What would you consider a "BYB"?

[Plear]

Like the title says... what would you consider a Backyard breeder? For instance, if the breeder only has a couple breeding dogs (like, 3) and treats their dogs well, but is breeding them horribly (poor quality or no working potintial), would you call them a BYB? Is just anything that doesn't bred for show or field/herding/working in some way considered a BYB to you?

I was wondering because where we got Dixie wasn't all that bad, honestly. They had about 5 dogs, kept them inside... I don't know if they fed them well or did health tests before breeding, and Dixie is absolutely HORRIBLE conformationally, but other than that they were acceptable in the way they kept their dogs. (of course I still feel horrible that I promoted them, because they aren't GOOD breeders.)

Sooo basicly... what do you say?

[Lizmo]

For instance, if the breeder only has a couple breeding dogs (like, 3) and treats their dogs well, but is breeding them horribly (poor quality or no working potintial), would you call them a BYB? Is just anything that doesn't bred for show or field/herding/working in some way considered a BYB to you?


Yup ;) And also, alllll good breeders will to Health testing on all there stock before Breeding ANY dog.

And also, a good breeder is going to have homes lined up for the pups BEFORE the pups are born, and they only reason a pup would not have a home is if some one backed out of the deal.

[Plear]

Also, what would you consider betterment of a breed?

[Lizmo]

What do you mean by "betterment Of A Breed" :confused:

[Plear]

Like... its hard to explain - what would you consider "making the breed better"? Temperment, working ability....?

[Lizmo]

Well, I think it would depend on the breed.

If you mean like making the breed better through breeding....Take BC's for example.....They are bred for herding, so you would want to take a BC that does VERY well in Herding, but also has a sound Temp. and conforms to the BC standered.

But not sure of that answered your question, though.

[tessa_s212]

BYB is

-only breeds for money, or for "another Fido"
-does not health test
-is not educated and knowledgeable
-does not screen buyers

My mother used to be a BYB. For a BYB, she took excellent care of the puppies and loved them. She got their shots, socialized them, and taught me as a young kid to care for young puppies and a nursing mother. BUT, our dogs were NOT health tested, they were not planned breedings, our puppies went to bad homes, and even to pet stores. The dad to one of the puppies we kept now is blind in one eye. Less than a year later his daughter went blind in both eyes.. and we are responsible for her blindness.

My mom only had the best intentions and she did her best to care for those puppies.. sure.. but that does NOT make it right. That does NOT justify anything.. it is NO excuse. A BYB is a BYB, and they should NEVER be encouraged to continue to produce puppies.

[agilityretrievers]

I'd say that improving the breed is done by breeding dogs that are above average in at least one area and not below average in any area. By "area" I mean structure, working ability, trainability, and depending on the breeder's chosen area of specialization those areas can be further broken down.

BYB:

- doesn't health test
- doesn't care much about where puppies end up
- doesn't know about the breed or dogs in general

Undesirable but not necessarily always BYB:

- doesn't have valid reason breeding their dog will improve the breed (excellent structure, exceptional field ability, excellent temperament for agility/obedience/therapy/SAR work or something else with a "point," etc)
- dogs have glaring shortcomings in any area (structure, working ability, trainability, etc)
- doesn't have specific goals for their lines and areas they want to improve upon
- doesn't do decently in multiple sports and excel in at least one (if they're breeding top field dogs I want to see some obedience/agility and good structure in there as well, if they're breeding top obedience/agility dogs I want to see good structure and hunting titles, etc because Goldens are a versatile breed that should be competent in all areas)

[RedyreRottweilers]

My opinion?

If you are not competing

You are back yard breeding.

Period.

[Cassiepeia]

BYB is someone who...

Doesn't test for genetic problems.
Doesn't compete their dogs.
Doesn't include the animals in a family situation (I'm not a fan of dogs kept in kennels all the time and their only purpose in life being shown in dog shows).
Doesn't breed to better the breed (ie: to improve health first and foremost, conformation -relative to their working purpose-, temperament -if there are problems or to maintain good temperament-).

Cass.

[stevinski]

Also, what would you consider betterment of a breed?

Good breeders breed for a reason (working or show)
BYB's breed for pets

[bubbatd]

Then I guess I was a BYB . Did all the testings ,bred only to Champion backgrounds , many pups went on to show both Obedience , Field and Conformation . Bred my females one at a time every 2 years or so and only 2 litters each . But I did NOT personally show .

[Debi]

Then I guess I was a BYB . Did all the testings ,bred only to Champion backgrounds , many pups went on to show both Obedience , Field and Conformation . Bred my females one at a time every 2 years or so and only 2 litters each . But I did NOT personally show .

OH GOODNESS...NO. I have personally seen your records....you were NOT a BYB. I was so impressed with your dog's pedigrees and backgrounds. you bred the best. just because you did not personally show...paleeeese. I would have LOVED to have one of your pups!

[Debi]

My opinion?

If you are not competing

You are back yard breeding.

Period.

disagree....period.

come on...'if you are not competing'. are you serious? BYB's breed for the buck. sure, they round up a couple 'pedigree' dogs...pump out the puppies...and sadly there are too many people out there that keep paying, so they thrive. they could care less about vet care, health tests...it's easy money. I don't care how well they treat their dogs.....those people are BYBs of the worst kind. I've met true breeders that don't compete themselves. that's just a statement of true arrogance. (well sue me, cause I think I can't spell today) :)

[summitview]

My opinion?

If you are not competing

You are back yard breeding.

Period.
I have to agree. The only exception I will make is for working dogs that work for a living and don't compete. Working ranch dogs, trapline sled dogs, etc.

[RedyreRottweilers]

disagree....period.

come on...'if you are not competing'. are you serious? BYB's breed for the buck. sure, they round up a couple 'pedigree' dogs...pump out the puppies...and sadly there are too many people out there that keep paying, so they thrive. they could care less about vet care, health tests...it's easy money. I don't care how well they treat their dogs.....those people are BYBs of the worst kind. I've met true breeders that don't compete themselves. that's just a statement of true arrogance. (well sue me, cause I think I can't spell today) :)

It's just my personal opinion.

Clearly notated as such.

No one need agree with it. :D

[Debi]

It's just my personal opinion.

Clearly notated as such.

No one need agree with it. :D

I understand. :) you are truly an asset with your knowledge. I think sometimes you post in a manner that diminishes the point.

[terrier terror]

For instance, if the breeder only has a couple breeding dogs (like, 3) and treats their dogs well, but is breeding them horribly (poor quality or no working potintial), would you call them a BYB? Is just anything that doesn't bred for show or field/herding/working in some way considered a BYB to you?

Yes to both Q's.

Someone who takes in account the breed's temperament (the temperament they were bred to have to do the job they were bred to do), the ability to do the job the breed was bred for, health, and to the standard is a good breeder imo (and someone who considers all of these things and doesn't place one as more important than the other).

Someone who breeds just for pets or for a buck, regardless of how healthy the parents are, isn't a good breeder to me. They can have the cleanest home or facility, they can love on their dogs all the time and treat them well, they can feed raw or a premium food, they can even do health testing. But if they are not breeding for temperament, health, ability, and to the standard - they suck (and I probably should put "imo" ;)).

On the topic of competing: I agree, I want to see a breeder do SOMETHING with their dogs. Someone who competes in both earthdog (using this as an example for terriers) and conformation VS just conformation is another thing I would love to see. If a parent doesn't have any titles, I want to know why - and it better be a good reason ("I don't like politics" doesn't work for me).

( and I'm hoping this post is readable, being sick + taking meds = horrible results most of the time :o )

[adojrts]

I agree;
Genetic testing is a must (of course the testing is only as good as the people that DONT bred from carriers or affected dogs)
breeding for a purpose
Proven in SOMETHING, is esp. for a working breed.
I really don't care about Titles from the conformation ring, for working breeds.
But that same dog/bitch had better be a PROVEN working or performance dog.
Temperament- if you can't live with it, if you can't train it.......who wants it?

Now having said all this................there are very few breeders that compete, do the testing and win that I would purchase a dog from.
I also don't like folks that breed to fill puppy orders, BYB or otherwise.

Take care
Lynn

[bubbatd]

Redy .. that's why I stated my case. I did breed for a reason . To raise the best pups for disposition , looks and health as possible . And yes , the purpose was a pup you could show or love to death or just get their TDIs and make many elders and disabled people as happy as possible .

[Spiritus]

My ex is a BYB. He has two poodles, one of each sex, both intact. His mom wants a puppy, his in-laws want a puppy, his brother wants a puppy. So, if everyone wants a puppy and he has two dogs, why not breed them? Sigh. Clear example of a BYB.

This is a man that hated dogs when he was with me, and the reason why I say "Life BEGAN after my divorce!" ;)

[agilityretrievers]

There are plenty of cute, friendly, healthy dogs out there in rescue that make better pets than most dogs that are purposefully bred for pets. There is no reason to create more of them when they're already there.

[BlackDog]

instead of focusing on what's a BYB it is easier to say what is responsible breeder is....


Every purebred dog breed has four dimensions to it that make it the breed it is; look, health, temperament, and ability. A responsible breeder will take into account all four of these dimensions before they breed. They will have a clear understanding of what these qualities are and why they are so important.

When I say *look* I’m referring to the physical appearance of the dog. Every breed of dog has a certain way it is suppose to look that is unique to it’s breed. The ideal specimen should have as many of these qualities as possible. How they keep track of what qualities each breed is suppose to have is through the dog’s breed standard. The breed standard outlines the qualities of the physical appearance of the breed. It also outlines the ideal temperament.

In regards to health, every breed has certain health problems that are common to it. Some have more than others because of multiple factors. The idea of breeding purebreds is to have the least amount of health problem possible, preferably none. Health testing is done on both parents, before breeding the litter, to determine if both dogs are free of genetic defects that could be passed on to the offspring. The breeder should also be familiar with at least four generations of the dog’s history; both parents. This is important when determining if there are any carriers of a disease in either parent’s history. Some defects skip over a generation. Health defect testing will only tell you if the dog has a defect, it doesn’t tell you if the dog is a carrier for a defect. By knowing the dog’s history, you can see if any of it’s relatives had any defects. If they did, it can tell you that the defect has skipped over one or more generations.

Temperament is another thing is impacts the breed and makes it unique. Every breed of dog has a slightly different temperament. Again, the idea is to breed dogs that come as close as possible to the breeds standard. This way, the dog will act the way it is said it’s suppose to act.

Ability means the dog can perform the function(s) that the breed was originally bred to do. Like a beagle being a good hunting dog, a golden retriever being good at retrieving and hunting, a border collie being good at herding, the mastiff being a good guard dog. Every breed has a reason it was bred for. It has an ability it is good at that makes it unique to every other breed. Some abilities are close to other breeds but each one is slightly different.

All of these four dimensions, put together, make up the breed you know and love. The catch is, all of these qualities must be worked for, through selective breeding. The founders of the breed made these qualities into the breed they are today, but it is through selecting breeding (picking out specimens that match the look, health, temperament, and ability of the breed) that maintain the breed’s uniqueness.

There are many types of breeders out there. Some breed only for health and temperament. Some breed only for look. Some breed only for ability. Some breed for ability and health. The list of possible combinations goes on and on. But the one thing all of these breeders are missing (the ones I just listed) is that they are not breeding for every dimension that the breed should have. So they are creating dogs that are only “half-pure” or “partial purebreds”. With every generation that goes on, that the breeder(s) do not breed for all four dimensions, the resulting litters become less and less like that of a purebred. Yes it is true, they will still technically have papers and be register able by the AKC, if both parents are purebred, but in reality they will not really be what they are suppose to be.
The quality of purebreds is not determined by the paper work, it is in how closely to the four dimensions the breeders breed them.

[adojrts]

Blackdog,
Your absolutey correct. As a breeder of reg'd Jrts, I have wanted it all for sometime now. I will not and do not compromize on working ability, correct breed standard conformation, health or temperament. I have an absolute goal in mind and it is going to take me years and generations to get there. I breed for quality and not quantity, producing only one litter every 18 mons- 2 yrs, so its a slow progress. But gives me time to access pups as they mature, prove them in many venues and cull. I have always placed equal value on all four points, sadly so many don't.
I also don't breed for pets, we always get at least one in each litter anyways.
Take care
Lynn