Puppyfind =/

[~Jessie~]

A girl that I know on another forum wants to buy a puppy off of puppyfind.com . I've tried to explain to her that no reputable breeder would ever sell a puppy on there, and she just doesn't believe me. The puppy has an obvious underbite, and is really out of breed standards. The only thing that matters to her is that this puppy will supposedly be "under 3lbs."

Anyway, I just wanted to vent about puppyfind, and it upsets me that breeders are allowed to sell puppies on sites like this =/

[juliefurry]

Oh I hope she doesn't! I HATE Puppyfind. All you see in BYB's, and puppymillers there. We know a family that bought a standard poodle puppy off puppyfind shortly after we had gotten ours and they have had nothing but problems with him medically and everything. He probably will never lead a full and happy life either. Lots of people on that site are out to scam you. Maybe not all but most the ads that I have seen from puppyfind are totally bogus (1 year health guarantees or LIFE-TIME health guarantees). I mean lots of problems arise after 1 year so that guarantee is almost worthless! We're living proof of that with Hannah her hip didn't start giving her problems until after a year and a half (although she's not purchased off puppyfind).

[~Jessie~]

That is really sad :(

All one needs is just to glance through puppyfind to see that most of the pups are out of breed standards, and many of them look very unhealthy. I can't believe the prices on most of the puppies, either! Most of them are $1000+, and do not even look like their supposed breed.

[wolfsoul]

Are you sure you can just buy puppies off that site? I have friends on that site, but they just use it to advertise future litters--not to sell to the highest bidder.

[bubbatd]

Either way , it's bad news !

[Cassiepeia]

Explain to her all the health problems associated with the breed (or mix breed) she's chosen and how much it will cost her in vet bills getting a dog from such a disreputable source.
Then explain to her all the financial benefits of getting a dog from a reputable breeder.
If she's stupid and selfish, it won't make a difference...but if she has at least one brain cell...the thought of spending hundreds, possibly thousands, on vet bills might make her think twice.

Oh yeah...and I despise puppyfind too. It should be illegal to sell animals via the internet. :(

Cass.

[carlar]

I think you are giving all the breeders who use Puppy Find a bad rep. Not all of them are bad surely? My sister uses it and has wonderful puppies and she is a caring, careful breeder. I think we should be careful of indiscrimatly giving blanket opinions that might be hurtful to others. Not every breeder out there is bad or cheating someone. I'm sure there are bad ones on there just like there are bad ones everyone if you look but don't paint the good ones with the same tar.

[RedyreRottweilers]

Why would ANY breeder advertise puppies for sale on the internet?

($$$$$)

A responsible caring breeder has homes for puppies BEFORE a breeding transpires.

Puppy find is a good place for rescues or shelters to showcase the animals they might have available.

I can't find any legitimate reason for a responsible breeder to advertise there.

JMO as always.

:D

[mrsgrubby]

Why would ANY breeder advertise puppies for sale on the internet?

($$$$$)

A responsible caring breeder has homes for puppies BEFORE a breeding transpires.

Puppy find is a good place for rescues or shelters to showcase the animals they might have available.

I can't find any legitimate reason for a responsible breeder to advertise there.

JMO as always.

:D


I've never bred a litter, and don't plan on it, but I agree. If you don't already have puppies sold, it doesn't make sense to me to breed.

[adoptashelterpettoday]

You can let her know that I got 2 dogs off puppy find (before I knew better), they got here with parvo. One died. The one who died, I was told by the "breeder" had bilateral hearing. Come to find out he had unilateral hearing (could only hear out of one ear). I contacted the lady after I paid the vet bills ($500+) and told her I at least wanted my money back for the dog who died of parvo. She said no way.

So I got stuck with huge vet bills from the dog who lived, a dead puppy that I still had to pay for, and a broken heart because the puppy who died in the short amount of time I had him, became my "heart dog".

She is going to be in for nothing but heartbreak and huge vet bills if she buys a dog off of there.

[adoptashelterpettoday]

Why would ANY breeder advertise puppies for sale on the internet?

($$$$$)

A responsible caring breeder has homes for puppies BEFORE a breeding transpires.

Puppy find is a good place for rescues or shelters to showcase the animals they might have available.

:D

Are you sure you arent thinking of petfinder?

Puppy find is a lot different. Puppy find is only for breeders.

Petfinder is only for rescues/shelters.

[bubbatd]

I still say that I'd stay away from ANY site that advertises puppies unless it's a rescue .

[RedyreRottweilers]

You are right, I was thinking of Petfinder. Not familiar with puppy find.

[wolfsoul]

I totally disagree that all advertisements are bad. I am advertising my fall 2007 litter right now. I want to be prepared before I breed -- I don't want to breed and be stuck with a bunch of puppies with no homes.
I also don't "sell" puppies before they are ready to go. I think it's fair to generate interest but not guarantee anything until you know exactly what you have. Of course by the time they are old enough to finally get an idea of show/pet, most of the people interested have moved on to another breeder, and you ARE stuck with a few puppies, like it or not.

Example: My friend bred her sheltie, and nobody outside us even knew about it. She didn't want people to take any interest until she knew exactly what she had. When the pups were 8 weeks old, she placed an ad, and when they were 10 weeks old, she chose the homes. She had 5 pups -- two pet puppies and three show puppies. If she had taken deposits on 6 show puppies, where would she have been? The homes she chose were wonderful. Just because they chose to look through the paper makes them bad owners? She wanted to know the puppies really well before getting attached to any owners. It may not have been a good match. I completely understand selling over the internet, through a website, etc. But I don't understand why advertising in any way makes you a bad breeder.

[bubbatd]

Just my opinion , Wolfsoul . I only bred every 2 years or so ....and not for lining my pocketbook. I usually had more on my waiting list than pups available . Going thorough my Golden Club, word of mouth and past owners , I never had to advertise . I don't know why you or your friend breed , so I can't comment as to not advertising until a pup is 8 weeks old . If I was THINKING about breeding today ( as a 1st time breeder ) , after my bitch was 2 years old and had all of the testing ... I would contact my local breed club ( with a picture and all results of testing ) and ask them if they would/ could recommend a future litter . Of course they will want to know about the possible sire . Way before the breeding heat , you will have agreed with the sire owner ( he too , tested etc ) . This is sent too the breed club . ( it would help if you were a member ! ) When breeding is completed you let the club know of a coming litter . This is passed on to people asking about up coming puppies ..in the meantime , your friends know and pass the word on . If you happen to have a large litter and you dont have all spoken for.... someone will ask as new puppy owner where they got their cute pup ....and the rest will be sold . Sure , you can go internet and meet Joe Blow ...... I liked personal face to face before I let my special pups go . I actually made a little money on one litter .... my husband said wow , breed again ! No way !!! My female wasn't a puppy machine ! No ... I would never buy or sell over the internet !! ( Except through a rescue like petfinder . ) PS would you send me your ad so I could critique .... I'll be fair .

[AnimalLoverCatRescuer]

PS would you send me your ad so I could critique .... I'll be fair .

I was going to ask too, please do and then we can all critique it. Your sisters too! I am curious. That was you that said your sister advertizes on that site too right?

[MissMosaic]

I personally have no problem with people advertising for puppies online.. When Ebony had her unexpected litter, I posted several Adds about them AFTER they were born... Alot of the puppies were already dibbed, from a few close friends who really wanted one from our litter.. I look online at breeders ads all the time.. How is a breeder suppost to be known for their good quality dogs, without advertisments.. I dont agree that BYB or Puppymills are appropriate to advertise.. BUT I do think it is up to the person looking for the puppy to deside what they want..

[wolfsoul]

My ad isn't on the internet -- will probably get one up eventually, but right now I just have one in the paper and one hanging at my work -- both advertising my future litter, not advertising current pups. :) My friends do use that site but neither have an ad right now as neither one of them are planning a litter. I do have a couple of acquaintances that currently have an ad on that site. Not selling their pups via the internet though, just generating interest for future litters. Do you want me to type out what both my ads say?

To me, letting the club or your friends tell people about a litter is no different than letting a newspaper or a website do it. A person looking for a puppy is going to look in different places.
I also have a breed that is difficult to sell, and difficult to find the right home for -- I'm not going to take my chances just expecting homes to fall in my lap.

[thehoundgirl]

Either way , it's bad news !

I agree! refer her to petfinder and try to persuade her to adopt. good luck! I really hate that site. I don't think any reptuable breeder would sell a pup on there, honestly...

[Zoom]

How is a breeder suppost to be known for their good quality dogs, without advertisments.

Through shows, word of mouth...if you have a dog that is taking top placements in everything it does, the word gets around where the dog came from. And since you should be titling your dog in some venue before breeding anyway, you will have a list of people saying "oh, I want a pup from your next litter!" It's really not hard...like Grammy said, local Breed Clubs can do a lot for you if you are in good standing with them.

All three of the dogs I want to get next are at least 2 years from being bred. But I've seen the dams and since I'm so impressed with them, I'd like to have a pup from them. Not one of these people has made a single advertisement.

[wolfsoul]

How is a breeder suppost to be known for their good quality dogs, without advertisments..

I agree -- I sit here for hours every night looking at breeder's websites, looking a pedigrees, pictures,comparing, etc. If they didn't have that, I would be breeding willy-nilly to whoever had a health certified dog, thinking I was doing it right. The next litter I'm keeping a pup from is out of a male in the states -- Who I never would have known about if it weren't for a website. A relatively small amount of breeders of my breed -- it's nice to be able to look at a website and know what else is out there. God knows I will never see it at a show. Never any other Belgians.

[Zoom]

You can have a breeder's website of their own build (Lord knows I pour over enough of them myself) and that's perfectly fine. Like wolfsoul said, you can find breeders/dogs you otherwise would never have known about.

However, you are judged by the company you keep. And PuppyFind is lousy with BYB's, millers and show mills who are in it for the wrong reasons. I would never trust a breeder who listed on their; that to me shows that they either don't know enough or don't care enough about their dogs to attract the right sort of people.

[showpug]

I believe the best "advertising" is word of mouth. I am also all for a breeder creating their own personal website with information about their dogs along with contact information etc. I don't really like the overall feel of puppyfind etc. or any of the others that are like it. While I can't assume that every single breeder listed is a BYB or miller, I can stear clear because I feel the site has a cruddy reputation and does not promote the breeding of better dogs. If I absolutley was forced to place an add somewhere, it would be in our breed magazine that just goes out to pug owners and fanciers...

[Cassiepeia]

I thought this thread was just talking about 'puppyfind' and actually buying dogs over the internet, not reputable breeders showing off their dogs and advertising current and potential litters online (which is something completely different IMO)?


Cass.

[wolfsoul]

I thought this thread was just talking about 'puppyfind' and actually buying dogs over the internet, not reputable breeders showing off their dogs and advertising current and potential litters online (which is something completely different IMO)?

There are some reputable breeders on Puppyfind advertising current and potential litters...That's why I think it's unfair to say every breeder on there is selling puppies over the internet, because some of them aren't. The majority of them might be, but why throw the few good people into the bad group..

[dixiecatahoula]

Well how does a breeder advertise..? they dont?? its wrong to advertise..???

[Spiritus]

Okay, okay - calm down :)

There are reasons why people would advertise on the internet..... GOOD reasons. Personally, I do have my kennel on a few sites. I do this for a few reasons.

1) Some people don't have a clue about buying dogs. Really, they don't. The don't know anything about BYB's, puppy mills. If the only people on these sites are mills or BYB's, then how do people get educated?

2) Again, education. It brings people to your website. If your site is informational and educational, GREAT.

3) It lets people know we're out there. It allows people to visit and see and maybe start asking questions between the difference between what one site says and the difference between what another says.

So, I guess, all three reasons are basically education. I have only sold to one person who found me through one of "those" sites, but that person took months of time talking with me and learning. That is one person who did not by from a mill or BYB. I've had others that I have talked to for a duration of time until they made the decision a Belgian was not for them. Good for them. But if they hadn't found someone willing to talk to them, if they had just found someone who was BUY BUY BUY, they would have likely found themselves with a dog that was too much for them, or who had health problems, etc.

I feel that as a breeder, I cannot just hide in my "pretty world" where all my friends are "responsible" breeders and all my inquiries are potential responsible homes. I know what it is to NOT know about purebred dogs and back yard breeders and puppy mills. I remember the learning process I went through when I decided I wanted a purebred dog. It's a whole other world. I want to help people make good choices, which is another reason why I am on this board and others.

The thing I don't like about PuppyFind is that you have to pay to be able to see someone's contact info, unless the person who posted paid a small fortune to make those details available. I don't like the fact that when I saw a Belgian listed and the picture being one of MY DOGS!!!! that I had to PAY to find out who it was and to lodge a complaint of copyright infringement and stolen photographs. IMO, PuppyFind is strictly a "selling" site, not a "listing of your kennel" site. The site itself is run to make money for the people who own the site. It's all about money.

And don't get me going about the "silver Tervuren" that is listed..... argh.

[dixiecatahoula]

ha..it was late at night.i got carried away lol. im new to the breeding thing and want to do it right.

[ihartgonzo]

If you're advertising a planned breeding on your website, I understand that completely.

However, Puppyfind is CRAWLING with BYB's & Puppy Mills. I have been through that site, and have yet to see even a sign of a decent breeder. It's like a massive network of millers. If I were a breeder, I would never even consider advertising through such a site. Plain & simple, it's a place for people who want a puppy and want it now... in the ads, they treat puppies like an object that they just ship to who ever. I also see lots of adult dogs being sold unneutered & unspayed as breeding machines to whoever wants them. If I were a breeder, I would refuse to be associated in any way with such a site. They allow/promote/encourage puppy mills, which is f-ed up to the extreme.

I would not consider a breeder that didn't require meeting the puppy buyer in person... it just shows a total lack of care for the pups.

[Spiritus]

I would not consider a breeder that didn't require meeting the puppy buyer in person... it just shows a total lack of care for the pups.

Then I guess I don't care about my puppies. Sigh.

I AM a breeder who does not require meeting the buyer in person. My puppies are in homes all over North America! Let's see, I have one in California, one in Oregon, one in Washington, one in Massachusetts, one in Vermont, four in Ontario, two in Quebec, two in Alberta, etc., etc., etc. I think it is unreasonable to expect people to come to my home to pick up their puppy. I would LOVE to meet them all in person, but knowing that isn't always possible, I take time - LOTS of time, getting to know them via. email, talking with them on the phone. I have a private discussion forum that is for my puppy owners only and most have opted to join and actually do participate in discussion. I now have "friends" all over North America, AMAZING friends who would welcome me into their homes in a second if I was coming through their neck of the woods.

Most of my puppies have homes before they are even born. I have deposits for five right now with four more people wanting to send one, but since I don't know how many puppies will be born, I am not accepting any more. These people don't just send their deposits then dissappear until the pups are born. They email me, often daily! They share what's going on in their lives. If they don't keep in touch, they get their deposit back. If they won't chat with me before they get their puppy, what will they do afterwards.

There are other ways to "get to know" people other than meeting them in person. "Bad" people can put on "nice" faces when meeting someone who has something that they want, and one meeting will not necessarily tell me just who to classify as "the bad".

[bubbatd]

Yes... I've sold to people I didn't know , but they were recommended by people I did know . BTW... my new Grand -pup Seger was from a breeder my daughter didn't know and the breeder knew her only through e-mails and phone calls . How did they get together ? Through the Golden Retriever club . Jan put in her application with them and she was approved . She was then refered to up coming litters of KNOWN reputable breeders. The show circuit is a tight knit group . Much like Chaz , they get to know people . Is this advertising pups ? No ! It's announcing up coming litters from reputable people . She had to wait 6 months or more , but it was well worth it !!! A well bred , healthy pup , well socialized ,with both dam and sire certified with all testing . I truthfully consider all ads on the internet the same as from the local newspaper. Site are good to learn about their breeding .....but if they are advertising available pups ....NO!

[Spiritus]

I would just like to add that if all breeders took the "I must meet you first" attitude, I would not have ANY of my dogs. I "met" Shay's breeder through her website. I "met" Trouble's and Skye's breeder through her website. I brought Gunner in from Hungary, and I certainly couldn't fly there to meet his breeder. Katia who is co-owned was bought from Czechoslovakia.... none of the three of us who own her have met her breeder in person. My next dog is likely coming from Belgium, and I haven't met her breeder either.

I must also say that I consider ALL of these breeders my friends. Some I have met and visit with on occassion, others I will likely never meet, but they are still my dogs' breeders, and they are my mentors and my friends. The internet has opened doors to breeders that we could have never imagined!

[Spiritus]

Yes... I've sold to people I didn't know , but they were recommended by people I did know .

I recommended someone to a breeder once, and I will never do so again. I thought I knew the person I was referring, but it turns out I didn't. She is good to her dogs, but has also, on occassion, been a BYB (I didn't know at the time), and is terrible when it comes to paying for things. I don't know if the breeder ever got paid, but at the very least, the dog is now neutered, so I know he won't be adding BYB puppies to the world.

[ihartgonzo]

I'm not trying to judge you or your breeding ethics, Spiritus. It's just a standard of my own... after seeing many puppies shipped to people I know (the majority of these pups from puppyfind) with myriad illnesses & airline issues, and also after hearing from great breeders who made the mistake of trusting some one with a puppy that they should not have.

Of course as far as importing pups from other countries, to you being a known breeder, that's completely different & completely understandable. And the new owners that a breeder chooses definitely should be on a case-by-case basis... it's just that (in m o s t cases), I would require the new owner to pick up the puppy, if I were a breeder; and I'd expect that policy (or very thorough screening) from any breeder I bought a puppy from.