Obedience Class Quandry

[Cessena]

Last week we had our first group obedience class with our husky Vlad. The class is very good, they use clicker and +R, they give us articles about our dog's specific issues, well worth the low price of $120 for 8 weeks. It was a small to mid sized disaster for various reasons. Firstly, he gets very anxious around other dogs on leash, he spent most of the class pacing and pulling on his leash, and I spent most of it trying to distract him with food. I think I learned, literally, nothing, I was so busy trying to keep him calm and away from the other dogs. Secondly it was SO HOT in the gym, he was getting dehydrated, but it was very difficult to get him in and out to get him water because there were so many dogs.

He has diarehha today so we weren't planning to take him, just becuase it is is so stressful for him even when he's 100%. It is also really hot out again today, and an hour and a half in a sweatbox would rough on my arctic furball.

I guess my problem is that my boyfriend doesn't feel like this is very helpful and that is discouraging me. I have found it interesting, though a lot of the information I have read elsewhere. I think it would be nice to do some actual training with someone around to help me but Vlad is completely freaked out the whole time we're not able to actually work on anything. I am concerned that that wont go away over time. (I am using a program they gave us for when we go on walks, getting him to focus on me when there are other dogs around. Hopefully over time this will help him behave better on leash, but I think it will take a while.) He is also so stubborn and it takes him so long to pick up on things that we will always be well behind the class, so I doubt we'll be able to keep up with the number of things they are giving us to train.

Is it worth continuing to take him when he's feeling well? Or will it just keep stressing him out? I tried to make it as nice as possible, lots of loving, string cheese, hot dogs. (You know your dog is stressed when he ignores hot dogs.)

If anyone has any guidance I'd really appreciate it. I think my boyfriend just wants to quit, and i'm tired and stressed and don't want to go, I just want to do the best thing for my dog.

[Charliesmommy]

How old is your dog? I am thinking I would probably wait, work with him on leash walking for a while and then maybe try again when they offer the next course of classes. The place I took Charlie to, once you paid for it, you could come back any time so even if you missed classes, you could jump in on other classes later so as not to lose any money.

[corgipower]

i think the heat would be my main reason for not wanting to go back, and i wonder how the accoustics are. i have been in gyms with the dogs, and some are ok, but most have funny accoustic effects which tend to make a nervous dog even more nervous.

i agree that perhaps group classes should wait. work on quiet focus either on your own or see if you can set up private lessons.

[Cessena]

Vlad is somewhere between 3-5 years old, we've had him for about 3 months. I think adding to his fear in addition to the gym accustics (which aren't that bad for a gym) is that he his partially blind as well. That always makes him more unsure in new situations.

I don't think we can get our money back, but one of his humans can go, and watch class, pick up materials and take notes, and then we can work at our own pace in a more comfortable space. I was hoping that being around more other dogs and having fun would help with his issues, but it seems like that's not going to happen.

[Charliesmommy]

It sounds like he definitely needs some more socialization, maybe just not in that atmosphere.

[squirtsmom]

Poor dog. Hang in there and keep working with him. It will get better, but it takes time. Some dogs are tougher than others. Patience will win the game. That is as peppy as I get. LOL.

[adojrts]

First I would approach the trainer, ask if you can exchange for privates or semi privates. Explain everything to them. Or you could ask to moved to a group class after you purchase some extra privates first etc. Ask them if you can sit quietly in the gym while another class is in progress, if he gets too hot or too distracted, take him for a break outside. Also I would avoid hot dogs in warm/hot weather, they are high in sodium therefore contributing to the dehydration problem.

Good luck
Lynn

[Melissa_W]

It's hard to judge since I can't actually see what's happening, but in our first obedience class, there were 2-3 dogs that were highly aroused on the first day, similar to what you described. But they were better the second time, and continued to progress from there. Maybe you should go one more time to see if he is more settled. If he's not, then I would take the suggestion adojrts gave.

[IliamnasQuest]

I've often had overly-stressed dogs in class, much like you describe your dog being. Some people here adopt adult sled dogs who have had no real socialization or training and are completely confused at a class setting. But I encourage them to stick with the class, and this is what I have them do.

First, I tell them to forget what the rest of the class is working on. A dog that is stressed to that point doesn't need the pressure of learning to sit and down and stay. The first thing the dog needs is to gain an acceptance of being in the situation. So I tell them to bring some really good treats - tiny bits of lightly cooked meat (chicken breast or beef heart are good), maybe with a very light dusting of garlic powder. Other options are liverwurst, smoked sausages, even beef baby food or cat food (bring a spoon! *L*). What you want is something SO delectable that the dog finds it to be a reward even if they're stressed.

Then I have the student with the stressed dog come to class a few minutes early, set a chair against the wall (or inside an ex-pen, if I have one to set up - this is especially important if the dog is aggressive at all). I have the student sit on the chair with their dog on a 4-6 foot leash, and then I tell them to do nothing but watch their dog and reinforce for every positive behavior they can see. That means if their dog gives them attention, they praise and give a treat. If their dog sees another dog walk by without reacting to the dog, praise and treat. If their dog lays down and watches the class, praise and treat. What you want is to have their dog start to realize that being there isn't such a bad thing. They aren't pushed to DO anything, they're simply rewarded for being calm and showing non-anxious behaviors.

If the dog is acting anxious, the student is to do nothing. No sweet words, no petting - NO reinforcement of those anxious behaviors! There's also no pulling back on the leash or scolding. The key is to catch the dog at the times when he's showing a behavior you want, reward that, and gradually he will start offering those behaviors more and more.

It's imperative that everyone else in the class understand what's going on and to not let their dogs get too close to the stressed dog at this time. I explain to the class that their dog has issues and they're trying to deal with those issues, and that they are going to sit calmly in a chair and reinforce for certain behaviors while everyone else does other things. I don't make a big thing of it, just enough explanation so that they're aware that the dog needs a certain space around it.

A lot of times we see a huge difference just in one session, because the dog is learning that nothing bad is going to happen. If the dog improves quite a bit, we may move them closer in on the second session or even have the owner stand closer - or even walk their dog back and forth across one end. They still don't ask much from the dog and they still reward every "good" behavior they can see.

At home, they can be doing the sit and down and stay homework, but until the dog is comfortable in the class setting, it's just adding stress to expect them to do that at class. But as the dog gradually gets more comfortable, you start adding in the things you've worked on at home. You don't expect the dog to do them well at class, though, and you guide them gently while watching for any signs of stress. If the dog starts getting more stressed, then you back off and don't worry about the obedience behaviors. The BIG GOAL is to provide your dog with the ability to not be so stressed.

It may be that you'll get through the entire eight weeks and your dog is just now relaxed and able to handle things. Then maybe you take another eight week class. The first night or two you'll probably see a return of the stress because now your dog is dealing with a whole new set of dogs, but he'll likely move through that quickly and you'll be able to do more of the obedience exercises.

I encourage you to bring your own water, too. Bring a bowl and a bottle of water that you can keep near your dog. That way there's no stress of trying to get to a communal water bowl or through the dogs to go outside to get water. You may also want to bring a washcloth and towel, so you can wet the washcloth and cool his belly at times (if it's really hot in there). I do that with my chows. They're not impressed but I can see how it helps them (their panting gets lighter after I cool them down). The towel will help you keep the area dry as the instructors probably wouldn't be too pleased if you left water all over.

And I also recommend that all the training you do at the class be done either on a flat collar or on a front-clip harness. If they recommend a choke chain or prong collar, keep in mind that your dog is already stressed and adding the discomfort of a training collar will certainly increase the stress.

If you decide to try this technique, contact the trainers and tell them you'd like to try this. It's very valid and I would hope that the trainers can understand what you'd be working on. Tell them that you're not concerned that your dog learn all the behaviors at this time and that you're primarily wanting him to learn how to deal with stress. If they haven't done this before, hopefully they'll see how valid it is and it may be a good learning experience for them, too.

Good luck!

Melanie and the gang in Alaska

[Doberluv]

I like the idea of exchanging for privates and in addition, finding a few friends with friendly dogs that your dog likes....take walks together, (walking parallel often helps) have a little play time in someone's yard if he's up for that...for now. Just see if he can enjoy being around a smaller group (1 other dog, then maybe 2, then 3 dogs...work up to that).

The point is that he learns some skills which you can teach him by himself and add some distractions later. And that he gets a little socialization. Then, down the road a ways, see if a small class might be more comfortable for him....if you and he would enjoy that. I don't see the point in trying to over-come all that stress, the heat, the fact that he's almost blind...in a weird environment, a lot of dogs and people probably.... etc at this time. JMO.

[~Tucker&Me~]

I agree with Melanie :)

~Tucker

[Cessena]

Thanks for your advice guys, it really helps to have some more expert opinions on this.

The weird thing is when he's off leash he's really fine with other dogs, he goes to day care once a week and they say he's doing well, no issues with the other dogs. I think it is something about being on leash that bothers him. (He has a lot of scars on his face and there is a little chunk out of his ear, so he may have been attacked on leash at some point, but that is honestly pure speculation.) But then..he's lived in multi dog homes all his life until now, the whole situation is a total mystery to me.

I am going to start looking around in the area for other dogs he could socialize with, I just wish my neighbors weren't all so..... rich.