sleeping outside

[sandman]

ok, this is my last question...i think.

I know she probably should have been sleeping outside since I got her, buut it's winter here and she is a tad older now, so she has started sleeping outside. There should be no problem as she is now right next to my other 2 dogs who love her. She also has a nice comfy bed even with a hot water bottle in it. So why is she crying? She will do it for an hour or 2 then just go to sleep. So do I keep ignoring her? or do i go out when she is quiet and reward her for being that way? I'm not quite sure how to handle this one. My dad says that she will get over it and just go to sleep. But i cant help but worry about her. help please

Kez

[Maxy24]

I'm never a fan of leaving a dog outside, he probably misses being with you. Is there a reason he has to be out there? If he must then yes you'll have to ignore him. When you put him in give him some toys to occupy him (maybe a big bone, bully stick or stuffed kong) to keep his mind off of you. How cold are your winters and what is your kennel set-up like? A hot water bottle gets cold eventually so an insulated dog house up off the ground would be better. We have a member with a great kennel set-up, she has a post about it somewhere that I will try to find for you. The simple explanation for her crying is that you are her family and she wants to be with you. Does she handle the cold OK?

[Maxy24]

here's the kennel post
http://www.chazhound.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33091&highlight=kennel

[squirtsmom]

If she was an inside dog, and is now an outside dog, she is having anxilety like the previous poster said. Why was she put outside?

[MafiaPrincess]

You put an 8 week old puppy outside to sleep? Why get a puppy if you don't want it in the house..

[Doberluv]

Puppies and adult dogs belong with their people. They're hardwired to be with their human family. Bring your dogs inside to be with you. Your puppy is very very young and crying because she's lonely and afraid of being without you. I recommend a crate on the floor next to your bed for night time. You'll end up with a much better bond and a better behaved dog if you develop a very close relationship with her. This is the essence of that.....being close to you as much as possible.

[bubbatd]

I can't fathom getting a puppy and not have it in the house .

[ACooper]

Agree with everyone else............I got my dogs for companions, family members, and just all around LOVE.
They sleep outside when I do (camping) and that is the only time :)

[sandman]

I live in australia, so winters aren't too cold. Even when she was inside she would still cry, also it isnt me that doesnt want her inside, it's my dad, his dogs sleep outside so why shouldnt mine, when our other dog was a pup, she stayed outside. She has 2 dogs as company, a kennel, a dog bed inside the kennel, and a blanket. Also has a rawhide bone to chew, and a couple of squeaky toys too. Not everyone has inside dogs. It's not too cold atm and she also wears a woollen jumper at night! She should be warm enough.

Kez

[MafiaPrincess]

They why buy another dog? Honestly.. You already have two outside, why do you need a third out there? Great doesn't get too cold. What about the heat?

[bubbatd]

If I had an outside " pet " it would be a hen to lay eggs or a goat ( or sheep ) to clip my grass . To me domesticated animals deserve an indoor life and human contact .Exceptions : working dogs ... farm or sledding .

[noludoru]

Agreed with all the above posters. I don't see why you have a puppy that is outdoors, not with you. There's NO good reason to put her outside, especially not when you were doing just fine with her sleeping inside with you. She wants to be near you.. dogs want to be near their humans.. just because your dad's dogs have been forced to be unhappy outside doesn't mean your should.

[sandman]

just because they are outside doesnt mean they are unhappy! Our dogs are perfectly healthy and happy! I bought my pup because, well why shouldn't I? She is my dog, and the others are my parents. Dogs do very well ouside! One of ours is 17yo and still sleeps outside! To me, dogs can be inside or outside dogs. Do not insult me by saying "why did you buy her if you were going to put her outside" The other dog of ours is 12yo and she stayed outside since she was a pup. Lots of people do it. She comes inside with me during the day, comes everywhere with me in the car. I see no reason why she shouldn't learn to stay outside of a night. I joined this forum to have my questions answered not to be questioned about why I bought my pup! I know she wants to be with me, BUT again there is no reason why she shouldn't sleep outside. She is undercover and has warm bedding and a kennel.
Also in summer it does get rather hot but the dogs have kiddie pools to cool off in, and shade.

[sandman]

Here are some pics of our setup, the cardboard box btw is temporary until she has a proper kennel. Has bedding all through it.

This is the 17yo, Ben in his bed.
http://i8.tinypic.com/62qzkft.jpg

This is the 12yo, Pip, she has a wire run all the way up the paddock.
http://i17.tinypic.com/4xx9t93.jpg

And this is my girl, Indie. She likes her box as you can see.
http://i16.tinypic.com/6fgslkp.jpg

So if anyone has any INFORMATIVE replies as to how I can improve it, by all means post away. If you are just posting to insult me more then don't bother.

[Mindy40]

I am not going to insult you. I try my best not to judge. It sounds like you spend a lot of time with your dogs. I guess what I don't understand is why are they allowed in the house during the day, but must sleep outside at night?

[Lizmo]

All right, I'm not going to say a THING about them sleeping outside, that's beside the point.

Have you seen their water? OMG wow, that's sick! And where they sleep! it's SOOO dirty! And Pip sleeping with a huge chain like that on.

Wow :mad:

[Momof2Pups]

I noticed that, too, Jen. It's dirty, including their drinking water, and the doghouse and cardboard box look like they offer very poor insulation. Not to mention the chain Pip is on. There's a thread OC made about proper containment of outdoor dogs, and she has a nice set up below.
I'm offering this though I am not an advocate of outdoor dogs.

http://www.chazhound.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33091

[ACooper]

Sandman if you are looking for anyone here to agree with them sleeping outside, or indulging your notions.........you are in the wrong place. Most of us here do not agree with it, nor would we encourage anyone else to do it.

That is meant in the most kind and sincere way I can say it.

[sandman]

because thats how all our dogs have been brought up. She comes in more then the others, because im home more. I like to have her with me as much as i can. I would love to have her inside with me but to me dogs belong outside during the night. She is also not completely trustworthy with carpet yet. No dogs allowed upstairs or on the good carpet, which is fair enough since parents paid for it. Dad is more lenient with her then he is with his own dogs, because she's still a pup.

Any suggestions as to how i can make her sleeping area better, please don't hesitate.

[Momof2Pups]

See my edited post above.

[sandman]

All right, I'm not going to say a THING about them sleeping outside, that's beside the point.

Have you seen their water? OMG wow, that's sick! And where they sleep! it's SOOO dirty! And Pip sleeping with a huge chain like that on.

Wow :mad:

The water is actually CLEAN! The bowl is old. They get fresh water every day. As I said before Pip has run of the whole paddock. Our dogs are very healthy, and i think that shows since we have had them this way for years and Ben, you know he's 17 and we have had him since he was a pup as well! He is still going with NO health problems at all apart from old age creeping up on him. I think you people have the wrong idea about your dogs, yes I love my dogs, and I love to have them healthy and happy, BUT I think you are forgetting that they are in fact dogs...not people. If you choose to have your dog inside with you at all times that is your choice. Lots of people have their dogs sleep outside. As for my pup, I will have you know after 2 nights she has stopped crying and is happy outside with the others. So thanks for nothing, with the exception of one member who actually tried to help me by directing me to another post.

[sandman]

plus as for pips chain, i dont think you realize WHY she has a big chain on, which in fact is not that heavy at all! She is extremely good at breaking chains. Been through tons of them.

[Lizmo]

Sandman if you are looking for anyone here to agree with them sleeping outside, or indulging your notions.........you are in the wrong place. Most of us here do not agree with it, nor would we encourage anyone else to do it.

That is meant in the most kind and sincere way I can say it.

Exactly.

[Momof2Pups]

I agree, Coop.

plus as for pips chain, i dont think you realize WHY she has a big chain on, which in fact is not that heavy at all! She is extremely good at breaking chains. Been through tons of them.
And you don't know what message she's sending you by that?
Poor dogs. :(

[~Jessie~]

I just want to say... WOW.

The water has algae growing in it... how would you like to drink water with green slime all in it?

Everything looks filthy and unsanitary. That is just really sad :(

[noludoru]

http://i17.tinypic.com/4xx9t93.jpg
http://i16.tinypic.com/6fgslkp.jpg


I'm going to do my absolute best to be polite.With that said, I'm rescuing a dog from WORSE conditions than yours are in. So for everyone in the thread.. please remember.. there is worse. At least Sandman's dogs have water. Midnight cannot say the same for himself, and there's nothing I can do about it for now. :( There IS something we can do for Sandman's dogs, though.

#1 you are going to need to find a place your dogs can stay in for several hours while you clean. Preferably a fenced area, or a room, and preferably supervised.

First things first.. clear out all the bowls/bedding/cardboard/newspaper/etc. Anything that can be picked up and moved, please do so. Spoiled, dirty things go in the trash (ie the newspaper and that bowl if you cannot thoroughly scrub the algae out--many types of algae are poisonous to dogs, and that algae is 'blooming' which is very dangerous). Things like bowls and toys go in a clean sink or bucket filled with scalding water that's loaded with soap, and let soak for a bit. When the water is at a temperature your hands can stand, scrub them CLEAN. Clean enough that you would not hesitate to lick it. If you cannot get the things in that condition.. throw them out.

Next please remove the 'beds' for your dogs. The cardboard one ought to be thrown away. Go buy a decently built 'house.' I don't know what kind. Perhaps another member (OC? I'll PM her and see.) can suggest good 'house' ideas, for building yourself or for buying.

Sweep up the area thoroughly (some sort of 'push' broom, I don't know what they are called, rather than the usual ones works best) removing all hay, hair, debris, and dirt. Next hose down the concrete--that IS concrete, yes?--thoroughly. Pull out some heavy-duty cleaning products (I would personally suggest a 2-5% solution of bleach, but other members no doubt have better suggestions) and CLEAN. Get down on your knees and scrub until you are tired. Hose it off, make more solution and scrub some more. Then thoroughly wash it off, letting the water run for a long while, and make sure to get the cleaning solution out of all the areas it may have gone on the ground near by. (Running the hose for a bit should do the trick.)

If I am wrong and the platform the beds are on is NOT concrete.. if you can't scrub it clean, get rid of it. Pave the area with bricks, lay some concrete there, something. You need something easily washable. If you get concrete, you are going to need to buy some easily washable plastic mats. (The kind they have in horse stables...) They will provide comfort, warmth in winter, prevent the dogs from hurting themselves on hard surfaces constantly, and be easy to remove and clean. Cut them down to fit well.

I don't know if the area is enclosed, but your next step is to enclose it. Something like the lattice you have near Indie will suffice well. Buy some more lattice, or planks, whatever works, and make it dog-proof.

Chain link fence around the ENTIRE area the dogs are will eliminate te need for chains, so I highly suggest you do so, but any kind of fencing at least 4' in height will work. I suggest 5'.

Your next step, now, after you have thoroughly cleaned and discarded things (Everything should be spotless now--the trashcan should be cleaned and moved somewhere else, and the beddings should be washed with soap and dried.) is to wash your dogs. They probably smell to high heavens. Give them a good wash with some soap specially made for dogs. Clean and dry their collars or buy new ones.

Now your bowls, blankets, toys, and brand new places for them to sleep should be clean and sanitary. As I said before, if the stuff is not clean enough to be licked, then it should have a one-way field trip to the trash can. Your next step is to KEEP the area that way. Every day poop should be scraped up and hosed off. In the thread previously linked, OC says that lime works well in getting rid of the smell. Use it. Bowls should be scrubbed thoroughly in hot water with some mild soap daily, because standing water outside tends to get things growing in it. Food bowls should be washed after each use in the same fashion. When toys get a little grimy, same thing.

Bedding should be washed when dirty or beginning to smell, and at the very least every two weeks.

[Dekka]

great post Noludoru!!

I would like to point out that healthy does not equate happy. You can keep a horse cooped up in a 12X12 stall all its life, or a man in a 6X5 cell and keep them healthy. Does not make them content. (not saying your dogs are that bad, just as a point when you say they are healthy)

You can get strong thin metal cord that is pretty much unbreakable if you need to tie (though a chain link fence is best) so your poor dog isn't trying to sleep with the heavy chain on.

Why do you think dogs should stay outside at night? To me that is as strange as saying I want kids, but they need to sleep in the shed at night. Now my untrustworthy ones do sleep in crates at night. But really why get an animal that has been bred for millenia to be with humans, then toss it out for the night. I know people used to do this, but we learn. We have learned much about dogs (and other animals) in the last 50 years.

[Angel Chicken]

I have a few things myself to say...

I don't normally jump into these threads, but I feel the need to now.

Sandman, let me first say that your pups are darlings!

Ok, now that I have said that, on to my advice.

Now, I am against keeping dogs outside myself, that will not stop me from trying to help you, though!!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Winter's in Australia aren't too cold at all, are they?

First, I think you need to get you a nice kennel run. With three dogs, it will have to be a big one. I see you have two dog houses already, so all you will need to do is follow Nol's post and CLEAN THE HELL OUT OF THOSE!

Get another dog house for the pup. Cardboard will not do.

Secondly, you will need to make these dog houses a rise so they are off the ground, away from water if it rains or things of the sort.

The rise should look something like this
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h305/LauraAnn828/dogrise.jpg

This will keep them high and dry in the rain and out of the dirt. You should use sturdy wood to make this, so it can hold up under the dog's weight.

If anyone feels like they should add more... please do. I think I covered most everything.

[~Jessie~]

Great post, AC :)

[oc_spirit]

Ok, yes I do keep my dogs outside but I would never EVER keep them in the condition yours are in....Nothing against you personally, but seriously, those conditions are dispicable. You were linked to my article that I have posted here (actually yuo were given the link twice), I did not clean up the kennel at all for any of thse pictures, that's simply how clean my kennel is all the time (the way it should be). The winter one you will notice some straw and shavings on the floor which is from it clinging to the dog's fur when they come out of their dog house, and then falling off when they do their morning shake. It gets swept once a week.

I dont know where to even start here....Well deffinately first thing is the thorough cleaning like Noludoru suggested. Bowls and such are expensive at pet stores, I suggest going to co-op stores or other farm supply shops instead. They tend to be much more appropriately-priced.

Deffinately throw out that cardboard box! That is going to do nothing for you puppy but make things worse. If it rains the cordboard absorbs the moisture making the inside damp and COLD. NOT what you want a pup to be dealing with. Either buy a proper wooden doghouse (plastic ones really arent worth the money IMO) or buld one yourself. There are plenty of blueprints available on the internet which I could locate for you. Something else you could look into getting is a wooden shipping crate from a shipping company then all you have to do is attach insulation (foam insulation works great) on the inside and then put plywood over the insulation so the pup doesnt have access to chew it. This will take a little bit of time to locate and make regardless of which route you take so in the mean time what would work quite well is to get a rain barrel for each dog, fasten the lid tightly, cut a hole at one end that is just big enough for the dog to get in and out, tip it on it's side with big cylinder blocks around it so it cant roll away or fasten it to something so it cant roll away and VOILA! A temporary dog house that is water proof. If it is very warm by you, I suggest drilling some holes in the opposite side from the door for ventilation. Check your local classififed ads. I dont know about your area but around here people have doghouses for sale quite often. MAKE SURE IT IS INSULATED!!!!! ALL dog houses should be placed in a spot that is always shaded!!!!

Next step is to throw out those blankets!!!! pillows and blankets are useless to an outdoor dog especially if they get dirty/damp/wet. A much better, more efficient, and even cheaper solution is to get some shavings (not saw dust! SHAVINGS) and straw (make sure you dont get hay!). Put a layer of shavings down first (it absorbs moisture and dries quickly as well as repels fleas) and then put down a thick layer of straw. Dogs are smart, they will manipulate the straw in a way that either makes a cozy nest for cooler nights, or simply lay on top of it so it is simply a cool comfy bed.

Get the wool sweater off the puppy. If he decides to start chewing it and injests some it could cost you $$$$$$ in vet bills if you are lucky enough that he doesnt die. Besides, if your provide enough straw he shouldnt need it anyway. Actually in all honesty I am very against keeping young puppies outside especially if they dont have an older dog allowing him to share the house and snuggle up with (keep warm).

Also, Pip needs to lose weight. By allowing him to be that large all you are doing is hindering his ability to keep cool when it is warm.

I wont lie, seeing the pup in the doghouse like that doesnt give me the impression that he loves his house, it gives me the impression that he is scared. Pups of that age should be curious and boisterous, therefore when he sees you come out and especially with something new and interesting (AKA the camera) they should immediately willingly come out to explore and say hi. The fact that he stays in his box and only watches is a bit unsettling. He does have his ears up and attention on your which is good, but to me he should still be coming out to see you like Pip is.

Finally, ALL the dogs deserve some inside time not just the puppy. That is crucial bonding time and the dogs really do enjoy it. Right now my "outdoor dogs" are camped out beside me in the basement. They will be staying inside all day even when I go to work because it is too hot for them outside. Later on in the evening, then they go outside and will sleep outside but tomorrow morning they will be back in again. Like I said in my article any time I am home and awake the dogs are inside with me because as much as they love it outside, they still want to be with me too, and I want to be with them.

[noludoru]

Oh OC! :hail: And another round of :hail: :hail: to Dekka and Jessie.

I do hope we've helped.

[sandman]

Ok i took all of advice in but, my dogs will still sleep outside. As for the conditions, pup got a brand new doghouse yesterday. Pip will always be chained up but I have asked my dad to let her off every day for a while. The chain is not actually heavy, it looks it, but its not, as hard as that may be to believe. I cleaned the whole area and pup has a temporary pen made from lattice to keep her in, along with the new doghouse, which is raised above the ground by 4 little legs. The area is not exactly huge, but she isn't in there during the day remember. Also Ben the old one, he is never tied up. He just waunders around. Here are some new pix.

Pips doghouse, she can still jump up the paddock.
http://i9.tinypic.com/66nlkcj.jpg

This is where she can run up, allllll the way up there.
http://i9.tinypic.com/53t16ow.jpg

This is the new puphouse.
http://i15.tinypic.com/6gxktmw.jpg

And this is her night time playpen, scuse the mess i haven't cleaned it out yet.
http://i18.tinypic.com/5ybvj3s.jpg


so, is this ok by everyone? I pup alot of effort into making this yesterday, not to mention how much the doghouse cost.

[bubbatd]

Why does Pip need to be chained within the fencing ..???

[Doberluv]

I am sorry, but that's a miserable life for a dog.........to be chained up so much. What a sad, sad situation. It's no different than if a human being were chained up all the time. It's cruel. You ought to re-home at least that dog to someone who has the time and know how to train her so she doesn't "have" to be chained.

I know you're trying and it's not all up to you.

[ACooper]

I don't agree that you got a new puppy, especially when the other two already have to be locked up so much................

But I will say that I LOVE the new puphouse, it is very cute :)

[Dekka]

Its a gorgeous dog house...very nice. And the pen is Ok but should really be a lot bigger. How long is pips chain? Can he/she move away from her bed to go potty? The place looks much cleaner...good for you.

[bubbatd]

You are trying hard and I commend you for that . I just don't see the sense of having 3 dogs kenneled outside . Do they ever get out to have fun ??

[sandman]

I don't think you read my last post properly. If you look at the 2nd photo, you will see that she can run all the way up there. Ben, the older one is never chained up, and my pup only stays in the pen at night or when im not here, otherwise she runs around with the older one. Doberluv she is chained up yes, but she has a wire run and can go through the paddock at will. Why should we re-home her when we have had her since she was 6 weeks old, wouldn't that make her unhappy? She is quite happy, tail alwaya wagging etc. I take them all the beach when I can for a run around. Which they all enjoy. I do spend alot of time with my dogs. They are all happy, i know it is hard for some of you to believe that a dog that spends most of its time outside can be happy but they are. Thank you to all who were kind and helpful. I think I have improved it alot.

[oc_spirit]

It looks a lot better!!!!!! I still recommend throwing out those water dishes and getting rid of the blankets though....I love the new doghouse!!!!!!

[summitview]

If I had an outside " pet " it would be a hen to lay eggs or a goat ( or sheep ) to clip my grass . To me domesticated animals deserve an indoor life and human contact .Exceptions : working dogs ... farm or sledding .
I am constantly saddened by the fact that people think that these "exceptions" are okay. My sled dogs are no less driven to work when kept inside, given toys, allowed on the couch, etc... My mother's herding dogs are also no less driven to work by being kept inside with all the same privileges. I pity the dogs of people who treat them like soulless machines put on this planet for nothing other than sport or work. :(

[summitview]

plus as for pips chain, i dont think you realize WHY she has a big chain on, which in fact is not that heavy at all! She is extremely good at breaking chains. Been through tons of them.
No wonder. I'd try to escape if I was in Pip's situation, too. :rolleyes:

One of my latest rescues, an Alaskan Husky I renamed "Khuno," has worn and filed down teeth from chewing on his chain in his previous neglectful home, trying to escape.

[sandman]

Like i said before, she can RUN ALL THE WAY UP A 5 ACRE PADDOCK!:mad: Why has no one taken that into account, i even posted a pic of it. She has lots of room to run around. She doesnt chew her chain and she isn't unhappy! She is perfectly happy, she goes to the beach and plays with my pup. And pip and indie love to share her doghouse during the day. She is a happy dog. She is inside with me and Indie atm, sleeping with her. OK i just want to say thank you to all who posted informatively. You really did help me.

[noludoru]

If she has a five acre secure paddock, take off the chain. :) It's like having a dog tied to a chair inside the house.. but saying she has the run of it. Pointless.

Things look a LOT cleaner, sandman. Great job cleaning! You did very well. :) There's still some hay hanging around, but I'm sure that will be easy to clean up. Pleas do throw away those bowls or scrub more, though, they aren't terribly clean still. :(

Sandman.. as to your dogs happiness or lack therof... please open your eyes. The situation is not a good situation for them, and you are on a forum of doglovers, most of us who would sooner live in the doghouse WITH our dogs than have them outside and uncared for. Most of us have our pets with us as much as physically possible, and spent vast amounts of money on them. I personally, will most likely be getting my cat a $1000 treatment to get his thyroid under control--I want him to have the BEST life possible, and if that means me finding a job (even if it's menial labor) because my parents don't want to pay it.. I will do so. He deserves to have the happiest life he can, and that means being healthy, happy, and treated like a king. The running joke in our house is that we are the cats' "slaves"... and it really is true. When it comes down to it, they get better treatment than I do. Nicer accessories, better health care, prepared food, spoiled rotten and loved beyond measure.

[LuvsDogs]

I've been reading through all the posts & I have to say that things are different in Australia. When I was a child all my dogs were outside dogs. Even the dog my husband had when we 1st married was an outside dog who slept in a wooden box under the house. Our next dog was also an outside dog (slept in a large wooden crate) until his last year of life, when I let him sleep inside on a rug.
My present dog, a 14 y/o Border Collie has always been an inside dog. When she was a puppy she slept in a box like the one in the pics, until she stopped chewing things up & I bought her a trampoline type bed which she still sleeps on. My son's 6 1/2 y/o dog slept in April's 'room' when she was a baby & he bought her a kennel to sleep in which she loved. She loves it inside & is now an inside dog. Both dogs sleep inside but go outside during the day unless its too hot, cold or raining.
I think the water bowl is an enamel bowl which has chipped, I don't think its dirty. Am I right?
I'm an obedience instructor at my local dog club & I'd say that at least 40% of dogs are still outside dogs. People are horrified when we suggest that they have their dogs inside & its easier to train a dog that lives inside.
Most Australian dogs have access to a back yard & are outside during the day. I didn't know people left their dogs inside all day when they went to work until I started going to dog obedience seminars in 2000. Most of the speakers have been American.
My son lives in the country with his partner & her 2 dogs live outside & so does his dog & there outside all the time.
You haven't told us why pip is chained all the time. Before my parents had fences they chained the dogs to their kennels at night.

[Brattina88]

I've been reading through all the posts & I have to say that things are different in Australia.
That doesn't make it any more right or wrong IMHO ;)

How you treat somebody is how you treat somebody. Whether its here or there

(or on a house, with a mouse?)
( Sorry... ROFLMAO )

[summitview]

That doesn't make it any more right or wrong IMHO ;)

How you treat somebody is how you treat somebody. Whether its here or there
My thoughts EXACTLY!

[noludoru]

Thank you, Brattina. LuvsDogs, in the future please don't support people mistreating their dogs. At least not on this forum. And no, the enamel dish is not chipped, it is FILTHY.

[sandman]

That doesn't make it any more right or wrong IMHO ;)

How you treat somebody is how you treat somebody. Whether its here or there

(or on a house, with a mouse?)
( Sorry... ROFLMAO )


Ok im going to settle this once and for all. We obviously have different opinions. So here it is. I am neither right or wrong. To you I am wrong but to me I am just doing what our family has always done. I love my dogs very much, we just dont baby them as much as some people. They all come inside alot, and stay outside at night. We live in a rural area and pip is still not to be trusted around sheep. That is why she is chained up. She is a hunting dog, so therefore likes to hunt. Also the council doesn't like dogs waundering around. Our fences are not secure for dogs, only horses. So this argument has to stop. I am not wrong, I just do things differently. thank you LuvsDogs for supporting me.

[dandandat]

My thoughts EXACTLY!

Yea, lets beat up on this person some more, I bet we can make them cry, what ya say who’s with me?

[dandandat]

If I had an outside " pet " it would be a hen to lay eggs or a goat ( or sheep ) to clip my grass . To me domesticated animals deserve an indoor life and human contact .Exceptions : working dogs ... farm or sledding .

Goats and hens are domesticated animals, they are not whiled animals.

[dandandat]

Ok im going to settle this once and for all. We obviously have different opinions. So here it is. I am neither right or wrong. To you I am wrong but to me I am just doing what our family has always done. I love my dogs very much, we just dont baby them as much as some people. They all come inside alot, and stay outside at night. We live in a rural area and pip is still not to be trusted around sheep. That is why she is chained up. She is a hunting dog, so therefore likes to hunt. Also the council doesn't like dogs waundering around. Our fences are not secure for dogs, only horses. So this argument has to stop. I am not wrong, I just do things differently. thank you LuvsDogs for supporting me.

Here's what you do love, you go tell your dad that the people from Chazhound are very agree with him and you. I bet that will make him reconsider the sleeping situation, after all it’s the people from Chazhound.

Dot let'm get to you ;) don’t over explain yourself ether. Once is enough. If they don’t want to listen that time, they won’t ever. You did a nice job with the dog house by the way, good job.

[noludoru]

I'm sorry you feel that way, Sandman. It's not a right/wrong issue, it's a humane issue.


By any chance you read my last post? And have you cleaned those bowls, yet?

[ACooper]

Goats and hens are domesticated animals, they are not whiled animals.

True............they are FOOD! I don't eat my dog, or anything that comes OUT of my dog! :rolleyes:

[jess2416]

Whats a Whiled animal :confused:

[Dekka]

Dandandat...I really don't get it...you agree dogs should sleep outside? That she shouldnt have cleaned up the dogs space (which looks great now)? What are you saying?

[Doberluv]

I know she probably should have been sleeping outside since I got her, buut it's winter here and she is a tad older now, so she has started sleeping outside. There should be no problem as she is now right next to my other 2 dogs who love her. She also has a nice comfy bed even with a hot water bottle in it. So why is she crying? She will do it for an hour or 2 then just go to sleep. So do I keep ignoring her? or do i go out when she is quiet and reward her for being that way? I'm not quite sure how to handle this one. My dad says that she will get over it and just go to sleep. But i cant help but worry about her. help please

Take another look at your original post Sandman. You came on a dog forum full of dog lovers, many of whom are experienced and educated in animal husbandry, behavior and many other aspects of the domestic dog.

As with just about any topic, you can go back through the ages and all the way up to the present time and see various changes in trends and attitudes toward things....all kinds of things. Science and technology, new studies and information of all sorts cause new ideas and practices in many areas, including dogs.

You asked a question and you got opinions. If you think you're doing the right thing and it's based on your family history and nothing else, and that is all that matters to you, then go with it, by all means. But why ask the question in the first place when you don't want to accept advice from experienced dog people? It's perfectly all right to have your own opionion, but don't blame the messengers for their opinions.

As it's been said, most of us realize that it is not your decision to make regarding your dogs. It's your parents'. I hope you don't still agree with them when you're on your own and have dogs.

However, you appeared to be concerned about why your puppy cries to this excessive degree. Then you added pictures of your other dogs living conditions, which you have tried to improve. That is a positive, to be sure.

I assure you, on the vast majority of dog forums, you'll find the same consensus. Attitudes and practices with dogs have changed over the years for many, many pet owners, from novice to experts. Sometimes it's good to take a look at new insights and leave the old behind in exchange for better ways. Another example of this would be in training trends.

But again, welcome to the forum and if you have a question, you may get some good advice. Whether or not you decide to take that into consideration is entirely up to you. But don't blame members here for their passion for animals. That is the nature of this forum.

mod note: [Dandandat: Please stay on topic and avoid attacking the members here with sarcasm. It is not contributing to the topic at hand.]

[LuvsDogs]

If I had an outside " pet " it would be a hen to lay eggs or a goat ( or sheep ) to clip my grass . To me domesticated animals deserve an indoor life and human contact .Exceptions : working dogs ... farm or sledding .

To me these dogs live on a small farm. Their kennels look as though they're in open sided sheds. Dogs have lived outside for centuries & still do in my country, it's just the way it is. As I said my dogs as a child lived outside & came in occassionally. My present dogs live inside, meaning they sleep inside & are outside in the day (their choice) or if no ones home. This poor girl has no choice.

[noludoru]

Whats a Whiled animal :confused:

I believe Dr. Seuss covers that in several of his books, Jess. ;)

[sandman]

are you saying my dogs are kept in-humanely? It is not cruel to keep a dog outside...I like this forum but in my original post I did only ask what I could do to prevent her from crying so much, not whether or not I was wrong to keep her outside or not. I have cleaned up and improved all of the dogs sleeping places, not just my own. I have tried and tried to get the approval of you all. Some of which have come around once I improved it, but it is still not good enough for some. My family has always brought dogs up outside. and when I have my own house, I probably will have my dogs inside, but for the moment, it is not my house...so I dont make the rules.

[Doberluv]

Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion about whether dogs are better off outside or inside with their family. You don't need the approval of every person on this forum or anywhere else, do you? People toss out their ideas and you can take what parts you like and leave the rest. A forum is a place to discuss opinions. Sometimes people get really passionate about their own ideas and that's just par for the course.

Again, yes...you did ask why she was cying so much. And it was explained why, which naturally led to the outside/inside debate. The reason she is crying is because she's an infant and alone outside without her family. Dogs are social animals and have evolved through domestication to be with humans and be with humans in a big, huge phenomenal way, unlike any other domestic animal. They get stressed and anxious when alone for long spells of time, especially a brand new puppy. Young dogs need the security of their human parent. Adult dogs can come to cope with longer spells of time alone. Puppies need more to thrive well and develop a sense of security, safety and a bond with their people. That prepares them to be secure and confident adults. (IMO)

And it was mentioned many times that people here realize that it is not your choice to make. But, a little information never hurt anyone. Maybe it will come in useful some day.:)

[dandandat]

True............they are FOOD! I don't eat my dog, or anything that comes OUT of my dog! :rolleyes:

Some people eat Dog.

[dandandat]

Whats a Whiled animal :confused:

I apologize, I am dyslexic and spelling is not one of my strong points. What I meant to write is wild animal. I would humble ask that people see past my disability, and please if you don’t understand something I have written, please ask me to be more clear. Thank you for your consideration.

[Zoom]

Some people eat People too.

[dandandat]

Dandandat...I really don't get it...you agree dogs should sleep outside? That she shouldnt have cleaned up the dogs space (which looks great now)? What are you saying?

I keep my dogs in side because I think that’s the right thing to do. But I am not judgmental and believe if this young lady loves and cares for her dogs it really doesn’t matter if they are inside our outside. Like humans, dogs can and do survive out door life, further dogs have lived out side for a long time in their history and are well adapted for it. You as their master still need to provided for them and make sure things are as good as they can be. But to judge this girl just because her dogs are outside is I believe wrong.

But that is neither here nor their, the real reason I disapprove of the behavior expiated in this thread is because all most all of the people involved have ganged up on this young lady, and for something that is really out of her control. She came her for advice, and while some gave it to her nicely others continued to harp on an issue that she can’t change and something that is not going to change any time in the future. This is called bullying.

What is worse is that this young lady has tired to do everything in her power to follow the instructions given to her. She’s cleaned up the back yard where her dogs sleep as is quite evident from the first pictures to the last. But people continue to bully her about the outside living issue.

[dandandat]

Some people eat People too.

Dogs are not people, no matter how much we would like to believe that they are. Societies are different around the world to some people dog is no different then goat or hen. They aren’t evil people because they do not prescribe to our societal norms.

This is no different then the outside living issue, it is clear this young lady lives in an different way then the people of this post do. To be prejudicial to her speaks ill upon those doing it not her.

[Zoom]

Perhaps so, but as the poster did come to us for advice, we gave her our best. It's true that there is a difference in cultural expectations about what is 'right' in dog care anymore, but it doesn't change the fact that dogs are still dogs the world 'round and they all have the same basic needs. I know the poster has made great strides in fixing up the areas and that's wonderful, we're just trying to tell her that there is still much to do. Right now it's adequate. It could be better, it was worse.

I'm personally not having so much of an issue with the sleeping outside than seeing an overweight dog on a chain. Even though there is apparently space to run, it's obvious the dog is not utilizing it. Most dogs aren't very good at self-exercising alone and I seriously doubt that chain is more than 30 feet long, which doesn't give much slack to get up a good run anyway. Same for the new pup. Good looking space, just very small to fulfill the exercise needs of a growing dog.

[dandandat]

Perhaps so, but as the poster did come to us for advice, we gave her our best. It's true that there is a difference in cultural expectations about what is 'right' in dog care anymore, but it doesn't change the fact that dogs are still dogs the world 'round and they all have the same basic needs. I know the poster has made great strides in fixing up the areas and that's wonderful, we're just trying to tell her that there is still much to do. Right now it's adequate. It could be better, it was worse.

I'm personally not having so much of an issue with the sleeping outside than seeing an overweight dog on a chain. Even though there is apparently space to run, it's obvious the dog is not utilizing it. Most dogs aren't very good at self-exercising alone and I seriously doubt that chain is more than 30 feet long, which doesn't give much slack to get up a good run anyway. Same for the new pup. Good looking space, just very small to fulfill the exercise needs of a growing dog.



I understand that, I saw no wrong with telling her one disagrees with her. I do see a problem with 5 pages of it though. She got the message the first three times it was posted. She said she wished it didn’t have to be that way, but it is not her choice to make, and so to continue to harp on it does no one any good. You also have to understand she has made 16 posts on this message board, while the rest of you have been friends for a long time. Intentional or not that comes off as bullying and its not very nice to her. This is even more important seeing that she has tired to listen to your advice and has done what she can, and I believe will continue to do what she can. She is young, and may not have the resources to make a supper dupper outside kennel for her dogs, she should not be judged for not doing so because of it.

Once again the chain is not in her control. If her father was posting here I would certainly be more tolerant if you all laid into him as you are doing to her, but he is not here and I think that has to be kept in mind.

Further I don’t think people are really listening to what she has said. She said the pup dog only sleeps in the dog house she set up for it. All other times it is which her. So your point about its exercise needs I don’t see it quite fitting the situation.

[Zoom]

Everything I would respond with right now is very far off topic and not helpful to the OP at all, so I'll just leave this to drop.

[Doberluv]

No one is attacking or bullying anyone. People gave their opinions about the situation. Opinions can be strong and passionate. That is what happens on a dog forum. If there were bullying, personal attacks etc, the staff here would step in. The discussion is within the guidelines of this forum....except with the argument about bullying....that is off topic. So, either lets resume the topic of the original post or not. Frankly, IMO, this thread has out lived it's usefulness.

[bubbatd]

^^^^^ agree !

[Denaluvscorgis]

Like i said before, she can RUN ALL THE WAY UP A 5 ACRE PADDOCK!:mad: Why has no one taken that into account, i even posted a pic of it. She has lots of room to run around. She doesnt chew her chain and she isn't unhappy! She is perfectly happy, she goes to the beach and plays with my pup. And pip and indie love to share her doghouse during the day. She is a happy dog. She is inside with me and Indie atm, sleeping with her. OK i just want to say thank you to all who posted informatively. You really did help me.

Still...she is chained up and that's no life for a dog. It's very sad!!! :( It can also be potentially dangerous if they were to get hung up on something.

I also realize that a lot of this is out of your control, but if you think about it like this: How would you like to be in that situation day after day. How would you like it? I don't think you would.

I know that you're trying very hard...I commend you for that, but like I said earlier....that is no life for a dog.:(

[sandman]

I think we should let this drop, I got some help, but I was more insulted about my dogs. This may have "outlived it's usefulness" as you say but lets not forget who made it into the huge deal that it turned out to be! I Didn't ask for this to become a fighting thread. I did say a while ago that it should be dropped. We all know that some people support sleeping outside and some don't so lets just leave it at that! Thanks to all who helped me.