Grooming long haired dogs

[bumhouse]

I had Colt groomed yesterday. He bit the groomer - but that's another thread in the Puppy Forum....

Now that I'm looking at him - I think she trimmed his hair!!! (Colt is a Collie). Is this normal? Did she need to do this? I want his hair to grow long!!

What is the standard for grooming dogs that have long coats?

[FoxyWench]

it depedns on the breed, ive never owned a collie let alone groomed one but i guess is like wiht the cockers.
as puppies good grooming is important if you want the hair to grow strong. just like with people the hair gets damaged and split ends occur, regular trimming helps strengthen the hair and keep it healthy as it grows longer.
so yes i would assume its normal to trim the pups hair to keep it growing right and healthy.

as for a standard for longhaired dogs, each breed is different.
i have long haired chihuahuas, they are long haired but dont need any real specific grooming, a comb out once a week keeps tanlges at bay and a quick very light trim keeps them looking neat and tidy mabe once every 6 months or so...
where as our cocker is a little more upkeep, once again long haired, but he requires combing every other day and a good shavedown and trim every 4-6 weeks to keep him in a cocker cut.

also each breed has a different coat cut standard, how exactly the coat is shaped ect. so upkeep will also vary with breed.

[bumhouse]

Thanks for replying.

I see your point. I never really thought about a dog getting a "trim" but it certainly makes sense.

[rabbitsarebetter]

well, i work for a show collie kennel, i do the grooming and personally i have NEVER heard of giving a collie a trim unless its on his feet, head, ears, hocks, etc, and usually all of that but the feet are just done for show dogs anyway.

collies should be line brushed weekly. i like to brush them a little everyday on the skirt and pants just to keep out nots and dirt

[planet molosser]

Well if she found a mat she may of cut it out and trimmed it back.
When I worked on some Collies in rescue I either shaved them down as per request for summer cuts badly matted dogs.

Or like others say just trim the feet hocks and sanitary..

[bumhouse]

No, no mats on this Collie, I brush him regularly. Collie coats can keep them cool in the summer too. No summer cuts for us.

Could she have thinned his hair or something? When I brush him I use a wire brush, but I have seen those strippers, could she have used something like that. I noticed this on his back, no where else. I understand the feet, hocks, ears, etc. But the back? I'm no expert but I never heard of this. I didn't think I needed to specify "no haircuts" but I guess everyone has their own style. You live and you learn - it's hard to find a good groomer in my area. A lot of people think Collie's need a lot of maintenance, but Colt never sheds. I know he will lose his coat once or twice a year, but not on a regular basis.

[bumhouse]

Excuse my ignorance, but what is "line brushing'?

[planet molosser]

We had one as a kid during the Lassie era.
After 2 hrs of primping Lad decided to jump into Flushing meadow park lake.
You should of heard my dad cursing LOL.

Yes she could of use a harsh stipper I reserved for GSD that are so heavy coated.

You can request no Cutting or stripping.
Trimming of the anal area, feet only ..

Or how about a self service salon that lets you use the stuff ?
wouldnt that be fun?

[bumhouse]

Well, at least now I know what to ask for.....

Now that would be a class to start, except what groomer would teach it as it would mean losing some business!! Call me dumb, but stuff like that IS hands on. I don't think you can just read a book and then try it on your dog, at least I can't. Now if I got to watch - now that's a different story......I can learn anything that way. I have never heard of a self service salon around here - are you serious or only joking?

So next time I say - NO CUTTING OR STRIPPING EXCEPT FOR THE ANAL AREA

[rabbitsarebetter]

line brushing. well..
part the hair starting at the back, spray with water, then brush from the root out.
repeat this every eight of an inch, always brush against the grain. it will take you about an hour and a half at first until you get good at it.

btw, you will use a pin brush for this. and that is also how you get your collie to grow a coat :)

[planet molosser]

NO LOL they are called doggies washs some are next to car washes.

And Petco has a self service one in NY that i know of..

Normally they charge more for cutting .

So you do NOT want a GROOM price

You want a BATH price .. You can ask for a bather vs a groomer.

Some groomers get scizzor or stripper happy.

Bathers brush your dog out , clean ears, trim nails , bath dog,
dry dog, and trim anal area for trimmer as well as feet.

Also bath and brush is $10 cheaper on your breed than a GROOM.

As long as the dog is NOT matted they should NOT charge you extra.

Unless you want a special shampoo or conditioner.

Hope this helps.

[bumhouse]

Get out of town!!:yikes:

Well, we must be in the dark ages here.

I feel taken advantage of!! She did charge me $10 more this time!! Should I be mad at her or my own stupidity for not specifying - but I did say "the usual". I'm thinking I just shouldn't go back to her but where to go, where to go??

Are you a groomer? Thank you for all the info. I have learned so much on here thanks to people like you who share their knowledge.

[rabbitsarebetter]

i dont understand at all why they would trim colt!

good luck!

[bumhouse]

Oh yes, Rabbits, that is what I use - a "pin" brush, not a wire brush. But I have never brushed that way. Thanks - I'll try that.

[rabbitsarebetter]

if you want a good coat thats deffinally the way to go. and the dogs learn to enjoy the attention. they all fall asleep when i do it

[bumhouse]

Me neither, Rabbits, I am crushed. I made up my mind - I am not going back to her. I will begin searching for a new groomer tom.! Hopefully, he has fast growing hair like me. I don't think it is noticable except to me, it just feels different, shorter or thinner or something. And I want so much for it to grow REEAAAALLLLLLYYYYY long!!

[rabbitsarebetter]

how old is colt now?

[bumhouse]

Sorry, I was away - he will be eight months next week.

[rabbitsarebetter]

you will not see the big collie coat until he is a year or so.
but yeah, the line brushing makes a world of diffrence.

and did you know that if you brush his hair dry that you are breaking it??
thats why you should always mist it with water first

[rabbitsarebetter]

before he gets that long coat you want to see he will blow his coat. oh buddy hair will be everywhere and he will look bald!

i cant wait to see him with a mature coat!

[bumhouse]

No, I didn't know that. Now I'm starting to feel bad. When will he lose his coat, any specific time period or it could be whenever?

[rabbitsarebetter]

i have heard it depends on what season they are born in. but i say when they are a year old.

[Laurelin]

Be sure with a long haired breed, especially a really naturally groomed breed like a sheltie or a collie (or a pap) that you specify NO TRIMMING. I've had them try to shave Trey (sheltie) cut off the feathering on a dog and ask to cut off Beau's ear hair. O.o Be very careful. These kinds of breeds need minimal trimming- just around the feet usually. Some groomers seem to go scissor happy. ;)

[bumhouse]

I have found this out the hard way. I will ALWAYS specify now!! Thanks. I should have consulted the experts at Chaz before I took him anywhere but hey, you think, a groomer knows what they are doing. You trust them like you trust a vet. Not anymore.....

[otch1]

Hi Bumhouse... there is never any scissoring on a Collie, unless for some reason, it's requested by the owner. If you see what looks like a "thinned' coat on the back only, he's probably blowing his coat so they decided to take a shedding blade and take a lot of it out. A shop consistently doing pet grooming, will do this. You should be able to tell if scissors were taken to your dogs' coat. If not, I'd call and ask them. Most shops have a computer and when multiple groomers are working they make their entries on what was done this visit, in your file, add the price and then print receipt. It's important that you let them know you're concerns. If they hand-scissored your dog without permission, they should refund a portion of your bill. This saves the next owner from having the same problem.

[Laurelin]

You have to watch though, because here I suppose many collie/sheltie owners shave their dogs in the summer that the groomers almost act like it's the expected cut for collies and shelties. Yikes... I can't imagine my two bald. I somehow think Trey would look a little odd shaved...

[wehkah]

I help groom collies also and I have to agree with the advise that Rabbits gave.

An added note, when Colt begins to loose/blow his coat he'll start to get tuffs of hair sticking out. Looks like someone stuffed cotten sections in his fur. The best advise I can give you on taking care of the blowing coat is to get a slicker brush and have at him a good 2-3 times in that week until it's all gone. And you must brush against the grain in order to get it all. What usually works best is to grab a tough of hair hold it straight out/up and brush like you are going to be ratting it. This lifts up the top coat so that you can expose the undercoat to brush out. You'll want to get that undercoat out so that it doesn't cause matting.

I would never summer cut/shave a collie. They need their hair for a reason. By stripping them of their top coat when they shead their undercoat leaves their bodies with no protection from the elements until their undercoat comes back. In some extreme cases it's necessary like if the dog had infections, hotspots or some kind of skin irritation where it would be benificial to do so.

[bumhouse]

Wouldn't I know if Colt was losing his coat? Would I see hair all over? It's possible she noticed something I didn't and thinned it for me, I'm not sure. Just the fact that I'm uncomfortable asking her about it says something I think.

[ToscasMom]

I posted a question about Tosca's ears. She mats behind her ears constantly. It can get out of hand very quickly for me because she loves her slicker, her rake, her brush, but she HATES me messing with her ears in grooming. Does anybody know a product I can use to untangle behind her ears that will make it easier? I hate the thought of mats getting bad enough to need to be cut out.

[ToscasMom]

Incidentally Bumhouse I totally agree. Tosca hardly sheds at all! She was blowing her puppy fur in the fall and I just brought her to the groomer. I can honestly say I am amazed at how little she sheds.

I was told she would blow her coat in spring and fall.

[dawgsmom]

Hi,

At the salon I work at we sometimes will do what is called a "trim all over" on collies, shelties, golden retrievers, etc. Basically, we bathe them, blow them out, brush them and then trim around the butt, the tail, the hocks and even out the hair on the belly. We DO NOT cut the hair on the back. Sometimes we may thin out around the chest if there is a lot of hair. But, with our dryers we blow out a lot of the undercoat and then brush them. That will get rid of a lot of hair. We will not do a trim all over if we are not asked specifically by the client to do so. Next time you take Colt to the groomer make sure you specify that you just want him bathed and brushed.

Dawg's Mom

[ToscasMom]

Colt, the same thing happened to me. I recently got her groomed and I expected the same thing I got last time. Well I got more than I bargained for, and that is the exact same word I used: Crushed. Tosca's beautiful mane is a shadow of its former self. I was horrified and am just now getting used to it, after nearly two weeks. I never expected them to do this and I was absolutely speechless when I picked her up, if you can possibly imagine me being speechless. She wasn't matted and all I asked for was a bit of thinning of her butt hairs, the hair between the toes trimmed, stuff like that, same as last time. They stipped her undercoat so that I can actually see the skin when I move her hair on her back! All that beautiful fur she had grown in, foiled. Apparently, this kind of grooming is just what most collie people want, well I am not one of them. I was horrified and I know just how you feel. I can't even find a way to fluff the hair on the sides of her neck to give her a mane look there again. Just terrible.

I only discussed this in PM with one person, I was so upset I couldn't even post about it till now. I am STILL upset and prefer to pretend it didn't happen.

Edit: I didn't realize this wasn't just posted. It was bumped by the previous post. But it's the truth so I finally said it. There you have it. The groomer ruined my dog.

[Kmh1]

What a shame! How long will it take for her thick long hair to grow back? What did you say to them when you picked her up?
I'm so glad to know all this if I get a long haired breed some day... btw I'm sure Tosca is still quite the glamour girl even with her shorter new look!

[ToscasMom]

kmh, I don't know how long it will take but her coat is a shadow of its former self. When I picked her up, if you can possibly believe it, I was speechless. That feeling like when you almost get hit by a car.

[MafiaPrincess]

Have you since told them, that what you asked for wasn't what they did? Even if I couldn't that day, I'd be pretty emphatic later about it. That trimming bum hair is not stripping your dog down as far as they possibly could...

[ToscasMom]

Mafia, they just aren't going to ever see me or my dog again. I swear Tosca has some kind of IBM cut. I bet plenty of people who don't want to do a lot of brushing of their collies love what was done to Tosca. I just don't happen to be one of them. I expected NO scissors to touch my dog.

[Zoom]

I would still give them an earful and let them know just how badly they messed up.

[ToscasMom]

I know you're probably right Zoom, but nothing will be achieved since i can't put Toscas fur back and nothing they say will ever bring me back there. They will call me at the three month mark to remind me she's due and THEN I will tell them that there is no sense since she hasn't grown enough hair back since the last slaughter. I'm a timing person. It's just the way I am. lol.

[MafiaPrincess]

That's not a bad tactic.. I didn't realize they'd call you at any point. If my vet were to ever call rather then send crap in the mail to remind me of HW testing, that's when I'd tell them how horrible my last visit was, why and that I'd changed vets..

[ToscasMom]

I love the shock effect of good timing.

[Melissa_W]

Mafia, they just aren't going to ever see me or my dog again. I swear Tosca has some kind of IBM cut. I bet plenty of people who don't want to do a lot of brushing of their collies love what was done to Tosca. I just don't happen to be one of them. I expected NO scissors to touch my dog.

ROFL! That almost made me spit out my beer! My boyfriend works at IBM...

In all seriousness though, poor Tosca! I can't imagine Kai without his fancy pants and mane. His prance just wouldn't look the same! That's why I'm afraid to take him to a groomer.

[ToscasMom]

LOL Melissa, we always called gardens IBM if they were too symetrical and perfectly clipped because of IBM's park. It's the IBM cut vs. Naturalization.

[Kmh1]

I know I would be devastated too! I know its only hair, but I have to admit I'm guilty of being a bit vain when it comes to my animals ( I can be a total mess, but darn it my dog or my horse had better look good if I have anything to say about it LOL!
I'm sure everything will grow in as lush as ever--its probably (hopefully!)
no where near as long a process as growing out a horses mane and tail---that can literally take years--- of course horses usually mess it up themselves---if someone did that without my permission ugggg!!!!
On a totally unrelated but equally important note--that penguin clip in your siggy has provided me the most unbelievable amount of giggles over the past few days! It cracks me up Every. Single. Time! LOL. Where on earth did you find that awesome gem?
And remember as hard as it is, it really IS only hair and I'm sure the diva collie will work it into her image---the sassy shorter "do" followed by her dramatic full mane comeback! I can sense Tosca scripting this now....

[ToscasMom]

Yeah Tosca doesn't care. I do. In fact, most people who never saw her before wouldn't notice probably. But I do. I know what was there and i know what is gone and I too feel a sense of vanity over this as well, so I can relate! She just turned 1 last month so she accumulated her marvelous, albeit gone-now coat fairly fast, so my fingers are crossed. I just feel the most awful when I look at her head square on and the sides are so un-maned. Tosca does plan to do a post on her blog about it as soon as I cool down. lol.

A friend sent me the penquin clip when we were jovially arguing a point back and forth. Feel free to copy it. It IS a chuckle and says sooooo much.

[LhasaLover]

I can totally empathize with you, ToscasMom. I have a Lhasa Apso that I keep long haired because I love her hair, but the problems I've had with groomers is beyond ridiculous.

She's just a pet so I cut her little bangs myself so we can see her eyes thru the fringe - I tell the groomer to only trim between & just under her eyes and just down the top bridge of her nose (plus the usual feet, mustache & hygiene trims, and ear plucking).

So, what do they do?????

- Her first groomer who she'd been going to for a year & a 1/2 shaved up her head over her eyes for about an inch, taking off all that long hair across the front of her head there. I was literally nauseous for weeks, and it took a year to grow it back to the right length. :mad:

- The new groomers since we moved to a new state, shaved down the sides of her nose in December, even tho I now include a typewritten list of exactly what they're supposed to do & not do. Now we're having to grow that back out to the length of her beard; that'll probably take another year. :rolleyes:

- Quite a few of them just can't understand why I don't shave her down, and one wanted to give her a Cocker Spaniel cut, with the shave down the backbone? WHO does that to a Lhasa???

The one place in town that I want to get her into, doesn't take any new customers - she doesn't even answer her phone! She specializes in small dogs & has customers with standing appts for years. I've seen her work around town and the dogs she does are beautiful. You can tell at first glance they have an excellent groomer.

So, I've decided it's time I learn to do this myself, even tho I've never wanted to. I get too nervous that I'm going to hurt her. I trimmed her toenails once when she was little and accidentally cut one of them too short so it bled... I almost barfed I was so horrified. :(

But I stumbled on a video on grooming a pomeranian at YouTube, of all places, and the way she showed to hold their feet & legs while you're trimming them, and how to cut their nails, really, really helped me. I just finished doing it the second time, and it was better than the first time! lolol

http://videopokerjunkie.com/images/HPIM0241.JPG

[ToscasMom]

Well I admire your bravery. The thing is, I don't feel confident grooming her without going to a professional now and then. I just didn't expect them to scissors her like that. Makes me sick. Her beautiful mane is a shadow of itself now. From now on, I plan to have them bath her and brush her out only. That will be my instruction. Keep your scissors in your pants or wherever you keep it, just keep it off my dog.