Saarloos wolfhound

[lunarview4]

Im looking for a breeder that has Saarloos wolfhounds but the only one i can find is in Norway now granted that I am not traveling to Norway are there any breeders near Nashville.

[Renee750il]

That's a new breed on me! You may have to explore the possibility of importing one. What are they like, and what made you decide that was the breed of dog you want?

[lunarview4]

Saarloos Wolfhounds are patient, strong, and need a fair amount of exercise. The breed strongly resemble wolves ,but are not wolves. Its an uncommon breed.
these dogs were first created to improve the dog stock (A step, not the second floor)
The enjoy to play early in life but lose interest later in life though they still like attention. As a Nordic Breed they are mostly found in Scandinavia (Finland, Norway, Sweden, Iceland). and at that very few breeders of the Wolfhound exist there. Anyway the wolfhound must never allowed to win any game ,Because "in his mind" the order of the pack could change. Very patient with children. Patient enough to miss a daily walk once a week.

Oh and I like a dog with an easy temperment ,a good wolf look ,and a can good friend.

[Renee750il]

They sound like really neat dogs. I haven't had a chance to check yet, but I go to a couple of sites on rare breeds and molossoids, so I'll look there to see if there's anything, and I'll also get back to you with the addresses (which I can't remember off the top of my head right now, except for www.molosserdog.com - or is it www.molosserdogs.com ?)

[scout1]

that breed had also caught my eye many years ago. i do believe that wolves were used in developing the breed. i have read that they are unheard of outside the netherlands so i don't think you will get one unless you travel there.

[wolfdoggy]

Saarloos Wolfhond is supposed to be looked upon as a dog. But it is not a normal dog. It is a hybrid, a wolfdog. It is part wolf and part German Shepherd. It is not just a northern breed, and thinking that is a mistake.

If you want a wolfdog like this, you will have to read about the breed from other Saarloos owners. Do a Google search on Saarloos Wolfhound (wolfdog, wolfhond). It will also be highly recommended to read about all kinds of Wolfdogs (Wolfhybrids). Their behavior, and how to treat them.

They are companions, and not pets.

[stirder]

last I heard there were only 6 known sarloos wolfhounds in the united states, all imported and there hasnt yet been enough interest in the breed for anyone to try to qaulify as a breeder, therefore those imported dogs are all neutered/spayed. the breed was developed by Leendert Sarloos in the early-mid 1900's, he died in 1969. he crossed canadian and siberian wolves with german shepherds. the sole purpose of the crossing was to try to eliminate hip displasia. the problem was that wolves can also develop hip displasia, and they didnt understand genetics at the time and some of the german shepherds used in the breedings either had hip displasia or produced it in their offspring. also he was not breeding for temperment or working ability, only crossing wolves with german shepherds. it IS a recognized breed, by the dutch kennel club, due to the fact that he used many wolves and many gsd's, and didnt continue cross breeding the offspring of every generation back to purebreds of either breed.
they do not differ from any other wolf dog though, in any way. they are very shy, very independent, very aloof, and have a very strong pack instinct. due to their nature of not being a very tractable/trainable dog wich are very prone to becoming fear biters, they have not become popular even in the netherlands. what little I know about them is from reading and from talking about them with a friend of mine who lives in Belgium and breeds german shepherds.
and as far as looks, the majority of them look more like german shepherds than they do like wolves. the only physical trait they inherited from wolves (due to the fact that for every wolf used in the program, there were 4 german shepherds, so basically after so many generations all sarloos wolfhounds are 95% german shepherd and 5% wolf) is there coat color. this color is gray sable, which is also found in the german shepherd. sables are almost non-existent in american lines gsd's, but quite common in german and czech bloodlines. the sarloos is built like a gsd, same hight, same weight, same proportions. my friends best guess was that for importing a sarloos from a dutch breeder you would pay in the neighbourhood of $6,000-$10,000. you can easily import a awesome german shepherd for that price, and have a dog that is highly trainable, not afraid or shy, and that has health, hip, and temperment garauntees. I imported my current german shepherd male from my friends kennel in belgium. he is from top showlines, schutzhund trained, and an amazing fmaily/house dog and I paid under $5,000 for him plus shipping fees.

[Love4Pits]

I know a man around here who owns two of those dogs but I live in Canada.

[wolfdoggy]

last I heard there were only 6 known sarloos wolfhounds in the united states, all imported and there hasnt yet been enough interest in the breed for anyone to try to qaulify as a breeder, therefore those imported dogs are all neutered/spayed. the breed was developed by Leendert Sarloos in the early-mid 1900's, he died in 1969. he crossed canadian and siberian wolves with german shepherds. the sole purpose of the crossing was to try to eliminate hip displasia. the problem was that wolves can also develop hip displasia, and they didnt understand genetics at the time and some of the german shepherds used in the breedings either had hip displasia or produced it in their offspring. also he was not breeding for temperment or working ability, only crossing wolves with german shepherds. it IS a recognized breed, by the dutch kennel club, due to the fact that he used many wolves and many gsd's, and didnt continue cross breeding the offspring of every generation back to purebreds of either breed.
they do not differ from any other wolf dog though, in any way. they are very shy, very independent, very aloof, and have a very strong pack instinct. due to their nature of not being a very tractable/trainable dog wich are very prone to becoming fear biters, they have not become popular even in the netherlands. what little I know about them is from reading and from talking about them with a friend of mine who lives in Belgium and breeds german shepherds.
and as far as looks, the majority of them look more like german shepherds than they do like wolves. the only physical trait they inherited from wolves (due to the fact that for every wolf used in the program, there were 4 german shepherds, so basically after so many generations all sarloos wolfhounds are 95% german shepherd and 5% wolf) is there coat color. this color is gray sable, which is also found in the german shepherd. sables are almost non-existent in american lines gsd's, but quite common in german and czech bloodlines. the sarloos is built like a gsd, same hight, same weight, same proportions. my friends best guess was that for importing a sarloos from a dutch breeder you would pay in the neighbourhood of $6,000-$10,000. you can easily import a awesome german shepherd for that price, and have a dog that is highly trainable, not afraid or shy, and that has health, hip, and temperment garauntees. I imported my current german shepherd male from my friends kennel in belgium. he is from top showlines, schutzhund trained, and an amazing fmaily/house dog and I paid under $5,000 for him plus shipping fees.

Not all of this is correct after what I have heard from longtime owners of Saarloos Wolfhounds, and read on wepsites and in a book. After Leendert Sarloos died, the crossing program continued, but stopped because of the increase in wolf-blood, and therefore much of the character traits Leendert wanted to pass on from the German Shepherd to this new breed, became less and less. It became more wolf. And therefore as it once was, a working dog, for blind and rescue operations, it became less efficient in those jobs. Now it is not a working dog, but a family dog. It's nature is not violent. It will always try to escape danger if it can, and you cannot expect it to help you in a fight. it is not a fear biter.

Some of the Saarloos physical traits that are unlike the German shepherd are. The body is longer and taller (Saarloos is 65-75cm. German Shepherd is 60-65cm), it has longer legs, more wolf-like build skull, very unique and wolf-like movements (not like German Shepherd). The hind leg's are not one leg more forward than the other like what the German Shepherd is known to be like. There are more, but I'll stop here. Here are two pictures so you can see the difference...
Saarloos Wolfhound:http://www.cinofilionline.it/images/Saarlos.jpg .
German Shepherd:http://www.dogbiz.com/dogs-grp7/germ-shep/images/germ-shep-300x240-tig-128.gif .
As you can see there is quite a difference.

I do not know the percent of wolf and dog, there are in this wolfdog-breed. What I have read from owners of some of these animals, that also have owned a German Shepherd before the Saarloos, was that the Saarloos was a better companion than the German Shepherd.

[stirder]

well, actually you contradicted yourself, and agreed with your argument. you said they try to escape danger, but are not a fear biter. that is the deffinition of a fear biter: they try to escape danger but bite when they feel cornered. and they are not more like the wolf than the gsd. they are more like the wolf and true gsd than the american lines gsd's. the true gsd (european lines) do not have the sloped back, small heads, one leg more forward than the other, etc.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a152/angel_perrer/serge_type.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a152/angel_perrer/serge_headside.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a152/angel_perrer/mica_type.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a152/angel_perrer/mica_headside.jpg

[BigDog2191]

Looks like a pretty cool breed.

[wolfdoggy]

Okay. I guess I never really knew what the word fear biter meant. I am Danish, and thats my excuse :p .I thought you meant that they will bite if they feel threatened in general. I see the German Shepherd picture on top looks a little more like the Wolf-dog. The hind legs are still German Shepherd-style, the legs are short still, the back and stomach part is not as harmonic as the Saarloos wolfdog. But the pelt and overall look is much saarloos-like. I wouldn't know the difference between the two German Shepherd categories you just mentioned, but I doubt it is much like the Saarloos Wolfhond. The appearance can look a little the same, like the top picture. But the movements are not the same, the body-structure (pelt colour not included) is not the same, the character traits I doubt too are the same. Intellect-wise, I too doubt are the same. Strength and endurance I doubt too. What more?

What is the European line gsh like, character-wise?

[stirder]

both of those dogs are in a stack position. unfortunately it is next to impossible to find a photo of a german shepherd not in a stack (show stance). the dog on top is 75 cm's tall, bottom is a 69 cm female. the one on top fooled an entire class of grad students studying to be wolf biologists. the behaviour is basically the same, with the gsd being more confident and easier to train. max von stephaitz (creator of the gsd) himself admits in his own book that he used the canadian wolf in the creation of the gsd. typically the gsd has larger feet than the sarloos, and the wolf has larger feet than the gsd. an accurate depiction of the working line gsd would actually be more similar in bone structure, size, proportions, gait etc to the wolf than the sarloos. of course there are always exeptions, and I dont argue the fact that the sarloos is very wolfish. however if properly bred (not bred to look like a monstosity that cant hold its own butt off the ground like majority of american gsd's) a gsd will look atleast as wolfish as the sarloos, and be much easier to train. the sarloos' independent, aloof, shy nature makes it harder to train, also it is hard headed. just speak to someone who has tried to train a wolf hybrid, sarloos may be easier to train than a wolf hybrid but its not as easy to train, or maybe I should say it isnt as likely to obey the command no matter how well it knows it, as a gsd.

[wolfdoggy]

I know the Saarloos is stubborn and hard to train, and that is one of the many wolfdog traits. People mistake the "shy" character. It is not shy. It is suspicious. It's not like it lags confidence. That is a trait that wolf hybrids are known for. But that ain't necessarily a thing that makes it a bad breed.

And Saarloos is a wolf hybrid.

It sounds to me like you are saying that there are more wolf in the German Shepherd, than the Saarloos. Is that what you are saying?

[poeluvr]

o my grandpa had a irish wolfhound, their masive. he had to keep his outside.its like a horse, but sweet!
they dont live long though

[wolfdoggy]

How long did it live?

[poeluvr]

they live close to normal in general i tthink 11-12 yrs generally. my grampps though when it was 9
these are his words, but he should no. buthis was a irish wolfhound

[wolfdoggy]

Thats odd. Wolfdogs usually live longer. 13-17 years

[wolfdoggy]

How was it's behavior? Was it suspicious, and stubbon? Or was it an easy dog?

[poeluvr]

it was laid back o but wait i think irish wolfhounds and wolfdogs might be differnt but yea that is what i heard. They get lots of leg problems, heart problems when they get older because of their size. They are very big. gramps was bigger then a great dane, theyre not common though but are supposed to be the biggest dog

[wolfdoggy]

A Border Collie. beautiful dog. What is it like? I assume it is your dog?

[poeluvr]

nope it looks like a toy border collie evryone thinks so. its actually a jack russell and A pomeraniain. it takes after the mother like most dogs do for being a jack. but he has a big forhead pom eyes, and a curly pig like tail from the pom, and is gonna be real small. thanks though. i have more pics in the puppy gallery if ur interested, theyre under poe

[poeluvr]

hes a pup, but surprisingly enough not too energetic.hes going to puppy school on monday, cant wait!

[wolfdoggy]

Puppy school? Cute name, never heard it before. Where is this puppy gallery?

[stirder]

no no no, not saying that it has more wolf in it. it does have wolf in it, but not as recent. and it depends on the german shepherd bloodlines, but some of them do look more wolfish than some sarloos. the only things I have against the sarloos is that (though it has been used for some of the same purposes as the gsd) it was bred to eliminate hip displasia from gsd's, and some of the gsd's used in the breeding were highly prone to the problem. they were not showing signs of it yet, some never did develop it themselves but did produce it in offspring. due to the breeding purpose it is (mentally) more wild than domestic and therefore is harder to train, less territorial and due to its nature it is more liekyl to become a fear biter.
and in a way yes the sarloos is a wolf hybrid. technically there is no such thing as a wolf hybrid though...wolves are canis lupis, divided into sub-species such as the arctic wolf which is canis lupis arctos. the domestic dog is no longer classified as canis familiaris (a seperate canine species, like the coyote or jackals) but is now classified as canis lupis familiaris, just a sub species of wolf. therefore a cross between a wolf and a dog is really a wolf-dog. a hybrid would be a coyote (canis latrans) which is not a subspecies of wolf, crossed with a domestic dog, or wild wolf. the red wolf is highly beleived to be a hybrid of gray wolf and coyote. canis rufus.
the sarloos is more dog like than most wolf-dogs as we know them because most wolf-dogs are between 1st and 3rd generation crosses. there was a experiment in siberia in the late 90's which I cant find any info about online right now, but maybe later since I didnt spend much time trying to relocate it just now. in the experiment they kept foxes in captivity, in the same fassion as fur farmers do. after 8 generations they had developed domestic traits such as: one eye brown, one eye blue; some developed curly hair, others longer than natural soft/fine hair; some with smooth coats like a pointer; some with wire coats; some had longer legs; some had smaller or larger ears; some started showing colors of domestic dogs such as brindle, cream, golden, multi like a gsd, saint bernard etc; all of them were easily handled by humans and only one of I think around 250 showed a prey drive. and that was just breeding captive foxes for several generations, and proved that our ancestors could have just as easily domesticated the dog from the wolf in that short a time. the different traits such as herding, gaurding, retrieving, terrier etc would have taken quite a few more generations of selective breeding. also these fox breeders were not selectively breeding for traits, they just werent allowing them to breed back to wild foxes.
I said that last part to explain that Im certainly not saying the sarloos is wild or uncontrollable. I am just saying they are much harder to train than most of the top popular dog breeds. and more prone to fear biting. and due to their wolf nature they are (from what I've heard from breeders) more prone to wandering. one sarloos breeder in switzerland I spoke with said that she would compare the sarloos' trainability and sociability to a breed like the tibetan mastiff, anatolian shepherd, or great pyrenese (great pyr. several years ago, not the GP today), which are more inclined to come and cuddle when THEY want to, roam long ways, and obey a command ONLY if and when they want to. the same breeder also said she has 2 sarloos that she does therapy and obedience trials with. it takes a lot more time, patience, and training than most people expect. personally I think they are a beautiful dog. if they start being bred for working ability (wether obedience, schutzhund, herding, or something else) and become more readily available I would consider one.

[stirder]

if your looking for a sarloos, but dont want to pay a lot of money, you might try http://www.liquinet.com/wolfdogadoption/ these are in foster homes and have extensive selection process for potential adopters, not to keep people from having them, but to make sure you get one that fits into your life style. and they need homes. if you are looking for something that looks like a wolf but acts like a dog, they will place a low-content wolf dog with you. if a certain wolf dog is likely not to fit with you then they wont give it to you, they dont want it to come back.

[wolfdoggy]

if your looking for a sarloos, but dont want to pay a lot of money, you might try http://www.liquinet.com/wolfdogadoption/ these are in foster homes and have extensive selection process for potential adopters, not to keep people from having them, but to make sure you get one that fits into your life style. and they need homes. if you are looking for something that looks like a wolf but acts like a dog, they will place a low-content wolf dog with you. if a certain wolf dog is likely not to fit with you then they wont give it to you, they dont want it to come back.
Thank you very much for that link! Do you know if it's reliable? Just so I won't end up with an illtreated wolf, that some fools have bestowed upon me?

Another thing. These wolfdogs are not exactly the youngest of puppies. I have read that one must get them at a very young age, even young compaired to normal dogs. Taking in one such as these doesn't sound wise to me. How will I know if it wont be foolish to take one of these?

[stirder]

several years ago I adopted a 75% wolf 25% german shepherd. he has since died of cancer. anyway...from the time I began the adoption process till the time I actually braught the dog home was over 6 months. they first reviewed my application (and by they I mean 12 people), then they did 2 home checks, they contacted my vet to make sure he would treat a wolf dog (some wont) and to question him as to what type of owner he thought I was. they they introduced me to 15 different wolf dogs. some they KNEW were not suited for me, but they wanted to get a better feel for me, was I honest about wanting a happy, healthy, friendly dog and not caring about wolf content etc, or was I lying and really wanting something that looked like a wolf, no matter what they said about its personality. after adoptng him they called several times to make sure I was still reachable, and they did 3 home checks in 4 years to check on the dog and to make sure its environment hadnt changed (such as chaining it up in the back yard and never checking on it). if one of their dogs is not suited to living indoors with a person, family, children, dogs, cats etc they wont let you adopt it, but they will keep you in mind and at the top of the list for one that IS suited to that. you have to sign a contract garaunteeing that if for ANY reason you cannot keep the dog you will contact them and let THEM find it a new home. also it costs on average, $500-1,000 to foster a wolf dog for a month, including feed, toys, vet bills, collars, leashes, etc. the average adoption fee (unless it has gone up since I adopted) is $250-400. they do occasionally have puppies, actually right now they have a litter thats 2 1/2 months old. and most of their wolf dogs were raised by people from an early age, and were turned over after they grew up and the owner didnt know how to control them, many are low content dogs whos owners died and family couldnt handle them or moved and couldnt take them (to a state that doesnt allow them or just a smaller yard or an apartment), some are from states who recently changed legislation to prohibit wolf dogs, some were seized from neglectful homes, and others most likely have NO wolf in them but the owner claimed they did, and therefore were deemed un-adoptable by city and state shelters. these dogs are not kept in shelters (unless it says urgent) but in foster homes, all over the country. the foster parent tries to fix any behaviour problems while they have the dog, and will make sure you are aware of any problems before adopting. each of these foster parents is more strict about who the dog goes to than most dog breeders are. most breeders dont do home checks, ever, let alone continue to do them AFTER the adoption. sarloos may be the way to go for you (any of you) but can be hard to locate, and can be expensive. just a suggestion that adopting one of these dogs might be the way to go. the one I adopted was 5 years old and high content, behaviour was almost purely german shepherd, appearance was totally wolf.
edited to add this picture of the wolf hybrid I adopted...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/panzer426/kiowa2.jpg

[stirder]

might also want this link...they usually have the same dogs on the site as the other one, but now and then they have different ones. http://www.kodakgallery.com/BrowsePhotos.jsp?showSlide=true&Uc=co3wzkv.ya9isan&Uy=-kaiect&Upost_signin=BrowsePhotos.jsp%253FshowSlide%253Dtr ue&Ux=0

also this one, wolfish dogs, sometimes wolf-dogs http://www.petfinder.org/shelters/NV78.html

[wolfdoggy]

How was it like to have him, compaired to a German Shepherd?

And thanks for the links

[stirder]

he was very friendly. he loved everyone. he wasnt overly friendly on introductions, what I mean is he wouldnt just go up to strangers and start trying to get petted or lick them. he would stay next to me and wait for me to introduce them, then hed approach and sniff them, and let them pet him. then after about 10 seconds of that he was their new best friend, and never forgot anyone. aside from appearance he was almost exactly a german shepherd except for 2 major points (there were some minor ones but dont spring to mind at the moment, maybe as Im writing they will) one was he never barked. a couple of times I heard what I would call a chuff, kind of like a grunt or heavy sigh? and he would yip when he was excited, and he would howl. only heard him growl once and that was while camping. I didnt hear or see anything, and didnt let him go run off, not that he was trying too, he was actually gluing himself to my leg. but the next day spoke to a family camping about 1/4 mile down the trail. they said a smallish black bear came through their camp about 15-20 mintues after Kiowa growled, from the direction of my camp site. I have no idea if he would have faught it, I dont mean actually attacking and biting but if he would have tried to scare it off. the other difference was anytime we were around other dogs, if they tried in the slightest way to assert dominance he wouldnt fight or growl, or even put up his hackles. he would simply spin around on a front foot and slam his butt into their head or chest and knock them down. looked like he was smiling the whole time. hed do this untill the other dog walked away (or was pulled away).
he was very easy to train. I taught him sit, lie down, heel, shake hands, roll over, play dead, beg, bow, bring and leave it. he loved to chew bones and his toys but never chewed any furniture or anything. he was good with the cat. every morning we'd get his toys out of their basket in the corner and play, and several times a day he would carry them all back to the basket, something I didnt train him to do but he did from day one. he loved car rides, would beg but would stay atleast a few feet away and patiently wait, and rarely get anything. his recall (off leash, "come here") was better than most of the german shepherds I've trained and met.
he was very clear on the pack order and never challenged it, after the first few weeks that is, once he learned that I was 1st in command and he was second. in fact the first week we were dating my (now) wife was puppy sitting him for a few hours. he had already accepted the fact, minutes after meeting her, that she was higher rank than him. she tried to get him to get on the sofa with her and cuddle while she watched tv. he had never gotten on the sofa before but I had never told him not too either. he would snuggle up to her legs, and lay down on her feet, or rest his head in her lap while she petted him but he wouldnt get on the couch, even when she offered him a hot dog.
but like any breed of dog, that was an individual and I have heard more stories about wolf dogs being kept by people who didnt do the proper research, and the dogs were uncontrollable. but I've also heard a lot of stories like that about domestic breeds. so it of course depends on the individual animal, the owner, the home, the amount of love, etc. from what I've heard (never let it happen with Kiowa so dont know) if you let them disobey a command once, they'll try to get away with disobeying other commands. but again, thats the same with dogs.
oh, he loved snow and water. when it was snowing, raining, or when we went to a creek or lake he was happier than any kid on christmas morning. and he LOVED kids. my neices learned how to stand and walk by grabbing handfulls of his fur. hed just stand still, not even wag his tail to avoid knocking them over. and if the kids would allow it, hed lay down and position them so they were leaning against his belly. everytime he was around them he had a huge doggy smile. and was always reluctant to leave them.

[wolfdoggy]

He sounds cute.
I wonder how I am to make sure that he wont disobey my commands from time to time?
After all that is the character of wolfdogs in general. Something one can't train away.

You were lucky to have such an easy dog. Especially when he was a high content wolf. Chances of me getting one like that, are minimum.

[poeluvr]

Puppy school? Cute name, never heard it before. Where is this puppy gallery?
at the top beside dog forum go to dog pictures. there is a litle box where you can type the name of the picture your lokking for (poe) and it should appear

[wolfdoggy]

Adorable little beast. How big will he be when fully grown do you think?

[poeluvr]

i think 8-12 pounds yep that is it. did you find the dog gallery?

[wolfdoggy]

I did. He got some nice comments! Makes me wanna have a puppy.

[poeluvr]

awww.arnt you gettting one?

[wolfdoggy]

Not with the life I have at the moment. Education takes more than half my life. And I'm only at the start of it. 6-7 more years, and then I'm done. I'm afraid having a dog until then is out of the question. But we'll see.

[poeluvr]

o so your in college or something..im in highschool. well ya never know?

[wolfdoggy]

I'm not sure. Americans don't use the same names for schools as we do.

Right now I'm in a school one is in for two years. At the same time as this, I am taking some extra classes that will increase my chances of getting good grades. That will put one extra year on top of the cake. Then after that, I can go to the university, and do what I want(whatever that might be).

[poeluvr]

o yea so i think you would be in elementary which is bellow highschool, in canada we say university or college
o wait! but you seem to old to be in elementary school is for ages 4-14. i am 16, highschool is for ages 15-18 and university is after that in canada

[wolfdoggy]

Then it's not elementary school. I'm 21. Danish and Americans must be using a totally different school pattern.

We have a normal school we call folkeskole. thats for about 8-17 year old's, and after that, you can go to an education, or you can go to a school for two years on a higher level than folkeskole. Thats the school I'm doing in now. I know I'm late at it, but I was trying so many other options in the meantime. Then after that, you qualify for university.

[poeluvr]

wow! you type english good, did u study it?

[wolfdoggy]

Thanks. You learn English in folkeskole. But everybody mostly learn english from TV ;) . It's natural her to be able to speak a little English at an early age I think. I'm not sure though. I had a good sister for that job :)

Heh. But I see I'm still doing some misspellings.

[poeluvr]

hah yea...so u want a wolf/ something else?

[wolfdoggy]

I want a wolfdog. If I can't have that, then I don't know what to choose. I want something that looks like a wolf. And I love howling! But I can't find any northern breed that has the character that I want. The only wolf-like dogs I know has those traits, are wolfdogs. I really like a Siberian Husky, but I want a dog that wont run away when not having a leash with us. That eliminates the Husky choice. And I want a dog that makes me feel that he and I has a special relationship. Thats why I like the "shy" character of a wolfdog. So Retrievers and alike is out of the question. So is Husky and Malamute. Then what choice do I have?

[poeluvr]

o get a siberian husky they are beautiful will protect and love ya! or a malamute
heres a malamute- kysilke.homestead.com/ files/malamute.jpg www.3drose.com/images/ upload/FP466.jpg
www.gotpetsonline.com/ pictures-gallery/dog-pi...

heres a husky- animals.timduru.org/ dirlist/husky/SiberianHus...
www.galleryone.com/ images/kennedy/kennedy_-_s...
www.pet.gen.tr/2002/ dogs_pics/dogs_68.jpg

[poeluvr]

also though wolfdogs can be aggresive and more independant minded what about a malamute, if my ppics dont work go to google then images then malamute, i dont know if you have them in denmark so...

[wolfdoggy]

I remember when I helped in an animal home for a day, and there was a Siberian Husky. I fell in love with it instantly. But I have both heard that they wont be good to watch over you and protect you (I don't really need that anyway), and that they will run away from you when not walking with leash. And staying with me even without a leash is something that I find a must.

[poeluvr]

malamute?

[wolfdoggy]

Oh yeah. I have read that it's not a oneman dog. Like I said, I want to feel that him and I has a special relationship. I'm not sure if the Husky is any better on that part.

[poeluvr]

what does oneman mean?
i dont know if a wolf hound would be good if your want him to be affectionate ..i think a malamute is good though, but there are many different types of dogs.

[stirder]

well, huskies are not protective, they might bark at an intruder but once the bad guy gets up close most huskies will be friendly. they also like to roam. I know of a lot of people with malamutes that are protective, and they are not near as bad about roaming as huskies, though they do like to roam. but then again so will a wolf or wolf dog. just think of it this way...wild wolves have a territory of hundreds of miles, and they are constantly travelling around their territory, hunting and enforcing their boundaries. northern breeds such as huskies and malamutes were bred to travel long distances, and were bred by people who didnt stay in one place all year long, nomads. this is part of their instinct now, like terriers like to dig because they were bred to, shepherds and collies like to herd because they were bred to, etc. even a wolf that is half dog is going to have the instinct to roam. in some wolf dogs this is diluted, usuaully in a low content wolf dog, especially when the dog part is german shepherd. and very very few wolf dogs are protective, at most they might be a watchdog (bark to alert you that there is an intruder, or just watch the bad guy steal everything out of your house). the cases of wolf dogs biting people are almost always one of these two: the dog was mis-treated, neglected or beaten and became afraid of its own shadow and someone got too close. or...the dog was not properly trained, enclosed, and/or supervised and mistook a person (usually a child since they like to run, fall down, scream, etc) as prey behaviour and their hunting instinct kicked in. this could and does happen with purebred dogs quite often, no matter what breed or size dog you have it should always be supervised when interacting with strangers or children, and when unsupervised should always be properly confined to keep both the dog safe and other people safe.
I must have missed it earlier when you said you were from europe wolfdoggy, to be honest I dont have any idea if wolf dogs are permitted where you live. I have a friend in germany, and another in belgium and they have both said that where they live wolf dogs are illegal, but they dont know other countries laws, and said it may only be certain areas of those 2 countries. the one in germany lives in berlin, friend in belgium lives in beringen. since you live there it actually might be easier to get a sarloos, I was assuming you lived in america when this topic began. if thats the way you decide to go I would do as much research on them as you can. from what I have heard they are not much more likely to be protective than malamutes and wolf dogs, but that may not be entirely true. have you ruled out german shepherds? if so can I ask why? personally I have found them to be the best companions possible. they are not exactly one man dogs, but they are cautious about accepting new people. they will protect you, and are much easier to train that a wolf dog, husky, or malamute. Im sure the german shepherd breeder I know in belgium would be happy to speak with you, and let you see his dogs.

[stirder]

a one man dog is a dog that bonds to one person (or family) and is very difficult to rehome. it doesnt want to accept new members into the pack, at least not easily.

[wolfdoggy]

Well I don't know that much about normal wolf hybrids. I do know much about Saarloos Wolfhound and Czechoslovakian Wolfdog from reading though.
I know that these two has many of the traits I want in a dog. Will never run away when walking without leash etc.

There are two known owners of wolfdogs in Denmark. There are of cause more, but not known by Dansk Kennel Klub. One of them has Czech and the other one has Saarloos. So the legal issues are of no problem.

The Saarloos will most likely not protect me, but the Czech will. Unlike the Saarloos, the Czech is a dog breed for Security and Military service and alike. That is a very nice thing, of cause. And I want my dog to be brave and dependable. But that last part is more meant as a buddy, and not a guard. I don't need protection. And I don't need a watchdog. But I need it to let me know of intruders, one way or the other. Both dogs will do that, I have read.

About why I haven't considered a German Shepherd. I have in fact. And that top gsh picture you showed did look Wolfy. When I have to be honest, I have always been more into things that separates from the majority. Also in dogs. I do realize thats not a healthy view on dogs. And the German Shepherd has some of that Retriever character, loving everyone friendly-looking. My sister has had two German Shepherds. I mean, a stranger who have been with the dog for 10 minutes, could make it obey his commands. That's not something I want in a dog.

I have doubts on getting a Saarloos, mostly because I have never had my own dog. But yet I know more about dogs and how to treat them, than almost every dog owner I have met, if not every single dog owner I have met.

[stirder]

well, a sarloos or czech will not be more likely to not run off when not on a leash. neither will a german shepherd unless highly trained. and you are lucky to live in europe where there are a ton of top german shepherd bloodlines. if properly trained a gsd should not immediatly accept people, let alone obey commands from new people. I dont mean to steer you away from the sarloos or czech, Im certainly not an expert, Im just letting you know what the 2 people I know who breed them have said. and of course they both love their sarloos dogs to death and will never go back to a gsd. but they do admit that in many ways it is not easy. they are stubborn, intelligent but hard to train, deffinetly not guard dogs (dont know about czechs on that regard), and are slow to mature. they both told me this morning that none of their sarloos's would EVER guard them. and even though they both have professionally trained german shepherds, malinois, beaucerons, rottweilers, dobermans and others in schutzhund, for the police and military, for competitive obedience etc for more than 25 years, they wouldnt trust a single sarloos they have, or have ever had, to obey or even stick around when off leash. said they are shy of strangers, some of them to the point of cowering behind the owner and urinating.

[wolfdoggy]

The Saarloos owners I have written with over mail, had told me that it would never run away when walking without leash, And almost all the pictures and the three recorded clips, I have seen with people taking their Saarloos out for a walk was without leash. But things may of cause be different from dog to dog.

[stirder]

my guess would be that they were trained, they certainly are trainable, and it may be harder to train them as every breed has different training abilities, as do individual dogs. and I dont mean for it to sound like Im saying I know more than you, I havnt done any research. all I know is from emailing the 2 sarloos breeders I know of, to let you know what they say. I would just highly recommend since you are considering a sarloos, that you contact the breed registry for a list of ALL sarloos breeders, and contact them. even if you are not going to get one from them they will still answer your questions and help you decide.

[BigDog2191]

I think being able to walk-off leash is something started as a puppy as well. Rocky when I got him followed me EVERYWHERE. To this day, he never really leaves my side. I go outside when he wants to use the bathroom without a leash... he's never tried to leave me.

[wolfdoggy]

Stirder, just to be sure you know it. I hope you don't think I'm trying to argue or be right in this or anything. I'm just trying to go into the detailes, debate, so I will understand it better.

[stirder]

yeah I understand, just had my wife read over it and she thought I might come off as trying to tell you you dont know anything. just wanted to clear it up because Im sure you know more about the sarloos than I do. like I said what little I know about this breed is second hand knowledge. the 2 breeders I know, know my knowledge and experience as far as training dogs so they say everything at that level. Im trying to break it down into easier to explain info. as far as the off leash part, one of them just emailed me back and said that the people saying they will walk off leash are either lying, or they mean with a lot of training. I dont know if thats true or not, could easily be true that they do it in a fenced yard or with no distractions. I would just recommend that you not expect any dog to just do it naturally, do a lot of obedience training with and without distractions, and then if you feel comfortable that it will obey you, take the leash off. as a puppy its not a big deal, they are cautious and cant go far anyway. but as an adult it could be risky if not trained.