The trainer came over on Sunday

[mantine]

It went really well. This is the guy that use to be our neighbor. He use to train police dogs and he was at our house working with Grizzley for almost 2 hours and didn't charge us anything. No shock collar!! He said Grizzley got a lot more out of the puppy training class at Pet smart than he though he would have and that for a 5 month old puppy his stay is very very good :D (I gotta brag about my baby). He also said that Grizzley is very stubborn. .

He had Grizzley on the leash out in the yard and was walking around working on heel. Grizzley was actually trying to bite him while he was working on heel with him. Thats what he was doing to me in the petsmart class. He uses leash corrections (I don't know how you guys feel about that) and he said that will be the best way to get him to stop jumping on me. So I am to work with him on the leash all week getting him to jump less and the trainer will be back next weekend. I like having the private lessons. He said we will work with him at home because that is where Grizzley will feel the most comfortable and then we can take him out to the mountain to practice with distractions.

He said to use a quick firm "no" that lets Grizzley know we mean business and then when he stops praise praise praise and talk to him like he is a little baby so he knows the difference in our voice for when he is good and bad. He also said that since Grizzley isn't always reliable with his come to only say "come" when we know he will listen so the word doesn't get worn out. He said we will eventually be working with a 40 foot leash and have him stay and come from that distance.

Just wanted to let everyone know that things are looking good!!!:)

Christine
"Life's a mountain, not a beach!"

[tessa_s212]

Although no one can fairly tell you corrections are abuse, there ARE better ways to go about training your dog, especially a puppy. It is my rule of thumb, because I still use corrections(always with reinforcement and praise, however) at times to train, to not use correctional training on puppies.

What I will point out is that I'm very glad this trainer at least told you to use lots of happy praise when he does do what you want. Some harsh trainers won't even offer that great amount of happy praise.

If you'd like to attempt a different method for your puppy, what you can do is whenever Grizzely gets ahead of you or starts to pull, do a 180 and continue walking. When you do, Grizzely will hit the end of the leash and get a self correction. Be careful to not turn and walk so fast that when he does hit, he doesn't hurt himself. You just want him to hit the end enough to get an "Oh! That's the end of the leash. Where'd mom go!?" Immediately after he hits the end, encourage him back to your side, rewarding with treats and praising when he is at your side. Do this every time he gets out of heel position. Soon enough, he'll learn he gets rewarded and a happy mom whenever he is at this position on his mom's side. As soon as he is offering this behavior, you can name it "Heel". Because the dog already understands the behavior, it will be easier for him to associate the word "heel" with it, rather than using the word right from the start.

This training method even helps to train attention. The dog will be looking for you so that it does not hit the end of the leash, and if you are turning, he's got to keep an eye on you and where you are going. Attention is another important of teaching a competition heel, if you ever choose to get into obedience trials. *hint, hint* :)

[mantine]

That is exactly how the trainer was doing heel and you could see Grizzley starting to pay more attention to where the trainer was.

What I will point out is that I'm very glad this trainer at least told you to use lots of happy praise when he does do what you want. Some harsh trainers won't even offer that great amount of happy praise.

He used a lot of priase himself with the dog...it was funny cuz he's a pretty big guy and to see him get all into the baby talk with a high pitched voice and everything. :lol-sign:

Grizzley loves to jump on me, I can't even run around the yard with him because of it...all the fun hide and seek games...can't play them with him. My legs and arms are covered in long scratches and bruises and he even got my face yesterday and the scratch starts at my eyebrow and goes to just below my eye (good thing my eye was closed :o) right?) So he had me run with Grizzley on the leash and when he would try to jump he gets the leash correction and as soon as he is down he gets praised. Hurting Grizzley and damaging our relationship is definately not one of my goals. If there is a better way to teach him not to jump please let me know (that is not meant to be sarcastic, I know tone is hard to get across when just reading).

Attention is another important of teaching a competition heel, if you ever choose to get into obedience trials. *hint, hint*

hint hint as in you think I should get him into obedience trials? I just posted a few questions on agility training. I am interested in it, I am sure Grizzley would do awesome, but have never done anything like that before.

[tessa_s212]

Grizzley loves to jump on me, I can't even run around the yard with him because of it...all the fun hide and seek games...can't play them with him. My legs and arms are covered in long scratches and bruises and he even got my face yesterday and the scratch starts at my eyebrow and goes to just below my eye (good thing my eye was closed :o) right?) So he had me run with Grizzley on the leash and when he would try to jump he gets the leash correction and as soon as he is down he gets praised. Hurting Grizzley and damaging our relationship is definately not one of my goals. If there is a better way to teach him not to jump please let me know (that is not meant to be sarcastic, I know tone is hard to get across when just reading).



hint hint as in you think I should get him into obedience trials? I just posted a few questions on agility training. I am interested in it, I am sure Grizzley would do awesome, but have never done anything like that before.

This is good. I'm glad he uses much praise. :)

For jumping, though I do admit I only have limited experience with such horrible jumping, I simply take away the fun. If they start jumping on me, I stop in my tracks and ignore the dog. I do not pay any attention to it at all until it stops jumping and is an all fours. I then praise and will continue my walking/running. I stop EVERY time it jumps, ending the dog's fun.

I do realize the above method can be a bit unreasonable if the dog is a much larger dog, but Grizzely doesn't look too big. I've done this with a dog as large as a husky mix, however with the husky instead of allowing it to jump until it got bored, I'd stop and ask for a sit. Soon enough, the dog woudl sit instead of jumping on me, however this may not be as straight forward to the point when actually running than the corrections. It makes a dog actually think.

As for the obedience trials, it seems you have a very active, intelligent dog. Not only is the training good mental stimulation, but it can build and strengthen the relationship between you and your dog. Aand agility is another great idea! I'm an even bigger agility addict than obedience, but I enjoy and compete in both. I don't see why not.. Give it a try!:)

[mantine]

I do realize the above method can be a bit unreasonable if the dog is a much larger dog, but Grizzely doesn't look too big. I've done this with a dog as large as a husky mix, however with the husky instead of allowing it to jump until it got bored, I'd stop and ask for a sit.

The picture of him is from at least a month ago, Last time I weighed him he was 33.5 pounds and that was 3 weeks ago. He's gotta be pushing 40 pounds at least. I think he is going to be on the higher end of the weight scale for a male aussie, he is only 5 months old.

The method you use above I have used on him for times like when I get home from work, it is always "sit, calm" and then he gets petted and it did work. It took about 1.5 to 2 months for it to work but now when I come home he comes up and sits right away, he may jump a little bit but not on me.

Soon enough, the dog woudl sit instead of jumping on me, however this may not be as straight forward to the point when actually running than the corrections.

Jumping while I am running with him or playing around is what I need to work on now.

It makes a dog actually think

This is something I think the trainer is going to work on to. I told him how Grizzley loves the frisbee so he told me to every once in a while have him "stay" while the frisbee is thrown and he is not allowed to go get it until I say.

[Zoom]

It's an Aussie thing to jump; Sawyer was horrible at it when I first got him. We eventually got to a compromise so that he's allowed to jump in play, it just has to be a foot in front of me. When we're running, he would either jump or grab the leash in his mouth and run that way, so first I had to make sure I was holding the leash at the exact length that would check him when he jumped, but he still could run freely. Then I had to work on a moving "leave it" so he'd quit grabbing the leash.

I know what you're going through! :) Be glad he's still small and not a full 50 pounds doing this.

[Doberluv]

You probably don't want to know what I think, so I'll make it brief. Personally, I don't go for using leash corrections on dogs because it isn't necessary and it's unfair when they don't know what they're suppose to do. I especially don't believe in them for puppies as training should be associated with nothing but fun and a rewarding time. It should not be serious, get-down-to-business at any time with a puppy IMO...too much wear and tear on a pup.

I use methods which make a dog reliable and at the same time, he's exuberant and willing to learn more. Aversives tend to shut down a dog and have the potential to put the brakes on offering new behaviors.

Police dogs are often chosen for their tougher temperaments. Not every dog has the same level of sensativity and you just never know. It's just that I feel there are more effective ways without causing the stress of painful or uncomfortable collar yanks, the confusion of being punished when the dog doesn't know what's going on and such a serious attitude. It can be hard on a pup or any dog and can have an impact on their future. IMO.

[mantine]

So to teach him not to jump on me while running around and playing whats the best way to go about it without leash corrections? Do I run slow and then when he jumps tell him no, praise and then continue? Then slowly up the speed as he gets better?

You probably don't want to know what I think, so I'll make it brief. Personally, I don't go for using leash corrections on dogs because it isn't necessary and it's unfair when they don't know what they're suppose to do. I especially don't believe in them for puppies as training should be associated with nothing but fun and a rewarding time. It should not be serious, get-down-to-business at any time with a puppy IMO...too much wear and tear on a pup.

You may not believe me because I am using a trainer that uses leash corrections but I agree with you. If I can find a way to teach him not to jump on me while playing without the leash corrections I am all for it, I don't like the idea of yanking on his neck either. I know if took over a month for him to stop jumping while greeting me so I know it won't be an overnight change for him to stop jumping on me while playing (even though I want it to be :) ).

It's an Aussie thing to jump; Sawyer was horrible at it when I first got him. We eventually got to a compromise so that he's allowed to jump in play, it just has to be a foot in front of me. When we're running, he would either jump or grab the leash in his mouth and run that way, so first I had to make sure I was holding the leash at the exact length that would check him when he jumped, but he still could run freely.

What method did you use to get him to jump in front of you?

Then I had to work on a moving "leave it" so he'd quit grabbing the leash.

Grizzley is horrible with this to but its strange....it's only on our property that he is bad. If I take him out to the mountain he doesn't grab the leash once. At home if I take him for a walk he will grab and pull on the leash until we get off of the property then he is fine for the entire walk and as soon as we get back to the property he starts pulling on the leash again. He gets viscous with me to. I am not sure what to do in this situation. I was trying to work with him yesterday. Do I hold onto the leash until he lets go? I tried just letting him run around outside with it on to get used to it but he was running with it in his mouth like a proud puppy "look what I got". Then I tried playing to tire him out a little bit and tried again and same thing, pulling and showing his teeth, growling and nipping at me when I try to get it out of his mouth. I tried treats, but he eats the treat and picks the leash up again. Any pointers?

[Doberluv]

When you're running and playing, this entices him to chase and jump. It entices his prey drive. Personally, I would keep that to a minimum while he's a pup and learning, at least not get too wild. Try to find a new game, like fetch, frisby chasing, drag a rope with a toy attached for him to chase and grab. Redirect him so he has an outlet, but not that the outle is on you. LOL. But if he jumps, simply end the fun. Walk away and ignore him for a minute. You don't have to say "no" or attend to him at all. In fact, sometimes that attention just reinforces him. Whenever he does something you don't like as far as jumping up, nipping, end all playtime immediately. Be consistant and he'll learn what behavior gets you to play with him, what gets him what he likes, maybe even a treat. It shouldn't take a whole month to teach him not to jump on you if you're very consistant and do not give him ANY attention for it. Remove the good thing; you, the play, attention.

If you work on obedience, like sit, if you just wait to give him attention when greeting, he'll eventually wonder what's up and he'll sit and look at you. That's when you greet and give the attention.

Leave it: hold a treat in one closed fist. Let him sniff, mouth, lick, whatever. Keep your fist closed. Don't speak. When he backs away a step or two and looks at you, say, "leave it" and give him a treat from your pocket with your other hand. Practice, practice, practice. Then wait for him to back off a little further before producing the treat from somewhere else besides the hand you're hiding the treat in. Then try putting the treat on the floor and be ready to cover it with your foot. When he looks at it like he wants to get it, say, "leave it" (now that he has made the connection between the cue and the leaving it....if he has) and cover it if he starts to go for it. Then immediately produce a treat from your pocket and toss it away from the treat on the floor. This tells him that by leaving it, he gets a treat, just not that treat.

Then start practicing with other items. Then the leash. Reward with a high value treat when he IS leaving the leash alone. Be very consistant. Reinforce a lot until he makes a connection that by leaving the leash out of his mouth, better things happen. Help him get started. See if he'll carry a stuffed animal or other favorite toy (a rope toy?) in his mouth while he's walking on your property.

Some of that wild leash grabbing will settle down as you teach him obedience skills which are VERY rewarding. As he matures and has a "job" to do, some of that silliness will subside.

Another trick that I always do with newer pups is to practice walking around the property with no leash. When the pup walks close to my side, he gets reinforced. When he doesn't, he doesn't. Get him use to walking at your side whether he has a leash on or not. Practice both ways. Without the leash, there's nothing to grab and he can learn how beneficial it is to walk near you. Make sure you use something he values highly....a yummy treat, a special toy if he's toy motivated, that you save just for this purpose. Rope toys are a lot of fun to carry and shake. It can be saved as a reward for a few nice steps without biting the leash. Reinforce before he gets the idea to bite the leash. Most people want the dog to walk for a long ways and then reward. Only expect a couple of nice steps, then reinforce those before he messes up. That way he'll make the connection sooner. In other words, set him up to succeed. LOTS. Try to always set up the environment and the situation so that he can easily succeed at what you're trying to get him to do. Don't make it more difficult. Work up in baby steps and reinforce each little success. This speeds learning.

[mantine]

He does know leave it, but I have to admit I don't work with him enough on it.

Work up in baby steps and reinforce each little success. This speeds learning.

This is what the trainer told me when I spoke with him earlier about working with the leash last night and what happened with all the biting. I just need to keep repeating that in my head, its just so easy to get frustrated.

***takes deep breath, baby steps baby steps***

[Zoom]

This was before I had any notion of actual training methods, so I just started holding my hand out in front of me and giving him a little push when he tried to jump closer.

Now I just either tell him to sit or turn my back on him and walk away if he really gets going. The past couple of days he's been really bad about it too, not sure why, but I'm having to get stricter with him and he's had to go back on a leash when walking out to daycare instead of just running ahead like he's used to.

[mantine]

Well I tried again tonight and it went much better. I took him for a hike first, came back and let us rest for about 10 minutes. Took him back outside with the leash (I am thinking the reason he might get so frustrated on the leash while just on the property is because we never have him on the leash on the property, he has always run free because he always stays by us)...anyway...I took him outside on the leash and he was fine at first so I did a few basic things like sit, down, and then he finally started grabbing and pulling him on the leash (:lol-sign: funny how when training you want them to do what you don't want them to do) I took it slow and told him to drop and he got a treat and lots of praise if he did. Then he started to really grab and pull so I turned around and ignored him and as soon as he would stop I would praise and start to run around, if he grabbed and pulled we stopped right away and so on and so forth. I even dangled the leash in front of his face a few times and told him leave it while doing it and he didn't grab it. Then I started running with him and he did sooo good. I ran with him for a while on the leash and when he jumped I said no and praise when all fours were on the ground. I even wound up taking the leash off after a while and ran around with him

It was great, this was my first time being able to run around that much with him, he jumped on me every once in a while but it was only one jump, I said down, he got on all fours and we would continue running. I think he enjoyed it to. :D :D :D I am so happy. Don't know if it was the "baby steps" or if he was just having a good night. We'll find out tomorrow.