Breeding Ethics

[Bowowee]

Is it ethical to breed your bitch everytime it comes into season?

[Laurelin]

No, in my opinion it is not ethical to breed a bitch every season.

[Zoom]

IMO, no. The mother needs a chance to rest and build her strength and resources back up. It's hard work whelping and raising a litter!

[Bowowee]

What if the breeder got a certification from a vet that the dog is fit for breeding even though it was only 4 months ago when the bitch whelped its last litter will that change your answer?

[Zoom]

No. A dog being fit enough to breed and the breeder being ethical about giving the bitch a cycle off are two different things. Back to back matings will wear out the dog significantly from what I understand and may lead to problems later on.

[RD]

I've heard of people breeding a bitch back to back, then spaying her. Not sure what to think of it. It seems to me like it'd be a lot of stress on the bitch, though, and I personally wouldn't ever do it.

[Bowowee]

What if the breeder argues that he has made an excellent breeding and that there is a high demand for his puppies will that justify his act?

[RD]

If there's a truly high demand, the potential puppy buyers will be willing to wait an extra 6-8 months for the bitch to have a heat cycle off. :)

[IliamnasQuest]

I've been studying breeding and its effects on a bitch quite a bit lately because of my interest in breeding someday. To me, the question of breeding back-to-back cycles can't be answered with a simple "yes" or "no".

According to some canine reproductive specialists, breeding a healthy bitch in back-to-back cycles is not necessarily a bad thing. If you google Dr. Robert Van Hutchison you will find some transcripts of seminars that go into that. The uterus of a bitch deteriorates with every heat cycle. Breeding her doesn't create any more deterioration of the uterus than not breeding her would.

Of course, the bitch needs to be healthy, maintaining weight, and be a good mother to start with. Bitches carry their puppies for approximately two months, puppies are generally weaned by six weeks old, and that gives her a couple of months to recuperate before being bred again. Some bitches can do it, some can't.

There are a lot of other things to consider besides the current health of the bitch. How old is she? How easily did she whelp the first time? Did she produce dead puppies? How easily did her milk come in? Did she enjoy the puppies? Was she bred the previous heat cycle too? Is she of a high enough quality that she should even BE bred? What kind of health testing did she have prior to breeding? What about the stud dog? Is he health tested?

If the motivation for breeding again is a quick sale of puppies, then I would say that's absolutely unethical. The current puppies are only four months old - WAY too young to truly assess for quality and health - so there's no way of really knowing if this is an "excellent" breeding.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska

[showpug]

I personally would never do it and I know a lot of top breeders that don't. More than anything, reputable breeders don't generally breed more than 1 litter per year.

For those that do want to do it, I think it depends on the age and health of the bitch along with the emotional and nutritional support she is given.

[Laurelin]

I would not do it. It is hard enough on toys having one litter let alone two in one year. And I agree, most breeders I know have one, maybe two litters a year on occasion. (In my breed that's about 2-5 puppies a year)

[Maxy24]

any breeders who do that are almost byb's to me. They are forcing their dog to be almost constantly carrying puppies. Imagine how stressful that is on her,plus she will have to give birth to all of them which hurts which some people seem to be oblivious to, not saying that you are or even if you are the one that is breeding since I don't know but I think the dog deserves a break ad to feel normal again. The more someone breeds the more they are risking the life of their dog and all the puppies. Imagine if you were the dog, I don't know if you are a female or have ever carried a child but most people are VERY glad to finally get that baby out! Well all I know is that when I look at a breeder I look at the health screenings (OFA), number of bitches, show or work championships, and how many litters they have each year, along with what the environment the puppies are raised in look like. To me a breeder that breeds at every heat is a red flag.

[terrier terror]

I wouldn't do it. But I wouldn't go so far as to say their unethical without first looking at the situation.

[MaryAndDobes]

What if the breeder argues that he has made an excellent breeding and that there is a high demand for his puppies will that justify his act?


Responsible breeding is not about fulfilling a market demand, it's about improving the breed.

High demand - I get upwards of 150-200 enquiries a year for my puppies. Doesn't mean I'm going to even attempt to fill it ...

[whatszmatter]

I know a few people that have bred back to back cycles, witht he health of the bitch and the quality of the puppies in mind. It's not something that should continue for the reproductive life of the bitch or with all bitches, but its not that unheard of, if done with health of the mother in mind, can be done safely with positive outcomes.

[bubbatd]

:yikes: I've NEVER known a good breeder to do that !!!!

[planet molosser]

Not a simply Yes or No.

Some bitches look HORRIBLE and take 6 months to get back into shape pregnancy.
Others expecially working dogs can get back into shape in less than 2 months.

Breeding a YOUNG bitch age 2 back to back is NOT good .
Because she needs to understand what whelping and recovering is about ,and to mature a bit more mentally.

Breeding a OLD bitch back to back can KILL her, age 7 Years and up.
SOme breeders breed as old as age 8 or 9 ( I do not)

In between some of the top breeder vets state breed back to back a 3 or 4 year old and then give them a year or two off.

Have not done this YEt cause so far 3 out of my 4 breeding bitches do NOT recover quick enough to breed .

The time can vary for breeds: somel cycle within 30 days of giving birth which I think is horrible to breed back.

I also spay by age 7 years old so in my opinion if I had a choice of breeding a 8 year old dog taking time off or a 5 year old dog back to back.
I would pick the back to back and spay by age 7 years or so.

Also I have LOST stud males to accidents in new homes by co owners.
Hunting , car accidents etc I have almost LOST a entire line i breed because
I do not breed enough , I spay earlier than most, I neutered dogs sold as working pets..

I will continue to do all the above but after becoming a breeder vs a novice.
I do not neuter young any more, I still spay bitches early, and I wont breed too much - cost too much time and money.

But I would breed back to back a bitch that could handle it if .
I needed to preserve the bloodline and I had buyers waiting.
On contingent on the HEALTH of the bitch.

My Vet would of found my older dog "healthy" but I could tell she got WEAK after carrying a large litter, and I as a owner know better than my Vet.

So the Vet "says its ok" is often a common ploy by backyard breeders to justify breeding allot of dogs that can not whelp naturally or dogs with health issues that they want to " get a vets ok to breed".

Most Vets are NOT qualifed breeders their job is to treat sick dogs not to breed dogs. So heh the dogs get sick, teh mom needs 911 emergency care or c section. they will be there to HELP.

NOt thier job to qualify breeders decisions thou some what lame at times.

[rabbitsarebetter]

i wouldnt do it. even if the bitch looked great shortly after her last litter.

[Momof2Pups]

I personally wouldn't do it, even if the bitch was recovered completely from the last litter and was doing wonderfully.

[bubbatd]

To me waiting 6 mos. won't ruin a line or break the hearts of those on the waiting list .

[Lizmo]

No, I would never do that. Or buy from a breeder that is doing this. :)

If there is a high demand for pups of this breed, then buyer's are going to be willing to wait. And if they are not, they really don't want a pup. IMO

[planet molosser]

We rescued a bitch bred every season from a tire lot in Queens.
She ate rats to help feed the pups.
She had a litter every year of her life for 5 years.
Even thou the pups did survive and she did as well.
I would expect it to cut out her life shorter than most who have not had that many litters let alone every year
.
Breeding every season should never be done, "ethically" but as evident by this rescue we got can be done.

She still has a habit of killing rats vs eating kibble very hard habit to break for the foster home.

The first question was every season and no matter who answers it should be NO no matter the Vet a OK.

Back to back breedings on dogs who cycle 3-4 times a year is not ok either.

However some breeds only cycle ever 9-13 months Molossers
And even thou a back to back is ok for some _it can RUIN a bitch _ or kill her.

Working dogs and show dogs are VERY hard to breed often cause you lose the ability to title when they are whelping..

So most ethical breeders wont do it they can lose so much in competition.

[planet molosser]

Oh forgot Quest my first post was in reply to you.
I have worked with DR hutch and if you know of any more materials i can get on breeding to add to my collection pls do post.

What you say is true I have lost a line cause I waited 2 years between litters vs one .

[Spiritus]

Dr. Hutch not only says that the uterus deteriorates with every season, he goes further, saying that a pregnant uterus is MORE healthy than a non-pregnant one.

A bitch's body goes through the exact same thing whether she is carrying puppies or not. Her uterus goes through the motions of having pups even when she has not been bred. This is what happens to animals who's cycles are progesterone based vs. estrogen based. Dogs are progesterone based cyclers. Their progesterone level is what causes them to be able to carry pups. A drop in their progesterone level is what causes them to go into labour. That progesterone level pattern is the same, carrying puppies or not. Its affect to the uterus is the same, whether she carries puppies or not.

I have bred back to back. I would do it again.

If I have a bitch who cycled every four months, I would NOT back to back breed that bitch. Heck, I might not ever breed that bitch. In my breed, I would worry about what underlying health condition is causing her progesterone levels to act in such a way.

If I have a bitch who cycles every 6-7 months, I would consider back to back breeding her, then give her a break. I have done this. But there are circumstances that I have to consider... the condition of the bitch, what kind of mom she was, how she "liked" having puppies, how she recovered from having puppies. There are a lot of variables to consider.

If I had a quality bitch who produced quality puppies that cycled once a year, she would likely be bred back to back.

It's easy for us women who have had children to say that they would never allow a bitch to be bred back to back, based on their own experiences of carrying a child, delivering that child, raising that child. But, in dogs it is different. They don't cycle every 21 days and then are done until next time. Their progesterone based cycles affect them very differently. Because of those progesterone levels, their uterus is in effect, damaged by each and every cycle. And this is why I believe so strongly in spaying non-breeding animals.

[Bowowee]

Is it ethical to use DOGS as their primary source of income?

[Lizmo]

Is it ethical to use DOGS as their primary source of income?

You mean like breeding a dog for money?

No.

Now if you are a trainer or anything like that, then yes.

[Spiritus]

Is it ethical to use DOGS as their primary source of income?

Breeding dogs? Absolutely not. Training dogs, studying dogs, working with dogs, handling dogs, then yes.

Breeding is done to further a breed, to help ensure that the breed will still be here tomorrow.

[Bowowee]

Yes. Dog breeding as a livelihood.

[Zoom]

No. It's not.

I thought we went over a lot of this with you awhile back, which is what got you to change your mind about your breeding habits back then?

[Bowowee]

Me? Nope never did that.

But I did breed a couple of dogs just for the sake of breeding them. No purpose at all. Things changed a lot since then.

I asked this question because I've seen a lot of champion breeders who's primary source of income is their dogs.

[planet molosser]

Spriit thanks for the post I like to learn something to make me wonder more.

I will one day breed a bitch 2x in a year IF she recovers well, I need the line and the pets are spoken for.

Ive heard some of the little breeds cycle every 3-4 months but I never owned one.

My can go every 13 months or 6-9 depending on if we get a full seasons of winter fall summer etc- when we skip a season we skip a cycle for the dogs.

Regards to make money ? NO
I just went back to work to WORK for my dog hobby.
My hubby makes enough for our farm and our animals .

But now that we have 12 dogs and I still want to show and breed , work, buy livestock and health certify it cost more money then my 1-2 litters a year.

This year alone with 2 spays, 2 collections by Dr hutch, one penn hip, 2 old dog check ups, ukc reg , and dog food I am in the red .
The dogs shows & livestock has to be paid by my new job.

I do hope one day to break even :)

Some breeders do make some money but reinvest into the dog hobby by buying more things to make money . Like a mirco chip business, a tag making machine, etc.

First thousand I ever make I will buy one of those machines so I can stop having to make tags each time a working dog loses it in the back fields.

[chickenlittle]

Dr. Hutch not only says that the uterus deteriorates with every season, he goes further, saying that a pregnant uterus is MORE healthy than a non-pregnant one.

A bitch's body goes through the exact same thing whether she is carrying puppies or not. Her uterus goes through the motions of having pups even when she has not been bred. This is what happens to animals who's cycles are progesterone based vs. estrogen based. Dogs are progesterone based cyclers. Their progesterone level is what causes them to be able to carry pups. A drop in their progesterone level is what causes them to go into labour. That progesterone level pattern is the same, carrying puppies or not. Its affect to the uterus is the same, whether she carries puppies or not.

I have bred back to back. I would do it again.

If I have a bitch who cycled every four months, I would NOT back to back breed that bitch. Heck, I might not ever breed that bitch. In my breed, I would worry about what underlying health condition is causing her progesterone levels to act in such a way.

If I have a bitch who cycles every 6-7 months, I would consider back to back breeding her, then give her a break. I have done this. But there are circumstances that I have to consider... the condition of the bitch, what kind of mom she was, how she "liked" having puppies, how she recovered from having puppies. There are a lot of variables to consider.

If I had a quality bitch who produced quality puppies that cycled once a year, she would likely be bred back to back.

It's easy for us women who have had children to say that they would never allow a bitch to be bred back to back, based on their own experiences of carrying a child, delivering that child, raising that child. But, in dogs it is different. They don't cycle every 21 days and then are done until next time. Their progesterone based cycles affect them very differently. Because of those progesterone levels, their uterus is in effect, damaged by each and every cycle. And this is why I believe so strongly in spaying non-breeding animals.

This is an excellent post!

When I was breeding {now I just mentor} I bred after the bitch was two years old and I bred for three litters in a row at most not always. Then the bitch was spayed and placed in a loving family home or donated to a service department if she fulfilled the requirements for such a life.
This meant that at the absolute latest my bitches breeding careers were over a four years old and left with long loving lives as family pets.

If a bitch was run down at any point; they were retired and spayed; breeding career was over!

As far as making money in breeding or dogs in general; cannot and will not happen. If it does then someone is doing something wrong! There is no money in dogs it is done for the love of the breed and the love of the dog.

[RedyreRottweilers]

I personally see no issue with back to back breedings as long as the bitch is healthy, in blooming physical condition, and all the right homework has been done.

For my current bitch I would like to breed her quickly so that I can spay her and concentrate on her working career. I imagine she will be done and spayed before she is 5.

[FoxyWench]

i would NEVER breed my breed back to back, chis just arnt strong enough whelpers in general as it is. i would NEVER back to back breed any breed who typically has a hard labour (bulldogs, toy breeds, ect)
i personally wouldnt do it with any other breed either but thats just me and i know it CAN be done safely if doen right!

as for breeding dogs as a primary source of income ANY good breeder will tell you, if your making a profit off your litter your cutting corners somewhere!
Most good breeders are lucky to break even when considering costs fo titling, and healthchecks on their dogs.

[bubbatd]

^^^^^ agree ! To me the BYB and puppy mill is the only real money maker.

[Bowowee]

If someone produces well conformed dogs, shows them, does health checks, but still relies on his breedings as his sole source of income, can you consider this breeder as a puppy miller?

Just curious, I've seen some people do this.

[Maxy24]

In that case I really don't think it's possible. If you put forth all the money in showing, testing and raising the dogs and puppies I don't think you could ever make enough to support you, unless you have some sort of billionaire family or win the lottery of course! :D that's just my opinion, I mean how will the breeder make any money if he does all those things, he MIGHT break even EVENTUALLY. What breeders have you seen that use breeding as there sole income yet still show and do health screenings?

[rabbitsarebetter]

ummm i know someone who shows and tests....
and they make enough money to support them. however they do breed 6 litters at a time, maybe twice a year.

[Mach1girl]

NO breeder will ever get rich off of breeding, excuse me...NO REPUTABLE BREEDER will, at least not for a long, long time, than maybe he'd make a few extra bucks, but never rich.

You have no idea!

Only BYB and puppy peddlers make money and that is UNETHICLE, and what reputable breeder EVER has 6 litters a year and still be a reputable breeder and ethicle??Not happening!There would simply never be enough time, couldnt be done. As a matter of fact, that sounds pretty disgusting to me.

[Mach1girl]

If someone produces well conformed dogs, shows them, does health checks, but still relies on his breedings as his sole source of income, can you consider this breeder as a puppy miller?

Just curious, I've seen some people do this.If this is his only source of income, where is the money coming from to show and have health testing done????Vet bills? Shots? Training? Training equipment? Travel expenses?Diet choices?

Do you even know what health testing consists of???Showing consists of???

Sister, someone is lieing to you!

[ravennr]

Good posting Mach.

[bubbatd]

I'm with Mach !!! My mentors both worked , showed , bred their champions ( maybe a litter every year or two ) both Judged on the side , boarded etc. and I'd say never made a penny from their dog endeavors . Just helped fray the expenses .

[FoxyWench]

i agree with mach too!

[Momof2Pups]

I agree. Something's fishy if a breeder is making a living off of the breeding itself.

[rabbitsarebetter]

I also agree!

maybe stud fees, and whelping a litter
male dog is thiers, female is not... but the female will stay and have her pups there..
maybe that is what brings in the money.

[Lizmo]

Yeah, that's really strange if a person is making a living off breeding and does it *right*

[Bowowee]

If this is his only source of income, where is the money coming from to show and have health testing done????Vet bills? Shots? Training? Training equipment? Travel expenses?Diet choices?

Do you even know what health testing consists of???Showing consists of???

Sister, someone is lieing to you!


Situation here is different. Vet services are cheap. Travel is not that expensive since most of the shows are held in Metro Manila and nearby provinces. Thus, its not really impossible to earn money from dogs and be a show breeder at the same time. They even export their dogs. Please take note that they don't just breed. They breed and produce well conformed dogs, but they do it as a means of livelihood. Is it ethical?

[rabbitsarebetter]

I wonder this also.
like i said, these people i know...
they breed often yes, but they have homes lined up. they test them, and they have produced a large amount on American/Canadian champions.

[carlar]

I agree with IliamnasQuest. I think it has to be carefully decided per dog and with a vet's input.

[planet molosser]

I leave the word puppymiller for dogs that are not only bred for profit but also not well taken care of.
I have never really heard of a puppymiller showing - xraying and working.
( few rare akc examples when they get into hoarding)

I use the term Commercial breeders who breed many litters a year that do little or no health or work or show. They need to breed allot to pay bills or too off set costs of having tons of dogs to feed.
Commercial breeders can turn puppmillers quick when they get in over their heads with too many to take care of.

And I use the term backyard breeder who has a few dogs , none or few are proven in anything other than the ability to produce a litter.

Professional breeders work in the industry and off sets costs in handling fee's for other dogs, judging,traning, selling products they create or find a need for, running their own shows etc etc.

[animalcrackers]

I'm from the Philippines also. Just wanted to add that there is no OFA equivalent here, so that would explain why health-testing is a lot cheaper. If I'm not mistaken, most breeders opt to get certifications from the vet instead.

I think what Bowowee is saying is possible if the breeder charges a lot and actually has a profit margin. But it still feels unethical to me. Maybe because there are reputable and responsible breeders who don't try to make money off their pups and who do this out of genuine passion and dedication for the breed. Here's a theoretical question: if those breeders who produce healthy, champion dogs could not make money off breeding and even possibly lose money doing it, would they still breed their dogs?

[Mach1girl]

A certificate from the vet is not a test. The vet cannot thump on the dogs bones like a watermelon to hear if they are sound and strong enough to earn a living being a sport dog (you know, for titleing or something) A vet cannot put on his x ray glasses and see the dogs joints to tell if there is any future risk or HD or ED that can be passed on to offspring by breeding.Vets cant even offer correct feeding advice !!!

Show dogs are expensive, and for a reason. SHOWING dogs costs alot of money.
If I read this right, you are talking conformation, not sporting. So, you have a bitch, you paid???? for her. She goes into heat, stud fees??Of course you want a worthy stud, look at posibly a thousand dollars, given the benefit, we will say $500. You breed, three times??It takes. You have vet visits. You say not expensive so we'll go with $40 per visit. Supplements, and any problems that may arise in between. You whelp, the pups have to go to the vet now. Simple charge. Then momma needs a shot to clean her out, to be examined, more money. Then puppy shots, puppy food, etc.

That is just the puppy process.

Before all this, you have to work on getting a conformation title with the bitch. You start training at a young age. Training costs money, and to make it all the way thru, you spend even more.

One best in show proves NOTHING. This takes possibly years.

It is too much to explain, and I dont feel like typing....but there is NO WAY you can make a living as a REPUTABLE breeder and get rich off of it. I didnt even mention ossible problems that may occur.


Besides, do you know the statistics of how many pups are born CONFORMATIONALLY CORRECT, even though both parents were PERFECT????Very, very low. You are lucky to get one, maybe two!

[OutlineACDs]

Well, here is a breeder in my area that shows and health tests their dogs. (Has like 30 something champions) and they make a profit.

I consider them a high class puppy mill. Theyt do make decisions and do breedings that I think are unethical, but they show and test their dogs.

www.okies.com

[animalcrackers]

I agree that something like an x-ray and a certification from a vet is not the same as health-testing for hip dysplasia. But I'm not sure what else local breeders do or could do since there is no OFA equivalent here. I've never bred, so I'm not sure what kind of "substitution" is feasible for health-testing and if the Philippines even has the technology to conduct those health-tests.

[RedyreRottweilers]

If you have access to mail service, there is nothing keeping anyone from submitting films to OFA for evaluation.

Find out how at http://www.offa.org/apps.html

[bubbatd]

^^^ agree . Your vet can give you an idea of how the hips look ....but only OFA can give you a rating and certificate .

[RedyreRottweilers]

Another thing to consider is each time you send information for evaluation to OFA, you are adding to the data base for your breed.

Information is a good thing.

:)

[Spiritus]

^^^ agree . Your vet can give you an idea of how the hips look ....but only OFA can give you a rating and certificate .

Not quite true. In the US, there is OFA and PennHip. In Canada there is WCVM and OVC. FCI countries have their own system as well. I personally use WCVM.

[Miakoda]

What if the breeder got a certification from a vet that the dog is fit for breeding even though it was only 4 months ago when the bitch whelped its last litter will that change your answer?

Then that vet is a complete idiot & that owner should honestly know better.

[RedyreRottweilers]

Spiritus, can you tell more about WCVM?

[Spiritus]

The Western College of Veterinary Medicine evaluates and scores hips and elbows. For hips, they have five passing classifications:

Excellent
Good to Excellent
Good
Fair to Good
Fair

For elbows, they use three different views for classification. You either pass/fail for elbows, but if there is dysplasia evident, they will grade it for you.

Two of the orthopedic radiologists that view the films used to be on the OFA panel, back when OFA had many vets in their panel (vs. the three they have now). Students view the xrays as well, and ask questions. Many many eyes view the xrays.

I take my dogs directly to the college. They do the xrays without anesthetic, and keep the dog on the table until they know they have the correct view. If there is a question, they will retake the xray to ensure it wasn't just positioning.

I had one dog have a questionable elbow at age 2. The Dr. told me that for now he would pass it, but asked me to bring the dog back in a year for another xray of that elbow. He said that dysplasia is progressive, and if what he was seeing on the film truly was dysplasia, there would be significant change in a year. I took my dog back, had the xray done, and no, the dog did not have dysplasia. And the college only charged me 1/2 price for the film as no one EVER brings their dogs back for follow-up. I was the first person, EVER, to come back for the follow up. The Dr. thanked me for coming back and will be using my dog's xrays in the classroom.

Edited to add: Forgot to mention, the WCVM is working on building a database similar to OFA's. I am looking forward to this.

[ChRotties]

NO! NO AND NO AGAIN!

Anyone and I mean ANYONE that relies on BREEDING dogs as their SOLE source of income is NOT ethical. And, yes, that includes people that show.

The ONLY purpose for breeding should be to BETTER the respective breed...striving to have better than what you started with, and IF breeding is done correctly, (all health clearances, food, supplements, etc etc) you are very lucky to break even , much less have very little profit left over....certainly not enough to make a LIVING off of.

[Red_ACD_for_me]

Is it ethical to breed your bitch everytime it comes into season?
In my opinion I think it is cruel to breed your dog every season for a source of income. Maybe in your country it is considered "ethical" but here in the states people who breed for greed are called puppy mills or BYB's! How old is your bitch and how many times has she been bred?

[bubbatd]

Will agree that there are more who give evaluations and rating today . OFA was the 1st in the '60s when I was breeding ... I stuck with them .

[animalcrackers]

Very interesting. So you can mail to the OFA. I think most local breeders leave that little option out when they breed their dogs and settle for certifications from the vet. No wonder they make money off their dogs.

Thanks. Now I know that having no OFA equivalent here is not an excuse.

[RedyreRottweilers]

Spiritus, that is SO interesting, I would love to have them do an elbow eval on my bitch.

If you have any information about how to get in touch with them, would you please PM it to me. I would need info about views needed as well, since OFA only requires one.

If they can accept digital images, I might be able to have the vet I go to hook up with them so that they could evaluate the films and we could do more if the positioning was not correct.

Either way very interesting information. My bitch had no change from 12 months to 24 months, and I plan to film her elbows again at 36 months to again check for changes.

[Bowowee]

In my opinion I think it is cruel to breed your dog every season for a source of income. Maybe in your country it is considered "ethical" but here in the states people who breed for greed are called puppy mills or BYB's! How old is your bitch and how many times has she been bred?

Almost all of my other dogs has been placed in nice loving homes. Right now, I have 3 female pitbulls. 1 has already earned her title and I'm still campaigning the other 2. Porsche is 1.8 yrs old, Queen is 1.7 yrs old, and Gypsy almost 4 mos old. As of now, I have no plans to breed. I'm still enjoying my dogs. In the near future perhaps.

For me, it is not ethical to breed your bitch every season. I believe that no person who truly loves their dogs will ever subject them to such cruel treatment. They're very different from livestock animals and they should not be treated as such.

[animalcrackers]

Even "livestock animals" (in quotations because livestock animals vary from culture to culture) don't deserve to be treated in a mediocre or bad way just because a person doesn't see them as companion animals.

[Bowowee]

Even "livestock animals" (in quotations because livestock animals vary from culture to culture) don't deserve to be treated in a mediocre or bad way just because a person doesn't see them as companion animals.

True.

[Boemy]

Regarding show kennels with massive amounts of dogs . . . IMO, dogs should be a part of the family. People shouldn't get so many that they can't give them individual attention . . . Not just grooming and exercise (although those are important too!), but also love. Having several dogs is fine, but having 43 in kennels who never see the inside of the house is not, IMO, regardless of the quality of food they get or how many ribbons they've won. (I ran across a few kennels like this when I was looking into labrador breeders.) Dogs want to be part of the family!

[rabbitsarebetter]

trust me... i agree Boemy :(

[wolfsoul]

I think it depends --- for instance, my Belgian had one puppy for her first litter. An average Belgian litter is 6-8. If I had wanted to I wouldn't have hesitated to breed her again on her next heat. A singleton litter in a large breed that normally has a good sized litter is not taxing on the dog's body. She only carried milk in two of her nipples and was in perfect physical shape.