Beautiful Pit on T.V.

[bubbatd]

news just now in Indy. Lovely white dog, in a cage with loving big eyes and sweet smile................only problem...he attacked a mail carrier (female today ) ....crashed through the screen door and ripped her arm in three places. They interviewed her with blood soaked shirt and pants. He's at the control center until his fate is decided . Once again, because of the owners (probably) this boy will be put down. It's real problem here . They are bought for the wrong reason and never trained properly. So sad !

[oriondw]

Its never the dogs fault always an owner? Interesting. A dog can do no wrong.


I love the hypocracy of pit bull owners/supporters.

[Purr]

AW! That's so sad!!! I can't believe that.....

[Purr]

Its never the dogs fault always an owner? Interesting. A dog can do no wrong.


I love the hypocracy of pit bull owners/supporters.


A dog relies on it's owners to teach it right from wrong. It's the owner's fault for not teaching their dog. And, yes, I'm a Pit Bull lover.

[Invisible]

That's really sad....although what if it was a genetic thing or some kind of medical problem. Is that a possiblity?

[oriondw]

A dog relies on it's owners to teach it right from wrong. It's the owner's fault for not teaching their dog. And, yes, I'm a Pit Bull lover.

Training goes only skin deep, the genetics go far deeper.

[juliefurry]

I am a pitbull owner. I do not agree with you whatsoever orion. It is not the dogs fault. He could not help if he was bred wrong, or mistreated, or teased by the mail carrier. Who knows how the attack occured. I seriously doubt the pitbull got up this morning and decided to attack the mail lady. It is up to the owners to properly train their pits (or any breed of dog) how to behave properly. Pitbulls are EXCEPTIONAL family dogs. Well known on being able to tolerate the rough and tumble play of kids. They are extremely people loyal (friendly). Who knows the circumstances on why this dog attacked. Maybe this dog had been mistreated, or the mail lady might have teased the dog. I have seen mail carriers tease dogs around here (I live close to Indy) so I know it happens.

[oriondw]

I am a pitbull owner. I do not agree with you whatsoever orion. It is not the dogs fault. He could not help if he was bred wrong, or mistreated, or teased by the mail carrier. Who knows how the attack occured. I seriously doubt the pitbull got up this morning and decided to attack the mail lady. It is up to the owners to properly train their pits (or any breed of dog) how to behave properly. Pitbulls are EXCEPTIONAL family dogs. Well known on being able to tolerate the rough and tumble play of kids. They are extremely people loyal (friendly). Who knows the circumstances on why this dog attacked. Maybe this dog had been mistreated, or the mail lady might have teased the dog. I have seen mail carriers tease dogs around here (I live close to Indy) so I know it happens.

Any pitbull that attacks a human is a poorly bred pit. In this case, you are probably right. I was refering more to the dog agression.

I do agree that pitbulls if properly bred make wonderful pets, but for their notoriety as a fighter. Majority of them being bred right now are NOT properly bred.

[Purr]

I agree with Julie 100%. Now, if he had been a cocker, nobody would've been bothered to put him on the news, but since he's a Pit Bull.....the story has to make the front page :mad:

[bubbatd]

According to the story, she had put the mail in the box on the front porch and was 1/2 way down the walk when he crashed through. I really doubt she teased him and it must have been a surprise as they carry mace.

[juliefurry]

I wasn't saying she did tease him, it was just a possibility. I have seen the mail carriers and garbage men being mean to the neighborhood dogs around here. I keep my pit mix inside when I know the mail person or the garbage men will be around. Sorry orion, I misunderstood you.

[Renee750il]

I've caught mail carriers, garbage pick-up, UPS, Fed-Ex, cops, ad nauseum teasing my dogs and other dogs far too many times to think it doesn't happen. I've seen them mace dogs who were sitting quietly and ignoring them, then walk away laughing while the dog howled in pain . . . reported a few too. Cost a few of them their jobs . . .

No excuse for things like that. Not only is it cruel, it creates a fear of uniforms in these dogs and that fear often manifests against someone wearing the same uniform who would never dream of tormenting an animal.

[bubbatd]

Renee, I agree. My Goldens were always free when we lived on 8 wooded acres in the country...... no problems with any delivery people. One day when the UPS truck came my female went nuts...scared and barking. I spoke to the driver, my regular and he loved my dogs, and said I couldn't understand her attitude ! He told me my last delivery was with a substitute driver who was afraid of dogs! ( I wasn't home ) Lord knows what he did to Copper !!! My regular then brought dog bones and let her get into the truck etc....and slowly she wasn't afraid of that big brown truck again. Poor Baby !!! I called UPS to just ask, but they weren't sure who was the driver. Doesn't take much to undo faith and so much patience to regain .

[siemens716]

Not sure where i stand on the pit bull issue, but it seems like that is the only breed in the news for the last few years (other than pressa canarios). conicindence or just the media picking on a breed it knows well?

[juliefurry]

Yeah sure the pits ARE in the news every single time they do something wrong. Sometimes it isn't even a pit that does the attack, or whatever happened, it is just assumed that it is a pit because it was mean. Some dogs are really familiar looking to the pitbull and people just assume that is what they are. Sometimes if a dog is just a certain color people will assume they are pits. It is just the media doing this to put more unwanted attention on a breed that is struggling so hard. I guess they feel the more cities, towns, and states the dog is banished from the better.

[mrose_s]

Its sad when that stuff happens.

what is mace?
Quote: Renee750il
I've seen them mace dogs who were sitting quietly and ignoring them

[juliefurry]

it's like pepper spray. I think it like temporarily blinds them and makes their eyes sting and water really bad. Plus it gets into their nose and they have trouble breathing.

[Amstaffer]

Its never the dogs fault always an owner? Interesting. A dog can do no wrong.

I love the hypocracy of pit bull owners/supporters.

Speaking of Hypocrisy, how come when it is a Akita mix who attacks a jogger it (according to your early post in another thread http://www.chazhound.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5803 ) is the jogger's fault? If you check out the link in my sig. you will find that pitbulls (even poorly bred ones) are consistently more stable and less likely to attack the most other dogs.

Every time these reports come in on pitbulls attacking there is evidence of abuse when the reporter cares to do some research. I challenge anyone to find stats that support the idea that pitbulls are more human aggressive than any other breed.

I have witnessed many dogs rescued from fighting rings that have turned out to be fine with people (Many do remain dog aggressive). So it is Nuture and training much more than Genetics. People don't seem to understand or want to understand that Pitbulls were never bred to be people aggressive.

The whole pitbull media frenzy is just hype meant to catch headlines. When Pitbulls do something positive reporters won't even mention the breed name. Also sometimes when the report comes in of a pitbull attack you see the pictures and it turns out to be a Lab or some other breed. Some reporters just think anything that attacks is a pitbull.

Not sure where i stand on the pit bull issue, but it seems like that is the only breed in the news for the last few years (other than pressa canarios). conicindence or just the media picking on a breed it knows well?

Siemens716 -- You are not alone a lot of dog lovers who are very rational have been influenced by the media hype. Please check out the link in my sig. It is not my website but it is a very informative website. The Media picks on Pitbulls just like it loves to put a black man on the news as the bad guy. We have tons of White Guys (FYI I am a White guy) stealing us blind or creating unsafe work conditions** that result in death but the media doesn't cover that, they want to maintain the exciting dangerous black man Stereotype.

The Pitbull is no different. In dog bites the Pitbull is consistently in the bottom 1/4 and pass the Humane Society tempermant test over 80% of the time (higher than the beloved Golden Ret.) Please don't believe the hype and help educate others.

also your Ridgeback is very majestic looking :)

**White collar crime costs us more in money and lives every year than Street crime. (Shepard and Greene)

[Renee750il]

Not sure where i stand on the pit bull issue, but it seems like that is the only breed in the news for the last few years (other than pressa canarios). conicindence or just the media picking on a breed it knows well?

Siemens, I've seen stories about 'Pit Bulls' that showed a photo of the dog and the dog was far from being a Pit. If it bites, it's called a Pit. I hope it's ignorance on the part of the parties publishing the stories or furnishing the information, and not a purposeful misinformation aimed at sensationalism.

Like the Presa Canario story in San Francisco: those dogs were cross bred with Presas and raised and trained to be vicious, but did the press continue reporting those facts once the story had taken hold? No! Suddenly the dogs became pure Presa Canarios - it made it sound like it was a problem that could be solved by getting rid of a certain breed of dog - instead of what it truly is, a problem that was caused by a certain "breed" of human.

Stories don't get aired or read anymore unless they carry some emotional punch - and we've been conditioned to cringe at the thought of a Pit, or a German Shepherd (they are used to catch bad guys, so they must be dangerous, right? :rolleyes: ), or a Rottweiler or something that sounds big and exotic - and dangerous, so those stories get lots of attention.

When was the last time you heard a series of unrelated stories about people dying in hospitals because they've contracted a deadly staph infection while being treated? It happens, more than you'd like to think, but you aren't going to hear about it. How many times does a domestic violence story that results in a death get hashed out for days or weeks on the national media? It happens somewhere virtually everyday, but it's not a real life "Cujo" story.

It's all a matter of manipulating the public . . .

[bridey_01]

Genetics, ha. Pit bulls were actually purposfully bred to be people FRIENDLY. This was a bit of an advantage to the person who had the task of seperating dogs in the pit.
Any dog can be aggressive, any dog can bite. No matter what the breed, it is ALWAYS the humans fault. If the dog has gotten to the stage that it is biting and showing obvious signs of aggression (obviously through a lack of socialisation and knowledge on the owners part) then the owner should **** well keep him away from the postal lady. And don't tell me that it's because he was a pit bull, and that breed is "unstable". Pit bulls are wonderful creatures with great loyalty and intelligence. I've trained so many beautiful pits that were subjected to such awful prejudice.

[casablanca1]

I have a mixed reaction to the pit bull thing. While I don't believe that pit bulls, etc. are evil monster dogs, I find ridiculous the constant statements that they're no different than any other dog, that all breeds have bad individuals so why pick on the pit? It's obvious that the size, weight and temperment (bulldog determination, steadiness, etc.) of an AmStaff, APBT, American Bulldog, etc., make them much more dangerous than a Cocker Spaniel (for example) when an individual is bad. Having seen an American Bulldog in a murderous attack, I think these fighting dog breeds are much more dangerous than even a similarly sized dog such as GSD or a Lab or Dobe. Their sheer bulk makes them nearly impossible to stop.

Re: the breed ID thing, I am amazed at the laziness of reporters and the deceit of pit bull advocates in equal measure. For every 'pit bull' attack where the reporter apparently took the word of the nearest cop for the dog's breed, there's an animal shelter claiming that they have zero pits but plenty of lab mixes.

[Amstaffer]

It simply boils down to this indisputable example and fact.

If Pitbulls are killers, unstable or purely dangerous etc.... then why is it that you can go to countless dog shows where there are 50 male (intact) pitbull or Amstaffs in a small area where small dogs, small children, rude strangers and other "Triggers" for aggression are present but yet these "Genetic Killing machines" don't attack, don't bite, hardly ever growl. If it was their Genetic destiny to kill you could not have dogs shows for this breed. The answer to why you can is simple, the owners of these dogs care for their dogs. Well raise dogs that have been treat with compassion not cruelty.

If you can read this website
www.furryfriendsfoundation.com/Truth03/Truth03.htm

And still think pitbulls are more dangerous than others I would love to read your evidence or logic.

Saying a dog is more dangerous because of there build is not fair. There are alot of dogs that are as bulky as the pitbull or even more so. Examples....St. Bernards, Mastiffs, Bullmastiffs, Boxers, Newfoundlands, Some Labs (very popular trend with some people), and these are just to name a few.

Heck I was at the dog park and I saw a Dalmantion attack another dog and it was a bulky, steadfast, focused, determined and crazy as any dog I had ever seen (except the bulky part). And I have been around a lot of bully breeds! With people this breed is better than most.

[oriondw]

Speaking of Hypocrisy, how come when it is a Akita mix who attacks a jogger it (according to your early post in another thread http://www.chazhound.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5803 ) is the jogger's fault? If you check out the link in my sig. you will find that pitbulls (even poorly bred ones) are consistently more stable and less likely to attack the most other dogs.


If only you would have finished reading both threads before you replied...

[casablanca1]

Saying a dog is more dangerous because of there build is not fair. There are alot of dogs that are as bulky as the pitbull or even more so. Examples....St. Bernards, Mastiffs, Bullmastiffs, Boxers, Newfoundlands, Some Labs (very popular trend with some people), and these are just to name a few. Heck I was at the dog park and I saw a Dalmantion attack another dog and it was a bulky, steadfast, focused, determined and crazy as any dog I had ever seen (except the bulky part). And I have been around a lot of bully breeds! With people this breed is better than most.

I didn't say they were more dangerous BECAUSE of their build, I said there are a number of factors that make a bad dog from a fighting breed more dangerous than a bad dog from a herding or working breed, and one of them was sheer bulk, those massive heads and chests and bone - which was a trait selected by generations of breeders precisely because it makes the dogs more formidable in the ring and harder to stop. This should be no more controversial than saying that a whippet's narrow body makes it less wind-resistant and therefore faster, or that a retriever's broad tail helps it swim better.

I don't think any breed is inherently dangerous, unstable, etc. I was just pointing out that the bad press these breeds have gotten isn't wholly irrational. Pit bull attacks are hot news because reporters are lazy and the press sensationalistic - and because pit bulls and their kin are the most likely breeds to be involved in attacks that cause serious injury and death. The stats on dog bites overall point to labs and cockers, but the stats on the worst (ie, most newsworthy) attacks show pits, pit mixes and other fighting breeds.

[siemens716]

I didn't say they were more dangerous BECAUSE of their build, I said there are a number of factors that make a bad dog from a fighting breed more dangerous than a bad dog from a herding or working breed, and one of them was sheer bulk, those massive heads and chests and bone - which was a trait selected by generations of breeders precisely because it makes the dogs more formidable in the ring and harder to stop. This should be no more controversial than saying that a whippet's narrow body makes it less wind-resistant and therefore faster, or that a retriever's broad tail helps it swim better.

This makes alot of sense.

[Athe]

I didn't say they were more dangerous BECAUSE of their build, I said there are a number of factors that make a bad dog from a fighting breed more dangerous than a bad dog from a herding or working breed, and one of them was sheer bulk, those massive heads and chests and bone - which was a trait selected by generations of breeders precisely because it makes the dogs more formidable in the ring and harder to stop. This should be no more controversial than saying that a whippet's narrow body makes it less wind-resistant and therefore faster, or that a retriever's broad tail helps it swim better.
casablanca1,
To better answer your question I will try to describe to you what make each breed group unique. To create a breed we have enhanced, deselected, selected different motor patterns to make them perfect for the job we asked of them. To take an orginal natural breed like a mongrel you would have a dog with a very low prey drive, all the motor patterns are present but not are enhanced. To create a specific breed group I would keep breeding for certain motor patterns and in a few generations they would be enhanced motor patterns. Motor patterns and behavior conformation go hand in hand.

For example a Droving breed or Terrier would have a motor pattern sequence that looks like this: Eye stalk, chase, grab-bite, kill-bite, dissect, consume all of the motor patterns would be enhanced to create a good rodent killer or cattle drover. A cattle drover may have a more prominent eye stalk and chase motor pattern and not as much of a kill bite motor pattern as a terrier. A sheep herding dog would have EYE STALK, CHASE, grab bite, consume. The sheep herding dog does not have kill bite or dissect motor patterns as it is undesired in a sheep herding dog. A Retriever would have EYE STALK, grab-bite, consume...once again you don't want a dog that is going to maul the gunned down duck or chase a duck before the hunter has a chance to shoot it. These motor patterns do not just come by chance or with training, a good working dog has been specifically bred to have these motor patterns.

So, as you can see man has created unique motor patterns for different groups of dogs. Some of these breeds due to their motor patterns can be more dangerous than a dog that doesnt have all the motor patterns intact. The motor patterns and predatory sequences are poorly understood by many people, and for someone to say that all dog breeds are created equal really havent done a lot of research.
Of course any dog can and will bite, but, there are some breeds due to their predatory sequence and enhanced drives which can be much more dangerous than other breed groups. If people tried to understand and explain instead of getting defensive about their breed the world would be a safer place.
BTW, I have met many horrid Bull breeds, Rotties etc. If I had to choose to trim the nails of an aggressive APBT or an aggressive Golden Retriever; I would take the Golden without using a muzzle a million times over before I would chose the APBT.

[Amstaffer]

but the stats on the worst (ie, most newsworthy) attacks show pits, pit mixes and other fighting breeds.

Do the stats really show this....or is it the media who has convinced us this is true? If your claim is true, I would still contend that these dogs that are involved in the more serious attacks are the result of poor owners and if you stick any other breed (almost any...not pugs lol) in their terrible conditions you would see MORE attacks of equal seriousness. This breed for some reason attracts people who wish to make themselves look tougher by having a "tough" dog.

I am not arguing that this breed is not physically capable of inflicting a lot of damage but every dog I named before and several others could do the same.

[Amstaffer]

casablanca1,
To better answer your question I will try to describe to you what make each breed group unique. To create a breed we have enhanced, deselected, selected different motor patterns to make them perfect for the job we asked of them. To take an orginal natural breed like a mongrel you would have a dog with a very low prey drive, all the motor patterns are present but not are enhanced. To create a specific breed group I would keep breeding for certain motor patterns and in a few generations they would be enhanced motor patterns. Motor patterns and behavior conformation go hand in hand.

For example a Droving breed or Terrier would have a motor pattern sequence that looks like this: Eye stalk, chase, grab-bite, kill-bite, dissect, consume all of the motor patterns would be enhanced to create a good rodent killer or cattle drover. A cattle drover may have a more prominent eye stalk and chase motor pattern and not as much of a kill bite motor pattern as a terrier. A sheep herding dog would have EYE STALK, CHASE, grab bite, consume. The sheep herding dog does not have kill bite or dissect motor patterns as it is undesired in a sheep herding dog. A Retriever would have EYE STALK, grab-bite, consume...once again you don't want a dog that is going to maul the gunned down duck or chase a duck before the hunter has a chance to shoot it. These motor patterns do not just come by chance or with training, a good working dog has been specifically bred to have these motor patterns.

So, as you can see man has created unique motor patterns for different groups of dogs. Some of these breeds due to their motor patterns can be more dangerous than a dog that doesnt have all the motor patterns intact. The motor patterns and predatory sequences are poorly understood by many people, and for someone to say that all dog breeds are created equal really havent done a lot of research.
Of course any dog can and will bite, but, there are some breeds due to their predatory sequence and enhanced drives which can be much more dangerous than other breed groups. If people tried to understand and explain instead of getting defensive about their breed the world would be a safer place.
BTW, I have met many horrid Bull breeds, Rotties etc. If I had to choose to trim the nails of an aggressive APBT or an aggressive Golden Retriever; I would take the Golden without using a muzzle a million times over before I would chose the APBT.

This all sound great but stats don't support it. I am defensive because of all the illogical attacks this breed suffers.

[gaddylovesdogs]

True story....

There was once a dog attack. Before the shelter received the attack dog, they were told that the dog was a pit bull. When the shelter finally received the dog, they confirmed that the dog was actually a samoyed....a completely different breed than the pit bull.

Compare this (Pit Bull)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/gaddymep9/pittie.jpg

With this (Samoyed)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/gaddymep9/sammie.jpg

The media isn't always reliable.

[casablanca1]

Do the stats really show this....or is it the media who has convinced us this is true?

The media? Please, the media never goes deeper into a story than "Pit Bull Bites Child!" The stuff about overall bites v. bites resulting in severe injury or death I got from a dog writer and checked it on the CDC website - the pdf about the breeds involved in fatal attacks from 1979-1978 is at http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/dogbreeds.pdf

If your claim is true, I would still contend that these dogs that are involved in the more serious attacks are the result of poor owners and if you stick any other breed (almost any...not pugs lol) in their terrible conditions you would see MORE attacks of equal seriousness. This breed for some reason attracts people who wish to make themselves look tougher by having a "tough" dog.

I agree that the big, powerful dogs attract fools and knaves. One of the problems I see with the defensive stonewalling by pit bull people is that their tactics - the dogs are great, you're just biased and hateful - shelter these same terrible owners. There seems to be a trend where people who have trouble with a bad individual of one of these breeds are treated with hostility and suspicion - are you sure that it was a pit bull who tore open your leg, or was it a pit bull mix? - while people who own one are welcomed virtually unexamined into the flock. "Bad owners" doesn't equal "people we don't know who live in a ghetto/trailer."

[Amstaffer]

The media? Please, the media never goes deeper into a story than "Pit Bull Bites Child!" The stuff about overall bites v. bites resulting in severe injury or death I got from a dog writer and checked it on the CDC website - the pdf about the breeds involved in fatal attacks from 1979-1978 is at http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/dogbreeds.pdf


Looks like a pretty good study except they use the media reports for half of their data....we all know how acurate that is.




One of the problems I see with the defensive stonewalling by pit bull people is that their tactics - the dogs are great, you're just biased and hateful - shelter these same terrible owners. There seems to be a trend where people who have trouble with a bad individual of one of these breeds are treated with hostility and suspicion - are you sure that it was a pit bull who tore open your leg, or was it a pit bull mix? - while people who own one are welcomed virtually unexamined into the flock. "Bad owners" doesn't equal "people we don't know who live in a ghetto/trailer."

I disagree that we (pitbull owners and lovers) shelter "bad owners" My whole point is THEY the owner is the villian. If you read that webpage I listed and is in my sig. it clearly states that with the abuse that this breed takes it is amazing they don't attack more often. If most other breeds were as popular with these psychos.

I am the first to call for the "head" of any dog (not pitbulls) who neglects or abuses his dogs. I believe dog ownership is a privledge (that can be revoked) not a right.

In the city of Milwaukee WI alone in 2003, 1300 pitbull dogs were found dead from neglect or abuse. The Huge tragedy here is what Humans are doing to pitbulls not what Pitbulls are doing to People. Way more people die every year from Bee bites that Dog attacks.

[casablanca1]

I disagree that we (pitbull owners and lovers) shelter "bad owners" My whole point is THEY the owner is the villian. If you read that webpage I listed and is in my sig. it clearly states that with the abuse that this breed takes it is amazing they don't attack more often. If most other breeds were as popular with these psychos. In the city of Milwaukee WI alone in 2003, 1300 pitbull dogs were found dead from neglect or abuse. The Huge tragedy here is what Humans are doing to pitbulls not what Pitbulls are doing to People..

The website is quite nice, and the vintage photos of bulldogs beautiful. I've liked pit bulls since college, when strays used to peacefully accompany us to class in the morning (it was an urban campus, so they were more dogs-about-town than wild strays). And I've been sympathetic to their troubles since
reading Vicki Hearne's 1990's book "Bandit: Dossier Of A Dangerous Dog," where she makes many of the same arguments. My reservations today stem from the pro-pit bull backlash by owners which I see as being as irrational and detrimental as the initial surge of anti-pit bull hysteria.

In the city of Milwaukee WI alone in 2003, 1300 pitbull dogs were found dead from neglect or abuse. The Huge tragedy here is what Humans are doing to pitbulls not what Pitbulls are doing to People..

Insofar as abuse/neglect of pit bulls directly affects the abused/neglected dog, and indirectly often affects innocent third parties (canine and human), I agree.

[Amstaffer]

My reservations today stem from the pro-pit bull backlash by owners which I see as being as irrational and detrimental as the initial surge of anti-pit bull hysteria.

.

Well I am not sure about this group? I have always thought myself as very logical and rational about this topic. If anyone tries to protect Pitbull owners who abuse, neglect or encourage aggression in their dogs is no friend of mine and I agree with you that this can be harmful to the breed and to people. I just see a LOT more of the anti-pit bull hysteria. The biggest drawback of the breed is the prejudice you have to face when you own and walk one.

[EliNHunter]

I wasn't saying she did tease him, it was just a possibility. I have seen the mail carriers and garbage men being mean to the neighborhood dogs around here. I keep my pit mix inside when I know the mail person or the garbage men will be around. Sorry orion, I misunderstood you.

You might have misunderstood orion since the post was pretty harsh sounding... :mad:

[Irish]

Interesting reading! Just my thoughts on the media: I remember a couple of summers ago, here in the U.S., the media started reporting on shark attacks. It was almost every week you'd be hearing about another human death or near death due to shark attack. The media was making it sound like some strange thing had occurred making the sharks attack humans like something out of a movie. THEN, I heard an expert who explained that there were no more shark attacks this particular summer then any other, in fact, the attacks were actually down. It was just that the media had focused in on sharks that summer. They certainly can manipulate us, I take everything they say with a grain of salt.

[EliNHunter]

Interesting reading! Just my thoughts on the media: I remember a couple of summers ago, here in the U.S., the media started reporting on shark attacks. It was almost every week you'd be hearing about another human death or near death due to shark attack. The media was making it sound like some strange thing had occurred making the sharks attack humans like something out of a movie. THEN, I heard an expert who explained that there were no more shark attacks this particular summer then any other, in fact, the attacks were actually down. It was just that the media had focused in on sharks that summer. They certainly can manipulate us, I take everything they say with a grain of salt.

That's for sure! The media will just latch on to any ~wave~ of news they can and make it seem bigger than it is just to be newsworthy. My Mom and I were in the Caribbean a few years back when all the shark attack stories were the rage with the media. We went to a restaurant on the water that was known for "ringing the dinner bell" for the sharks and they would swim up and the water was literally BOILING with huge sharks of all shapes and sizes! There was a USA Today reporter there to cover a story on how people felt about that. She ended up having dinner with us -- it was pretty cool and she was very nice (just doing her job). I got quoted in USA Today! I stated that I didn't agree with it and we just wanted a nice meal. The sharks weren't what drew us there. And especially with so many swimming beaches right there on the premises, it wasn't very smart to be doing that. That if people want to see sharks, go to an aquarium and let nature take its course. In other words, don't antagonize the situation...

[Irish]

Wow Elinhunter, that must've been some sight to see! Thats pretty cool being quoted too!

[EliNHunter]

Wow Elinhunter, that must've been some sight to see! Thats pretty cool being quoted too!

Well, I do have to admit it was pretty, let's say, surreal. To see all those sharks. They ring the dinner bell and bring them into a bay then throw chum (or whatever they feed them) out to them. I am so totally against that, though. It's kind of like DON'T FEED THE DEER in the National Parks so the wild animals don't rely on humans!

[Amstaffer]

OMG Bill O'Rielly really did a bang up job at slandering the pitbull, what an idiot he is. He gets on and misquotes stats and emotionalize everything.

He said if he saw a pit bull he would run and climb a tree.....I used to like him :mad:

[bubbatd]

That was an interesting dinner with eliN and the USA gal !!!! Great meal too !!!! ( whoops....shark!)

[juliefurry]

Yes,Elin, I did misunderstand Orion. I also apologized for it as well. Does anyone know any more about this pitbull attack? The reason I ask is because my boy Mack came from a breeder in Indy. They bred white pitbulls with blue eyes. I know there are probably a lot of white blue eyed pits down there but I was just wondering. Was the dog just a family pet? I tried watching the news last night but I couldn't find anything about it. I live pretty close to Indy, and I'm hoping this dog wasn't from my Mack's breeder. It's doubtful, but also possible at the same time.

[Amstaffer]

Blue eyed pitbulls? Sounds like some experimenting to me. "Pitbulls" come in all sizes and shapes but that is a new one to me. Thats the bad thing about the term Pitbull....Its not even a "breed" any more. All these back yard breeders have been breeding for size, huge heads....etc. Now Blue eyes....hmmmm

[bogolove]

That's for sure! The media will just latch on to any ~wave~ of news they can and make it seem bigger than it is just to be newsworthy. My Mom and I were in the Caribbean a few years back when all the shark attack stories were the rage with the media. We went to a restaurant on the water that was known for "ringing the dinner bell" for the sharks and they would swim up and the water was literally BOILING with huge sharks of all shapes and sizes! There was a USA Today reporter there to cover a story on how people felt about that. She ended up having dinner with us -- it was pretty cool and she was very nice (just doing her job). I got quoted in USA Today! I stated that I didn't agree with it and we just wanted a nice meal. The sharks weren't what drew us there. And especially with so many swimming beaches right there on the premises, it wasn't very smart to be doing that. That if people want to see sharks, go to an aquarium and let nature take its course. In other words, don't antagonize the situation...


Not to get too off topic here, but was that in the Bahamas? I have been to that place if it was.

[EliNHunter]

Not to get too off topic here, but was that in the Bahamas? I have been to that place if it was.

Yes, it was!

[showpug]

You know the whole pitbull issue is just really sad and I hate hearing it :( Over the 5 years that I worked in the vet clinic we saw pitbulls everyday. I would put them at the top of my list for the most loving and happy dogs we saw. I remember my favorite one that would come in and immediatley roll over for a belly rub. He never flintched (sp) through vaccines or blood draws and he lived in a kid filled family. He was such a good boy and always behaved himself. There was also Pheobe who we saved from Parvo as a puppy...she grew into a healthy and extremeley loving adult dog. It was always so sad to see her in the waiting room as she would try to visit everyone in there. When the people who were petting her would ask the owner what breed she was and he would say pitbull they would shy away and not want to pet her anymore. That is where I would jump in and help the owner by saying "this is Pheobe and she's one of our best and friendliest patients!" I loved that pooch and hated to see people discriminate. These dogs came from loving families. We did on occasion see the "tough" guy bring their pits in with chains around their necks that you would buy at a hardware store so the dog would look tough. They were always named Tank, Tyson, or Jaws...you get the picture. Even their pits were nice and gentle with us on almost every occasion. Now let me tell you about all the labs, goldens, american eskimos, doxies, poodles, chi's...the list goes on with the breeds that would act up and try to bite us. The one breed that we could always expect a bite from no matter what was the American Eskimo...don't know why, but they were very hard to work with. :)

[Rose's Gal]

My mom was telling me more info about that attack. I don't know the fate of the dog, but I know more about the situation.

The Mail Lady said that the reason the dog went after her was because it was just defending its territory. She said that Mail people have to be very careful because when they go up to a house, they can suprise dogs, and a suprised dogs first instinct is to defend its territory (a.k.a. Bite). She said that the bite was her fault because she failed to "anounce" that she was there, so the dog became defensive. The dog chased after her while the whole intire family was outside trying to stop it. It went to bite her face, but she threw her arm up, so it bit her arm instead. The whole family was outside trying to get it, and they finally got it off of her. The Mail Lady doesn't want the dog destroyed and didn't pin any of it on the dog being a Pit Bull.
They also interviewed another Mail dude and he said that he was never attacked by a dog because he makes sure he makes lots of noise when he comes to diliver the mail, so the dogs know he is there. He said the only animal he was attacked by was a cat, and he said, "You try getting one of those things off of you!" lol :p

[gapeach]

I'm glad to hear the lady feels that way. I hope everything works out.

[Amstaffer]

Over the 5 years that I worked in the vet clinic we saw pitbulls everyday. I would put them at the top of my list for the most loving and happy dogs we saw.

Yep....My two Amstaffs are the only dogs I have ever had who actually like to see the Vet. Even after they go through shoots, surgery and other painful procedures, they still love that Vet and can't wait to see him.

[oriondw]

I dont know, i never got the mail men agression thing. Are these dogs just that thick headed? I mean I have a dog that is extremely territorial and is probably 100 times more protective then most breeds but it would never attack a mailmen or a gardener when they are by our house doing their jobs

Do these dogs not learn? They see the person everyday without them causing any harm, why would they attack?

[gapeach]

I think just in general any dog who attacks someone like this is just not socialized with people and usually just a thrown in the yard or tied up dog.

[Amstaffer]

Yeah they learn like every breed faster than some, slower that others. To me from what Rose's Gal said it sounds to me like the dog learned that it was HIS area and not the family's. The dog seems to be the dominant being in that family.

I just can't get over the attack part period, I have three pitbulls on my block besides my 2 and they all love the Mail man (he carries cookies). My mail man says the only dog on his route that he worries about is a Shar-Pei.

Why Mail men...Good question, maybe it is because they get so close to the personal area of the family. I know when I lived in the country it was the gas man who often had to look right in your back yard. The poor gas man would tell me all kinds of stories about mean dogs.

[gapeach]

My mama's meter man carried a pair of binoculars with him, just for that reason.

[juliefurry]

My dog will bark but he wouldn't (atleast I don't think he would) attack. He's met our mail lady a few times and he didn't seem to have any problems with her. He's never over friendly with her (he's never really over friendly with people that don't live in the house). I don't think my dog would ever attack unless we were being threatened in some way.

[bubbatd]

I haven't read any more up dates.....The dog didn't have blue eyes, but was a lovely looking pitt.

[Rose's Gal]

Another reason dogs are aggresive to delivery men and mail men and all of that is because normally, they will bark the whole time the dude is at the house, and then the dude goes away. They think, "Hey, I acted all mean and scary and he went away! Let's try it again!"

[bogolove]

I dont know, i never got the mail men agression thing. Are these dogs just that thick headed? I mean I have a dog that is extremely territorial and is probably 100 times more protective then most breeds but it would never attack a mailmen or a gardener when they are by our house doing their jobs

Do these dogs not learn? They see the person everyday without them causing any harm, why would they attack?

This reminds me of the other day I was eating lunch across the street from my work and I could see outside. A family was outside eating ice cream at Ben and Jerry's and they had their rottie tied to the tree right beside them. TONS of people walked by and would pat the dog and he sat there happy as could be. (I had a perfect view out the window and I like to people watch), I watched this for like 25 minutes, the dog happy as can be. Then the mailman walked by and I promise when he walked by that dog, the dog did a snap at his bottom, but I don't think the mailman noticed. It looked almost like the dog was laughing about it after it happened. He didn't touch him, he and he wasn't mean to anyone at all, I guess he just wasn't fond of the mailman. It must be some sort of joke in the doggy world. :eek:

[oriondw]

Another reason dogs are aggresive to delivery men and mail men and all of that is because normally, they will bark the whole time the dude is at the house, and then the dude goes away. They think, "Hey, I acted all mean and scary and he went away! Let's try it again!"


Still dont get it. My dog barked at them few times, then I simply told him to calm down and he hasnt cared about those people at all.

Ah well, I guess it depends on how much time you put into the dog.

[casablanca1]

Well I am not sure about this group? I have always thought myself as very logical and rational about this topic. If anyone tries to protect Pitbull owners who abuse, neglect or encourage aggression in their dogs is no friend of mine and I agree with you that this can be harmful to the breed and to people. I just see a LOT more of the anti-pit bull hysteria. The biggest drawback of the breed is the prejudice you have to face when you own and walk one.

Cheered by the fact that although we still disagree, we haven't resorted to witchiness. Thanks for the civilized argument.

[casablanca1]

She said that the bite was her fault because she failed to "anounce" that she was there, so the dog became defensive. The dog chased after her while the whole intire family was outside trying to stop it. It went to bite her face, but she threw her arm up, so it bit her arm instead. The whole family was outside trying to get it, and they finally got it off of her. The Mail Lady doesn't want the dog destroyed and didn't pin any of it on the dog being a Pit Bull.

Here's hoping no one else ever surprises the dog. Honestly, this mailman sounds like one stupid woman. Any dog will snap if surprised, but actually biting down, going for the face and requiring a crowd to pry it off human flesh are three bad signs.

[Amstaffer]

Ah well, I guess it depends on how much time you put into the dog.

We usually disagree but you are right on there, I agree totally with your comment. If these people would spend more quality time with their dogs this would not happen.

actually biting down, going for the face and requiring a crowd to pry it off human flesh are three bad signs.

We agree on more things than you think, I agree this dog has issues and should be rehomed or the family should be forced to get training on how to handle their dog. Where I think we will most likely differ is the cause of the problem. If the dog had been raised correctly this would never of happen regardless of what the mail person would have done.

[casablanca1]

We agree on more things than you think, I agree this dog has issues and should be rehomed or the family should be forced to get training on how to handle their dog. Where I think we will most likely differ is the cause of the problem. If the dog had been raised correctly this would never of happen regardless of what the mail person would have done.

Actually, we agree that the owners are one cause. Where we disagree is likely to be the solution, since I think rehoming the dog is not the answer. Although it's tragic that the owners created this mess, I don't think biting dogs neccessarily deserves a new start. Either enforce some of the dangerous dog laws that exist - owners required to contain and muzzle biters - or have the dog killed at the owner's expense.

[showpug]

I agree that nature and nurture both have their place. I do however think that some dogs carry bad genetic personality traits that lead them to be more suceptible to this kind of behavior...especially if placed in the wrong hands. I will explain why I think this way. My husband and I purchased an 8 week old puppy years ago from a very nice man who's dog got pregnant accidentally (actually lack of owner responsibility, but that is another story :confused: ) The mother of the pups was a Rottweiler and seemed to have a very nice temperament on the other hand, the father was an Aus. Shep. whom we never got to meet. When we met the puppies they seemed happy, active, and aloof so we picked the one out that we wanted and went on our way. Right off the bat in the car ride home I noticed that this pup was different then any other I had experienced. When taken out of her comfort zone she became very fearful...I was not to surprised as I expected a pup's first time away from mom and the litter to be somewhat traumatic. In the days to come she was VERY fearful and if we went to touch or pick her up she would scream!!! I did not know what to do, this was so strange to me. Eventually that behavior subsided with us, but if she ever met strangers she would continue on with this act of drama and extreme fearfullness. We got her to puppy classes and everyday she came to work with me at the vet clinic and met new people. I had strangers give her treats and attention. In puppy school we played pass the puppy where she could meet all kinds of different people and get a treat from them. We tried everything and she NEVER got better. She was always afraid and as she aged it turned into fear aggression. This was so hard to cope with after never having a fearful dog around. I truly believe that there was nothing that could have changed her. I believe that she was born that way and I can't imagine how she would have turned out if we did not do all the socializing that we did :eek: I am not saying the pitbull above was fearful, in fact, seems opposite, but I am saying that certain dogs are genetically pre-disposed to temperament problems. I know what some of you are thinking...what happened to my dog as a small puppy? Was she socialized at a very young age. After meeting and seeing her mother and the pups and meeting the owner, I truly believe that this dog was just born this way. Unfortunatley we lost her just before her second birthday to fear/stress induced gastric torsion "bloat" poor baby, but at least her last day was spent playing fetch at the park with her ball...her favorite :(

[juliefurry]

That's so sad Showpug. I agree that some dogs may just be pre-disposed to certain temperment problems. My dog shows a little fear to strangers, first he is really barky (not growly though) then he acts like he is abused or something and shies away for awhile. After like half an hour or so then he'll come around and love you. We put him in obedience classes and they just started, and I've been getting him out around new people a lot more.

[bubbatd]

The family where we boarded out horses years ago had a rescued Chow...he would go crazy when anyone showed up dressed in white......the family couldn't understand it, but when I asked questions I learned he had belonged to an elderly lady who suddenly died. People in white coats carried her away .... connection???

[bubbatd]

Showdog.....what the breeders put into a dog far surpasses the past breeding. Back years ago when I read in my "
Puppy Bible " that if I didn't spend 15 min a day with each puppy at a a certain age I could consider myself a BAD BREEDER......yes it was high lighted. !!! Needless to say, each pup got that individual attention !! And it paid off for wonderfully adjusted pups. With a litter of 8 to 12 it meant alot of time for me, but the results for the pups were well worth it !

[siemens716]

Personal Story Segment
Pit bulls under attack
Guests: Actress Linda Blair & Lisa Lange, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals
A 12-year old San Francisco boy was recently mauled to death by his pit bull, a breed known for attacking people. The Factor was joined by actress and animal rights activist Linda Blair, herself the owner of a pit bull. "A pit bull followed me home," Blair recounted, "and I learned his personality was far different than portrayed in the press. I have done a lot of research about the breed and they were never meant to be human aggressors." But Lisa Lange of PETA disputed the notion that pit bulls are no different than other dogs. "Pit bulls were bred to fight and kill other animals for human sport, and you have a lot of people who use pit bulls as macho symbols. Many of them live on chains, many are abused, and are aggressive as a result." The Factor pointed out there are statistics showing "they are twice as likely as other dogs to hurt people. You've got to be very careful with any stray dog, but particularly with that breed."


The story was on Bill O'Reilly yesterday.

[Amstaffer]

Personal Story Segment
Pit bulls under attack
Guests: Actress Linda Blair & Lisa Lange, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals
A 12-year old San Francisco boy was recently mauled to death by his pit bull, a breed known for attacking people. The Factor was joined by actress and animal rights activist Linda Blair, herself the owner of a pit bull. "A pit bull followed me home," Blair recounted, "and I learned his personality was far different than portrayed in the press. I have done a lot of research about the breed and they were never meant to be human aggressors." But Lisa Lange of PETA disputed the notion that pit bulls are no different than other dogs. "Pit bulls were bred to fight and kill other animals for human sport, and you have a lot of people who use pit bulls as macho symbols. Many of them live on chains, many are abused, and are aggressive as a result." The Factor pointed out there are statistics showing "they are twice as likely as other dogs to hurt people. You've got to be very careful with any stray dog, but particularly with that breed."


The story was on Bill O'Reilly yesterday.

O'Reilly has been a Pitbull hater for years. He miss quoted stats and invented others, I was watching the show.There is not stat anywhere that says pitbulls are twice as likely to harm people....that is just a flat out lie. Makes you wonder what else he is lying about? He also said if he saw a pitbull he would run up a tree. Go place for him IMHO.

[showpug]

BUBBATD....I totally agree with the breeder issue, but I also believe that there are genetic traits in personality that make dogs who they are. There are some dogs that are completley broken and destroyed by abuse, while others continue to love humans no matter how babdly they are treated. Temperament is somewhat bred-in to dogs. That is what makes a pug so different than a terrier etc. They have different driving traits that make them capable of being who they are. If a pug had the personality and breeding of a terrier then it would not be a pug now would it?? I truly agree that it IS the breeders responsibility to select not only a genetically and conformationally sound pair for breeding, but they MUST have stable temperaments that represeant their breed as well. When you breed a litter, you breed for the WHOLE dog with every aspect in mind. As a breeder you also dedicate the whole rearing of the litter to making sure that they are socialized and handled a ton and raised as part of the family. I totally get that, but it would be silly to assume that nurture is the only part that plays a role in the outcome of a dogs personality and temperament and completely disregard the nature factor :)

[bubbatd]

I agree that each breed is different.

[Amstaffer]

I totally get that, but it would be silly to assume that nurture is the only part that plays a role in the outcome of a dogs personality and temperament and completely disregard the nature factor :)

Nuture is not the only thing that matter but I feel that it is the biggest by far. I have seen pitbulls rescued from fighting rings and breeding ops that become great pets. Nature does have an impact though

[showpug]

Nuture is not the only thing that matter but I feel that it is the biggest by far. I have seen pitbulls rescued from fighting rings and breeding ops that become great pets. Nature does have an impact though


Totally agree :) I do believe that how a pup is handled from day one plays the largest role in its outcome!! I just hate to deny nature as I feel like it has it's place and need for consideration ;)

[luvmydogs]

i have an (abused and rescued) Am.Staff mix..i used to be afraid of pitbull, but when i saw him, i fell in love. i have 2 children..10,6 and 2(!!!) and he loves everyone in this family. hes the sweetest dog ive ever seen. he is so thankful that we rescused him. despite his cigarette burns, and no bottom canines (thanks to the previous owner, who tried to make him viscious!!!) i dont think he would ever harm anyone. ever. but then i have a (also rescued) Min. Pin, and he would rip a strangers arm out...so its not the breed....it's the owners!!!!!!

[showpug]

Funny you say that it is not the breed...I have met SO MANY incredible loving pitbulls that I have fallen in love with. On the other hand I have met SO MANY min pins that I could have lived without :D I do agree that owners will make or break their dogs and the responsibility is in their hands. :) I hope you are not getting the wrong impression about me, I love pitbulls and if you read some of my other posts you will see that I am always sticking up for them....I am also 100% AGAINST breed banns. I just like to discuss nature vs. nurture and I think they both have their impact on the outcome of a dog :)

[luvmydogs]

oh no. i totally understand, i was one of those people who wanted pitbulls dead, i am ashamed to say. it was just the impression the media gave me...everyone has their own opinions, but now that i own (part-of) one i see it with different eyes ;) of course i think its also possible that the genetics play a role in it too....

[siemens716]

O'Reilly has been a Pitbull hater for years. He miss quoted stats and invented others, I was watching the show.There is not stat anywhere that says pitbulls are twice as likely to harm people....that is just a flat out lie. Makes you wonder what else he is lying about? He also said if he saw a pitbull he would run up a tree. Go place for him IMHO.

I've never know O'Reilly to lie about anything. And honestly I am scared of pit bulls also. I would never let my children around them.

[Amstaffer]

I've never know O'Reilly to lie about anything. And honestly I am scared of pit bulls also. I would never let my children around them.

Well you might not believe me if you are big Factor fan but I can tell you distorted and flat out lie about the CDC findings and other stats quoted on his show.

Being a fan of Ridgebacks, if they ever out law pitbulls I think your breed would be one of the next to be exploited by the Idiots who exploit pitbulls now. It would then be your breed on the Factor.

Please check out the following website and see if you still feel the way you do.
www.furryfriendsfoundation.com/Truth03/Truth03.htm

[showpug]

Siemens...I respect your feelings and thoughts, but I am surprised you would trust a ridgeback around children and not a pit :confused: That is strange to me???? I am not saying ridgebacks are bad by any means, but they need an experienced owner and like pits, if they fall into the wrong hands it can mean trouble :eek:

[oriondw]

Siemens...I respect your feelings and thoughts, but I am surprised you would trust a ridgeback around children and not a pit :confused: That is strange to me???? I am not saying ridgebacks are bad by any means, but they need an experienced owner and like pits, if they fall into the wrong hands it can mean trouble :eek:


As far as I know, ridgebacks have not been phazed by such breeding practices as pit bulls. I, personally, would not let my child around pit bull as well simply for the fact that its like playing a Russian roullete. You dont know the history of the animal... It might be nice, it might not.

[Rose's Gal]

If I had childern, I wouldn't let them around any dog if I didn't know about it. A Labrador can be dangerous to ya know. That is one of the problems of Breed bans...it lets people think the "bad" breeds are outlawed, so all of the other breeds and dogs individually must love kids.

[Amstaffer]

As far as I know, ridgebacks have not been phazed by such breeding practices as pit bulls. I, personally, would not let my child around pit bull as well simply for the fact that its like playing a Russian roullete. You dont know the history of the animal... It might be nice, it might not.

A pitbull is no more Russian Roullette than anyother breed. It is not safe to leave a small child alone with any dog.

Oriondw-- From what you have said about your breed and what I have read about them since you mention them to me....They seem a lot more human aggressive than Pitbulls. And at 120+ lbs just as, (if not more) dangerous.

What I don't think many people realize is that if the Pitbull is outlawed people will find another breed to exploit and abuse. Any big tough dog would be slipped into the pitbull spot and maulings would continue. Some people feel the need to have the meanest and toughest dog available. If these crazy people who abuse these dogs aren't stopped they would turn Clumber Spaniel into the next killer. In Milwaukee WI, I see guys breeding Rotts and Bull Mastiffs to get what they think is a bigger tougher dog than the pitbull.

There is a reason why you never heard of Pitbull attacks before the crack empedimic of the 80s. Back then it was Dobs or GSD etc....

[oriondw]

A pitbull is no more Russian Roullette than anyother breed. It is not safe to leave a small child alone with any dog.

Oriondw-- From what you have said about your breed and what I have read about them since you mention them to me....They seem a lot more human aggressive than Pitbulls. And at 120+ lbs just as, (if not more) dangerous.

What I don't think many people realize is that if the Pitbull is outlawed people will find another breed to exploit and abuse. Any big tough dog would be slipped into the pitbull spot and maulings would continue. Some people feel the need to have the meanest and toughest dog available. If these crazy people who abuse these dogs aren't stopped they would turn Clumber Spaniel into the next killer. In Milwaukee WI, I see guys breeding Rotts and Bull Mastiffs to get what they think is a bigger tougher dog than the pitbull.

There is a reason why you never heard of Pitbull attacks before the crack empedimic of the 80s. Back then it was Dobs or GSD etc....

So whats your point?

Also, I didnt mean leaving the child alone with the dog, but just meeting a random dog on the street.

[Amstaffer]

So whats your point?

Also, I didnt mean leaving the child alone with the dog, but just meeting a random dog on the street.

What my point is that its not the dog breed but the dog owner.

[siemens716]

Well you might not believe me if you are big Factor fan but I can tell you distorted and flat out lie about the CDC findings and other stats quoted on his show.

Being a fan of Ridgebacks, if they ever out law pitbulls I think your breed would be one of the next to be exploited by the Idiots who exploit pitbulls now. It would then be your breed on the Factor.

Please check out the following website and see if you still feel the way you do.
www.furryfriendsfoundation.com/Truth03/Truth03.htm

I was hoping that was a link to a study disproving what was on TV. A historical of the breed is meaningless. The most important thing is what is the breed like now. And now it is a dangerous breed. Yes unfortunately it happened, and yes previously it was the doberman that was stereotyped but also based in some truth on facts. Now dobbies are very passive, too much so. Perhaps in time pit bulls will be bread to lack aggression, but until that happens I stand by what I said.

As for Ridgebacks being aggresive, they are no more aggresive toward children than other working breeds. The discussion here is that pit bulls are above average in aggression. One reason there are no stories about Ridgebacks or Giant Schnauzers mauling and killing 12 year old children who were members of the dogs family, is because it doesn't happen. That is also a reason why both my breeds are approved by all home owners insurance companies, and pit bulls are not.

[juliefurry]

Pits are not dangerous if raised and treated properly! I have a pit mix and he is the worlds most friendliest dog I have ever met. You can make ANY dog mean just the same as you can also make ANY dog nice. It all has to do with how the dog is treated as a puppy and how it was bred. Pits have been bred to not be people aggressive because when they are fighting they have to know better than to not attack a human. The reason that you never hear of a Ridgeback mauling a child is because they are not a familiar breed! People don't breed them haphazardly like they do pits and other bully breeds! I bet if Ridgebacks became as popular as pits and other bully breeds and backyard breeders got ahold of Ridgebacks and started breeding them there would be just as many problems. It's funny because I had no trouble getting home owners insurance even telling the company straight off we had a pit mix. Our rates did not increase and we weren't turned down. My pitbull mix has NEVER shown ANY aggression towards my 1 year old daughter or my 5 year old and 12 year old stepson. Regardless I wouldn't leave ANY of the children alone with ANY dog (I don't care if it's a golden retriever). Most pitbull attacks aren't really even caused by pits anyways, they are caused by dogs that look similar to a pit!

[oriondw]

What my point is that its not the dog breed but the dog owner.

But you just said that my dog is much more agressive and dangerous?

Obviously my dog is stronger and bigger then any pitbull, it comes with his job.


My dog also has nerves of steel and would not "snap", ever. He also knows very well on how to distinguish between threats, and children just running around are not threats. So does majority of all (99%) Caucasians, and once again it comes with the breed.

[luvmydogs]

most people don't even know the difference between pitts and "look-alikes"
Breed misidentification is a scary thing in a time breed specific legislation is growing.... Pit Bull dogs are often blamed for dog attacks that may very well have been caused by an another breed. CAN U FIND THE REAL AMERICAN PITBULL?????
click here:
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html

[Amstaffer]

I was hoping that was a link to a study disproving what was on TV. A historical of the breed is meaningless. .

If you read the whole website and use some of the links you will see some stats. Just the pictures are a history of the breed. Example Pitbulls pass the humane society's tempermant test 80% of the time 77% is average for most breeds. This is amazing considering that pitbulls are more abused than anyother breed!


As for Ridgebacks being aggresive, they are no more aggresive toward children than other working breeds. .
There is no evidence to say otherwise with pitbulls. Actually the Staffordshire Bully Terrier in England is nicknamed the "Nanny Dog"

One reason there are no stories about Ridgebacks or Giant Schnauzers mauling and killing 12 year old children who were members of the dogs family, is because it doesn't happen. That is also a reason why both my breeds are approved by all home owners insurance companies, and pit bulls are not.

A second reason is there are WAY more pitbulls out there than Ridgebacks and G. Schnauzers! Don't believe the AKC numbers most backyard pitbull breeders (which there are many) don't even know what the AKC is.

A Third reason is if a Ridgeback was to maul someone (And I have seen some aggressive Ridgebacks) the stupid media would report it as a pitbull.

A Fourth reason many of the people who own Ridgebacks and G. Sch. are high socio-economic back ground and more educated and compassionate. Some of the people who are attracted to the Pitbull are down right evil.

If someone applied the same logic to people that they did pitbulls they would be racist and we would have the return of Apartheid or worse!

siemens716-- Answer me one easy question please....If Pitbulls are so unstable and are genetic killers, how come every year there are thousands of dogs shows in the USA and other countries that have 50+ intact Pitbulls, AmStaffs, American Bulldogs etc.... males together at Dog Shows with Children running around, Small Snappy Dogs, Rude Prodding Stangers and other "Triggers" for aggression and yet no one ever gets bit, no dog fights, heck I never seen one show his teeth! I did see a Fox Terrier snap at an Amstaff one time and the Staff put his ears back and head down....No attack.

The point I am trying very hard to make here is that it is the owners who raise unstable dogs....IT could be any dog breed. We need to enforce laws against abuse and maybe make it harder to own a dog (I don't think it should be a right) so some people don't get dogs in the first place. If we don't enforce the laws...Yesterday's Dob, Today's Pitbull could be tomorrow's Ridgeback :(

[Amstaffer]

But you just said that my dog is much more agressive and dangerous?

Obviously my dog is stronger and bigger then any pitbull, it comes with his job.


My dog also has nerves of steel and would not "snap", ever. He also knows very well on how to distinguish between threats, and children just running around are not threats. So does majority of all (99%) Caucasians, and once again it comes with the breed.


Read the post right above you.....If the Causcasian became as popular as the Pitbull you would see at least as many problems because as you have eluded to they are bred for aggression towards humans...pitbulls are not.

Bigger...yes Stronger? Well a pitbull still holds the record for most wieght pulled by a dog.

[Amstaffer]

most people don't even know the difference between pitts and "look-alikes"
Breed misidentification is a scary thing in a time breed specific legislation is growing.... Pit Bull dogs are often blamed for dog attacks that may very well have been caused by an another breed. CAN U FIND THE REAL AMERICAN PITBULL?????
click here:
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html

Cool test...I don't wanna brag but....ah got it on the first try...lol I guess I should. I bet most police officers or reporters wouldn't.

[luvmydogs]

took me like 5 tries.lol (shame on me)

[Amstaffer]

took me like 5 tries.lol (shame on me)

I hardly looked at the dogs, mostly their stance....no dog stands like a pitbull or Amstaff.

[Rose's Gal]

Well, if meeting a strange PitBull seems more dangerous than meeting a strange Chi or a strange Labrador, then I have to dissagree with you. I've meet a strange PitBull and do you know what it did to me, my 1yr old cousin and my 4yr old sis? It licked us! Heaven forbid!
I've met a strange GSD. Do you know what it did? It barked at me and chased us (we were on bikes).
I've met a Rottie/Chow mix that had been abused. Do you know what she did to me? She laid down and wanted her belly scratched after abotu 3 days of running away from us!
I'm met a strange Chi before. It tried to eat me.

My point? Any strange dog can bite. It doesn't matter about the breeds. It matters on the individual dog and the way it was raised.

I'd be more afraid of coming across a strange Aussie than a strange Pittie. But then again, I'd read the dogs body language to see what it was feeling, and then I wouldn't stare it down. If a Labrador was coming up to me tail strait up, standing on its tiptoes, staring me down, I'd be scared. If a Rottie or a Chi did that, I'd be scared. If a Pittie came up to me, bending its body, wagging its taill, hunkering to the ground, avioding my eyes, and licking me, I'd feel safe. Same if it was a Rottie or a Lab or a Chi. Don't judge by the breed, jugde by the individual.

[poeluvr]

yep i heArd aswell ridgeback can have anger issues too

[juliefurry]

yeah, my aunt had an adult ridgeback that someone had given her, because they were moving and it was very unpredictable. The dog was never abused or neglected in any way and it was completely physically healthy but it just was very tempermental and you had to be very careful around it.

[siemens716]

If Pitbulls are so unstable and are genetic killers, how come every year there are thousands of dogs shows in the USA and other countries that have 50+ intact Pitbulls, AmStaffs, American Bulldogs etc.... males together at Dog Shows with Children running around, Small Snappy Dogs, Rude Prodding Stangers and other "Triggers" for aggression and yet no one ever gets bit, no dog fights, heck I never seen one show his teeth! I did see a Fox Terrier snap at an Amstaff one time and the Staff put his ears back and head down....No attack.

Aggresive dogs are excused immediately from the ring and are not allowed to comepete in future events.

[showpug]

siemens...It depends. Some breeds are not disqualified for aggression!! It depends on the breed and in some it is acceptable but needs to be controlled. In fact, some terriers actually spar in the ring to test their true terrier tenacity. If you read the Rottweiler standard you will see them talk about it. There are other breeds too.... The only fight I have ever seen at a dog show was between two male dobermans. At one show, the Am. Staffs went before the pugs and both breeds had to stand ringside together. Never once did one go for a pug....they were well mannerd and quiet, just another example of proper training and socialization by experienced dog owners. :)

[Amstaffer]

Aggresive dogs are excused immediately from the ring and are not allowed to comepete in future events.

I have never seen an Amstaff excused or accused of aggression at a dog show. The only pitbull I have ever seen that was aggressive at a public event was a Pull competition I went to. A pitbull that was kept in his crate before his turn to pull was acting aggessive toward passing dogs but when the owner brought him out he was fine....He didn't even notice other dogs.

[Dakotah_2009]

A dog relies on it's owners to teach it right from wrong. It's the owner's fault for not teaching their dog. And, yes, I'm a Pit Bull lover.
I agree w/ everything you just said!!! I also like the pit bull breed, they are so cute to me!!