Warlock Doberman!

[bridey_01]

When i first became an instructor i had a wonderful dobie in my class. I decided to do some research on the breed so i could become familiar with it, as i do with all dogs that i train. It was at this point that i came upon the "legend" of the warlock doberman, which desribes a dobe THE SIZE OF A GREAT DANE.
I dismissed this as a myth. Well, not so my friends. Last night at the park, to my astonishment i encountered what was clearly a doberman that i could have definetly ridden like a horse. He was BIGGER than a great dane. His owner was very enthusiastic, the dog's name was even warlock!
He told me that dobermans were originally crossed with great danes, and the offsrping were bred together and so on, to produce the warlock.
Was a lovely dog too, though i hear their lifespan leaves alot to be desired. :eek:

[joce]

Its sick that people give up on health for size. I've heard nothing but bad things abut them.

[RedHotDobe]

Warlocks are a gimmick. Just another money making scheme. This will explain it- http://bakaridobes.westhost.com/publiceducation/PECWarlock.html

And most importantly, there is NO SUCH THING as a Warlock Doberman. Oversized=BYB

[bridey_01]

I already knew all this. I'm not promoting these dogs as great "dobermans". I was just intrigued by the whole issue. I beleive that dobes should stay how they were meant to, not be grossly enlargend for profit.

[siemens716]

i have one of these oversized dobbies in my neighborhood, it doesn;t look very elegant at all.

[Renee750il]

There were some very large German lines. I forget the name of the dog, but a college friend of Charley's, back in the 70's, had some family friends who went to Germany and brought back some pups from a couple of the Champions in the line. They were impressed with Charley's Dobermans, and offered to breed one of their males to one of his females in exchange for a pup. The pup that Charley kept was Hans. Charley always remembers Hansie eating from a milk bucket, lol! When he was 7 months old he weighed 72 pounds . . . The Doberman afficionados wanted Charley to show him as an adult - quickly - before he got completely out of the standard. From his photos, he was a beautiful creature.

[luvmydogs]

i'm actually from germany, and i have to say germans USED to be very cautious and adimant(spelling?) about the look of their dogs. there weren't any "bad" breeders out there. they took great pride in their sizes and health etc. the german rott's . GSD's and dobies seemed to be more sturdy and muscular and not cross bred somewhere down the line...but now it has changed over there too, so i heard. people are quick to just make money and don't give a **** about the animals. the bigger the better...so they think....they'l tell u anything, just to sell...papers can be forged very easily. i never heard about a warlock wither. just like "gottis", i heard they're no good...???is that true?

[mrose_s]

I hate it when people inbreed dogs, thats just gross, so they can get a bigger/faster/angerier dog, its just stupid

[Renee750il]

people are quick to just make money and don't give a **** about the animals. the bigger the better...so they think....they'l tell u anything, just to sell...papers can be forged very easily.

That problem is rearing its head in Brazil with the Fila breed. It's becoming very difficult to find good Fila in Brazil unless you go out to the old farms, and then they don't usually want to part with their dogs. Don't blame 'em for wanting to hang on either!

There's a Fila breeder in Tennessee who is breeding for 200+ pound Filas. Most of the Fila people won't have anything to do with him. He touts them and promotes them as "protection" dogs . . . bragging about ferocity :rolleyes:

[Doberluv]

Yup...it's disgusting! There was in history, a famous and fine Doberman NAMED Warlock. Some of these back yard breeders who breed oversized, unhealthy, unfit for what they're bred to do Dobermans try associating their gimmick with this dog named Warlock.

There is speculation as to what all went into the making of the Doberman. They started out one way and were improved along the way, IMO. A Great Dane is thought to have contributed to them, along with Grey hound, Manchester Terrier, a Shepherd, I think Tevauran (sp?) Rottweiler, possibly Weimeraner. I might be leaving something out. But apparently, the records were lost somewhere along the line.

Anyhow, when they're way oversized, they lose their agility and quickness, lightening speed, can't do what they're bred to do, skeletal health suffers and these breeders (greeders) who don't breed to standard don't care about anything else either. Their genetic health problems are horrible, temperaments may suffer. You name it. It's very annoying. It should be a crime, along with breeding white Dobermans. These are classified as a medium sized dog, for heaven's sake.

[GSDFan05]

I also HATE it when people breed giant sized varieties of a breed just for the novelty, like with the Warlock Doberman and also the King Shepherd (although that involved some outcrossing with other breeds, I think). Any time a breeding program focuses on one specific aspect such as size, color, etc, all of the other things can go down the drain very fast. All genes are linked to other genes, both related and unrelated, and promoting one gene can make other unexpected consequences (such as various health/temperament problems) crop up. The book Animals in Translation by Temple Grandin gives really good information on the dangers of 'single trait selection'.

For me at least, I don't want a novelty, I want a healthy, solid companion above all else.

[nedim]

Some more info I found on the net:


The "Warlock" Dobermans are also known as "Kings" or "Goliaths" and are not really a true Doberman breed.

Their existence stems from a surge in demand for "big bad Dobes" back in the 1970's. It is widely believed that Dobes were bred with Great Danes and some other large breeds to satisfy the demand.

Today the term Warlock is applied to the poorly bred and oversized dog which does not conform to the breed's standards. The original "Warlock" was a dog named "Borong the Warlock." Borong was breed in Florida in the mid 1950's by Theodosia and Henry Frampton.

[Renee750il]

Good research, Nedim :)

[Doberluv]

Yeah, thanks Nedim. That is true that in the 70's they were the "expoited" and popular breed, ruined by byb and jerks. Their temperament suffered from bad breeding and idiots aquired them who didn't know how to handle a Doberman at the bare minimum. No wonder their reputation went all to ****. It's probably like the Pit Bull, popular and then all kinds of garbage comes out of the woodwork to exploit and make a buck.

Thank goodness, Dobermans are not on the top of the list of popularity and a lot of very reputable breeders really made a difference and improvement since the 70's.

[Sapphire-Light]

I'm TOTALLY agaist people who ruing breeds!!
VERY, VERY agaist :mad:

And by the way Renee, most of the people that are ruing the filas brasileiros, mix they dogs whit great danes, napolitan mastiff and mastiffs!!

Tha's just bad. T-T

As I say it before, mantain a breed purity IS a piarity.

[dobesRbest]

It just irks me lol.. if one is going to be responsible and breed dogs.. one should keep them within in the specified standards of that breed! If I wanted something the size of a dane .. I would get a dane (which I also love). I can only figure they want something that looks "scary", but a dobe has a bad enough reputation sometimes they don't need the added stuff. ;) BTW dobie lovers I have a new forum just for dobie lovers I would love to have more people, so far we are a very small number being very new. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pinschersplease/

Bobbie

[Renee750il]

And by the way Renee, most of the people that are ruing the filas brasileiros, mix they dogs whit great danes, napolitan mastiff and mastiffs!!

Tha's just bad. T-T

As I say it before, mantain a breed purity IS a piarity.

I understand that the breed officials and judges in Brazil will often issue 'papers' on a Fila for the right price, regardless of the dog's actual lineage, and some of them actually encourage the dilution of the temperament to make the Fila easier to handle . . . if that's how they feel about it they should deal with a different breed!

[bridey_01]

But let us not forget that the dog itsef should not be reviled. The breeders, definetly.
The one i met was a wonderfully trained guy, albeit rather more like a goofy lab in temperament.

[luvmydogs]

WARLOCK MYTH
http://www.silverdobes.westhost.com/publiceducation/PECWarlock.html

[Manchesters]

Once upon a time, back around 1949 there was a very nice, top winning Doberman named BORONG THE WARLOCK. The kennel name was Warlock. Borong was highly sought after as a stud-----for a very short while. Until it was found that a great many of his offspring were missing teeth!!!!! Of course this took a few years to come to the forefront, but eventually it did.

I personally knew a lady who had a ***** out of Borong, and Ch. Val Eric's Slip Stitch (Borong's female top competitor). That magnificent puppy ended up missing 8 teeth!!!!!!! 4 missing teeth is a disqualification!

Unfortunately the ignorant cling ferociously to their ignorance. There was a moron here where I live who informed me that even tho I had had 25 years experience with the Dobe breed I did not know what I was talking about when I said there was no such thing as a "Warlock" Dobe, and that even bloodline wise, the last Warlock dog (Rojo) had been dead for about 20 years, rofl.

These people do not even know that there is a breed standard. Nor do they want to know. And they know nothing about the health issue with the breed. If they DID know, they would not touch breeding Dobermans with a 20 foot pole!!!!!!

So sad for the various breeds that ignorant money grubbers get involved, and start duping the ignorant public.

Carole E.

[Manchesters]

Being a breeder/exhibitor of 30 years, I did not realize that the legitimate, legal term for a female purebred dog was not permitted to be used on this forum. Imagine my surprise when I saw that word *****'d out on my very first post to this forum. Most embarassing!!!!! Guess I shall have to limit myself to "boy dogs" and "girl dogs", rofl.

Carole

[Doberluv]

It just does it automatically. I used it too and saw that it won't let us do that. Funny...huh!

[Renee750il]

LOL! It is kind of funny. I think it's pretty much a package deal with some other language that's barred.

[stirder]

int he 80's I beleive, there was a male doberman named Warlock. he was a large dobie from German bloodlines. he was bred to a ton of females because of his titles and lines. back yard breeders claimed to have "warlock dobermans" because of the short lived popularity of this male. thus began the myth of the warlock doberman. dobies are not meant to be that large, it is unhealthy and you can bet your life that health took a back seat in the breeding of any oversized doberman, gsd, etc. and nearly all dobermans bred in the USA have some of Warlock somewhere in there ancestry, may not show up on pedigree but its back there somewhere. and by large in reference to warlock (the titled male, not the myth) he was well within the standard. most of the byb "warlocks" are over standard.

[bridey_01]

Well, I would say with the "warlock" i met, that all of the dobe had been bred out of him! He was definetly like a golden or lab temperament wise, goofy and over-friendly.

[BigDog2191]

I was reading the newspaper the other day and "Warlock Dobermans 4 Sale!" caught my eye...