Is it bad to keep a dog and not breed him?

[LB2007]

Is it a terrible thing to keep a dog and not breed him? By that I mean for him to be unneutered

[Dekka]

what do you mean keep a dog?

[LB2007]

Well for eexample, I bought mine with the purpose of possibly studding him out. BUT I have a problem as the breeders in my area are all unethical and I will have to now go to another country to stud him out

[LB2007]

I would like to have one puppy from him, but the only possiblity will be to get a female breed her keep the pup. But I know nothing about breeding this or any dog. But I would dearly love to have one day an offspring from him. So far he is perfect for showing and breeding

[~Jessie~]

Are you planning on showing him and getting the proper health testing performed?

You bought him because you wanted a stud dog? :yikes:

[LB2007]

Are you planning on showing him and getting the proper health testing performed?

You bought him because you wanted a stud dog? :yikes:


Waht proper health testing? I paid several thousands for him as a show/breed prospect, so far he has no faults at all. He gets his checks for patella and teeth, bite etc each vet visit which seems now like weekly
And yes, he will be shown providing everything remains the way it is now

[Dekka]

Its fine as long as you make sure there are no accidental pairings. Kaiden is intact and has sired 2 litters. Snip is intact, and has yet to sire anything. (I want to do more with him first)

[LB2007]

Are you planning on showing him and getting the proper health testing performed?

You bought him because you wanted a stud dog? :yikes:


I bought him because I wanted a Pomeranian, and then when I realized the quality of dog I as getting of course the breeder asked me if I will be interested in showing and breding him as he is too wonderful a dog to sit at home. He is my PET first and foremost and if I stud IT WONT BE FOR MONEY but for an offspring and it will be ONE time

[~Jessie~]

I'm talking about actual health tests... not vet visits.

And ALL dogs are wonderful... it doesn't mean that they should all be bred.

[Dekka]

Waht proper health testing? I paid several thousands for him as a show/breed prospect, so far he has no faults at all. He gets his checks for patella and teeth, bite etc each vet visit which seems now like weekly
And yes, he will be shown providing everything remains the way it is now

I don't know your breed at all, but some breeds there is genetic testing for issues, CERF tests, BAER tests etc etc.. Before you breed you should have all those checked. He should have a successful show record in some thing (agility obed, even conformation..just something)

You should also join your breed club, there is likely a code of ethics to sign.

How much you paid has nothing to do with how good your dog is. You can buy an awesome Show/breeding prospect in my breed for under 1200, or you can buy a Irish Jack (non registrable Irish puppy mill dogs) for 2500.

[MafiaPrincess]

No one will want to use a dog as a stud unless they are skeazy.. Without titling him and health testing him.

I too have a show prospect. He will be shown though.. The price tag alone doesn't dictate anyone wanting to use your dog, nor does it mean that they won't hit 6 months and somehow go out of standard.

[Xerxes]

Waht proper health testing? I paid several thousands for him as a show/breed prospect, so far he has no faults at all. He gets his checks for patella and teeth, bite etc each vet visit which seems now like weekly
And yes, he will be shown providing everything remains the way it is now

I've NEVER seen a dog with no faults.

[PoodleMommy]

I've NEVER seen a dog with no faults.

You have obviously not met my dogs!;)

:p sorry, I couldnt resist!

to the OP: Please do ALOT of research before you consider doing this.

Elissa

[noludoru]

Is it bad to keep an intact dog and not breed him? No. But if he's around females in heat a lot it's probably not the most fun for him, and I'd neuter him. If he doesn't have bad behaviors stemming from being intact and he's not constantly going nuts because a bitch is in heat next door, then IMO you're not doing anything wrong. As long as he is ALWAYS under control. On a leash, in a fenced in area, you name it--he cannot be allowed to run loose.

Now, if you are going to breed him.... he needs to be shown to at least a championship IMO if not farther. He needs to be excellent at something--I know Pomeranians were bred for companionship, but I agree with Dekka. He needs to have something REAL to contribute to his offspring, not just some sperm. If he isn't truly excellent then I honestly don't think he should be bred.

Oh, and for health testing.. OFAs, CERFs, etc. You need to do some research on what things are important to be tested for in your breed.

[MafiaPrincess]

Long list of pom problems http://www.mbfonline.com/pomhealth/

[ToscasMom]

You have obviously not met my dogs!;)

:p sorry, I couldnt resist!

to the OP: Please do ALOT of research before you consider doing this.

Elissa

Or mine!
Hahahaha.

OP really, unless your dog has been proven, I see no reason why a reputable breeder would want to stud him. If you show him and he becomes a CH, then maybe i would say you can consider it but right now, your dog is just one more cute POM just like my dog is just one more cute Collie. My dog has no flaws either j/k. Every time I look at her I just think she's Perfect.

[Tankstar]

I have a intact male, he is not a breeder, nore will he ever be. But witht he risks of surgery for him (heart murmur) I never got him neutard, becuase the risk is to much for him to be on the operating room table.

Males who are unnetared need in my opnion more training, not becuase they are bad. But becuase they will follow their instincts. Blaze is totally confined when int he back yard and no way to escape. When on walks he is on leash so he cant take off to find a female. And at the dog park he is under watchfull eye at all times, ofcourse he would be under watchful eyes even if he was neutard. With him, he shows no intrest in mating at all. Even after spending 3 hours with a female in heat (The owner didnt tell me she was in heat until we were done our off lead walk in the woods :yikes:)

You say this:
Well for eexample, I bought mine with the purpose of possibly studding him out. BUT I have a problem as the breeders in my area are all unethical and I will have to now go to another country to stud him out
And then you say these 2 things:

Waht proper health testing? I paid several thousands for him as a show/breed prospect, so far he has no faults at all. He gets his checks for patella and teeth, bite etc each vet visit which seems now like weekly
And yes, he will be shown providing everything remains the way it is now


I would like to have one puppy from him, but the only possiblity will be to get a female breed her keep the pup. But I know nothing about breeding this or any dog. But I would dearly love to have one day an offspring from him. So far he is perfect for showing and breeding


Yous ay all the breeders in your area are unethical. yet you want to breed with out kniwng anything at all about breeding, showing or proper health tests. You want to breed just to have a puppy from him, that itslef is unethical.

[corgipower]

Well for eexample, I bought mine with the purpose of possibly studding him out. BUT I have a problem as the breeders in my area are all unethical and I will have to now go to another country to stud him out

so here you say you bought him intending to breed him

I bought him because I wanted a Pomeranian, and then when I realized the quality of dog I as getting of course the breeder asked me if I will be interested in showing and breding him as he is too wonderful a dog to sit at home. He is my PET first and foremost and if I stud IT WONT BE FOR MONEY but for an offspring and it will be ONE time

here you say you bought him just because you wanted a pom and then the breeder asked you if you would be interested in breeding.

i'm a little bit confused here.

[Lilavati]

Well, to answer your original question:

No, it won't hurt an intact male not to breed him. But if you're not going to breed him, there's really no reason to keep him intact . . . it just opens you to the problems of having an intact male dog, like wandering, marking, possible aggression, and testicular cancer.

Whether you SHOULD breed him is another question all together, and I think the others are covering that

[bubbatd]

Good luck !!! Unless your phone rings , forget it !! Advertising a good stud will only bring in BYBs.

[Momof2Pups]

I'd back up a few steps before just jumping into the idea that you're going to breed him. Every dog is lovely, but breeding dogs should be ones that have something amazing to put forward and will improve the breed. Make him a ch., title him, show him, try to get his TDI, have him pass all health checks, educate yourself on the proper steps to breeding. THEN think about the possibility of breeding him.
Just my .02.

[SummerRiot]

Waht proper health testing? I paid several thousands for him as a show/breed prospect, so far he has no faults at all. He gets his checks for patella and teeth, bite etc each vet visit which seems now like weekly
And yes, he will be shown providing everything remains the way it is now

Proper health testing would mean OFA Xrays of hips done at the LEAST..

If I were you I'd go and check what all other RESPECTIBLE breeders are testing for in your breed.

I know with Belgians you need to get the OFA hips and Elbows done, eyes CERF AND their Thyroid tested.

My intact male has gotten his OFA tested and his Thyroid done(not sent to OFA yet though). And I have no future plans on breeding him.

You dont need to breed your dog IF he doens't have any titles - there are enough dogs out there without having to add in dogs that have no life accomplishments at all.

You dont need to breed your dog IF yoru in it for the money

You dont need to breed your dog IF he has any genetic health problems - there are enough out there already

you dont need to breed your dog IF they have ANY temperment issues

You dont need to breed your dog IF you just want a baby from him.

There are ENOUGH GOOD breeders out there that have a excellent reputation you can purchase from. you dont need to add into the population of unwanted illbred dogs.

If your dog is as perfect as you say he is - show him and prove it.

And to answer your original question - Yes it is bad to keep a dog intact if you have no plans on breeding him (unless you are showing).

They have a MUCH higher chance of getting testicular cancers - not to mention all of the bad habits intact males can get - marking, dominance,bad mannerisms.. etc.

[shadowfacedanes]

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r43/KSD75/breed.gif

[SummerRiot]

YAY! I was looking for that!!

[ToscasMom]

Tosca wants to have Riot's baby.

[SummerRiot]

LMAO if she regrows her ovaries tell her its a deal lmao!!

[bubbatd]

Shadow that's old but great !!! I sent that home with every pup's papers years ago !!! I'm happy to say that unless they were shown , everyone spayed and neutered thier pups .

[Paige]

I don't think it's cruel. My dogs are intact. They won't be for much longer but I've left them this long with there man jewels still there. They are happy boys. I feel like I have to tell people my dog isn't neutered though. Like if we're going out for a walk and some dog wants to say hi I think the owner should be aware just in case his dog isn't spayed. You know?

[ToscasMom]

LMAO if she regrows her ovaries tell her its a deal lmao!!

Well she said she doesn't mind just fooling around then.

[SummerRiot]

LOL Riots up for that then TM.. he has to warn her - he is a player though..

[FoxyWench]

persoanlly i dont feel there is such a think as NO faults, even the top winning dogs have some tiny faults...
and unless your a show judge you woulndt be able to judge your dog and see many of the faults anyway.
im sure hes a cutie, but hes a puppy, and theres much under the fur and hair that you as just an owner/fancier that you wouldnt see...sometimes even the experienced need a second set of eyes to see the faults in their own dogs.

secondly, just because your vet checks his knees and teeth every week doesnt mean hes "healthy" poms suffer a number of health problems that need to be checked for, heart, thyroid, hips and knees are only a few. these need to be checked for via an independant lab, these are not things your vet checks for.

thirdly, most good show breeders will NOT sell show quality stock to someone looking for a pet puppy. if someone wants a show quality pup from me they have to PROVE they know what there doing...and then they go on the waitinglist, and in such cases i co-own that dog to be sure its being shown and used for breeding purposes to some strict standards. Id be a little worried by any breeder that says "hey you interested in showing/breeding? i got the dog for you!" i will at least offer to mentor/work with someone who's never been involved before but is interested. i dont just send a dog home on a full contract to someone who is unknowledgable.

fourthly, NEVER breed just because you "want a puppy just like him" the likelyhood of getting a dog like him even from his own offspring is extreemly low, this is NOT an ethical way to breed, and would put you in the same grounds as those unethical people you talk about in your post.

and lastly, an intact male is more prone to not only testicular cancer and behavioural "problems" (marking, harder to train, wandering ect) as well as often being excluded from some fun things (many dog parks and doggy daycares do not allow males over 2 yrs old that are unneutered) but you also run the risk of prostate problems and even dog agression.


if you would like to show him then go for it, its lots of fun and you cna meet some cool people. what registry is he with? AKC?

if he shows well and works to his championship AND passes with clears and good/greats on his health testing, and your reaserch into his background goes well (because if your breeding you need to know the health and peronsality of 5 gens at least past! not just your dog as some things are ressessive)
and then you can find a female whos as worthy as he has by that point proven to be, THEN you can breed...

And as a side note...due to the typically small littersize of poms (and other toy breeds) many breeders will offer stud fee only!
Personally i dont offer a puppy ad payment for any breedings because chis litter-sizes average so small. so you may not even get your puppy out of the breeding anyway.

If your not willing to go through all the time, potential issues and MONEY! then get him neutered as soon as your vet feels comfortable (for toy breeds 6-8 months is fine)

[HoundedByHounds]

thirdly, most good show breeders will NOT sell show quality stock to someone looking for a pet puppy.

There are qualifications to this. Some breeders PREFER their dogs be pets first and they make contracts/arrangements to put a potentially nice pup with a pet home...on the stipulation that the pup be made available to show. The pet home may have no prior experience but are a fabulous home. Many good show people got their start this way...it may or may not lead to breeding down the road. Not everyone is "born into the kennel" or even knows they like dog showing until they try it.

Puppies can fool even the best eyes sometimes. That pup you thought have a short muzzle or overbite..but was otherwise nice that you placed as a pet on limited....may turn out to be the best pup in the litter. If you keep open lines of communication...those situations can turn into a changed reg. and the pup being shown by the breeder.

The only thing concrete about showing and breeding dogs is that nothing is concrete...there are always situations that are outside the norm, that work well for all parties involved...including the dogs.

[GHOST]

you all bunch of puppy peddlers,,,

tankster said it first but,,,i'll finish it,,,

to lead is to set by example,,,, breeding talked
in these terms sound like peddling,,,lmao,,,

talk bout a foot in the mouth,,, pull it out i say

[Xerxes]

you all bunch of puppy peddlers,,,

tankster said it first but,,,i'll finish it,,,

to lead is to set by example,,,, breeding talked
in these terms sound like peddling,,,lmao,,,

talk bout a foot in the mouth,,, pull it out i say

como se huh?

[LuvinBullies]

como se huh?

I'll translate :D

Ghost is a pal...what he is trying to say is the thread's title/ OP's original post sounds like he only wanted the dog to peddle pups off of. It's a topic that gets some of us on another forum pretty hot.

Ghost my love... the OP hasn't been here very long, his posts in this thread don't reflect that of the majority around here concerning this topic. I think he's still learning. Trust me- the majority of folks around here would not classify as puppy peddlers ;)

[SummerRiot]

OMG .. if you think that all of us are "puppy peddlers" you need to think again..

LB is NEW here.. and does not in ANYWAY reflect this forum.

and it steams me to be linked to that person

[LuvinBullies]

LB is NEW here.. and does not in ANYWAY reflect this forum.

and it steams me to be linked to that person


Tell me about it. LB was MY abbreviation :D

[GHOST]

me llamo ghost,,,


lol,,,,

Summerriot,,,lol,,, no sence of humor? lol,,,

LB i was just yanking there chain,,,lol,,, you know how i am,,,figured i get a response,,, but one in spanish,,,hummm interesting,,,

[LuvinBullies]

me llamo ghost,,,


lol,,,,

Summerriot,,,lol,,, no sence of humor? lol,,,

LB i was just yanking there chain,,,lol,,, you know how i am,,,figured i get a response,,, but one in spanish,,,hummm interesting,,,

Mmmm. Hmmmm. Did you get to take that drip home with you Mr. Funny Fellow? LOL

Well at least you didn't sign in under a different screen name over here and talk about your personal euthanasia choice being a claw hammer. You would never do a thing like that to make a mod poop their pants....wouldya Ghost? :D

Your sense of humor is random and twisted with no schematic to it at all.

I absolutely love it.:p


{Sorry to be so fiercely OT guys}

[GHOST]

BALL PIN hammer,, works quicker and alot quiter,,,,, powww!!! and its over,,,I'll have to teach you the technique one these days,,, wait a fine lady such as urself should never be subjected to such a thing,,, oh well i guess i'm on my own with my hammer,,for now,,, till i can coax u over to my twisted side of life,,,,lmfao,,,,too funny,,,:eek: :hail:

[FrenchKissed]

Proper health testing would mean OFA Xrays of hips done at the LEAST..



According to OFA only something like 57 poms have ever been Xrayed and 90+ percent of those were normal. Xraying hips is not done for all breeds.

[SummerRiot]

Well.. I'm not 100% on what a Pom requires for Health testing.. but I KNOW its more then a vet visit.

[HoundedByHounds]

LCP perchance...heart things....knee things...eye things...lol.

[planet molosser]

No it wont hurt not to breed him.
Genetic inherited disease take 2-3 years at time to come out.
No dog has not faults the dog needs to be judged by a breeder expert in a written critique form to pick out both his good and bad points . SO you could find a suitable match. Temperament for males also takes a while to express as they mature from 1-3 years depending on the breed.

A good breeder would of lined you up with a female .
A well shown exhibited dog will have quality females lining up for him.

This all takes time.

[planet molosser]

Breeders should be able to supply proof that their dogs have been examined by a veterinarian and that their stock has been x-rayed clear of hip dysplasia. The latter, preferably with an OFA certification number.
http://www.americanpomeranianclub.org/breeder_referral.htm

Stud dog owners should want to prove the dogs to all levels to increase stud fees and to breed only the best.

[verderben]

I don't think it matters if he is intact or not. My bfs NEUTERED male dog is a thousands times WORSE when one of my girls is in heat than my intact dog. Sebastian (neutered) will NOT leave them alone, he will even stand outside thier cage and cry and hump the air, and he will do this from day 1 of the heat cycle. SO yay me I get to deal with it for 3 weeks. Glad we got him neutered to avoid all the behaviors he exhibits when they go in heat :rolleyes: . Bane (intact) could care less until the females are ovulating. So IMO neutering him isn't gonna make much difference.

[noludoru]

Verderben, it all depends upon the dog and training as far as those behaviors go.

[JennSLK]

No dog is perfect and even if it was Judges and breeders would never agree that it was. LOL

A good breeder can pick apart thier dogs. They know their good and BAD points inside and out. What their lines produce and what they DONT produce. Not to mention what health issues are in each line.

[MoonStr80]

Um. Your question does not make sense. If you're trying to say if "you're not educated breeder" most of all it's a insult to many breeders well respect breeders. I have had two dogs in my life NEVER had intent to breed any of them period!

Go here
Good Breeders, Bad Breeders (http://www.yourpurebredpuppy.com/buying/common/breeders.html)

How to Pick a Good Breeder (http://www.petplace.com/dogs/how-to-pick-a-good-breeder/page1.aspx)

Backyard Breeder vs Reputable Breeder (http://www.jlhweb.net/Boxermap/reputablebreeder.html)

[HarleyD]

http://www.mbfonline.com/pomhealth/
Site shows all the potential health problems that your Pom could have and what you should test for.
http://www.pomeranian.org/content/view/20/34/
Site gives the U.S. Pom standards (and access to other countries) so you will know when your Pom is older if he's actually standard.