See this shih tzu breeder

[Sapphire-Light]

See this shih tzu breeder.

They lived in mexico and they moved to arizona.

I was talking to them, and they say me they have a waiting list.

This is the site

http://www.perrosdemexico.com.mx/darleen/

http://www.dogsconnection.net/

[HarleyD]

I didn't really understand much cause some of the important stuff was in Spanish. I didn't see anything (or wasn't looking?) about puppies, waiting lists, health certs, guarantee, prices...none of it. I know they show alot of dogs, but which ones are theirs that they actually breed with?

[Sapphire-Light]

I didn't really understand much cause some of the important stuff was in Spanish. I didn't see anything (or wasn't looking?) about puppies, waiting lists, health certs, guarantee, prices...none of it. I know they show alot of dogs, but which ones are theirs that they actually breed with?

The only ones that they breed are the shih tzus and beagles.

They are handlers too, so the other pics of dogs of different breed are not their own.

here what they saw about the puppies.

The price for a show shih tzu is $1500, that's why they say to me in the e-mail,
They also say they have a long waiting list, that MAYBE next year they will have avalible puppies.



But in the site they didn't splain what the guarantee coverts, I have to ask.

We offer you:
Few litters a year to mantain our puppies quality and health
Complete register
Warranty contract (purity, health)
All vaccines and dewormings
Available after 3 month old
Spayed/Neutered contract on pet quality puppies.
Puppies color in gold/white, orange/white and red/white

[HarleyD]

It still doesn't answer what kind of health certs they do (if any) or offer any proof that they actually show their dogs and that they are CH. If I were going to buy from them (which I wouldn't, to many pups) I'd want health certs done, proof of the pedigree of sires/dams, better guarantee *how can they say what's pet quality and what's not...why not spay/neuter all pups*, see the parents, see where they are kept, etc.

[sheepjoke]

I think at this time they look legit. I dont see where they are cranking out puppies. There is no sin in saying pet quality puppies are on s/n contracts...why should they s/n all of them if they are show breeders breeding for show prospects? how do they know they are pet/show quality...experience, mentors, other opinions. my puppies are pets or show dogs, most are altered anyway, SQ or not, but i should not be condemned just cause i dont make all my puppies be altered, if i did that, i wouldnt have lines, i wouldnt contribute to my breed, and if something happened, i would lose the years i have put into my lines! food for thought.



sheepjoke

[HarleyD]

HOw do you know they are show quality? They do not show the sire/dam pedigree and don't say what kind of supposed CH they have.

Are your dogs CH or have some other sort of titles? What kind do YOU have and what are their health certs?

If you s/n the pet quality pups you know you are only carrying on the best possible genes and health.

[sheepjoke]

They are nice quality dogs. They are obviously showing them. i didnt say the parents were Ch's or what org they were ch's under.

i knowo they are quality dogs...how do YOU know they are NOT?


and pet quality should be s/n, no doubt, but you are no more qualified to say all their puppies are pets than I am...actually probably much less qualified.


more questions need to be asked. what are the health testings done in tzus. toy breeders unfortunately dont do a lot of health testing not sure why.


you cant condemn this person just because you say so. there is a possibility they are legit, certainly more legit than most of the websites selling tzues i have seen


buyers must do their homework. i did not see them even selling puppies on the site, but maybe i missed it. i will go look again and try to figure out exactly why you think they should be deemed unsuitable to buy from.




sheepjoke

[sheepjoke]

they have dogs showing in akc. pointed. i guess i could go to infordog and look up how many points they have, or even akc, but i dont really care. they dont have any puppies available and obviously english is their second language so if you do not like the tone of their website that may be why they have nice quality dogs who have good pedigrees and are being shown they put pets on s/n agreements am i missing something other than you feel they are not qualified to call their dogs show quality? if you go to infodog you can look up the shows on the photos and see what competition they have won over and how many points, surely you are not saying the dogs in the photos are not theirs are you? im sure that happens but comon. these people are not pimping their puppies, not cranking them out as far as i can tell from the website and are showing tehir quality dogs and selling responsibly, as far as the WEBSITE is concerned.




sheepjoke

[HoundedByHounds]

See this shih tzu breeder.

They lived in mexico and they moved to arizona.

I was talking to them, and they say me they have a waiting list.

This is the site

http://www.perrosdemexico.com.mx/darleen/

http://www.dogsconnection.net/

They have hounds from someone I know personally to be reputable and that person, sells to other reputable breeders. That much I can tell you...

eta: not everyone puts every detail on their site...if you have questions email them...it certainly doesn't automatically mean they do nothing right because it's not on their site.

[MelissaCato]

They are nice quality dogs. They are obviously showing them. i didnt say the parents were Ch's or what org they were ch's under.

i knowo they are quality dogs...how do YOU know they are NOT?


and pet quality should be s/n, no doubt, but you are no more qualified to say all their puppies are pets than I am...actually probably much less qualified.


more questions need to be asked. what are the health testings done in tzus. toy breeders unfortunately dont do a lot of health testing not sure why.


you cant condemn this person just because you say so. there is a possibility they are legit, certainly more legit than most of the websites selling tzues i have seen


buyers must do their homework. i did not see them even selling puppies on the site, but maybe i missed it. i will go look again and try to figure out exactly why you think they should be deemed unsuitable to buy from.

sheepjoke

Ditto to this.

Also, they state they don't even sell puppies till 3 months old.

It's just another ligit person to target. :rolleyes:

[Sapphire-Light]

HOw do you know they are show quality? They do not show the sire/dam pedigree and don't say what kind of supposed CH they have.
.

Actully you can see the pedigres of each dogs they have, is not a scan they just wrote the info under each dog photo.

Maybe they can give a scan if is asked in a e-mail and even the # of the microchip and tatto.






They have hounds from someone I know personally to be reputable and that person, sells to other reputable breeders. That much I can tell you...

eta: not everyone puts every detail on their site...if you have questions email them...it certainly doesn't automatically mean they do nothing right because it's not on their site.

Really? what dogs are from the breeder you are sayin? do they have a web site?

[HarleyD]

Just because they type in that they have CH. doesn't mean they do. If you wanted to take the time you could look each dog up by name and see if they are what these people are claiming they are. Until I see an actual photocopy or scanned copy of the official pedigree I won't believe it. I've seen to many people say "oh my dogs are from Ch lines." Then they show you written stuff and when you check up on it they were all lies. It's not hard to SAY you have Ch. People also claim they are from "special" or "recognized" lines to get your attention and charge more for the pups.

Sorry I'm so skeptical. People lie sometimes and I just wouldn't want to fall into that trap.

Get me a copy of an official pedigree and I'll believe.

[sheepjoke]

If you arent buying a dog from them,its not your business, and not your job to investigate them. It is also not nice to assume everyone is a bad breeder. Everything you questioned was answered, so now you say they are lying about their show wins, pics of dogs, and pedigrees! Lighten up! Its good to be skeptical when warranted, but in this case, at this point, whether you like it or not these people look to be legit show breeders and if you choose to insinuate they are liars, then you better be able to back that up becasue i am sure they can back up that those pics are their dogs, and again, how do you know what a quality tzu looks like? i do. matter of fact my best friends mom used to show them. those are quality dogs. shame on you for insinuating these people with nice dogs are lying about their dogs and shows and pedigrees. shame on you. until there are red flags these people deserve the benefit of the doubt. not all breeders are bad breeders and you would not have your rottweiler if it werent for breeders. i find it highly offensive that you take such a liar liar pants on fire approach to breeders who appear legit, even questioning whether they can distinguish pet from show quality and thinking all their puppies should be altered. how long have you show and reputably bred dogs, and how many ch's have you produced, what health testing is done and how many litters? you appear to have all this experience, please fill us in on why those dogs are not show quality, why you think they are pimping puppies when they dont even have a litter, why you think they have stolen or lied about pictures and pedigeres. this is not some shady sight where it is obvious someone is trying to imitate a show breeder or is a show mill or an irresponsible show breeder. reputable breeders can see that a mile away and we also can spot someone who by all outward appearances appears legit and warrants further investigation AND the benefit of the doubt. i hope you will consider these things before telling ME that i dont know what show quality is, and insinuating these people are lying. bad really bad.


this is how all breeders get lumped into one category and how we will lose the right to own and breed dogs and how breeds will become extinct the peta believe that there are 'no responsible breeders'. i beg to differ.




sheepjoke, irritated

[sheepjoke]

by the way i am living with and have lived with several champion dogs who are health tested and whose pedigrees are filled with chammpions, but i have no desire to prove that to you. does that make me a liar? certainly not. i also have puppies here and available....horrors! does that make me a bad breeder, that i produce a litter a year, most of which go as altered pets?



sheepjoke

[HoundedByHounds]

Sapph....I referred to knowing the breeder of the HOUNDS they have...meaning the Beagles. I took your interest to be in the Shih's? I do not have contact with any people in Shih's....

The hounds pictured are from Kowtown Beagles, Copper Rose Beagles, And the others look like their own breeding down thru Lanbur Beagles and maybe Albedo as well, and yes they do have websites and yes the dogs pictured are finished stateside where Ch is mentioned. Some are not...but they are not referred to as Ch on the page.

The Beagle side of things is all I can speak to...and they have some nice Beagles from nice people.

[sheepjoke]

Sapph....I referred to knowing the breeder of the HOUNDS they have...meaning the Beagles. I took your interest to be in the Shih's? I do not have contact with any people in Shih's....

The hounds pictured are from Kowtown Beagles, Copper Rose Beagles, And the others look like their own breeding down thru Lanbur Beagles and maybe Albedo as well, and yes they do have websites and yes the dogs pictured are finished stateside where Ch is mentioned. Some are not...but they are not referred to as Ch on the page.

The Beagle side of things is all I can speak to...and they have some nice Beagles from nice people.


Just another reason to assume they are legit until proven otherwise...quality dogs from quality breeders. thank you for that information, hounds.




sheepjoke

[Sapphire-Light]

Harley.
I know this breeders can see the difference in a pet or a show puppy because this breeder was the handler of a dog of the year in mexico, it was an english mastiff the top dog in '97 you can see it here http://www.fcmac.org.mx/cgi-bin/systemium/tourist.pl?action=file_show&categoria=/PERRODELAO&elemento=perro.xml

One of the shih tzu they have appears here http://www.onofrio.com/execpgm/wbsrbred?wtsrk1=AUST1034395SHI

http://www.onofrio.com/execpgm/wbsrbred?wtsrk1=VALE1611235SHI


And thanks HoundedByHounds, yes they are the shih tzus I'm interested, but that info on beagle is usefull, that means they have good dogs.

[sheepjoke]

Harley.
I know this breeders can see the difference in a pet or a show puppy because this breeder was the handler of a dog of the year in mexico, it was an english mastiff the top dog in '97 you can see it here http://www.fcmac.org.mx/cgi-bin/systemium/tourist.pl?action=file_show&categoria=/PERRODELAO&elemento=perro.xml

One of the shih tzu they have appears here http://www.onofrio.com/execpgm/wbsrbred?wtsrk1=AUST1034395SHI

http://www.onofrio.com/execpgm/wbsrbred?wtsrk1=VALE1611235SHI


And thanks HoundedByHounds, yes they are the shih tzus I'm interested, but that info on beagle is usefull, that means they have good dogs.


Saph, ithink you have a good start w/ these people. i am appalled it is insinuated they are showing photos of dogs they dont own, lying about titles and pedigrees. there is no reason for them to do that, they have nice dogs that they are obviously showing and obviously they are known handlers as well. there is probably more screening to do, and hopefully they will screen you just as carefully, but a great place to start for sure. best of luck to you




sheepjoke

[HarleyD]

No reason for you to get so mean and nasty sheepjoke. I'm simply saying that not everyone is honest. There are plenty of people that say their dogs are one thing and they aren't. All I'm saying is that if you want to go by a typed up version of a pedigree then by all means go ahead. I simply like to see everything before making a decision. Granted, they look like they know what they are doing and have plenty of pictures of them in the show ring. I never said I knew anything about shih tzu's but they do look nice.

If you want to believe everybody then go ahead. I simply choose to err on the side of caution when dealing with breeders I don't know.

BTW, I can ask questions any time I want and believe what I like regardless of your opinions. You don't have to be buying from someone to be interested in the welfare of others...or are you that selfish?

[sheepjoke]

not being nasty, being factual


of course you can ask questions but that does not mean you deserve an answer



your insinuations towards these people you do not know and your assumptions are insulting to me and other reputable breeders



you telling me i dont now a show dog when i see it is insulting



i think its obvious who is nasty and its not me, offended, yes, i am offended. until you have ten mentors in ten different breeds for 30 years have produced champions and have shown and finished dogs you should not put such harsh judgements on people or assume they know less than you.



i believe everybody? what makes you ASSUME that, really? because I know these people have a factual website and show dogs...by the way i never said they were reputable, did i? i said they warrent further investigation as they look good on the website. as far as believeing everybody that is goofy adn a horrible untrue statement. i am very critical of breeders and it is easy for me to weed out the liars and cheats. obviously i must assume from this thread that you uprefer to call everyone liars and cheats unless they prove to you otherwise though you have, from what i gather, done nothing in dogs as far as reputable breeding, showing, or health testing.


edit: btw, what breeders do you know, exactly? how many? and those are the only people you choose to believe are reputable? comon. but me who has been to shows for upteen years and knows hundreds in the dog world, i am not capable in your eyes of seeing potential in a breeder by their website and their words and their dogs. *sigh* silly.




sheepjoke

[Sapphire-Light]

No reason for you to get so mean and nasty sheepjoke. I'm simply saying that not everyone is honest. There are plenty of people that say their dogs are one thing and they aren't. All I'm saying is that if you want to go by a typed up version of a pedigree then by all means go ahead. I simply like to see everything before making a decision. Granted, they look like they know what they are doing and have plenty of pictures of them in the show ring. I never said I knew anything about shih tzu's but they do look nice.

If you want to believe everybody then go ahead. I simply choose to err on the side of caution when dealing with breeders I don't know.

BTW, I can ask questions any time I want and believe what I like regardless of your opinions. You don't have to be buying from someone to be interested in the welfare of others...or are you that selfish?

Harley as far as I know the best way to find out if a person really owns a pedrigree dog is to contact the canine federation of the area where they live.

In this case the AKC, also is posible to ask references of the beagle breeders HoundedByHounds is sayin.

Also even a scan of a pedigree could be the same thing as just the typed vertion of a pedigree in a web, since everyones knows that with photoshop is posible to fake many things, or it can be taken for another site.


If they had tons of puppies avalible they would say it to me in the reply of the E-mail I sent, something like "we have many puppies of different ages and colors avalible,we have X number of pregnant females," or they would asked me for making a deposit on a incoming litter, but they didn't.

They just say that they MAY have a litter next year.


The same way you or we don't know if this dogs are really they own property is the same way we don't know if you really have dogs, of if they have pedigrees, if the pics of your sig are dogs from other person, or if you or your breeders friends have something personal agaist this people.

If you are so shure that the pics of that site are stolen, so why don't post a link of the site from they where taked?



I know that in the internet they are scammers, but NOT evrything is a fake.

To think that every breeder that has a web is fake and a liar is the same type of thinking some people have that all pit bull, doberman and rottweiler are blood thristy killing monsters.

Is good to be carefull about making a desition like buyin a dog, if I was buyin a dog blindly then I woun't posted the site here, but just because they are some rotten apples that dosen't mean all breeders are bad.

If you have proof that this people are scammers then go ahead and post it.

[HoundedByHounds]

No reason for you to get so mean and nasty sheepjoke. I'm simply saying that not everyone is honest.

Actually since all your posts have related to this website...and would not have been made out of thin air, without the link being provided...you are saying "these" people are not honest....which is quite a different matter.

I know the breeders of their hounds, to be reputable and sell to other reputable breeders. You did actually insult them a bit and me as well as I know them and spoke up for them as being reputable.

I am not overly offended because I do know you likely meant only good things...but...all the same, let's be honest here...your comments about scams, were directed at this link...and did not appear out of thin air directed at no one in particular.

[HarleyD]

not being nasty, being factual


of course you can ask questions but that does not mean you deserve an answer

Well now I know who NOT to ask when I would like an answer to something that most everyone else would consider important.

your insinuations towards these people you do not know and your assumptions are insulting to me and other reputable breeders
I insinuate nothing about anyone. I simply wish to verify validity before making final decisions. How is it insulting you, especially if you don't know them? I have nothing against reputable breeders. They willingly give out their info.


you telling me i dont now a show dog when i see it is insulting
Why? If you know what a show dog looks like then you shouldn't be insulted. You should be willing to share the info. I know what certain breeds should look like when they show as well. Doesn't mean I'm an expert. Are yOU?


i think its obvious who is nasty and its not me, offended, yes, i am offended. until you have ten mentors in ten different breeds for 30 years have produced champions and have shown and finished dogs you should not put such harsh judgements on people or assume they know less than you.


I never said anything about you. So why do you get so touchy...unless it's your website?

i believe everybody? what makes you ASSUME that, really? because I know these people have a factual website and show dogs...by the way i never said they were reputable, did i? i said they warrent further investigation as they look good on the website. as far as believeing everybody that is goofy adn a horrible untrue statement. i am very critical of breeders and it is easy for me to weed out the liars and cheats. obviously i must assume from this thread that you uprefer to call everyone liars and cheats unless they prove to you otherwise though you have, from what i gather, done nothing in dogs as far as reputable breeding, showing, or health testing.

How do you know they have a factual website? Are they your friends, neighbors, yourself? A paragraph ago you insinuated they were reputable and that you were insulted that I did not think they were. So why is it o.k. for YOU to say they warrant further investigation, but not me? How would you know what I've done with dogs? You assume nothing since you haven't bothered to ask. Assuming is never a good thing, that is exactly why I ask questions.

edit: btw, what breeders do you know, exactly? how many? and those are the only people you choose to believe are reputable? comon. but me who has been to shows for upteen years and knows hundreds in the dog world, i am not capable in your eyes of seeing potential in a breeder by their website and their words and their dogs. *sigh* silly.

I know breeders in Il, S.C. and a few other states as a matter of fact. I believe people are reputable when they are more than willing to share the ins and outs of their breed, their specific dogs, their health certs, pedigrees, trials, shows, etc. If you are reputable you should be willing to answer any and every question no matter how trivial you may think it is.


sheepjoke
I believe I've said all that needs to be said on the subject of the website you are so offended over me questioning.

[Sapphire-Light]

Now this IS funny


Assuming is never a good thing

Of couse, but YOU ARE asumming this people are cheaters, thiefs and liars.

Why do you complain about a piece of hay in another person eye, when YOU have an entire tree in your own?? what makes you think you have more rights over other members of this forums?

What age are you? fisical and mentally? you sound like a 3 year old.

And sheepjoke asked you before if you have show dogs, breed ch, doing helth test haven't you notice?? but you said he/she didn't and others menbers asked you other things as well and you haven't awnsered.

I know what certain breeds should look like when they show as well. Doesn't mean I'm an expert. Are yOU?

Hmm.. in this thread http://www.chazhound.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62531&page=3 you said this

I Are all of the colors they mentioned even showable? I don't know much about Shih Tzu's

Note, in the shih tzu standar it says "all colors are acceptable"

[sheepjoke]

good gravy. I think we have to consider the person this is coming from.

Someone who "insinuates" those are his/her dogs in their sig photos, by putting their names on them. In fact, none of those are his/her dogs. None. someone who admits to feeding their dogs crappy food but wonders why they have stinky gas.

*clears throat*

What is the word for that?

Hypocritical, yes. Thats it.
everyone is a liar and thief except harley d who from what i can gather does not show dogs but assumes that all breeders are bad because...well because he/she says and because i could not possibly know what i am talking about nor could anyone else who has commented on this thread with KNOWLEDGE and experience.



insulting, it is. but ima thinkin i will get uninsulted considering the source who cannot even realize they are wrong or at least when to stop commenting on something they know nothing about.




now this is the last i will say about this subject as i think it is obvious who knows what and who knows squat. call me mean or nasty or whatever i just calls it as i sees it and am no dummy when it comes to what i sees.



sheepjoke

[HarleyD]

Your just an uppity old nasty bat that can't take criticism.
I admited the dogs in my siggie weren't "mine" and stated why as well. I don't have pics of my dogs on my comp so I found some that look like them, asked if someone would make a siggie and had one made (by a member of THIS FORUM). So if you don't like my sig then talk to them.

I'm old enough to know alot about dogs, different breeds, health certs, conformation qualities, temperaments, etc. However, I don't know squat about little dog breeds and don't want to cause I don't ever plan on owning or showing a little dog.
As for champions, our Rot has plenty in his pedigree. Unless you don't count SchH II FH or CD TT or CH as being anything "good enough" for your great talents of discerning dog quality.

So my dad doesn't feed great dog food. What's it to ya? He's got a good paying job where all the money goes to the mortgage, cat and dog vet bills (as needed), helping my grandmother's hospital bills...and let's not forget his own since he's contracted Hepatitis in Vietnam when one of his buddies died in his arms and his blood got all over him. But who cares about our life and trials you are always right...right?
Forget that not everyone can feed Royal Canin or even Eukanuba to their dogs...no matter how much they love them and would like to. Sometimes you do what you have to do and God knows we've shorted ourselves on food many a month to make sure the dogs and cats were fed.
But you are so much better and my opinions don't matter. So I'm cautious about online breeders. If you believe every ad you see you'll really end up with a great dog. When you do you can name him "Lemon".

I'm done with you. You don't care about anyone but yourself and do not respect anyone elses opinions at all.