breeding my bull terrier

[lowpuppy69]

This was my first time breeding my bull terrier.Actually any dog period, i wanted to do it one time before i get her spayed. She's 17 months on her 2nd heat cycle and after talking with the vet she said it would be a good time to do it, thats shes both phisically and mentally mature. i had my bitch health checkd and also the stud checked. Both dogs are AKC registerd with champion blood lines and both have real good personalities. i been doing alot of research for the past few months so figured i would give it a shot. i still got alot to learn and plan on purchasing a few books to read up on. she was bred twice, once friday and today so hopfully i'll find something out here in a week or so...figured i would share cause i'm really exicted and heres a few pics of my bitch and the stud
my female
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a232/lowpuppy69/Acro/AAAA0051.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a232/lowpuppy69/Acro/7.jpg
the stud
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a232/lowpuppy69/IMGP0460.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a232/lowpuppy69/2-3.jpg

[Buddy'sParents]

Oh boy.

Is your bitch a champion? What about the stud?

What does "health checked" mean?

See this site: http://www.dogstuff.info/to_breed_or_not.html

[adojrts]

Ditto



Oh boy.

Is your bitch a champion? What about the stud?

What does "health checked" mean?

See this site: http://www.dogstuff.info/to_breed_or_not.html

[Boemy]

Well, I'm guessing your dog doesn't have her hips checked since the minimum age for that is two years . . .

Breeding your dog "just because" without genetic health testing is a bad idea. By "genetic health testing" I mean tests that will look for potential genetic problems in the puppies even if the parents appear sound . . . different from just taking them to the vet. Like the OFA (hip test) and the CERF (eye test.)

How much money do you have saved up for this pregnancy? Will you be taking your dog in for ultrasounds and constant vet checks to ensure that she stays safe throughout her pregnancy? Bitches can die from complications. If she does, are you prepared to bottle feed the puppies day and night until they're able to eat solid foods. Or, likewise, if the bitch rejects them and refuses to feed them? These things happen.

[lowpuppy69]

both dogs have champion bloodlines but are not champion theirselves. as for the health check i had the kidneys checked,the patella test,had their hearts checked for murmers, and the BAER test...those where all the ones the vet offerd..as for the link to the " to breed or not to breed" i've read it a few times. i've been doing as much research as i can, but as i said this is my first time doing this so i know i'm in for a treat..

[Maxy24]

What health screenings were done to Male and Female? Why do yo feel the need to breed your dog? Do you think you are helping the Bull Terrier breed by breeding your dog or are you causing problems for them health, temperament, and conformation or the breed? Do you have homes for all the puppies? If you can't find them homes are you willing to keep them? If in 9 years one of your puppies owners does not want the dog are you willing to take him back or will you let him add to the over population in shelters?

Keep in mind I am not trying to attack you, these are the standard questions we ask breeders new to the forum to see if we agree with their reasons for breeding. Anyway, I would definitely get cracking on learning, try to find a mentor involved in your breed (your dog's breeder is a good person to do this). Keep in mind just because your dog has champion blood lines does not mean the dog could be a champion herself, It would have been better to get her her Champion and some sort of temperament test (CGC, therapy pet etc) prior to breeding so there was real proof she was worthy.


Good Luck, I hope your bitch carries and delivers the litter with no complications. Start saving up money in case of a C-Section or illness, and begin learning everything you can now.

[showpug]

Ugh!

I am so TIRED of regular vets telling people it is safe and ok to breed a bitch under 2 years! Go to an actual reproductive vet and they will tell you a TOTALLY different story. NO bitch is physically mature enough to be bred before two years. There are still changes that take place in the pelvis as it is one of the last things to stop growing. The pelvis is important as it passes the puppies!

Second, I don't mean this to sound harsh, but champion bloodlines mean NOTHING. What have the two dog being bred done to prove they are worthy of being bred? What are their OFA ratings? How about CERF? What titles have they EARNED?

Third, I hope you have a very flexible work schedule. You will need to take at least two weeks off when they are born. Some bitches take total care of their puppies, others do nothing and even reject their pups. I just spent a lot of time in the last two weeks putting pups on my bitch to nurse every two hours. This was through the night too. You have to be there to monitor your bitch and the pups. It is vitally important to their survival.

Put some money aside for a c-section and emergencies. I would recommend about $1500, especially since your bitch was bred before turning two.

[lowpuppy69]

What health screenings were done to Male and Female? Why do yo feel the need to breed your dog? Do you think you are helping the Bull Terrier breed by breeding your dog or are you causing problems for them health, temperament, and conformation or the breed? Do you have homes for all the puppies? If you can't find them homes are you willing to keep them? If in 9 years one of your puppies owners does not want the dog are you willing to take him back or will you let him add to the over population in shelters?

Keep in mind I am not trying to attack you, these are the standard questions we ask breeders new to the forum to see if we agree with their reasons for breeding. Anyway, I would definitely get cracking on learning, try to find a mentor involved in your breed (your dog's breeder is a good person to do this). Keep in mind just because your dog has champion blood lines does not mean the dog could be a champion herself, It would have been better to get her her Champion and some sort of temperament test (CGC, therapy pet etc) prior to breeding so there was real proof she was worthy.


Good Luck, I hope your bitch carries and delivers the litter with no complications. Start saving up money in case of a C-Section or illness, and begin learning everything you can now.

the male had the kidneys,heart and deffness checkd. i know i still have alot to learn and thats why i posted up on this forum. there is alot of good information and alot to learn here. i know there is alot of risk in this and if i didnt feel confident i wouldnt have tried it..it took me a while to find a stud that i thought was worthy to breed my bitch, that had to character,temperment and was healthy. this was his first time breeding also and he is almost 2 1/2 years old. i plan on taking responsibility for every puppy in good health and bad. making sure they are in a good home is a must and a contract will be made up that i can take the pup back if it isnt taken care of. i've put away little over 1000 dollars right now for this and keep putting a little in every week. but i hope everything goes great

[Buddy'sParents]

both dogs have champion bloodlines but are not champion theirselves. as for the health check i had the kidneys checked,the patella test,had their hearts checked for murmers, and the BAER test...those where all the ones the vet offerd..as for the link to the " to breed or not to breed" i've read it a few times. i've been doing as much research as i can, but as i said this is my first time doing this so i know i'm in for a treat..

In for a treat? These are lives that you are speaking about here. Lives that depend on YOU.

What research have you done that says its okay to breed your dog because it's pretty and comes from champion lines? What research have you done that says its okay to breed a bitch before 2 years of age? What stud owner would breed their dog to a bitch without adequate testing and that is a true testament of the breed?

I would spay your bitch and do some more research on the ethics regarding breeding. Then, after you're educated, get another bitch or dog and start all over. The right way.

[lowpuppy69]

i do have a flexible work schedule, i own my own business so i dont think that will be a problem. With the OFA it said that her hips had no signs of dysplasia*(spelling) i tried to make sure i had everything checkd out before it actually happend. hopefully there wont be any complication but alway expect the unexpected

[showpug]

i do have a flexible work schedule, i own my own business so i dont think that will be a problem. With the OFA it said that her hips had no signs of dysplasia*(spelling) i tried to make sure i had everything checkd out before it actually happend. hopefully there wont be any complication but alway expect the unexpected

Excellent, good, fair and poor are OFA ratings.

[Cheetah]

You can't truely have an accurate OFA test done until your bitch is 24 months. Your bitch is only 17 months... >o.o<

[adojrts]

Aren't Bull Terriers on of the breeds prone to C's, because of the large skull size?
Consider this, Do you have a boss (assuming you have a job that requires you to leave each day), that is fully understanding for extra time off in case ( additional to you taking the 2 wks off) your bitch has to have a C, and what if she rejects the pups? Oh hand raising a litter of puppies is NOT fun. It's stressful, expensive and forget about sleep, by the time you hand feed them, clean them and make sure they 'go', weigh them and record ALL that info, you get to lay down for a couple of hours.......then it starts AGAIN. And if your girl has had trouble, you also have to find the time to care for her too. A litter like that can cost THOUSANDS ($4-5+ ) to raise, when you consider vet bills, stud fee's and time lost at work (or a lost job).

[lowpuppy69]

well the way everyone sounds on here i guess i have made a mistake. i thought i was being responsible by not just doing it. i researched it and found out what test i had to have performed on both dogs to be sure they were suitable for breeding and not just breeding them on the way they look. i was posting on here for some incouragment but i guess thats hard to get here from someone thats kinda new on the forum. i can always wait and find out if she is preg then have them aborted.

[adojrts]

Look, you at least have shown responsiblity by researching the genetic issues of your breed and having the tests done. That is alot more than what many people do. But there are other things to consider as well. Most of them have been pointed out. Here are a couple more.......have you researched the pedigree's for BT Rage, Trancing and Spinning etc? I am very aware of those problems in BT's, which appears to be a growing concern for BT breeders. I have an interest in it because there is some BT blood in JRT's from a 100 years ago, therefore it could start coming up in JRT's more regularly if we as JRT/PRT breeders are not careful and cull those dogs now.

Lynn

[Buddy'sParents]

Or just have her spayed right away.

[lowpuppy69]

Look, you at least have shown responsiblity by researching the genetic issues of your breed and having the tests done. That is alot more than what many people do. But there are other things to consider as well. Most of them have been pointed out. Here are a couple more.......have you researched the pedigree's for BT Rage, Trancing and Spinning etc? I am very aware of those problems in BT's, which appears to be a growing concern for BT breeders. I have an interest in it because there is some BT blood in JRT's from a 100 years ago, therefore it could start coming up in JRT's more regularly if we as JRT/PRT breeders are not careful and cull those dogs now.

Lynn

i know about the rage a bull terriers can have and mine seems fine, no spinning or trancing. i've never seen her get aggresive towards anything...deffently a very good dog and this will be the only breed i will own because it is like having a 3 year old kid at all time...always wide open.it takes alot of responsibitly to own one of these dogs and beable to care for it as need be...it deffently not your average dog by no means...i looked into the breed for about 6 months before i actually took the leap and bought one..and it was everything that i expected..she thinks she runs the house, can be hardheaded at times,etc..i'm 23 got my own place 4 acres of land 2 cats and one horse. i enjoy animals and this is not to make money but maybe i did rush into this a little bit

[Maxy24]

Please stick around here, and I would get here spayed now, It may be too late to get her started with showing and/or working so by the time she completes a Championship, has all testing (health and temperament) she may be a bit too old for breeding. If you would really like to breed, then keep your current female as a pet and start looking into show breeders who you could get a prospect from, a puppy you will start with showing right away.

Now I like you, you at least tried to do things right and have not yet yelled at us, you are a strong person for that :D unfortunately you still did not do everything you needed to before breeding. you did try to do things right, I commend you for that but it still does not change the fact that she should not be bred. If you do decide to look into a show prospect puppy and breeding we would love for you to stay (either way we would love for you to stay) and keep us updated on that, I'm sure some of the forum's breeders can help you along the way.

Your dog is a beautiful girl by the way, she looks like a great pet!

[HoundedByHounds]

i know about the rage a bull terriers can have and mine seems fine, no spinning or trancing.

You know, sometimes things show up later in life right? She is not even 2! The other reason people wait to breed is because somethings show up later on...and what about behind her for 3-4 gens back? any of these issues? The stud? All things you should know definitively before any breeding is ever done.

Where is your bitches breeder in all of this? Did she come from a reputable breeder and was she sold to you as a show/breeding bitch?

[yoko]

i'm going to say good job to you :)

1. you researched
2. you did some health testing
3. you're asking questions

i do agree with the others. maybe spay her keep as a pet get a show prospect dog and show a bit. and then breed with help of a mentor. :) you are already doing way better than some of the posters i have read

[Boemy]

Please do stick around. We aren't trying to attack you, just make you aware of issues you may not have thought about.

[~Tucker&Me~]

I agree with everyone.

IMO, she seems like a wonderful pet. I would spay her, enjoy her only as a companion, then look into getting a show prospect.

Kudos for asking questions!

~Tucker

[Fran27]

I'm glad you recognize your mistake.

The problem is that there is so much to research in a breed, so many health problems that can show up for every breed, it takes years of research to breed responsibly. Vets don't know much and the ones encouraging people to breed should be ashamed of themselves.

You want to see a specialized vet and talk to known breeders at shows and read a lot on the breed before you breed. It's good that you've done some testings but unfortunately it doesn't cover all the problems that can arise. And the problem with not doing all those tests is that the puppies may have major issues growing up... issues that whatever people say the breeder is morally responsible for.

Add to that showing your dog to prove that he is a good specimen of the breed and worth breeding, and do temperaments tests to show that he has the right temper for the breed... it takes a long time and it's expensive.

[IliamnasQuest]

lowpuppy -

I know you're not getting the responses you wanted - I'm sure you probably wanted some people to celebrate with you because I'm sure you're excited about the thought of having puppies around. But unfortunately you bred your bitch first and then came here to ask questions. This is a forum that takes a very stern and conscientious look at breeding. There are so many dogs out there being euthanized daily because of a lack of homes, and so many health problems being bred into purebred dogs, that most of us feel only the best in the breed should be used for breeding purposes. We're not "anti-breeding", just "anti-bad-breeding". And breeding a young bitch, one that hasn't had all her health certifications, one that hasn't been proven as to conformation or working ability, one that has an unknown background as far as health certifications go, is just not something that most people who believe in doing what's best for the dogs are going to agree with.

According to the OFA statistics, 33% of bull terriers x-rayed have elbow dysplasia. That's one in every three. They also show some hip dysplasia. These are tests that can only officially be done after the dogs are two years old - to allow for full growth. The dogs must be x-rayed and the x-rays sent off to be examined by specialists (what your regular vet says is not the real answer). And also on the OFA page, the thyroid shows only 71% of bull terriers are normal. A true thyroid panel for OFA testing is more elaborate than the simple thyroid testing most vets do. Going to a regular vet and having him do some basic tests and then tell you your dog is healthy for breeding is just not valid.

And even if your dog passed every possible test for genetic health problems, it's still very important to look at the background for at least 2-3 generations. What kind of health clearances did the parents, grandparents and great-grandparents have? Some genetic problems can skip a generation and crop up later. You really need to know what's been done previously. If there are OFA numbers listed, look them up on the OFA site to make sure they're accurate. Health is so important and I'm sure the last thing you want to do is to end up with a litter of puppies who all have elbow dysplasia by the time they're 2-3 years old.

As far as the championship lines goes .. how many champions are in the first couple of generations? To truly claim "champion" lines, nearly all the dogs for three generations back (at least) should be champions. Are there working titles (more important to me than conformation titles)? How many working titles? Has your dog been shown in conformation or been assessed by various experts in the breed as to her particular conformation? Has she proven herself in working ability in some way (even if it's just obedience trials, agility trials, tracking trials, hunting, herding, police dog work, schutzhund, etc.)? While you may have a wonderful pet dog, there are thousands of wonderful pet dogs being destroyed every day. You should have a higher goal if you want to breed.

And then all these questions about your bitch should also apply to the male you've chosen. How does his pedigree complement your bitch's pedigree? What kind of health certification (not just testing - actual certification) does he and his parents, grand-parents, great-grandparents have? Conformation titles? Working titles?

See, the thing is .. anyone can stick a female and a male together, have sperm hit eggs and produce puppies. But it takes someone with ethics, knowledge, and a true love of dogs to do it right. You've done some research but you're a long ways from having done enough to be a "good breeder". What you've done right now is just a backyard breeding of a couple of dogs that happen to be the same breed.

I posted last week or so about my bitch and whether or not to breed her. I've been in dogs for nearly 20 years, have over 30 performance titles on my dogs, have shown in conformation in both the U.S. and Canada. My bitch is nearly three years old, has OFA certifications on hips, elbows, thyroid, patellas, cardiac and eyes, has four titles (all performance), and is pointed in both AKC and CKC conformation. She's also certified as a therapy dog. She has an incredible pedigree with lots of health certifications (in fact her father is the first chow to ever pass all six certifications), and tons of championships plus a few working titles. Yet I'm still questioning as to whether or not she's breeding material. She has a few slight conformational flaws - according to breed standard - and I recognize those and how I would need to keep those in mind when choosing a male. She's one of only six chows ever to pass ALL the health certifications and I'm sure she has something to offer the breed, but it's important to take this seriously and that's what I'm doing.

I'm sorry if you feel a bit slighted by the responses to your breeding of your dog, but I hope that my explanation here has clarified a bit more WHY you're not getting more positive responses. Genetic health, conformation and working ability are vital parts of any breed and it's difficult to agree with someone who is breeding without really understanding how important these are. Your choice now is to see about aborting the pups (and since you've just bred her, you might contact a vet about a mismate shot .. you may be beyond the point of no-return on that, though, and aborting the pups would have to be done much like a c-section); have her spayed and then take the time to learn more about the breed - do some working events with her, contact your breed club and get more info, etc.; or produce these pups and place them in loving homes and then hope that nothing goes wrong with them. Maybe you'll luck out and she won't have taken, but that's probably unlikely.

And please understand that the people here are responding to you purely out of a love for dogs, and not because they dislike you for any reason.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska

[Sapphire-Light]

You can also let the puppies born and make spay contracts with them and then spay your dog.


Is a good thing you are willing to learn and did health test.

I love bull terries a lot, and I always whanted one since I was very little, unfurtully the breed is banned in my city :(

[lowpuppy69]

i'll go ahead and find out about the mismate shot, but i'm not wanting to spay her just yet..i know i still have alot to learn and i've found out alot of actions i need to take before even thinking of breeding her again. i bought her from a pretty reputable bull terrier breeder in NC. so i'm gonna try and give her a call and do some follow up on the history of the dogs she breeds