon]

As I said, as far as I know, not one working breeder does any health testing. Their dogs are just as likely to carry CEA, CL or have HD as any other group of border collies. But as the saying goes, what you do not know does not hurt you. Remeber that dogs that fail are moved on or disposed of quickly, it could be that they failed at least in part due to some disease.
KC breeders for the most part do health testing but not the more back yard breeder sort. However, they will not have been a working dog in the pedigree for 50 years. I do not count ANKC titles as proof of ability, all titled dogs seen by me I would not want if I had to really work stock with them.

[mrose_s]

Thanks, one things made me especially cautious about it is my mums dog Harry, both parents were working dogs. He's half cattle dog half border collie, both relativley healthy breeds but he has the worst case of HD our vets every seen.
I do think, particularily after what you've written here you definetley have the right idea about breeding and I'm grateful soemone does.

[Bluemoon]

HD in my opinion is the most threatening of the common disorders in border collies. Unfortunately even tested dogs still can produce affected pups. The affected rate in tested dogs under voluntary reporting is about 1-10. It is felt that this is too low and would really be about 1-7.
I am using the OFA lateral pedigree system. In this system you screen all pups bred. You then look at the genetic picture of the litter. For example you could have a 0-0 AVA hip dog who's sibling was affected, this dog would have a much greater chance of producing HD, than a dog from a litter where all the dogs were scored in the normal range and his AVA score was 4-4. The problem with this system if finding other breeders or dogs that have used this system, and right now in OZ with bc as far as I know I am the only breeder doing this.
The advice I give my owners is to behave as if their pup will get HD. Since any BC can get HD, to do everything they can in the first year to prevent increasing the severity of symptoms. This includes a diet that is not too high in calcium, keeping them lean and do not over feed. Exercises should be moderate and try to keep the feet on the ground, no sharp turning or reckless behaviors. In the event that their dog does get HD, then at least they will have done all that they could to decrease the severity.

[mrose_s]

Can a pup that would be otherwise completley heatlhy develop HD from the things listed above like overfeeding, over excercise? Or do they have to have something to do with it in their genes?

[Bluemoon]

No they would have to carry the right combination of genes to get the disease, however the severity of symptoms can be lessoned by controlled diet and exercise in the first 2 years of life.
The problem is, that we do not even know how many genes are involved. As I said dogs that are clear of the disease can produce pups with it. One PhD in genetics' I know says every pup in every litter is crap shoot, which genes will each that pup inherit? So best to think they all have a chance and do every thing you can to lesson the symptoms.

[Bluemoon]

Ok just had a phone call from a working dog home. I need your information RD and Lizmo so I can refer him to you to help him find a well bred working dog breeder.
Here is the info...
He says..I need a merle bitch pup for mustering. My mate who I muster with up in QLD has a koolie and we want to breed a litter. I state, my dogs are border collies not koolies. He states, that does not matter, we just need a merle. I ask is the koolie a merle, he says yes. I ask, do you know breeding merle to merle is likely to produce deaf and blind pups. He states no, but we will cull any like that. I state my litters are all sold. He says, well do you have an older bitch merle you are done with I can have, I'll pay a small price for it. I say no, but I know some folks who really believe it is proof of quality in a working dog breeders to place into working homes and will have them get back to him. I got his number if you want to help him find a pup. LOL I kid you not.

[mrose_s]

Did that really just happen? Or was it an example.
If so.. thats bloody awful. I see your point

[Bluemoon]

It really happened, just how I said. Enough to make your hair curl.
Had 2 calls today, the other from central NSW. They seemed nicer. They are looking for some outside bloodlines for breeding and a trailer in WA had told them about 2 of my pups they had seen work at a clinic. I gave them a referral to a friend of mine with working lines for cattle. Not that I would be breeding good working dogs...with all the agility dogs on my web site.

Anyway, best of luck in your pup buying adventure. I am sure you will find just the right pup and I wish you both all the best.
Deb

[doberkim]

Bluemoon - thanks for posting, it is an interesting perspective. I know nothing about herding (as mine isn't a herding breed), but looking at bite sport people, I do know dogs are often passed around a lot. I know a few people that have gone through dogs because they weren't going to be podium dogs with high scores competing at international levels. Many of the people with multiple dogs training in bite sport do end up kenneling their dogs unless they are being worked, or rotated through the house potentially. DOgs rehomed at 2-3 years old because they don't have what it takes.

It's sometimes a very different lifestyle. I don't think everyone is like that, and certainly there are people doing bite sport, for instance, that still first and foremost want a companion. But it is a risk you run, it's interesting to see it in a variety of venues.

[mrose_s]

Well when you look at horses aswell, they often get sold to a few different homes throughout their life. Like when their rider is going up a level and looking for another horse. Just to add, I also know very little about riding, I just read a lot of horse for sale adds. Horse mad all my life and riding for 6 months, still know very little and yet to own my own.

[Paige]

Well when you look at horses aswell, they often get sold to a few different homes throughout their life. Like when their rider is going up a level and looking for another horse. Just to add, I also know very little about riding, I just read a lot of horse for sale adds. Horse mad all my life and riding for 6 months, still know very little and yet to own my own.

I've had horses for a long time. I can tell yo my pony has gone through a million and one homes before she finally had a home at my mom's to call her own. All of the horses that are currently at my mom's, excluding Baby D seeing as we've had her from birth, have been to at the very least 6 homes in their lives. The pony was 17 when I was given her and no one had kept her over a year in all her life. She was a crazy old bat when I got her but now she's just sweet ol' Gramma, aloud to be the cranky pants she is. We love her for who she is but not all old ponies are so lucky, sadly.

Look at our other old mare Spirit. She's only 18, blind, and over in the knee. My mom gave her to her horsey friend before she went blind so her friend's daughter could have a very light riding horse. Plonk around the ring a couple times bareback sort of thing, maybe a stroll out in the hay field. Six months later she landed up back at my mom's house. Even though we had it in writing that if they were to sell Spirit we would be informed and would take her back or we would find her a suitable home. My mom's friend didn't even tell us that she was selling Spirit! Another horsey friend told us and of course my mom rushed over with her trailer to go pick up. She was not the same good old girl we gave to them. She had always been a bold, reliable mare for the entire seven years we had had her. Now she was a quivering nervous wreck.

Spirit has been home close to seven months now and she was a nervous wreck for four of those months. Spirit wasn't even a clingy horse. Never was a loving horse. Kind to her rider but overall just very detatched. She never showed any sign of enjoying your company (not that she ever showed any sign of not enjoying your company either). I went out to say hi to my old pony who my mom also still has and guess who came over to say hi? Old blind Spirit who has never walked up to anyone to be pet in her life. She came and rested her head on my shoulder and sighed. You could just see how thankful she was to finally be back home. As if she was saying thank-you.

Apply that to a dog. An animal who thrives on their human companionship. If rehoming our little Red Head Spirit did so much damaged to her and she never really was bonded to any of my family, think about what that would do to a dog. I often say about my riding horse Cougar if he became lame for whatever reason I'd keep him just for his company. Because that is what he is to me. A companion first, a riding horse second. If everyone here knew him they'd understand. He makes me laugh. I understand not everyone is like that with their animals but I personally think they should be. Or if you are going to get one for a worker it should be equally as important that they are your companion too.

So I guess I do understand what Bluemoon is talking about. I have never bred an animal in my life but my mother has taken in a lot of horses that no one else wanted over the years. Seeing as she is not the greatest horsemen when it comes to installing ground manners I have had the joy of doing that since I was wee. She currently has six that are lifers. With her to their last breathes. I personally think that's the way it should be, regardless of the animal.

Whoa. That was rather long.:p

[RD]

Bluemoon, yikes. If this is the only experience you've had with working homes, then I'm afraid you've had quite a poor sampling. =/ Or perhaps our definition of working homes differ. I think of a working home as anyone with livestock who will give the dog a job to do. I'm not a true working home.

As for not placing your dogs with anyone who will seriously work them - then WHY do you say you are breeding 'working' dogs? I fail to understand the logic behind breeding supposedly superb working stockdogs, then placing them all into pet homes. How do you even know the puppies you have produced have talent as stockdogs if they never see a sheep? This is what I meant when I was looking at your website. You say stockwork is your priority, but how do you expect a stranger to know that by seeing the kind of homes you place your pups into? I thought your main goal was producing agility dogs by looking at your site.

I was raised on a ranch and I know a lot of ranchers - I don't know one that takes a good stockdog for granted. Are their dogs pampered, taken to obedience classes, groomed daily or given designer collars? Nope. But they live with their person, are given good care, and they're doing the job they were bred for. Those dogs seem happy to me, and yes if I breed someday I would have no qualms about placing one of my puppies in a home like that. Different strokes, I suppose!

Oh, and since you know nothing about me, I don't know how any of your puppy buyers could possibly identify me. ;) For the record, I don't trial my dogs yet. I only have one potential trial dog, and she's 11 months old - and has a lot on her plate, as she's also training as my service dog. The other three don't have much working potential, and two are babies to boot. So nope, I guess I don't do a whole lot with my puppies. :)

[Lizmo]

As for not placing your dogs with anyone who will seriously work them - then WHY do you say you are breeding 'working' dogs? I fail to understand the logic behind breeding supposedly superb working stockdogs, then placing them all into pet homes. How do you even know the puppies you have produced have talent as stockdogs if they never see a sheep? This is what I meant when I was looking at your website. You say stockwork is your priority, but how do you expect a stranger to know that by seeing the kind of homes you place your pups into? I thought your main goal was producing agility dogs by looking at your site.

Are their dogs pampered, taken to obedience classes, groomed daily or given designer collars? Nope. But they live with their person, are given good care, and they're doing the job they were bred for. Those dogs seem happy to me, and yes if I breed someday I would have no qualms about placing one of my puppies in a home like that. Different strokes, I suppose!




Your first paragragh said what I was trying to say earlier a LOT better. I completely agree with the second paragragh too.

Like Grace, no one would know me. I will not have my Border Collie puppy for another 6-8 months.