down?!

[FoxyWench]

ok so ruby is smart ill give her that...
and shes doign great.
im hoping to get her in a basic ob class once ive got some cash comming in again.

she walks great on leash...still working on heal off leash, i swear cresties are part sight hound...soemthing moves forget it, she is suddenly deaf and NEEDS to chase it, she does TRY, and when onleash she stys by my side but i can feel her tremble with excitment even if a leaf passes by...

anywho.
sit shes got, paw she has down pat, high 5 and 10 she knows (and yes knows the difference between), she asks to go out no problem...recall is still scetchy but getting there, again depedns on whats running by at the time lol.

she knows "find it" and can distinguish between different objects, including buildings and cars, yes she can find MY car out of a parking lot full of cars,

but for some reason, this dog just cannot get "DOWN" she wont laydown.
now ive watched her when she lays for sleeping, she doesnt seem comfortable...same with sit, her butt never truly touches the floor as if its uncomfortable...but shell do it and stay, when it comes to laying down though...she just doesnt seem to graps the concept...

ive tried luring her down, ive tried PUTTING her in a down, ive tried rewarding her everytime i see her laying down by using the word and treat to get her to associate...

i just dont know...

suggestions?

[houndlove]

Have you ever tried method three talked about here: http://www.dogshome.org/rehabilitate/basic_training/#4

Marlowe was just a dickens with down and my trainer showed me that way and we fed him his dinner like that every single day for a couple weeks and finally he got it.

[ToscasMom]

For my part, DOWN was the last thing Tosca learned to do well. I had a devil of a time with it. She would go down sometimes and grumble and moan the entire time and then pop up again first chance she got. I finally solved with with really high value treats. As in horrible pieces of raw hot dog. For a piece of raw hot dog, Tosca would pull a car out of a ditch. So I practiced a lot this way. I mean a lot. Finally, she got used to being in that vulnerable position, but she got plenty of hot dog pieces in the process. Just for what it's worth.

[Zoom]

Virgo wasn't too keen on downing until I started making her down and wait for her dinner. Now it's an automatic behavior with her.

[FoxyWench]

interesting to see others have had issues with the down...i thought it was just ruby lol

thanks for the tips guys...

[Lilavati]

Looks like ruby is shorthaired . . . are you asking her to down on a hard surface? many shorthaired dogs won't down on hardwood or tile . . . put a towel down while teaching . . .

Edit: Looked back at the picture . . . no, not shorthaired, but her hair looks fine . . . might be the same problem . .hard surfaces are uncomfortable.

[Chewbecca]

Ha!
Almost 8 months into training and I STILL have some difficulties getting Ella to down.
I STILL have to point to the ground when I say "down".
I cannot just look at her and say "down" and she plops RIGHT INTO a down. No way!
And even when she DOES down, she slowly slides into a down. But she has gotten a LOT better.

Like another poster said, down is a VERY vulnerable position for some dogs, I know it is for mine.
Down might take you a while, but you've been given some great suggestions and some I'M going to even look into!

[Chewbecca]

Looks like ruby is shorthaired . . . are you asking her to down on a hard surface? many shorthaired dogs won't down on hardwood or tile . . . put a towel down while teaching . . .

Edit: Looked back at the picture . . . no, not shorthaired, but her hair looks fine . . . might be the same problem . .hard surfaces are uncomfortable.

Speaking of, Ella doesn't sit with her butt on the ground.
My trainer calls her a sphinx because she sits stiffly like that.

[Dekka]

Some dogs bums just don't touch the ground when they sit. Its easiest to see in hairless (or really smooth dogs) Its a structure thing, not a training thing.

I have never had an issue with down. I just shape it with the clicker. Usually have them downing in a few min to a couple of sessions. Have you tried that?

[DanL]

How's this for not touching the ground? She sits like this all the time. Her leg bones are so long, this is as low as she can go unless she sits on a hip with her legs out the side.
http://home.comcast.net/~ac88s/7-5-07/stretch.jpg

We taught her down by luring with a treat. It took a while, but she's pretty good with it now. She still has problems going right from standing to a down, but from a sit to a down she's good. We practice sit-down-sit-down over and over, then reward after a series of them.

Gunnar got his down command real easy. By 4 months he was doing long downs with me distracting him by throwing his ball in front of him. With him, we didn't lure, we would give the command and then place him in the position by taking him by the collar under his chin and gently pulling down.

[ToscasMom]

DanL, ROFL!

[Chewbecca]

aw, DanL, she's ADORABLE!

Here's Ella following her own "no butts on the floor" rule.
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa248/chewbucket/P1010241.jpg

She's DEFINITELY sporting the Sphinx butt there!

[FoxyWench]

yup thats ruby in sit lol. only she sits up REAL stright i swear she pulls he front feet right in and together, real lady like she reminds me of a sphinx cat when i see her do it. But like your guys her butt is a good 2 inches off the ground lol.

the down is funk, he front end goes down no problem, but her tush raises off the ground...
i mean i managed to teach her "bow" in about 5 minutes after watching this as a constant lol. Down is still just not "clicking" she doesnt like the sound of a clicker, i think it reminds her of the sound of high heels because if i click she cowers, if a woman walks past us in high heels and makes that similar clicking sound she cowers.
this girl was abused by that nasty woman. *sigh*

but as i said, she has the bow down lol. back end goes down, frint end pulls tight into a gorgeous and regal sit...but as soon as i ask for that front end down her back end goes up lol. shes such a goof.

gotta find a real good high value treat and see what we can do.

i have no worries about it taking time, i just thought she was a little off as the chis had down in seconds flat.

worse comes to worse we continue to work at it and if we dont have it by the time i have the cash for a group class they'll be able to offer some other pointers.

We actually have carpet at home and in the shop so i dont think its a floor issue...but good idea!

she has no problem laying in her dirt patch, mabe we should practice there lol. (i dont know why but this dog LOVES to roll in the grey dirt/sand that our garden is made out of...
Ruby says: its particularly fun first thing in the morning after ive run through the dewwy grass gotten wet then go and lay and roll and play in my dusty spot.

[Boemy]

When you do "down", are her hind legs on the same side of her body, like she's resting with one hip under her? Or is one leg on either side of her body? My dog was uncomfortable lying with one hind leg on either side.

[ToscasMom]

When you do "down", are her hind legs on the same side of her body, like she's resting with one hip under her? Or is one leg on either side of her body? My dog was uncomfortable lying with one hind leg on either side.
That's another part it took me forever to make happen. My trainer insisted on the "relaxed" position in Down and would have me kind of roll her a bit till she got it. I guess it implies that the dog is comfortable in the down and not feeling vulnerable. Still, Tosca does not always do it. Maybe 50-50.

[smkie]

DOwn was so hard with Victor. He would crouch, his belly not on the floor and then spring back up like a jack in the box. It wasn't until he leaned one hip one way or the other that he was actually going to stay down. I used t-touch massage to get him to relax and stay down for more then a millisecond when we first started his training. I think that is why your trainer was insisting on a relaxed postition so they can't spring right back up and get the idea that they are going to stay that way for awhile.

The floor was a huge issue for him, Vic hates concrete and cold floors he will not willingly lay on one for love nor money. I once found him dozing with his head resting on a big fat dog and the rest of him standing. His eyes were closed and he was breathing deep.:D
I avoid training with treats, the massage really does work, they like it alot.