how to stop vicios growling

[bordercollieshower]

Ok my border Collie Victoria hates other dogs and people<.> she is very vicouis she lips up her lip like a wolf is there anything to prevent her from growling?

[squirtsmom]

Aggression is not good. Hang on, I am sure one of the trainers will get on here and tell them what might help. Good luck.

[Dekka]

First of all there is no such thing as 'vicious' growling. Growling is a way a dog has of communicating. It is a way of avoiding conflict/aggression. A dog who growls is not going to nessisarily escalate to biting. The more a dog growls, but never bites the more self control it shows, and the more information it gives those around them about their state of mind (this is a good thing)

You do not want to so much as stop the growling as you need to resolve the underlying issues that are iliciting the growling. (never get mad at your dog for growling, you may teach the dog not to growl, but then when upset, she will be likely to bite without warning)

So more info needed. How old is the dog, and how long have you had her, how was she socalized when young. Does she growl at all dogs, all people?

[bordercollieshower]

Ok We got her when she was 8 weeks she is 3 years old and she was very sliliced when she was a puppy
but when she growl she looks like she is going to bite and that is why I think she is going to bit and when she growl all the people tell me to yell at her and hold he muzzle and when I hold her muzzle she growls harder and like snarels<.>

[dr2little]

You need professional help, period. Please do not yell at her or grab her muzzle. She is growling for a reason, even if the reason is as simple as she needs a stronger leader (not a physically stronger leader).

If you pm me your location, I can help you to find someone qualified in your area.

This is not something that can be addressed online except to tell you what NOT to do. Punishing the growl would fit into that category as would confronting her when she's growling.

Like Dekka said, there is an underlying reason for her to feel the need to growl and THAT is what needs to be addressed WITHOUT punishment.

[bordercollieshower]

Ok But do you know how to stop it?? also does barkbusters work??
My Dad always roughhoused with her when she was a puppy !

[Dekka]

Never ever ever ever ever ever ever do that to her when she growls...unless you want her to bite.

Is this recent? Has she always growled..and growling snarling and air snapping is a way to get the other animal to back off to not resort to biting.

Dogs who do this, do this out of fear. They are trying make the other dog/human back away. If you punish the fear it will only get worse.

Ok lets say you were afraid of men in black hats. Every time a scary man in a scary black hat came near you said "stay back", but he didn't seem to hear you, so you say it louder.. "Back off you are scaring me" still no one seems to notice you. Your beloved guardian also seems oblivious to this scary evil man in his hidious hat coming up to you. So now the man is right up to you and he reaches out to touch you (or you think he is going to touch you) so you scream "Stop it!! LEAVE me alone" Thank goodness he backs off a bit but your beloved guardian yells and grabs your face so you can't comunicate. Not only did she not protect you, she goes crazy on you when you try to protect yourself.

[Maxy24]

well don't grab her muzzle when she growls, that's going to get you bitten. Does she growl at everyone? Does she always do it? or does she do it when she is meeting someone new, when they try to touch her? There is something triggering her aggression/fear. What is her body language when she does this? Is her tail up or down, is her hair raised, are her ears flat or forward? Is she stiff or crouching? This will help us to know if she is growling out of fear or aggression. If she was not socialized then she just never learned about other people and dogs so reacts to them negatively, they are new and unpredictable to her. Don't punish growling, growling is how she tells you something is bothering her. If she can't growl then you get no warning before the bite, if you stop growling you are not getting rid of her feelings. You need to find out exactly what is causing her to growl and get a professional behaviorist to help you get your dog comfortable with people and dogs. If you don't do this chances are your dog will bite someone and have to be put down :(

Please PM dr2 your location so she can help you out. I wish you luck!

[Dekka]

Rough housing is not the cause...and stay far far away from bark busters. They are the sort who suppress, not teach. I personally have dealt with dogs who do this. A good trainer is the best.

But to start with don't let others come up to her. Pay attention to her body language, when she gets upset remove her from the situation. Keep her away from other dogs etc. Protect her so she can feel safe. If you walk her where there are other dogs you can take treats with you to distract her as they walk by. IE move off to the side as much as you can (even go on someones drive a foot or two) get her to sit and stuff cookies in her mouth as fast as she will eat them till the other dog passes.

[bordercollieshower]

She had done this her whole life and it is gotton realley worse!
ok I will stop holding her muzzle and stop yelling at her.
But can I say it is ok victoria the dog wont hurt you.

[dr2little]

Ok But do you know how to stop it?? also does barkbusters work??
My Dad always roughhoused with her when she was a puppy !

You can do much better than Barkbusters. They have a very cookie cutter, punishment based approach to address these kinds of issues. They are an organization who internally "trains" their staff.

Like I said, if you PM me your zip code and city/town, I can send you a list of properly trained people experienced with these types of issues.:)

[dr2little]

She had done this her whole life and it is gotton realley worse!
ok I will stop holding her muzzle and stop yelling at her.
But can I say it is ok victoria the dog wont hurt you.

No, you do not want to try to comfort her while she's in that state. Desensitizing her at a proper threshold (distance from what makes her uncomfortable) is the best direction to go with her but you'll need some help.

You should really just avoid all confrontation, anything that causes that reaction until you can talk to/see a trainer.

I'm leaving to take my dogs for a swim. I'll check back in a few hours.:)

[bordercollieshower]

My Mom wont let me because she says she dosent need that and I can't give my personall infor out sorry:[
Ok But is there anythin you know that will stop this!
I will stuff loads of cookies in her mouth!

[Dekka]

You can say that all you want..keeping her far far away from other dogs and stuffing small bits of cheese in her face is even better.

Dekka was very dog reactive. It was fear. She would go crazy and attack any strange dog that came near. So what I did was make sure she never got scared (to the best of my ability) and when she would notice a dog I would give her treats. I taught her a good watch me command. If a dog had to pass us, I would say, sit, watch me and feed her small yummy cookies constantly as the other dog walked by. She is much better now. She still doesn't like other dogs, but trusts me to protect her (so she doesnt' need to be on guard) and she has been greatly rewarded for being in the presence of other dogs. (if you met her at an agility trial you would never know she was dog aggressive-unless you asked if your dog could say hi)

A good trainer will help you teach these things and to really read her body language.

Oh and one more thing..make sure she isnt' doing the BC stare at the other dogs.

Will your parents buy books..we can reccomend some great books.

[bordercollieshower]

OK THank you all for helping me!
I am in 4-H and yes I just rang in my mind when she growl she is doing the bc stare is something that could be the problem! I will protect her always!

[Dekka]

now that is interesing... there is often a cyclical chain... BC stares at other dog..this is rude other dog takes defensive posture and glares back..BC now perceives threat and reacts (cause most BC have no idea staring at other dogs is rude, just like most retrievers don't know that jumping into an enthusiastic play bow in a strange dogs space is a faux pas)

[bordercollieshower]

when she approches a dog she is wagging her tail but all of a sudden she starts growling.

[Dekka]

so don't let her get close to them. Watch the other dogs body posture. Is that what she does to people to? All people, or just some people ie men?

[bordercollieshower]

Ok So will she ever stop growling???
Also She dosen like stangers

[otch1]

Hi there... as you're not in a position to make decisions for the family dog, your parents are, maybe you can encourage your mom to pm Dr2. Ask her to read some of Dr2s' posts. I understand a parent being concerned about their child soliciting training advice and giving out personal info over the internet, but your dog really does sound like it needs a professional trainer. I am always very hesitant to give training instruction for a dog like this, over the internet, as there's no way to properly evaluate the source of this behavior. Dr2 can give you some great referances, so encourage your mom to participate!! Good luck.

[Tazwell]

A professional trainer is definitely what she needs. I don't know how old you are, but like otch1 said, you're obviously not in a position to make the decisions for the dog, your parents are. No matter how much you want to help your dog.

The dog needs to see a professional trainer/behaviorist, In order to find the real problem and real solution. Otherwise, it sounds like you could possibly have a liability on your hands. For example, your dog is out walking with you, and slips off the lead, or maybe gets out of your yard. If your dog is truly aggressive, or dominant aggressive, then she may go attack somebody or something that provokes her unintentionally. Or possibly somebody could corner her accidentally, if she's fearful aggressive. Then you have a lawsuit on your hands, where you lose lots, and lots, and lots of money. And your dog will be put down.

Perhaps, maybe you can take a video of your dog doing what you're describing, and then somebody can try to analyze it here? That would be no replacement for professional help, but it's better than nothing.

[Dekka]

Does your local library have good dog books? If so grab books by people like Ian Dunbar, Suzanne Clothier, Jean Donaldson, (I am sure there are others) and see if you can get your parents to read them.

I agree that a trainer is very important. But I think while you convice your parents you need to keep your dog away from others, learn as much as you can on your own (here, books and by just watching other dogs), you already learned not to grab your dogs muzzle =o)

[bordercollieshower]

Thank you guys for all your help!
I will tape a video I have another border collie and they fight all the time likie bitting each others neck and other things. She dosent like little children she dosent like stangers at all. I new a friend for about 8 years and she still dosent like her and same with a friend that i known for 1 year and still dosent like her.I think it is fear bitting and but My friend jessica she has a Bitch and when she is near victoria water bowl she growls and tries to bite.

[mrose_s]

i'd get her to a trainer ASAP, if your dog is aggressive towards people, particularily children, if she gets too close and DOES bite someone then she'll get put down.

also, when the dogs "fight' are they playing or actually fighting? are they both the same gender? and are they desexed? dog fights are never fun and the lat thing you need is one of your dogs getting hurt

[bordercollieshower]

Well I dont know if they are play fighting beacasue i never let her get into dog fights. Yes she is spayed but my other one isnt beacasue he is doing shows:] I will find her body stuctures today at agility!

[Lizmo]

I'd recommend a trainer ASAP. This doesn't sound normal. I would also rule out nothing is wrong or causing her pain -- vet visit. Border Collies are social dogs. They will not act (like bitting or getting into a fight) unless they feel threatened, by anyone.

I think by holding her mouth and yelling at her when she growls, it's just made it VERY worse.

What are your parent's saying out this? Are they willing to do anything to help her? Has her growling/bitting just gotten worse, or has it always been the same?

[bordercollieshower]

Well my parents think she is fine! she is very atteched to me over this year and everytime I try to pet a dog i have to give her to my mom or she will growl! She wagges her tail and growls and then the tail stops when the dog looks at her!

[Lizmo]

Hmm, I think this is too serious to handle over the internet. You really need a trainer/behaviourist. If left untreated you could have some serious damage done to a child/adult/dog.

[bordercollieshower]

Ok Thank you!
I will see her action when she growls and tell you I will try to keep her attetion be a sceakie tennies ball and see if that works.
I really want to help her!