Questions about new grooming salon

[PamperedPooch]

Hello all,

I am seriously considering opening up a super high-end dog day spa/salon in a very upscale shopping center in California. I am a huge dog lover, of course, but do not have formal training in grooming. I have a few questions for those of you in the business if you don't mind:

1. How long does it take, on average, to groom a dog?
2. What is the average cost of a grooming in an upper middle-class neighborhood?
3. On average, what % of the overall cost does the groomer keep for commission?
4. How many groomers could work out of a 1100 square foot location assuming about 600 of that was dedicated for grooming, bathing, etc.
5. In addition to basic grooming, what services could be offered in a high-end dog spa (things like massages)?
6. Approx. how much money would it cost for the supplies and fixtures and what are some supplier names for very high quailty grooming equipment?

Thank you very much in advance.

Side note: If any of you are in the Northern CA area and would like to discuss coming on board, please let me know.

Thanks!

[Giny]

I’m not sure what other services you can offer but if you want repeat clients then most importantly you’d want:
1- Great grooming skills
2- Great customer skills, to the dog and owner
3- A very clean salon

Then you can figure out what extra services you can offer.

I would first find a very good grooming academy where you can get your grooming training. I would stick with them for as long as I can before grooming on my own, at least a year. Too many groomer want-a-be giving good groomers bad names. They think after being an apprentice for a few weeks makes them professional groomers and frankly it doesn’t. It would even be more advantageous to get your Master Groomer. That would be more beneficial then any other services given. Once you’ve groomed a while then you’ll be able to answer your own questions.

[terrier terror]

The only thing I can say in the thread is please, please learn how each terrier is groomed prior to grooming them. In fact, I say learn to strip, it's a great "extra service."

[SummerRiot]

I currently work at one of the only Pet stylist salons in my city.
First off - if you want a "high end" grooming salon - GO TO a reputable grooming academy and get a certificate saying that you are qualified to hang on your wall!!! Do NOT strip dogs, give dogs their breed style..

Every breed has a clip style (for clip breeds that is) and every natural has a "show" style that they need done.

I think before you even THINK about opening your own salon - Go around to a pet stylist and work along side them for a few yeras and learn the tricks of the trade. This is the ONLY WAY that you'll get experience under your belt. Just because you love dogs and cats, doesn't mean you know their specific breed styles. My boss that I work with worked with a professional groomer for 6 months UNPAID just to learn some of the ropes then she worked in a vet clinic for YEARS to get more experience.. she has only had her shop open for about 5 yrs or so and she has been grooming for a good 15 years now.

Etc - Bichons have their legs longer, their bodies shorter, their heads ROUND not oval, etc etc
Goldens have their ears trimmed to the edge and then thinned out, feet done in natural format etc etc.

Learn the individual BREED cuts and NOT a regular trim their body down to nothing cut. People wont pay big for their dog to be stripped right down...


1. How long does it take, on average, to groom a dog?
This depends on the breed, Poodles and Bichons take WAY longer then a Shih tzu or a Llasa Apso to get done. Standard poodles take the longest to do.

2. What is the average cost of a grooming in an upper middle-class neighborhood?
This depends on your grooming style as well and how many years you have of experience.

3. On average, what % of the overall cost does the groomer keep for commission?
This depends if you own the salon or not..

4. How many groomers could work out of a 1100 square foot location assuming about 600 of that was dedicated for grooming, bathing, etc.
Not sure how big the salon is that I work in for square feet..?

5. In addition to basic grooming, what services could be offered in a high-end dog spa (things like massages)?
Besides the obvious - bath, nails, clip, ears cleaned, teeth cleaned.. you could offer;
doggie day care
There are some people who are qualified in animal chiropractory as well as massages..
Maybe even Pet Portraits after their groomed?

6. Approx. how much money would it cost for the supplies and fixtures and what are some supplier names for very high quailty grooming equipment?
You are looking at spending thousands of dollars for high end machines. you'll need all of the different types of brushes for each breed, you will need floor dryers you'll need the supplies of kenneling the dogs, you'll need a high velosity dryer for the curly coated breeds as well as helping to dry the other breeds. you will also need HIGH QUALITY scissors as the low end scissors dont cut the same, your looking at sharpening your scissors and clippers a few times every few months as well to keep them at their best.

[terrier terror]

Do NOT strip dogs, give dogs their breed style..

Learn the individual BREED cuts and NOT a regular trim their body down to nothing cut. People wont pay big for their dog to be stripped right down...

One of the local groomers around me contacted our club's past president asking if she could help her because she started getting a lot of cairns/westies in. If I didn't know how to roll my dogs' coat or didn't know a handler/breeder, I would certainly pay to have a groomer do it. Healthier, and a hard coat is so much easier to care for.

Most owners that I know (who clipper) don't know the pro's and cons, and that's sad. Working in a salon, do you or anyone else talk with owners? If someone did come in wanting their dogs stripped, would you then be able to refer people to those who could help (ie: breed clubs, breeders, etc.) since I'm assuming you guys don't offer that?

[SummerRiot]

LOL miscommunication I think between us..

I'm talking about having their shih tzu sheared to the skin as in stripped..

Not "hand stripping".

Yes we offer hand stripping, but because its more time consuming there is an extra fee involved with it.

I personally LOVE the look of a hand stripped terrier compared to a clipped terrier ;)

Plus, any person who has a show terrier should NEVER clip their Parsons Russel for example. It should relaly only be hand stripped.

[terrier terror]

^ Ohhhh, my bad, sorry!

I'm going to blame my work.

[jason_els]

You don't have to be a good groomer to run a grooming salon. PP may be excellent at customer service, managing books, marketing and promotion.

What she does need is a head groomer who knows EXACTLY what the show clip is for every breed plus how a good summer coat can be accomplished that's attractive on every breed that may need one. Needs to know skin issues, signs of disease or abuse, and how every coat type needs to be addressed.

Basically this would be a two-person operation. PP acting as the store manager while the grooming manager manages the grooming itself. Could work out very well.

Being a good groomer doesn't make you a good business manager any more than being a good business manager makes you a good groomer. If you find the person who complements your skills and vice versa, then you have all the makings of a successful business.

Best of luck with your venture!

Standard poodles take the longest to do.
Ever cord a kom? :D

[SummerRiot]

Ever cord a kom? :D

LOL ok.. that definatly beats finishing a poodle lmao!

[otch1]

That's a big proposal, especially in your area, if you've never groomed proffessionally and have never owned a dog business/shop before. Familiar with Pet Paradise in Los Angeles? Reccommend you go to them (or call) and get all of your questions answered on licensing, grooming shop requirements and where you might be able to hire experienced groomers (who will mentor you, once in your shop) on how to set up shop and on additional services other shops are offering in your area. They are nice (and very successful) people in the business and I'll bet they'd be more than happy to give you valuable insight into opening your own business. Boarding, grooming, training, daycare, spa services and retail sales... check out their web site. Good luck!

[otch1]

Sorry... Paradise Ranch! (not Pet Paradise)

[jason_els]

A large part of such a business is taking care of the customers themselves.

For the upscale bunch I'd offer the following:

1. Emergency grooming/deskunking

2. A separate lounge area with a wall with a large long window partition seats to watch the groomers on the other side. Some people are allergic to dogs and having a separate, quiet place to watch the grooming gives people the security of watching their dogs wait without the noise and flying hair. Don't skimp on the furniture. Use high-quality leather lounge chairs with attractive furniture. Offer an internet terminal and wireless internet with an area for desk carrels with outlets for working people. Make sure they can get cell reception in the lounge. Supply lounge with several copies of CURRENT magazines and daily newspapers (including The Wall Street Journal and The New York Times). Be certain to have daily Variety! Even if you don't have celebrity/industry people yet, it pays to look like you do. A copy of Variety makes people think movers and shakers are your customers. Food should be high-quality baked goods, an espresso bar, fresh fruits, or even small finger sandwiches. Offer high-quality bottled waters, teas and coffees, sodas, and (depending on your laws) wine.

3. Door-to-door collection and return of dogs.

4. Refreshments for humans including complementary snacks and beverages.

5. Pet photography. After a complete groom a customer may choose to have his or her dog photographed in an area set aside just for photographs. Talk to a professional photographer with help selecting and configuring equipment. You can make high-quality prints on the spot.

6. Dog massage. Obvious but still a potential profit center.

7. Car cleaning. While the person waits you have someone vacuum and de-doghair, de-snot windows, and de-dogodorize the car.

8. Complimentary goody bags with a small flacon of whatever perfume you have used on the dog plus a clothes roller, breed-appropriate high-quality brush, business cards, coupons for customer and friends of the customer, some yummy doggie cookies from a professional dog bakery, a pamphlet giving information about the customer's breed(s) and ONE 4x5 photograph of the newly-groomed dog in a tasteful but basic frame saying, "From Your Friends at <insert establishment's name here>." Be sure the name of your establishment is on everything in that bag including the high-quality bag itself! Give this goody bag to every customer every time. They'll keep the first one but hand out the subsequent to their friends and associates.

9. Have a professional website created complete with online booking and webcam so an owner can watch his or her dog being groomed over the internet if he or she wishes. Even if a customer doesn't use it, it tells the customer you have nothing to hide when the customer is away. Integrate a system so that you can call, text, or email a customer when his or her dog is done.

10. Offer Preferred Customer cards good for discounts, preferred booking times, Preferred Customer-only obedience classes and other partner discounts with other pet-related businesses in the area. Give preferred customer cards to regulars, those with multiple dogs, and those who spend x-amount per visit. Do NOT hesitate to create an introductory packet complete with fold-outs and a name-engraved preferred card to the wealthiest and most influential people in your community including celebrities. If you know they live the area, go for it.

11. Remember your customers at holiday time. Send them a Christmas tree ornament of their dog's breed, doggie santa hats, and a personally signed card wishing them a happy holiday time. Do the same for the dog's birthday only with dog treats made to look like birthday cakes, a few noise makers, and a kong or plush toy. Should, in your routine customer contacts discover a dog has passed on, be sure to send a TASTEFUL condolence card to the owner.

12. Have a good selection of dog-related books and videos on breeds, training, and other dog-themed items. You can sell dog beds, OTC medications, bowls, mats, and a huge list of other things. Mirror these items and more on your website remembering to give every customer a card or refrigerator magnet that offers he or she a discount on items ordered online. Your Preferred customers get a bigger discount.

13. Dress very well and don't skimp on the decor. A business that charges top prices has to look like it; groomers included. Make sure groomers look presentable even under their aprons and smocks. You may want to give them uniforms of logo-embroidered polo shirts and ask they wear chinos or jeans and clean sneakers. Give each employee a few of these and more when asked because if they're of good quality they will likely wear them while off work as well or give them to kids and friends and thus promoting your business. You should always be wearing a tasteful suit.

14. Treat your employees very well. Since your customers will see and watch your employees they will want to see happy people at work. Relaxed and happy groomers make better groomers and put the dogs at ease. Be certain to give your groomers heavy discounts and free access to grooming facilities and free appointments for their dogs. Allow them to show the quality of their work at home and where ever their dog may be. Don't hesitate to allow them to schedule an appointment with another groomer. Your very best calling card is a happy employee with a stunning dog being asked, "Where do you get your dog groomed?" Be sure to give excellent finder fee incentives to your employees. If they can profit from the increase in your business then they will work harder to talk to people about what you have to offer. You may think that your groomers and your customers are completely different markets given the probable socio-economic differences, however you NEVER know who they know or how they know that person. The nice thing with incentives is if your employee doesn't refer then they don't get the incentive.

15. Be sure your business gives frequently to local animal groups and sponsor a K9 police dog or service dog training group in your locality. Lots of your customers will be on the boards or in some other way involved with such groups. Don't hesitate to say to a customer, "You are SO good with your dog! I can see you're a real dog person. Are you involved with any local animal assistance charities?," and then note down where your clients are contributing time and money.

15a. Be a sponsor for dog shows, junior handling competitions, agility shows, or canine good citizen training. Give enough to get your business name mentioned in the program. The bigger the show, the more you give.

16. The last is the most practical. Have a place for the dogs to relieve themselves before grooming starts. This may not be possible given the location you select but it's nice for the dogs and the owners. If the dog has been there for a long session, walk the dog afterwards or just before you let his or her hair down.

Charge them out the pooper for this white-glove service!

[otch1]

Hi Jason... you've never groomed or worked in a grooming shop have you? Some of your suggestions were just common sense, some practical but... leather furniture, bad idea in a humid environment. Espresso bar and food service, not practical in an 1100 square foot space with bath tubs, dog fur flying, requiring seperate ventilation and licensing that's not in her best interest when first trying to get off the ground. The grooming shop needing to sponsor a police dog or dog show and clients being board members? Actually, you'll find there's a large network of celebrity support for organizations like the ASPCA in CA, not the police dept. Charge customers "out the pooper"? Very naughty. Again, funny advice, but not very practical. You know why I'm picking on you, don't you? Because you were unnessecarily unkind to Spiritus. It's not nice to talk down to someone, (as I just did you). Just wanted to make a point. Lol! Actually, I hope you have a nice evening.

[otch1]

Well, put my foot in my mouth, Jason. Meant to say Spirit, not Spiritus. That's what I get for being naughty!

[jason_els]

She asked what she could offer. I told her. Whether it is practical to install separate HVAC systems is up to her. Targeting a market requires catering to the needs and desires of that market. She wanted upscale, I gave her upscale.

Spirit neglected one dog and now it's dead. Your attitude seems to be that since she's young and naive then it's OK. I don't think it is and I won't pretend it is. She puts her own desire to have dogs ahead of her ability to care for them and her dogs suffer the consequences. I think it irresponsible at best, criminal at worst, that some people in this forum encourage her when they should be helping her face reality. Her dogs will continue to live miserably and die prematurely until she does.

Nice way to hijack a thread. :rolleyes:

[PamperedPooch]

Jason,

Thanks for all the ideas. I actually thought some of them were wonderful ideas. For the record, I'm a male (yeah I know, not many guys get into this biz), and I WILL not be doing grooming myself. I will just focus on the sales/marketing of the effort. I'm wondering if I will need more square footage for an operation like this. How many square feet would I need for 4 groomers to work effectively and not run into each other?

Thanks again guys and gals for taking the time to respond to my questions.

Mark

[jason_els]

Mark,

Sorry to have misjudged your sex. It's happened to me online and it's always a bit uncomfortable. Didn't mean to emasculate you.

A lot will depend on how much you have to put in to this and matching your services to your market. If your market is capable of supporting this level of service then you will do well. Dogs are a reflection of ourselves and, for better or worse, are now a popular fashion accessory. Plenty of nouveau riche aren't secure about how to display their wealth, and believe that being rich means they have to show it off. One of the venues for doing that is via their beautifully groomed dogs and telling their friends things like, "Oh have you tried this wonderful new grooming salon? They are just wonderful!," and then they hand them your brochure hoping their friends will see your outrageous prices. These people surround themselves with handlers and assistants because the more money they get, the more insecure they become about how to handle their lives. Rightly or wrongly, they believe that the more money they spend, the happier their dogs will be. A high-end service business needs to serve the desires of this market. They need to be exclusive in service and price and offer frippery with perceived value. You're coddling the human more than the dog. Hell, dogs like to roll in manure, sniff butts, and eat poop. So long as they are healthy, they don't care terribly much how they look. What they respond to after grooming is the attention from the groomers and the enthusiasm their owners display after grooming. Your clients want to float in or out or have their assistant call you and drop the dog off. Between servants bringing in dogs and since you're doing door-to-door as well, you may not see the customer directly. That's why the goody bags and discounts and cards are employed. These are your contacts with the dog owner. When an assistant shows-up with a dog you treat them well, offer them the lounge area and complementary goodies. THEY get the good treatment and get to live, if a bit vicariously, like the dog owners would. If they have a good time and the god, er dog, comes out looking as good (or better) than any other salon in the area, then they'll tell their employer what a great grooming salon it is!

So yes, stick with the leather chairs in a separate climate-controlled area. Humidity is hell on people hair. Make sure the desk chairs are very comfortable.

I'm sure you know that part of being successful is looking successful. When a customer sees the high-quality items in your shop it reassures the customer that you're successful too and if you're successful then your services must be worth all the money they're spending. Be exclusive, a bit mysterious.

True story. A young, recent French widow from the rural provinces was left a life insurance policy by her husband who died unexpectedly. She didn't have any working skills, didn't know how she was going to provide for herself. She was raised in an upper middle class home and studied fairly esoteric subjects that wouldn't translate into marketable skills. She had kids, a big house to run, and a modest life insurance settlement that couldn't begin to support her.

She took all the money from the settlement and moved to Paris. She rented a commercial space in an up-and-coming arrondisement and worked to turn it into a nightclub. She poured nearly every Franc she had into it and then opened the doors.

Nobody came.

A few people wandered in to check it out but left quickly as nobody else was there. The woman was shocked and mortified. How would she live? How would she support her children? She was sure her nightclub would cater to the jet set if only they'd give her a chance. She knew how the upper crust lived, she'd ran into it in her provincial life, associating with chateau owners and vacationers at the trendy beaches nearby which she could also afford. Her friends in Paris came a few times but she couldn't generate buzz.

Then she decided to try something...

A few weeks later limousines full of the glitterati were packing into her nightclub. It was the talk of Paris. Jet setters came to her club and no other. She was in the black within a few months and became very rich down the road.

What happened?

Her nightclub became popular overnight. Night after night long limousines would pull-up in front of her nightclub and the dark glassesed passengers would be poured out, checked, and admitted. People on the street who tried to get in were turned away. There was always a sign out front that said, "Disco full" Everyone wondered, 'What is this place? I'm chic, I'm a socialite. If I can't get in then who is?' It became the talk of Paris. Royals were spotted, Onassis and Jackie were seen, but nobody could (or would) say just who was getting in to this hot new boit.

It was a sham.

What the woman did was gather her friends and hire a bunch of limousines every night. Her friends would dress up, put on costume jewelry and wear fake couture. The limos would drop them off in front and then circle around to the alley in the back. The supposed, "customers" changed their clothes inside the club, paired-up differently, and then got back in the limo to be redeposited some time later. There was an episode of I Love Lucy very much like this. She did this for a few nights, her bouncer being extremely careful not to admit ANYBODY, no matter who or how important they were, other than the limo passengers. After a few weeks of this the buzz was so intense that she opened the doors to the public and BANG! her market clambored for her service because she created the perceived value of exclusivity.

That woman was named Regine and hers was the first disco, eponymously named, to make disco cool among the society page set. Her example is studied in business schools all over the world. The world hasn't changed much. Create the buzz and you've got a market. You may even wish to try the same thing. Rent a limo or roller or two and get someone to deliver a few dogs during your busiest hours. They could be your friends, acting as assistants, delivering (or collecting) the dog of somebody too important and private to come themselves. When those customers have left, do it again. If you can't afford the limos/high-end car rentals, then have your friends come and have them appear to be assistants of some VIP. Having an assistant will raise a slight eyebrow but seeing a dog delivered in a roller or a limo or some other very high-end car will make a topic of conversation. "Do you know what I saw today? Some celebrity had a limo bring their dog to the grooming salon I was at!" This allows the customer to covertly brag about being in a grooming parlor celebrities use without seeming to be bragging. Their friends will tell others and others will tell others, more people will see these cars arrive and depart. There will be buzz. If people ask you whose dog that is, reply with a reserved smile and say, "I'm sorry but we have many clients who appreciate our discretion. I'm sure you can understand. Would you like a canape?"

THAT will make them feel like they shouldn't be able to afford your service and will work even harder to do so. Maybe they can't live like a F400, but they'll be damned if they can't get their dog groomed at the same place... and tell their friends that they do.

As a man you have an advantage. Rightly or wrongly, when a man runs an establishment like this, especially a well-groomed, attractively dressed man with the best shoes (women notice shoes!) he can possibly afford, then it conveys power to the largely female clientele. It's a psychological effect. How you bear yourself, how you look, what you wear, and what you drive must speak success to your clients. If you look like a serious business person then you are saying in an unspoken manner, that this isn't some rich chick going off on whim, this is the real deal. Be charming, flirt a bit, and welcome every return customer like a long-lost friend. Come out from behind the desk and walk to that person, smiling and greeting them with an outstretched hand. If you see a repeat customer approaching via your strategically placed front desk, pick up the phone and pretend to be talking to someone. As soon as the door opens say, "I'll have to call you back. Yes I know this is important but something just came up. I can't talk now." Hang-up, put a smile on your face and walk toward the customer. This will make him or her feel like a million dollars, feel special. That's the kind of personal value you and your staff have to exude to charge the eye-opening amounts you do. The world revolves around your customers and then their dogs.

I don't know the optimal space between stations as I'm not a dog groomer but suffice to say, the less croweded things are, the more elegant (and thus upscale) the space is. I'd also suggest a decor that suggests a gentleman's barber shop. Victorian carved oak station dividers, marble shelving, gas lamp style lighting. The look is understated elegance and reflects the masculine authority you lend to the service. The look is English but also the west of the old westerns and, as everyone knows, English elegance is in unquestionably good taste. Your space could appear as an English gentlemen's club barber.

[otch1]

Hi Mark, missed your post. Jason, yes... I did bring up an issue, irrelavant to this thread. (In part) but some of my critique over info you gave on opening a groom shop was sincere. You did not get my point and we've both gotten off track, so my apologies for initating that. About giving Mark practical advice on opening a grooming shop, I don't want to step on toes by commenting on previous post, so I will email you Mark about appropriate licensing, square footage, approx. prices, and other pertinent information that may be helpful, as I am in the industry and used to groom. Now doing it on a smaller scale at the commercial kennel I own. Still enjoy it though and I think it's a great idea, if you have the means to do it properly. So, will email that info and I hope you'll contact Paradise Ranch and go take a tour if you're in the area. Good luck!

[PamperedPooch]

You guys have both given me some amazing insight and perspective. I sincerely appreciate the time you have given me in responding to my questions.

Jason, that nightclub story was great! I couldn't agree more with the premise of the story and creating an "image" for my doggie spa is exactly what I intend to do. No offense to any groomers out there, but when I've taken my Yorkie into various groomers the past few years there are a few things that always seem to be in common with each establishment:

1. Noise level is very LOUD. It's not uncommon to walk in and literally have to yell at the attendant to communicate. Blowers are within an earshot and the groomers usually don't turn them off when customers walk in. I want to create an atmosphere of calm and quiet by strategically placing the grooming area in the back with air tight walls/doors.

2. Dirty/smelly. Obviously, when you're dealing with animals you are going to have hair, urine, feces, etc., in your shop. My goal is to have the cleanest salon that any customer has seen.

3. Lack of communication. A lot of times dogs are not groomed correctly because their is a lack of communication between the owner and the groomer. Many times this is because the groomers are super busy and/or it's very loud in there. Typically I've found that groomers, in general, are very good at what they do--grooming, but are not the best customer service people.

4. Expensive. In my area, I'm paying close to $50 for a Petco-type grooming service. Many times, they are booked and I'll have to call in a few days in advance to get an appointment. It's obvious that the market is there for high quality grooming salons and, in many cases, the supply can't meet the demand. My goal is to provide service well above and beyond what anyone would ever expect and charge 25-40% more than the Petcos of the world.

Jason made the point that the service is more for the human owner than the dogs. I couldn't agree more. If I make the service so ridiculously over the top, you can only imagine the word of mouth advertising that would happen. "Jane, you won't believe what they did to Teddy today at that new grooming spa. They gave him a 20 min. massage, cologne, etc., and the place looked like a spa for HUMANS it was so clean and pretty!"

Pretty soon you have a market that works! I also feel it's a win-win business for everybody. The dogs truly get treated like royalty, the owners are so happy their dogs look great and had a great time and they feel the extra money was well worth it. Basically, I'm trying to take an existing market and just do something better. From what I understand already, everyday mom and pops grooming shops still are very profitable as it is. I just want to take this to the next level.

Otch--that would be wonderful if you could email me some basics of a grooming salon. I definitely need that to run some initial numbers to see if the sales can support and high-rent type retail spot. I'm also meeting with a groomer who is interested in working for me next week. She should also be able to give me great information.

Thanks again guys, I really do appreciate it!

Mark

[otch1]

Excellent, glad to hear you potentially have a pro groomer on board. There are many "high end" shops on the west coast. Will get you as much info as possible about them and concerning county/city licensing issues and restrictions. Have a nice evening!