Protection training

[a.person]

Hello,
I have a 9 week old male boxer dog.
He will start basic obedience training when he is older (walking to heel etc), but I am wanting for him to be trained in protection also.
It is common in my area for people to buy dogs of a vicious breed (pit bull etc) and severely neglect and abuse it in order to make it vicious; and therefor protect the owner.
Obviously I would never treat any of my own animals like this.
Does anyone have any advice as to how I can bring out the urge to protect from my dog? I know of people who have trained their dogs todo this at home.. but I don't know where I can find information on methods.. dispite looking for the best part of an hour.
(I have been mugged twice in the last year - hence why I would like my dog trained)

All help is appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
A.Person

[Maxy24]

Most dogs will defend there owners without training. Boxers are a protective breed in the first place so I don't think you would need to train him to be aggressive. It can be dangerous to do since you some how need to teach the dog when it's ok to attack and when it's not. Many times just having the dog with you will be enough to deter a criminal. You could go into Schutzhund which is a dog sport that teaches protection. But you still need to be sure you can handle the dog, you don't want him attacking someone who means no harm.

and FYI Pit Bulls are not a vicious breed ;)

[Red_ACD_for_me]

:spam: I hope I am wrong but I recall either on Chaz or another forum I am on a topic such as this was posted with a similar story :confused: I hope this is for real A.person because If I were you and got mugged twice in the past I would be carrying mace to protect myself not worrying about making my dog vicious. Most boxers I have known (alot) were terrible watch/guard dogs. Maybe you should have gotten a vicious dog such as a PITBULL :rolleyes: Pitbulls make poor watch dogs to if you knew anything about the breed :cool:

[Brattina88]

Maxy, I have to disagree for once ;) :p lol

Most people like to believe that their dogs will protect them, but in all reality many dogs won't do anything but make a lot of noise and put on a good (scary) act if something happens... We've programed them from puppy hood that it is NOT okay to bite, and that WE are in charge and we'll handle things, so a good ammt of dogs biting or attacking somebody doesn't really cross their minds if/when something happens IMHO
Also, this may be irrelevant, but I wanted to add that some people get confused with dogs protecting their territory compared to dogs protecting their owners :o
Many times just having the dog with you will be enough to deter a criminal. You could go into Schutzhund which is a dog sport that teaches protection.
I very much agree!!

I would suggest finding a trainer experienced in the protection field - that way there aren't any worries about messing up, or causing an animal to be aggressive or 'out of control'.

a.p - I very much understand how you are feeling! I do not live in a very good side of town, and boy can I tell you stories of stuff that has happened to me! The same thoughts crossed my head when my GSD that I adopted from a pound became healthy, and was excelling in training.
I decided, even with a trainer, that it just wasn't for me.
Instead, I figured (with a few opinions other than my own lol) that having a full grown, well trained GSD was protection enough. The same with your Boxer, perhaps?
She barks (which is scary enough) on command, which is intimidating to others. But I've been told that the way she watches me, especially when heeling, displays that she's not only in-tune with me, but extremely obedient to where one may think she actually is trained for protection.

Also, I read on another forum that if you have a dog trained in bite work you might actually have to have special insurance on your dog. :confused: Not too sure about that one, I admit, but just wanted to share ! HTH

[Maxy24]

Well at least I would like to think my dog would protect me :o For me Putting on a good growl, bark and lunge show is enough protection from a mugger unless the guy was really crazy. I did read that Boxers were decent guard dogs though. Brattina you are probably right about dogs protecting territory rather than their people. Max always got into "protection mode" when some person was wandering around the outside of the house at night but it is most likely he planned on defending his house not the people in it. Although he very well my have run and hid or tried to get attention from the intruder :rolleyes: The thing is you won't know until it happens.

Red has a point. If I were you I would be getting more than a dog for protection. Whether it's a gun, knife, or mace you can be sure that will defend you if you use it. I also remember a thread not to long ago about someone wanting to train a protection dog, but we should not jump to conclusions.

If you are really serious about having a protection dog then you will need a GOOD trainer who will make sure you get a protective dog not a randomly aggressive dog. Schutzhund teaches protection, tracking and obedience, like police dog work.

[a.person]

Mace, knives and such like are against the law to carry in the united kingdom, they are also not a visual deterrent. (I live in London)

[Brattina88]

linky (http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=16&page=1)
I know its not a boxer forum :o, but as I don't have any Schutzhund experience this is the best I can do...
There's great info on this site... HTH

[ACooper]

My friend has boxers, our neighbors have boxers, and I have been around quite a few. They do not normally make good protection dogs, and especially with out training. The ones I know would much rather be clowns than guard anything :)

[RedyreRottweilers]

The very best way to encourage this is to raise a well trained and socialized friendly puppy. In order to have the self confidence to go out to the end of a leash and defend a handler, a dog must be self assured, at ease, and very confident.

Step one is take your puppy out and encourage friendly interaction with all kinds of people. I take puppies out almost every day until at least 6 months of age. I take treats, and work on attention, and positive fun obedience at the same time. Encourage your puppy to visit and happily greet all kinds of people.

Next, get in training class early. Use positive training methods, and stick with it. Any dog who is to be a potential PP dog should have excellent obedience skills beforehand.

I will tell you that pedigree is vital in this regard. If your puppy does not come from trained parents that have been tested with a helper, it may be difficult to get any defense out of the dog.

And lastly, no, many dogs will NOT protect a handler if the situation gets absolutely serious. NEVER depend on any dog to protect you that has not been trained to do so.

JMO as always.

:D

[Zoom]

There are different lines to boxers as well. Most of the ones we run across anymore are the softer pet lines, versus the working ones. I think we had a good thread about not too long ago, it may have been one of the links posted already.

Redyre gave good advice. A self-assured, solid dog can do quite a bit just through presence alone. My Australian Shepherd has detered some people from coming too close to me just by looking at them and this is a fluffy dog that doesn't normally strike dread into people's hearts.

[PWCorgi]

She barks (which is scary enough) on command, which is intimidating to others.
I agree that barking alone can be a very good deterrent.

You could even use a command for barking to make it seem like he is trained in protection.
For instance, instead of using the word "speak" you could use "Watch him"

[planet molosser]

A 9 week old puppy should be doing nothing but fun and basic obedience.
Then advanced obedience before protection trained.
I do test _NOT train my dogs to protect me until 15 months to 3 years depending on maturity level of said dog.

You must work with a qualified trainer to determine if you dog is suited to be trained to protect.

A social , well adjusted socialized dog , with balanced drives can make a excellent protection prospect be it natural or trained..

Have fun and CUE the dog into liking and accepting all creatures 4 legged and 2 . Teach him to release anything he has in his mouth at the same time left him play tug . These foundations will help you if the dog is to be a trained PP dog.

Best of luck.

[a.person]

I agree that barking alone can be a very good deterrent.

You could even use a command for barking to make it seem like he is trained in protection.
For instance, instead of using the word "speak" you could use "Watch him"

Thanks for the advice, I think I will stick with his obedience training and then see how he is after we've completed that.
Thinking about it, I'm not sure I could trust a dog who is trained to attack - off the lead in public places.

I looked into training my Tibetan Terrier to bark on command, but I could not find anything at the time.
Does anyone have any suggestions on how I could train this? (for when the boxer is older)
I trained my TT to run to the door and bark on command, though this was just through me saying it when he heard something.

I think also the fact that he will be a visual deterrent should help, he has very nice markings and is big for 9 weeks old.. he eats like a little runt! His sire was very large for a boxer, also.

Although all Boxers are unique, I have to disagree with the statement that they are bad for guarding. Before buying this puppy I read for hours on the temperament of the boxer, my neighbor also has a 2 year old boxer who does not let anyone inside their house (just stands in the door-way barking, jumping up, biting etc).

Thanks again.

[planet molosser]

Again it is drives if your breeder was selecting for combo's of prey and or defense drive good chance you have a working protection line.
IF the parents were titled or working dogs.

Once the Boxer was bred for the pet fancy, breeders selected away from the working dogs to dogs that could meet the demand of the pet owners in the USA.

Popularity can ruin a breed or save it depends on what thought process you are using.

PS a dog that is PROPERLY protection trained to PROTECT on command is more reliable off leash then a PET dog that gets loose.

You dont here many PP titled dogs killing people it would be a odd case .
Where Pet dogs that are "attacked trained " by wanna bes in yards are the ones that do harm . Because they do not have the proper training.

A great PP dog is trained to PROTECT on Command vs defense breeds.
Plus they are trained to OUT and to RECALL on a dime.

However just watch the TV show with the guy who gets paid to break in to ones houses. He has PUSHED passed many a breed of dogs that the owners is lIKE dam , dog barks and lunges at door , but when challenged by a prof bad guy just let the guy walk away with the house .
And in some cases KISSED the bad guys cause they felt hurt when the bad guys commanded them off, called the bluff no one else ever did and ignored them.

[PWCorgi]

I looked into training my Tibetan Terrier to bark on command, but I could not find anything at the time.
Does anyone have any suggestions on how I could train this? (for when the boxer is older)


What I did was to just get my dog really, really excited (play with him, take his toy and get him all excited with it) and when he barked I praised. After he started doing this whenever he got riled up and I knew he was about to bark I'd say "speak" (or if you wanted to, "watch him") and then praise when he barked. Soon enough every time I said speak, he barked!

Doberluv just posted something about teaching them to speak I do believe, I'll try to find it.

[PWCorgi]

Here you go.

Click Me. (http://www.chazhound.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56919&highlight=charliesmom)

[Romy]

I think that many dogs will protect their people when the situation is bad enough. Once I was house sitting for my aunt. She has a GSD who was severely abused and submissive pees if you look at her crosseyed. This dog is very attached to me and once a man broke into the house while I was there alone. Their mastiff just kind of smiled and drooled, and the GSD ran behind me to hide (so I could protect her), but when she heard me yell for help and start crying she charged out and bit the man up pretty bad. He got away, and it took 45 minutes for the police to come. I know that she saved my life when she realized I couldn't handle the situation on my own.

Another time I was canoeing alone, and my friend made me take her geriatric old sheltieXgolden along, just to "be safe". I wasn't sure what she meant because Jake is the biggest fraidy cat on the planet. Maybe she meant leave him for a bear to eat while I ran away? :p

Anyway, Jake just fell asleep in the bottom of the canoe. About 2 miles down stream there was a cougar on the bank, about an arms length away from me just staring. I must have made a noise because Jake woke up and turned into Kujo, all frothy and growling, and he put himself between me and the cougar. He even got his paws wet!! (big deal for that dog) I turned the canoe around and paddled back home very fast, the cougar followed us the whole way and the entire time Jake kept himself between the cougar and me. I do not doubt for an instant that he would have fought that cougar if necessary.

I could also go on and on about how our elkhound would never let my dad spank us kids. :D She respected him greatly, but she would NOT let him spank us. She even bit him once when he tried. :) I know that she would have done anything to protect us if the need arose. And then we had the doberman mix that protected us kids from the neighbors three GSDs that tried to attack us in the cattle field one time (they had actually killed our cattle before). All of these brave deeds were performed by dogs with no background in protection training. They were just well loved pets.

Honestly, whether or not the boxer pup will attack a mugger is kind of irrelevant. Boxers are VERY muscular, intimidating dogs. People who become theives do so because they are too lazy to earn things on their own. Having to deal with a large muscular dog who might bite their face off or attract a lot of attention makes mugging you too much work to be worth it. They will look for an easier target.

In the meantime, try enrolling in some self defense classes. There are certain kinds of postures and body language muggers look for when choosing victims, and you may be able to avert a future attack by standing straighter and looking more alert.

[whatszmatter]

You can't learn to do this by reading a message board that is a fact.

Doing good training takes time and money and knowledge. If you're that afraid get some other means to protect you.

Training a PPD does not involve abuse or neglect. Some people will do this and they end up creating very dangerous dogs that are unstable and not able to be trusted. In addition, most people training this way have dogs that, if given the choice, would turn tail and run or turn on the owner in the face of a real stress or threat.

boxers can make good dogs if they come from the right breeding

[DanL]

The 1st thing you need to do is get your dog as well balanced and as well trained as you can. The 2nd thing you need to do is to wait for your dog to be physically and mentally ready to protect you. That can be 2-3 years. Not many dogs can truely protect before that. They just are not mature enough to have the defensive and fight drives that the dog needs. Most dogs, when given the prospect of fight or flight, will take flight. When people say "my 6 month old -insert breed name here- protects me" they are kidding themselves. Sure, a puppy will bark and often that is enough of a deterrent to an intruder or would be attacker. You should hear our 7 month old Great Dane. She shakes the floor barking at people and imaginary object outside. That is not protecting at all, it's a fear reaction. Now maybe when she's 2, it won't be a fear reaction, and she won't be barking as much. Gunnar went thru the same phase, where he barked at a lot of things. Now when he barks, I go check it out because he doesn't bark at just anything.

Bottom line- take the advise people have given you here. Make your dog as well rounded and as soundly trained as possible. Don't worry about it REALLY protecting you for a long time, if ever.