Does it really matter if the breeder's dogs are champions??

[Spirit2010]

Well, here is why I ask this,

1.If you are only looking for a pet quality dog, for temperament, and health, don't you just want a good stable dog for health, and temperament?

2.If your not showing the dog, why do you need champions in the background?

3.Why not just look for health and temperament in a breeder?

4.Like looking for a breeder who does health tests, and has the Canine good Citzenship.

I mean just healthy dogs, and just stable temperaments. Ya know what I am trying to say? I am just curious about this. I mean if you are looking for a show dog, that is what you would be looking for champions in the lineage, ya know? I am only curious, and I am not here to start any arguements, I am just curious. If it is a pet quality dog you want, why not just look for those things in a breeder? Again, I am not here to start anything. I just want some advice about this. ;) Thank you for reading!

[Lizmo]

By just having a CGC does not mean that the dog has a good temperment. But even more, it does not mean that it comforms to the breed standerd.

Also, you want a dog that excells at some thing, other wise, why breed? They do not do anything and don't comform to breed standerds.

Just because you want a pet quality puppy doesn't mean that you don't/can't have CH dogs in the backround. By having a CH in the backround (parents, grandparents, great grandparents. ect) you are ensuring that you get a dog that has stable temperment, conforms to breed standerd, and have little to know health issues.

[RedyreRottweilers]

When one begins with mediocrity, there is no direction to go but downward.

There are excellent pet quality puppies in every litter. There is no excuse to cut corners and not compete with your dogs if you intend to breed them.

[ChRotties]

Red is a million times right.

When we went searching for our first Rottie, all we wanted was a pet. Mind you, we had no clue as to the dog show world and the difference between show and pet. But we knew we wanted a healthy, sound, beautiful dog. We contacted a show breeder, went to a show, (which began my addiction!LOL), and bought our first Rottie. I didn't want to show at first, but it looked like such fun...he was my learning experience. That breeder was my mentor and is still a friend.

The benefits of buying from a show breeder go waaayyy beyond just buying a dog.:)

[Spirit2010]

Oh!! ok, Now I get it!!! I needed some persuasion see? I was confused about this topic. Now I understand it a bit better, I mean I am not critisizing it, I have no problem with the show dogs, or having champions in the background. I needed to get clear about that. :p

[Buddy'sParents]

What about working dogs?

[Boemy]

The thing is there are so many healthy, good temperament dogs that if everyone with one bred them, we would have an even bigger pet overpopulation problem. Whereas champions are much rarer and their puppies are highly sought after (if they're from a good breeder). So it kills two birds with one stone . . . first, fewer dogs are bred if only champions are bred. Second, their pups are in high demand, meaning they won't be left homeless or dumped somewhere.

I would say a good working dog would also have a pretty hefty demand. (Obviously if there's no demand at the moment and no one in the area needs more dogs, they shouldn't be bred right then.) I wouldn't expect working dogs to be champions, as in some breeds the champions have lost certain instincts or are less "drivey" than working dogs.

[RedyreRottweilers]

That is one reason I said compete. Working dogs like farm dogs are harder to classify, but at any rate, that's not what spirit was talking about.

I will say there are FEW exceptions to my view that one should compete with stock they intend to breed.

:D

[juliefurry]

none of my dogs have come from breeders who show their dogs (not saying it's right to buy from people who don't compete). Although Holly's parents can and do do what they were bred to do (herding). Although getting a dog who has champion bloodlines and who's parents can do what they were bred to do is the wisest way to go. People who take the time to show their dogs and get their dogs tested mean that they TRULY care about their dogs and the puppies and will make sure they are there for the lifetime of these puppies. People who just breed to breed are only in it for the money and may say they give lifetime support but rarely, if ever, do they actually give it. You want to look for a breeder who cares about the wellbeing of their puppies and where they are going and who will probably ask you more questions than you ask them. Those are the people who are going to get out there and make sure they are producing the best most soundest puppies that they can.

[bubbatd]

Fault me if you want to , but except for a few shows and 4H my stock didn't " Show " . This was 40 years ago and Goldens were not in the demand like today . They came from Champion stock and I did all the testings . I guess today , you could call me a BYB... but the Breed standard , health and temperament were #1 to me . Things are different today . Way too many unproven dogs are bred , so I would only go with people I know and trust to steer me the right way .

[Spirit2010]

Hershey I can tell was bred to do what Labs do best, tracking. Although his breeders were BYB's, his parents were outside dogs, and Hershey has been outside since the day he was born. Poor guy. But he does have a lot of tracking instincts, and would do great if he was trained in tracking. Or Drug finding, or something. Now I understand why people compete with the dogs that they are going to breed, and my grandma also explained it to me, although she has never bred dogs, she has bred Champion Belgian horses. And she showed them, and bred them, with my grandpa, and loved doing it. Her and my grandpa titled all of the mares, but the stallion, I don't think they did anything with, except for a stud, I don't know if horse showing/breeding is the same, but they were good breeders, they got them tested before they bred. And did everything, but that was way back when. I don't know when, but it was a long time ago! They were good, and loved what they did with their horses. :) But, I don't know if horse breeding is connected with dog breeding. It is all complicated to me. lol The only thing not complicated is training the puppy/dog and taking care of it. And finding a good breeder these days is very hard!

[doberkim]

Why should someone who wants a pet get any "lesser" of a pet than someone who wants a show or working prospect?
Why should they get dogs that do not look and meet breed standard, that have poor temperaments, come from shotty health backgrounds, and have improper breed temperaments?

People who only want a PET deserve just as much as someone who wants a dog for a performance sport or the breed ring. In the end, my competition dog is STILL above and beyond my pet.

[SpringerLover]

Many people don't NEED a purebred dog! All they NEED is a dog that fits their lifestyle.

Wayyyy too many people get hung up on the "purebred" aspect of it.

[showpug]

I think many times people forget that the very reason behind dog shows in the first place is to test breeding stock! So, why should some breeders have to test their stock and others not? It all comes down to who wants to put the most time and effort into their breeding program. Others just want to cut corners.

No reputable breeder breeds just to produce puppies to be sold as pets. There are plenty of dogs in shelters to fill that order. Any reputable show breeder is also very capable of producing wonderful pet and companion dogs. Many are very happy to place puppies in such homes. The new owners can rest assured that their puppy came from the very best and was created out of purpose.

People who want pets deserve that their puppy come from well bred, champion, health tested stock!

[Cheetah]

Many people don't NEED a purebred dog! All they NEED is a dog that fits their lifestyle.

Wayyyy too many people get hung up on the "purebred" aspect of it.

I'll go to a shelter or rescue for a mixed breed dog, just like I did with Eevee.
~~

Shippo came from a breeder who DOES compete with her dogs in shows and sometimes herding. Both his parents are champions, and I was only looking for a pet. But when I went looking, I knew that typically, show breeders usually have several pet quality pups in their litters. Why support a BYB if I can get a much better quality pet by supporting a reputable breeder, and for probably the same price?

[Bahamutt99]

There will always be breeders who are happy to skate by with the bare minimum, or nothing at all. Insisting on a breeder who goes the extra mile simply seperates the men from the boys, so to speak. If you're happy with second-best, or mediocre, then go with it. I feel like if I'm going to be feeding it, I want the best I can get.

[Aussie Red]

Many people don't NEED a purebred dog! All they NEED is a dog that fits their lifestyle.

Wayyyy too many people get hung up on the "purebred" aspect of it.

Ah yes but if more people thought that going with a pure bred and from a reputable breeder we would have a lesser need for the animal death chambers in this country. There will always be those who will not fix their pets and always be plenty of unwanted animals. The more that turn away from these breeding practices are the ones who are stopping the killings. We who rescue the unwanted can only do so much.

[Red_ACD_for_me]

Remember to Spirit that plenty of "purebreds" that are bred from champion lines throw plenty of "pet quality" pups already. So just breeding for pets IMO isn't good enough even if you health test ;)

[~Jessie~]

When one begins with mediocrity, there is no direction to go but downward.

There are excellent pet quality puppies in every litter. There is no excuse to cut corners and not compete with your dogs if you intend to breed them.

I completely agree. Not every puppy born from champion parents ends up being show quality... these pet quality pups are then sold to pet only homes... with limited registration (in most cases) and a possible neuter contract.

Buying from a breeder who shows their dogs for the most part ensures that the puppy will be to the breed standard. Breeders who show and health test their dogs have better health guarantees as well.

Please be very wary of breeders who breed just for pets... there are enough pets in this world who do not have homes. There is no need to purposely breed for them.

[whatszmatter]

That is one reason I said compete. Working dogs like farm dogs are harder to classify, but at any rate, that's not what spirit was talking about.

I will say there are FEW exceptions to my view that one should compete with stock they intend to breed.

:D

FOrgive me if this has been addressed, I haven't read past this post, but Red is correct. Not saying that working people shouldn't compete in something with their dogs on occasion just to "show off" their dogs, I think they should. BUT when people are in the "working" business they most likely start out competing with their dogs, and after their reputation has been set, they may not as much, but the big difference is lots of people have seen the person and seen their dogs work. They've seen the puppies grow up and work, and usually people like this have more than a few people around that work with them personally that are waiting for their puppies.

But one still has to be careful cause lots of people use the "working" excuse as just that, and excuse, to not ever compete or show their dogs off. They have no experience, no background, no reputation (well not a good one) except for the one they try and sell you. To be smart about it, if you want a working dog, get into a working program, get to know the people, and you'll be able to weed thru the BS in time.

[Sapphire-Light]

I wish I could have more acess to show breeders, :o
The mayority of the are husky and boxer, for the other breeds is extremely rare.

In the show most of the times they are 2 or 3 breeds per group and some times none, is deprecing >->

[planet molosser]

Well, here is why I ask this,

1.If you are only looking for a pet quality dog, for temperament, and health, don't you just want a good stable dog for health, and temperament?

NO you want the WHOLE package.

2.If your not showing the dog, why do you need champions in the background?

To prove the dog meet the standard - parents should be shown and possibly championed sometimes BOTH are not but the SIRE normally is BEFORE they breed.. 2nd in some breeds it helps to show the breeders knowledge of the breed and how to handle them.
If the breeder says every dog she has is PERFECT and has not faults then run away.

3.Why not just look for health and temperament in a breeder?

Comformation is HEALTH, a severly easty westy, hocky bad topline knocked knee'd dog is BAD comformation thus bad health.

4.Like looking for a breeder who does health tests, and has the Canine good Citzenship.

Breeders need to publish the test results, breed away from issues and the CGC is a basic test a another test like ATTS or working title should be also added.

Imean just healthy dogs, and just stable temperaments. Ya know what I am trying to say? I am just curious about this. I mean if you are looking for a show dog, that is what you would be looking for champions in the lineage, ya know? I am only curious, and I am not here to start any arguements, I am just curious. If it is a pet quality dog you want, why not just look for those things in a breeder? Again, I am not here to start anything. I just want some advice about this. ;) Thank you for reading!

Pet quality should still meet the standard .
Some call out of standard pups pet quality. IF the dog has a fault serious enough to remove it from breeding, or hinder it in any way, the buyers should be told in advance and given a discount.
This way pet owners dont get bad ideas about breeding PETS.

I sell dogs not intended for breed ( nothing to do with looks type comformation) to owners as PETS but NOT really pet quality.
The price reflects what work I put into the OWNERS.
If they want to breed they pay a higher price for the mentoring .

If I breed a out of standard dog it is sold requiring S/n and discounted beyond the dogs sold as pets.

I have had 2 so far one runt female she stayed here could not part with Precious the other was a GRAY eyed male the standard calls for darker eyes.
SO I took $400 off the reg price.

Well any way good topic.

[Spirit2010]

Wow, I have learned a lot more on this now. :) Thanks everyone! Maybe this will also help new pet owners to be too. It surely has helped me!

[NemoGirl]

:) Hi,
I have learned alot since October of 2005 when I bought Nemo from a pet-store:( . My next one will be from a breeder. I think it's so important to know your dogs pedigree , to be able to see the parents and talk with the breeder and have a guarantee of health. Nemo is healthy but already at age 16(December) months he needed Patella surgery, the Vet said he wasn't bred to well. I love him so much, but next time I will do things the right way!!
Andrea:)