Nervous Dog

[*Paul]

Hi all,

My 1 year old dog (Terrier) is so nervous and it seems impossible to get him out of it. He barks at every noise, our neighbour has complained on one occasion due to his barking. We watch him whenever he is in our garden now to make sure he doesn't bark to much, this has stopped our neighbours complaining but it is by no means a permanent solution.

In addition, he barks at cars, barks if we make a noise upstairs, he most certainy doesn't like other dogs (except our other dog) and even gets nervous when people pass him in the street. I nearly made a serious error on my part recently, i was walking my dogs when one of them messed. I bent over to pick it up without a thought, as i did a lady past me on the path and he jumped forward and nipped her on the ankle. I was so embarrassed and appologised prefusely, she was ok about it, but it could have quite easily been more serious. I never thought in a million years he would do that, it is my fault, but i need to do something about it. I don't want him put down because he bites someone, and i don't want him biting my 21 month old daughter (for the record, he adores her, but i don't want to make a mistake and trust him).

I have a "Gentle Leader" that i initially used to control his pulling, but i stopped using it. I am thinking about using it again for better control over him, but this cannot really be considered a permanent solution, i am not even sure whether it is counter productive using one.

Any helpful advice would be great

Many thanks
Paul

[Doberluv]

When did you get this dog? It sounds like he wasn't socialized enough. It's usually imperative that ample exposure to ALL kinds of things and people is done by the time they're 16 weeks old in order to develop their personality. After that, you've missed your chance. You can try doing more now, but you'll have to go slowly....introducing things from a distance, to desensatize him. Teach him to watch you (eye contact gives him a treat). Then take him somewhere....pet store parking lot and let him see dogs/people, but from a distance. Get him to watch you as soon as he alerts but before he barks. Praise and treat him for paying attention to you and NOT barking. Do this for a long time until he can see those things/people without becoming unglued. Then gradually move closer to these.

I'd work on obedience training every day to get him to really respect you. Make it fun, rewarding and unthreatening. He needs to learn to follow your rules and this is the best way.

I'd be worried about him biting your child too. Either he didn't get enough socialization or he just has a poor temperament. I hope this can be fixed. You may want to get a certified, reputable behaviorist to help you. Good luck and keep us posted.

[*Paul]

Hi Doberluv,

We have had our nervous dog Harley since he was six weeks from a rescue centre, so we don't know his history. He has a beautiful tempriment at home, she is just so jumpy outside near others.

We have socialised him a bit, he has attended 2 complete courses on puppy training, and we have another older dog that he is fine with. We have let his training slip since his courses because he had a problem with his leg (not really an excuse), but he has suffered a problem called leg parthes so they had to remove part of his ball joint. He has been too nervous to put his leg down so we have spent so lots of time and money taking him to hydropherapy classes. Anyway he finally seems on the mend now.

Anyway, I have taken you advice because i want to nip it in the bud before it goes any further. I am going to go out each morning before work to train him in the local field, and we have a behaviour specialist (who ran the puppy class) coming around saturday for 2-3hrs to carry out an assessment.

We are determined to be commited to this and hope we make progress. I will let you know how we get on.

Thanks
Paul :eek:

[Doberluv]

Well, you and he have been through a lot and I'm glad to hear his leg is getting better. Yes, it is vastly important to saturate them with socialization very, very early on, from the time you get them and onward. I mean, like every day or almost, taking them somewhere to expose them to something/someone new. I hope the behaviorist will have some good help for you. That is good that you are trying so hard. I do hope progress will be made. Best wishes.

[*Paul]

The regular training and exercise of my dog Harley seems to be paying off. He is alot more obedient now, undistracted he will respond correctly to most commands i give him. On the field when there is a little distraction he is a little more work, but he is developing well.

The aggression to other dogs is a bit more of a struggle. I am training to walk to heel and he is doing very well. During lead control when we come across other dogs, with a tug on the lead from me and with the aid of a tit bit for distraction i am able to keep him calm until the dog passes (on most occasions that is); so this is certainly progress. However, i have had an incident when my hand came into contact with his mouth again, that smarted a little. I can't completely blame him, as under strict instruction from the behaviourist i should not socialise him directly with other dogs, well this is hard to achieve when others let there dog come up to us off the lead. Anyway, i was for the most part keeping him calm with the other dog around, but the owner then came over and chatted to me. i got distracted and waved a treat in front of his nose whilst the other dog crossed his path. He lurched forward snapping and bit my hand.

But not counted the above incident his progress is good. Funny thing is after my dog going for this other persons, she still insists on coming over and let her dog great us. It is serving in some way as good, because todays meeting was a little less controlled and a lot less agressive.

My main aim is to be in the position where i am able to socialise him again at dog training classes.

regards
Paul

[Doberluv]

I'm not sure at this late time in his life, that he'll get the needed socialization. That needs to take place in the first 4 months of his life. You can keep trying, but that which he missed out on, didn't get in his brain while his personality was developing. In addition to trying to socialize him (forget the dog to dog thing) but with people, I would definitely impliment the NILIF training program. Don't ever be harsh because he does sound nervous. Does he show body language that looks like fear when he bites at you or someone else? Here's the link for that NILIF. It's very good. I highly recommend it. Do all the suggestions. http://www.sspca.org/Dogs_TANSTAAFL.html

Keep working on basic obedience commands every day....a couple times and throughout the day inside....just little things.

[Renee750il]

Sounds like you've got a Terrier with a Terrier temperament, Paul. Some Terriers are never good with animals that don't belong in the family. We had one like that. She didn't like strangers worth a flip either! Oddly, though, she was good with kids. She put up with all sorts of odd things - letting us dress her up, rolling her around in a doll buggy . . .

Keep in mind, Terriers are the only group that isn't automatically disqualified for showing aggression toward other dogs in the ring! They are game little dogs when properly bred.

A regular halter will give you more control over him without the potential for neck injuries that some of the more esoteric ones have. Keep your expectations reasonable - you do have a Terrier, not a Basset after all - and keep working with him and the two of you will do just fine.

It won't hurt a bit either to start teaching your little daughter to tell her doggie to "Sit." That tells him he has to mind her as well as you. And it will tickle her no end. Terriers are born clowns and he'll enjoy her laughter as she puts him through his paces.

[Doberluv]

Terriers are the only group that isn't automatically disqualified for showing aggression toward other dogs in the ring!

I don't think any dog is disqualified for showing aggression toward other dogs...just toward people.

Quoted below are the two issues of temperament discussed in the AKC Standard for the Doberman. These areas are shyness and aggression. Either, if improperly displayed, will result in the Doberman being disqualified or excused from the ring.

"The judge shall dismiss from the ring any shy or vicious Doberman."

Shyness - A dog shall be judged fundamentally shy if, refusing to stand for examination, it shrinks away from the judge; if it fears an approach from the rear; if it shies at sudden and unusual noises to a marked degree.

Viciousness - A dog that attacks or attempts to attack either the judge or its handler, is definitely vicious. An aggressive or belligerent attitude towards other dogs shall not be deemed viciousness."

I believe that is true of any breed. Dog to dog aggression is just not the same as dog to human. They realize this and allow for it. Of course, handlers must keep their dogs under control.

[Renee750il]

That was a discussion I was listening to during one of the Westminster shows a few years ago, Doberluv - after a fight broke out in the ring between a couple of the Terriers ;) I had run across it before but hadn't really paid that much attention to it, having little interest in AKC business for so long ;)

Here's an interesting little tidbit: in Fila showing, any shyness or timidity is a disqualification, but the Fila is not required to allow the judge to touch!

[*Paul]

Doberluv,
thanks for the link, i am trying it already. I don't mean to sound thick but i don't fully understand your reply to me. Harley has been socialised at 4 months by going to obedience classes, it just lapsed in the last 4 months because of his leg injury. Anyway, you reply like all is lost and he will alway be a bad dog. He is actually great in all other way and lovely with my daughter, he just hates other dogs. He would never intentionally bite me, but it may happen by accident with me getting in the way. I could avoid any risk by simply restraining him with a mussle whenever he goes out . I want a permanent measure though, not just avoidence. Your reply has got me a little down, are you saying all is lost and i am better off sending him back to the pound. I have to try with him, i do feel that everything is resolved with a little work, but then i am wet behind the ears and no expert with training dogs.

Many thanks for your responses.

[*Paul]

Sorry Doberluv,
I didn't read part of your other post properly. I personally think he is nervous, the behaviourist however thinks differently. I do, however think i have been misleading in my description, Harley is nasty to other dogs, he is not to people though. As stated at the very beginning of this post he did lurch forward at a lady who startled him from behind, but other than that, when strangers approach he nearly falls over his bum is wagging so much. He is only hostile to a person if you get in the way of him and another dog, and even then he is looking through you to see the dog. The lady who approached me on the field with her dog was fine with him, he was licking her hands, he just rared up when her dog came to close. Don't get me wrong, i am not dismiss the fact that he has biten my hand, but it sounds as though you have the impression i couldn't social him anywhere in public what so ever. I could happily walk him around the crowded town centre, so long as there wasn't an approaching dog.

thanks again for all your valuable advice.

Paul

[*Paul]

Renee,
Thanks for your response. Our dog sounds very similar to your in tempriment. He is amazing with our daughter, she is 21 months old and she is always playing about with him (supervised by us). I am seeing some great developments with him, i will just have to keep trying and keep taking valuable advice from others.

kind regards
Paul :)

[Doberluv]

Paul,

I'm so sorry. I must have indeed misunderstood your post. I didn't realize it was ONLY a dog to dog problem. The nervousness and so forth that you described made me think that you had a problem with nervousness around people and biting. No, I don't think all is lost at all.

The socializing I talk about is something that should be started at 8 weeks or so....when you first typically get your pup and should be well on it's way by the time the dog is about 4 months of age and then continued. For instance, puppies who are never exposed to a large variety of people, enviornments, objects etc during those first couple of months don't seem to develop properly. That is a critical time for their little personalities to get established. And if they establish their personalities based on no experiences, then that is kind of where they tend to get stuck. That's it. Their brain pathways are developed.

So, the dog thing...I guess would require a desensatization process.

Sorry for misreading your post. Maybe Creature Teacher will have some more specific advice for you.

Renee...that is interesting that the Fila doesn't need to be touched by the judge. Wow. I guess there must be different rules for different breeds. I don't know much about it either...the AKC rules. I somehow thought though, that the dog to dog aggression was OK.

[Doberluv]

I went back to the first page and re-read your post. Here is the part that must have made me think you had a problem, that looked like your dog wasn't well socialized, being nervous about so many things...noises upstairs, people walking on the street, cars etc. A well socialized dog is accustomed to those types of every day things and doesn't react that way... and it sounded as though you were worried about him biting someone, including your daughter. Biting people IS a different thing than biting dogs. A dog should NEVER bite a person, regardless of what is in their heads. :eek: We don't like dogs to bite people, do we.

In addition, he barks at cars, barks if we make a noise upstairs, he most certainy doesn't like other dogs (except our other dog) and even gets nervous when people pass him in the street. I nearly made a serious error on my part recently, i was walking my dogs when one of them messed. I bent over to pick it up without a thought, as i did a lady past me on the path and he jumped forward and nipped her on the ankle. I was so embarrassed and appologised prefusely, she was ok about it, but it could have quite easily been more serious. I never thought in a million years he would do that, it is my fault, but i need to do something about it. I don't want him put down because he bites someone, and i don't want him biting my 21 month old daughter (for the record, he adores her, but i don't want to make a mistake and trust him).

I would just keep working at socializing, taking him places, having pleasant experiences, getting his attention on you when you see something ahead of time that might bother him, praise him for watching you and acting calm...that sort of thing. Don't overwhelm him, but get him out and about every day and make him think it's a party. Good luck.

[Doberluv]

I thought I'd rephrase something I said. I said that a dog doesn't react to noises and cars and such by barking. That is not what I meant. My dogs bark at cars going by on the street and some noises in the house. But they're not particularily nervous. I think they're simply sounding an alarm that there's an intruder in the street. LOL. If I slam something in another room that sounds unfamiliar to them, (the Chi's) they'll tend to bark for a moment until I say, "It's just me." LOL. So, I guess I must be getting some feeling from your post that what you're seeing is not normal, that your dog is overly upset or something. Maybe I'm reading that wrong. My Chi's tend to bark a lot more reactively than my Doberman. He's more the type who watches and assesses first and then barks if he really thinks he needs to. He has been barking a lot more lately by the window at night. I think the bears are beginning to come down off the higher elevations and it is possible that there is one hanging around outside. I did see bear signs in my pasture and down on the road, which is about 500 feet away. Also there are deer around. So, he does get quite vocal about those things. :confused:

[Debi]

I know the general rule is to socialize early, which I agree with. However, my GSD was not socialized at all from the time I got him. I personally never gave it a thought that we didn't see people. I only realized the problem when I walked him to a neighbor's house and he freaked out. Since then, I've been working with him slowing...introducing him to noise, outings, and other people. He is almost 1 1/2 years old and coming along fine. It is never beyond hope....I would never agree to that thinking. You keep up the good work! :) I just took my dog to the vet last Sat., and he was just slightly timid when the vet first started to examine him....then he was fine. He did well around everyone in the waiting area. I was pleased. Only a couple people encouraged me to still work with him, and I'm glad I listened. If someone were to tell me he may still not be friendly to everyone, well then so be it..I'm very careful with him. :)

[Renee750il]

Renee...that is interesting that the Fila doesn't need to be touched by the judge. Wow. I guess there must be different rules for different breeds. I don't know much about it either...the AKC rules. I somehow thought though, that the dog to dog aggression was OK.

The ojeriza is a required part of the Fila temperament, and 'hard' dogs are highly prized by the Fila purists as they are the classic standard. Although the dog must be utterly trustworthy and devoted to the owner or handler, it is not expected to tolerate being handled by a stranger. There are some organizations that have bred the temperament down, but these are full of unethical breeders who are turning out a 'product' that they can sell to more people! :mad:

[Doberluv]

The ojeriza is a required part of the Fila temperament, and 'hard' dogs are highly prized by the Fila purists as they are the classic standard.

Does that mean hard? Can you describe that word? That is interesting about their temperament.

[Doberluv]

Critical Socialization: Here is a good explanation of what goes on during a puppy's development and the importance of early socialization:

http://www.dogscouts.com/socialize.shtml

[Renee750il]

Ojeriza doesn't translate completely, but the basis of it is an innate distrust of strangers. There's a thread in the Breeds forum with a good explanation of it. I'll find it and add it to this post.

http://www.chazhound.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5105&postcount=4

[Doberluv]

If you trespass, the Fila will accost you and refuse you passage. Don't push the issue. You won't like the result.

LOVE THAT!!! That is a really good description. What a formidable breed!

[*Paul]

Doberluv,

Sorry, i think my posts have been a little misleading. After reading back i paint a bad picture. When i set about starting this post i was blowing things all out of proportion and i made everything sound terrible. Harley is not really a problem dog, he just needs plenty of time from me and my family. The main great issue with harley is the way he reacts around other dogs. He barks in the home, but exactly in the fashion you say your dog does. He will bark at load sudden noises, but it isn't prolonged barking. The postman sets him off but again this seems to be the norm. He does bark at cars but only on occasions, if i am training him to walk to heel with treats he won't even notice a passing car. He is excited when people approach him in the street, and licks there hands. When i take him to the vets, they prod him and pick him up and he won't ever growl.

It is only the one real issue, he hates other dogs and would certainly bite out at anything that got inbetween him and that dog, including my hand. Over the last month i have been able for the most, to distract his attention from the dog and onto me (well the treat i am holding anyway). So this must be progress.

Paul