Can't Even List All the Problems...HELP PLEASE!!!

[EGilson0606]

New to Chazhounds...but in desperate need of help. I adopted a 1 1/2 year old Australian Cattle Dog from a rescue organization. When we first met, he just seemed like a really mellow quiet dog amidst all the other barkers surrounding him, but soon came to realize that he is absolutely terrified of everything. He is extremely people shy. He is totally great with me, and my roomate as well as friends. He is a total love with us, extremely easy to train, and loyal, but there are some things that he can't just seem to get past.

I suspect previous abuse, as he is extremely fearful of people he doesn't know, especially men. Once he gets to know you he will love you forever but he hasn't seem to have come in contact with many of my guy friends so he isn't socialized. It is extremely hard to socialize because he will not voluntarily go outside. It is too the point where I have to physically pick him up to take him outside (and he isn't small) to use the bathroom. He won't mess in the house, he almost seems to hold it until I take him to the park, which he loves but is the only place he will poop. He will pee at my apartment, but is extremely anxious and runs back to the door to get back in the house.

He has also become extremely protective of certain places in the house. One his crate and the other under my bed. I have cats which have learned to tolerate him, but he will run under the bed if any of the cats even go into that room. Tonight was the reason I had to write, because I am house sitting a cat for my sister, because there was no one to look after her, which has caused stress on everyone, and this cat who seems to be fearless, went under the bed, and Dakota attacked her (which he has never done) especially since he has been the best with this cat so far. I honestly was ready to take an emergency vet visit because this poor cat was wailing with the most distressed cries I have ever heard that I was ready to pick up the box she was hiding under and see her leg missing or something. Thankfully she was ok but I was almost in tears. I can understand stress, but it has gotten to the point where it is NOT ok. I was wondering if I should not let him be under the bed. He has gotten to the point where he barely comes out from under there. He doesn't really even go in his crate anymore which was his original protective sanctuary.

I know this thread is long, but if there is anyone willing to sit through the whole thing, PLEASE HELP...I am in no way going to give up on this shy, sensative little guy, and there is no way he is going back since he has been in and out of so many homes, but some things have to change. Please help me.

[Martine]

I know you will get plenty of good advice here. I'm not sure how much help I can be as I'm still a relatively newbie dog owner but I wanted to give you my support. Misha displayed many of the traits you described for Dakota - i.e. scared of men, scared of outside, terrified of raised hands, flys swats, rolls of paper, anxious about strange noises, etc...we suspect some form of abuse. After 5 months she is improving so much but sometimes goes through bad phases quite inexplicably. It is like we have two dogs, a normal crazy airedale & then sometimes this dog that hides in the corner and ignores the world. I think time and patience are your best friends here, and I wish big hugs to you both.

[Doberluv]

I think time and patience are your best friends here, and I wish big hugs to you both.

What sage advice there. Someone who's been through something like this and has gotten some positive results is often the very best helper you can find. Maybe Martine can tell you some of the specifics of how she handled certain situations and how she helped her dog overcome some of his fears.

It's so sad when you see a dog (and especially when it's yours) that has been abused and/or not socialized. It is such a long road to go down to try to improve the quality of that dog's life. You probably feel like you have to walk on eggshells to not further worry the dog, and you do, sort of.

First of all, seperate the cat and dog at all times. Don't stress out either one of them. The cat needs it's own space. Worry about getting him OK with cats at a later time.

Your first thing, I would guess is to take one thing that he's afraid of at a time. Once he sees that he can trust what you tell him, he'll begin to trust you about many things. BUT...this is sad, but important: If he had hardly any socialization as a pup or was severely abused as a tiny pup, he may never be normal. But at least you can help him to be better....I think.

I will leave the rest of this up to Creature Teacher. She's a real trainer and I bet she'll have some specifics for you.

I feel for you and your dog. Don't despair. Things can only get better because you're going to get some help. Hang in there.

[EGilson0606]

Thank You both for all your help. He truly is an amzing dog and has put a lot of happiness in my life, but it just saddens me how much he is STILL hurting from his past. I have had him for about 3 months now, and I have seen a lot of improvement. He is great at the park...and he has even met some nice ladies that he let pet him, which is totally unusual. The sweetest part about it is that when he is scared at the park sometimes, he will sit in my lap, (he really believes he's a 50 lb lap dog) and he became so comfortable with one of these ladies I had met maybe 20 minutes before, that he sat in her lap, and showed the love he has for me to someone that he had just met, for he knew that I wouldn't let him get hurt, and he knew that she wouldn't hurt him.

He is not a total crazy. He is great with commands and everything, I just need help with the possesiveness and the fear of going outside. Its wierd because once I get him outside and he knows we are going to the park he is absolutely fine, and is great at the park, very social with other dogs, (loves to be chased) but its that fear of getting through the door without me pushing him out. Also it is very hard for him to ever walk on the street, especially on a leash. I really can't take him anywhere except the park, because he is way to scared. I do live in an apartment which is sort of hard because he doesn't have a yard, but I am a college student and I do think he is ok with it. I do take him to the park, at least twice a day, and sometimes more, because I love it as well as him.

Don't get me wrong, he has his issues that will work out in time, and I hope CreatureTeacher can help a little, but he really is a outstanding dog, just with a little quirks. Thanks again for all your help, and I know if Dakota could he would say thank you too.

[mrose_s]

with the "scared if poeple" thing. i would try taking him out onto the front nature strip, footpath, sidewalk or whereever. and asking your friends to just walk past, and wait for others to walk past aswell. sorry, i didnt explain that at all well.

sit out the front
get a couple of friends to walk ast (ppl that he knows)
and then wait for stranges to walk by, introduce them if they would like and then let them leave

and remeber, dont you, or anyone else praise him or show him excessive comfort when he is scared, it only reinforces the behaviour.

[mrose_s]

The sweetest part about it is that when he is scared at the park sometimes, he will sit in my lap,

lol, buster is a ACD X and he sits on our laps all the time, its his attention seeking thing, or when he is cold, lol

[poodlesmom]

It sounds as tho you are doing a great job so far and making strides in helping him overcome his painful past.

I may be off but I think the reason he attacked the cat when it came under the bed is because he felt trapped with no easy access to escape. I agree with the prior post to keep them separated when you aren't there to completely supervise.

Time, patience and consistency together with your love is what is going to help him continue gaining his confidence.

As far as helping him overcome his fear of going thru the door to go outside one thing you can try is find a super treat that he absolutely loves and use it to entice him thru the door with lots of praise. If he loves playing with a particular toy you could even incorporate that into your going out routine. In time he will come to realize going thru the door is a good experience. Save the special treat or toy for these sessions.

Whenever you work on desensitizing a furpal to any particular thing the key is to go slow. If you feel he is improving don't make a big jump expanding on the action or you'll be back to step one all over again. Slow increments work best.

Many years ago I rescued a Great Dane who was very fearful of men and absolutely terrified of men who had a hat on due to the jerk who previously owned & abused him. It was a long slow process helping him overcome it but he eventually did. It takes many positive experiences for them to overcome their past bad experiences.

He is lucky to have you & I am sure with your dedication he will continue to make great strides. I am sure Creature Teacher will have excellent advice for you that will help tremendously.

[Doberluv]

Whenever you work on desensitizing a furpal to any particular thing the key is to go slow. If you feel he is improving don't make a big jump expanding on the action or you'll be back to step one all over again. Slow increments work best.

Excellent advice! I like that whole post Poodlesmom.

[oriondw]

Dog parks are a pretty crappy place to take him to. Just say no to Dog parks, there is very little good that comes from them.

Im sure he will poop if you take him for a nice long stroll. You'll see more people that way as well.

[EGilson0606]

Thank you all of you!! I love this forum!! In response to the dog park thing...I do not take him to the designated "dog park" He does not like it at all, because there are too many dogs, and he gets distracted on who to play with, and just kinda stands there. We take him to the local park where there are all sorts places for him to run around, with a stream, and others people bring their dogs, but it's so big that there is so many places to be without everyone compacted in a small fenced area with a million dogs. He loves it there. He is slowly improving, even with the cat. He really loves her, because she is the only cat in the house (we have three others) that wants to play with him. He has gotten so much better since we first got him.

Does anyone have any advice on how to get him out of the house without having to PHYSICALLY remove him? Thanks again everyone for your interest and concern with my sweet pup. I've tried to put a picture of him on so you guys can see this cute little guy, but it won't upload right...i'll figure it out. Take care you all.

[bubbatd]

Time and patience !!! Associate the going out with fun or food. A favorite toy, a sqeaky thing in your pocket , a favorite treat . Clip on the leash at the door with the distraction ....once outside give him a treat ....keep us posted !!

[oriondw]

When my pup doesnt want to go with me.

I just call few of my family members and when he see's 2-3 of us leaving the house he will rocket toward us wanting to go. Pack thing, pack goes, he goes :)

[Renee750il]

I'd like to suggest that maybe it's time to start cutting down on his space under the bed. Do it gradually, adding boxes or whatever will fit under the bed on one side, gradually reducing the space under the bed. Do it in a straight line, from one end of the bed to the other so you don't leave a corner space where he can feel trapped in the corner, just reduce the amount of space under the bed. Hopefully, as the space declines, he'll learn to depend on it less and less. Do let him use the room as a safe space. No loud noises in the room, no one he doesn't know and trust in that room when he's in there. When he's under the bed, try sitting down on the floor where he can see you and play with a favorite toy to distract him from his distress.

Soft voices and gentle movements will make a big difference in his life. Pleasant distractions when he's stressed will go a long way too. When there is someone new or untrusted around have a favorite treat or toy handy and get him distracted. Just remember, he is a cattle dog and they are observant by nature. You can use that to your advantage.

[EGilson0606]

Thanks all...Bubbatd that sounds excellent, I think a lot of the problem, is that I am ready to take him out to the park, or to go to the bathroom, and I am unpatient, and I just want to go, (a lot of the time, because I want him to have his happy time at the park, as well as I am ready so He needs to be ready too, which is kind of selfish) I think your advice is great, and I know it's going to be frustrating at first, because a lot of the time, he is not even interested in the treat or he will take it and run right back in the crate. He is a very good learner with commands, especially because I have worked with him a lot, and he trusts me a lot. With this "situation" I haven't spent the time with him. I will give that a try, and keep you posted. Thanks again to everyone.

As well as the bed thing...to Renee...I totally agree with that advice, That was what I was thinking with the boxes, but I wasn't really sure how to go about it. That sounds perfect...He is usually ok, but lately I haven't been ok with the protectiveness seen there. The cats have learned not to go under there...but there has been situations, like when I had given him a greenie, and I noticed he hadn't chewed on it, so I grabbed it to give it back to him, and he nipped at my hand, (not hard, did not even hurt), but I am NOT ok with that kind of reaction. It was definetly fear based, as if I was going to take it from him, but I do not like some of the way he acts when around there, or under there. He seems to be so stressed that someone (cat or me) is going to go under there. He acts like a solider that is patrolling his bunker and would die for the cause.

He used to act like that in his crate...The one we got him was smaller, and he seemed to outgrow it, but he was very strange and EXTREMELY protective over it. We got him a bigger one, and I desensitized him from his fears of someone taking it from him, by getting in there with him (It was big enough for both of us to fit) and now he is not very protective over it, (he barely seems to go in there anymore, except at night when I give him his treat to go to bed, or if I'm gone, sometimes he will be in there). Anyway...the point of this whole story is that I can't really get under the bed with him, but I think the advice about being near him and petting him, and showing that that area doesn't just belong to him is good, as well as the training with the boxes.

You guys are all great!! I wish I could be of more help to you all...I am a fairly new dog owner, (i had a dog when I was a kid at home) but this is the first time he's been my responsibility, so I know a lot, but nothing you guys probably don't already. Anyway...thank you again. I am so appreciative that there are people that care enough about others and love their animals as much as I do, that they are willing to take the time to care about my pooch. Big hugs from Me and Koda.

[Renee750il]

I'm sure your going to make many good contributions here! There are always less experienced dog owners who need advice, and sometimes those of us long-time dog people run up against something new that others have dealt with before. It's a place to share our experiences, good and frustrating, our joys and heartbreaks.

I think you and Koda are going to do well. Keep us posted! :D

[bubbatd]

You'll do fine because you care !!! Let us know !

[Martine]

He is not a total crazy. He is great with commands and everything, I just need help with the possesiveness and the fear of going outside. Its wierd because once I get him outside and he knows we are going to the park he is absolutely fine, and is great at the park, very social with other dogs, (loves to be chased) but its that fear of getting through the door without me pushing him out. Also it is very hard for him to ever walk on the street, especially on a leash.

Misha was just like this - and sometimes still is.....she has a big fear of going through doors, full stop. One thing I've tried which seems to be help is making her sit before we go through the door, walk through myself, and then call her through with loads of encouragement and praise at the other side. That works mainly if she is on the lead though, if she is not on the lead, 7 times out of 10 she still will not go through the door. But we keep practising :)

Good luck - look forward to sharing how you get on.

[EliNHunter]

Dog parks are a pretty crappy place to take him to. Just say no to Dog parks, there is very little good that comes from them.

Im sure he will poop if you take him for a nice long stroll. You'll see more people that way as well.

Huh? Why do you say this? I think dog parks are a wonderful environment to socialize your dog. Hence their reason to be getting so popular. Yes, there may be altercations, but that's how dogs (and OWNERS) learn. Not sure where you're coming from on this one. Maybe you just had a bad experience at a dog park near you.
???

[EliNHunter]

Dog parks are a pretty crappy place to take him to. Just say no to Dog parks, there is very little good that comes from them.

Im sure he will poop if you take him for a nice long stroll. You'll see more people that way as well.

In re-reading your post, it sounds like you take your dog to a dog park for the sole purpose of crapping. Just wanted to let you know, that's not their sole purpose. It is to socialize your dog and exercise them on the equipment if you wish.

[CreatureTeacher]

I suspect previous abuse, as he is extremely fearful of people he doesn't know, especially men. Once he gets to know you he will love you forever but he hasn't seem to have come in contact with many of my guy friends so he isn't socialized.

Hi EGilson, welcome to the boards! I haven't read through everyone else's responses, so I apologize if I say something that's already been said.

It's definitely a possibility that your new buddy took some hard hits in his life, but it sounds like he's in a great place now. I have found over and over again that owners tend to hang onto a dog's past for much longer than the dog does. I worked recently with a nice woman and her standard poodle, Bosley (ha ha!). Bosley had been pulled from an abusive home by a breed rescue, and boy did this woman make sure he knew it. She was almost reverent toward Bosley, who is a happy-go-lucky two-year-old poodle. The owner would become stressed and upset when Bosley was excited or uncomfortable, and Bosley picked up on it and went nuts when she worried. It was almost like a cycle of stress for them, until they were both beside themselves with stress. The woman has the absolute best intentions for her dog, and wants nothing more than his happiness now to make up for his bumpy past. This is sort of an extreme example, but I do find that folks tend to treat their dog differently if they suspect abuse, and that sometimes can lead to further problems. You may want to step back and consider your reactions to his stress just to be certain you're not contributing to it. I hope that doesn't sound nasty at all. But sometimes our best intentions can cause problems. Just something to think on!

It is extremely hard to socialize because he will not voluntarily go outside. It is too the point where I have to physically pick him up to take him outside (and he isn't small) to use the bathroom. He won't mess in the house, he almost seems to hold it until I take him to the park, which he loves but is the only place he will poop. He will pee at my apartment, but is extremely anxious and runs back to the door to get back in the house.

That's a pretty severe demonstration of anxiety. Poor little guy! My best thought here is to make going outside as fun and relaxed an experience as possible. See if you can't lure him out with some cheese or a hot dog. Try leaving the door open and go out yourself, and pretend you're having just a fabulous time. Show him there's nothing to fear. Let him follow when he's ready. Then, when he does set even a foot outside, let him know what a great dog he is and allow him to either return inside or come out, whichever he'd prefer. Don't pressure him too hard; this will take some time. When you're able, take him in and out the door a few times a day without actually going anywhere. Show him that stepping over the doorframe is not in itself an event. No big deal. Once he's comfortable crossing the threshhold, see what you can do to make the yard a fun place for him. It sounds like he might really enjoy just sitting under a tree with you. Again, show him it's just not as big a deal as he's come to believe. Relaxed and happy will be the key. In any case, avoid carrying him in and out whenever possible. It's absolutely preferable over dragging him, but any time you can talk him into doing it himself you'll take a step closer to resolving that anxiety.

He has also become extremely protective of certain places in the house. ... and this cat who seems to be fearless, went under the bed, and Dakota attacked her ... I can understand stress, but it has gotten to the point where it is NOT ok. I was wondering if I should not let him be under the bed. He has gotten to the point where he barely comes out from under there. He doesn't really even go in his crate anymore which was his original protective sanctuary.

This again sounds to me like compounding anxiety. Like he's getting less stable, not more so. Another little bit of "no big deal training" (I'm thinking of writing a book! lol ;) ) is probably in order here. I wouldn't prevent him from being under the bed, because you can see how that may just compound his stress further. Just do what you can to show him that a) it's not that much fun under the bed, and b) look how much fun it is out here! Again, come up with some treats, toys, or activities that you know he really loves. Reward him for being a brave dog and for NOT protecting his "spot" under the bed. You can also try slowly desensitizing him to you being under the bed as well. See if he'll share his spot with you. Reward him if he does. This will shift the place in his mind from "mine" to "ours", which is important in keeping him from getting too possessive.

I am in no way going to give up on this shy, sensative little guy, and there is no way he is going back since he has been in and out of so many homes, but some things have to change.

You're really a wonderful person for saying that. Dogs are so disposable today. If they don't behave, you take them back and get a different one. The doggy gods will bless you for sticking it out with Dakota. :) I know he'd say thank you if he could understand what you're doing. I honestly think that time will be your best teacher here. Try to stay happy and relaxed and let him know that he can be too, if he wants. I think by this time next year you two will be like peas in a pod. The methods you use to train are secondary to your actual willingness to do right by him. I know you will do well!

Emma

[Doberluv]

Awesome advice! I wish you the best with this dog. I can just imagine and relate to what CT says about walking on egg shells too much with this guy. Of course, you don't want to frighten or overwhelm him, but I like that what she said about the happy go lucky, no big deal attitude. It is a great one to use with animals when they're afraid or balking at something. I used it on horses even and it works wonders.

Keep us posted on how things go. Best of luck. He'll be fine!

[oriondw]

Huh? Why do you say this? I think dog parks are a wonderful environment to socialize your dog. Hence their reason to be getting so popular. Yes, there may be altercations, but that's how dogs (and OWNERS) learn. Not sure where you're coming from on this one. Maybe you just had a bad experience at a dog park near you.
???


In re-reading your post, it sounds like you take your dog to a dog park for the sole purpose of crapping. Just wanted to let you know, that's not their sole purpose. It is to socialize your dog and exercise them on the equipment if you wish.

No, :rolleyes:


Do people cant read here? This is like 3rd time people read into what I write at completely wrong angle.

Dog parks are bad. Reason being, most of the dogs that go there have been locked up for hours, have not been trained, and their owners dont care for them enough to look after them.

There are dogs there that hate puppies, that hate big dogs, that hate furry dogs, you name it. You cant controll all the dogs. While the idea is great, the implementation is terrible.

People break rules, bring dogs in heat, bring aggressive dogs, bring small agressive dogs to big side of park, etc.

The only time I ever go to dog parks is when I find people I know who go there, and I know every dog there so its a controlled environment.

In the end, 1 bite can ruin your whole socialization process and you might never be able to fix it depending on how impressionable your dog is.

It is MUCH better to socialize your pup with dogs you know and people you know.

[Doberluv]

When you socialize a young puppy, it is extremely important that they don't have even one frightening experience. They do NOT learn anything positive from that. All they learn is that going out into the world is very scary. They must have lots of experiences which are pleasant to teach them that going out is a good thing, that friendly strangers are a good thing, that any enviornment or ground surface is just fine. They learn confidence which is necessary to a dog's emotional health.

A dog park can be just loaded with dogs and dogs who are not supervised or under control. That's way too much for a puppy. It is not natural for a pup or any dog to be thrown into the midst a bunch of dogs he doesn't know and who isn't his pack or family. It is much, much better to introduce him to one or two dogs whom you know are friendly and healthy. Then when he is old enough, you can increase this socialization with a small group in a puppy class with a good trainer and where the dogs are controlled and supervised, so to avoid any bad experiences. When they have had the foundation of a gradual getting use to things, then they are more ready for more and can withstand a small negative occurance. But still, you want to prevent anything overwhelming to them.

[EGilson0606]

Quote:
Originally Posted by EliNHunter
In re-reading your post, it sounds like you take your dog to a dog park for the sole purpose of crapping. Just wanted to let you know, that's not their sole purpose. It is to socialize your dog and exercise them on the equipment if you wish.


I do not bring him to the dog park to just crap. I tried it out a couple of times because I thought he would like to play with the other dogs. Yes I take him to the other park to crap, but that isn't the sole reason for that either. Mainly I take him to our local park because he is the happiest I ever see him. At the designated dog park "dog park" he was very stressed and distracted, many dogs were aggressive, and also some seemed to be sick, and seemed very unhappy there...he is very friendly with other dogs, (he loves to be chased, because he is so fast and likes to show off) but he just can't seem to relax in that fenced in area, where there are so many dogs, that he cannot really run around without being nervous. EliNHunter I can understand what your saying, and I hope I was able to explain my actions here. I take him to our local park where there are plenty of dogs to socialize with, in a much bigger area. Our dog park doesn't have any trees, and no grass. So he likes the other park where he can be chased by dogs, and roll in the grass, play near the stream, and play soccer with me!

[EGilson0606]

This is sort of an extreme example, but I do find that folks tend to treat their dog differently if they suspect abuse, and that sometimes can lead to further problems. You may want to step back and consider your reactions to his stress just to be certain you're not contributing to it. I hope that doesn't sound nasty at all. But sometimes our best intentions can cause problems. Just something to think on!
[QUOTE]

I don't know if this is how you quote, but anyway In response to Creature Teacher...when I first got him, I was very kinda nervous about him thinking that I was going to abandon him...which I realized re-enforced behavior. I quickly learned that this was not the way to go, because he had already fallen in love, and would never leave my side. I also found that being tougher on him, (but not mean)...Like not treating him for default commands, rather than the one I was asking, (if i asked him to lay down, and instead he would shake)...than he would learn better. Now he can do every command I ask him, and learns remarkably fast. Also he cries at night because he sleeps in the other room...the reason for this is that I want the cats to have their safe place in my bedroom, I blocked off a section with a baby gate so the cats can still get into that area and have their food and litter, and a place to run if Dakota gets playful and wants to chase, (which they don't mind)...where he can't get into. Anyway, he sleeps in the other room.

At night sometimes he will cry, and I use to rush to him to calm him down. Ignoring him was the best thing he could learn...he is mostly good now, sometimes he will cry. Anyway through all this, I have learned that Dakota feels very safe with me, because he knows that I am "alpha dog." And that I will keep him safe. Its a big difference with my roomate and I because she still kind of "mothers" him, and he doesn't listen to her as much.

With the going outside thing...when I use to tell him that we were going to the park he would jump up so happy and run outside...recentley My roomate went home to New York for a visit, and I would take him to the park just me. (we all usually go together because we all love the park). While she was gone, Dakota decided that it was not fun to go with just me, and wouldn't come when I told him...so now he is just being a little brat...which was cute at first, but it getting a little old. Your advice about the hot dog and all that sounds good, because I want him to go outside to use the bathroom willingly and not just because were going to the park. Thank You Creature Teacher...I have heard a lot about you from the other posters and I get the idea you have given a lot of good advice (seeing that you are a trainer) and that you and your opinion is thought very highly of. And to all of the others, your advice/opinions are equally as important, with or without proffessional training, because we have all had our experiences. Thank you all for investing time in my little guy. I know that him and I will have very many happy years ahead...because even with the quirks, he is the sweetest most loyal dog I have ever known. And I guess being a new dog owner, where he is actually my responsibility gives me that feeling. I'll keep you all posted on how the training goes.

[CreatureTeacher]

Thanks for the kind words. I think you're doing a great job already. Your thinking seems to be very sound in the way you interact with Dakota. The fabulous bond you have is your reward! :) For a new owner, you're doing such a wonderful job. So many people just don't bother. Take care of Dakota and give him huggles from all of us!

[EGilson0606]

An update for you all...as for the going outside thing...I tried some cheese. I brought him into the kitchen with me, because he can sense when I am trying to "trick" him to go outside. I gave him a piece there, (in the kitchen) which he LOVED!! He was putty in my paws...I took him by the collar...and he followed me right out the door, even though he had already nudged his little face into my hand eating all the cheese I had...before we even got out. Very Cute. I have tried treats with him before, but nothing this yummy, they are usually just meaty dog treats. I have always kinda worried, because the second night I had him we had to make a emergency vet visit cause he would not stop throwing up...so he has a sort of sensative stomach...I have integrated more into his diet so that his tummy will stop being so weak...meat and stuff. Cheese is ok on a dogs tummy right??

Also I know that this is totally off topic...but I have read about feeding raw meat. I have never wanted any of my animals to eat raw because of all the bad stuff that can happen to us...I don't know how it affects them ...I know to freeze and everything beforehand...but I have heard that this is something that is Important for them to have...is this true...and should I be giving him it...and how much.

[CreatureTeacher]

Cheese is an amazing thing. It can be kind of tough on the tum until they get used to it. But I know any number of dogs who would step over their own mothers for cheese, so use your new knowledge wisely, my son! :)

Check out the "Recipes" forum for lots of raw food threads. Talk to Mordy to learn more about diet. And there's an excellent book called Dr. Pitcairn's Complete Guide to Natural Health for Dogs and Cats that has a TON of info about feeding raw. I'm not a doggy nutritionist, but I've been feeding raw meat for years and I do notice a definite change not only in dogs' health, but in their behavior as well. Chronically high-strung dogs tend to really cool down. This makes sense to me; if I ate something that was nutritionally deficient every day for years, I might go a little nuts, too. Here's a copy of an e-mail I exchanged with another user. Just my experience:
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Hey hon!

The deal with veggies is that dogs can't produce cellulase, which is the enzyme that breaks down plant matter in the digestive system. If you feed them veggies, you have to mush them up in a food processor to break up the plant's cell walls or the animals will get no nutrition whatsoever from them. Go easy on the veggies, though. They aren't a large part of a natural diet. 2-3 servings a week of veggies is plenty. Don't cook anything, including the vegetables. Cooking just leaches out all the good stuff. Sweet potatoes are great for cleaning teeth and keeping breath nice, and most dogs tend to enjoy them. I grind up whole carrots with the green tops, too. You can also give parsley, alfalfa sprouts, zucchini, broccoli, and peas. There are some veggies that can make dogs very sick, though, so be careful.

Grains are very bad for a dog's digestive system. As a person who loves bread, I have trouble imagining life without grains. But because of the way their bodies work, grain slows down the whole digestive process and causes a food traffic jam in their intestines. (Case in point: my dogs, who never get grains, don't fart! And they don't have that doggy smell either.)

As for the meat, don't forget about pork and buffalo in addition to poultry and some fish. And don't just feed muscle, either. Feed organs and connective tissue when you can find them. Give liver, hearts, tripe, and any really yucky thing you can find that's "clean" like eyes and other organ tissue. Variety is the key to keeping your dogs healthy, so try to give something different as often as you can. Don't worry about mushing up meat or bones. They're perfect just the way they are. As for cleaning teeth, from what I understand only non-load-bearing structural bones (like ribs, tail vertebrae, wings, etc.) have the density to clean teeth to any real effect. But they have different mineral contents than bones like femurs, so some of each is good.

For supplements, again variety is important. I give organic bone meal, vitamin C & E, torula yeast powder, kelp, vegetable oil, eggs (whole with shell), and the occasional bit of cheese as needed. (Dairy is bad for them, but most dogs would step over their own mothers for cheese.) I give yogurt once or twice a month, too.

I give my cats bits of game hen or little chunks of pork, bones and all. They love it. They eat it just as fast as the dogs do. I don't give them any vegetables at all, but they get a lot of the same supplements plus lecitin.

Everyone also fasts one day a week, with only water and veggie mush.

Hope this helps! Let me know if you have any other questions!
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[CreatureTeacher]

Here's a link to another raw food thread:
http://www.chazhound.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2548

(Can you tell I'm reasonably passionate about this? :D )

[EGilson0606]

Yes I can tell you are reasonably passsionate, as am I...He has a weak tummy and I want him to get use to eating more stuff thats good for him without being afraid of him puking all over the house like he did before. I have been feeding him more and different things, whether its a hot dog and stuff...but I was hesitant because I use to make eggs in the morning for my breakfast, and wanting to spoil him, I would cook him one too (I was unaware of the whole raw thing), and I would tell that he felt sick the rest of the day (you know tired and mopey) so I stopped, but your advice sounds good, because I want to get him the proper nutrition he needs. Thanks again and I will check out that link.