need help...aggressive dog

[buyler]

Hi all, I'm brand new to chazhound but have looked around the site quite a bit. Seems to me that this site is full of caring and knowledgeable pet owners, so hopefully some good advice can be sent my way.

I have a male pitt bull who is four years old (please look past the breed), and his name is Romeo. Romeo has lived with my parents for the past 3 years because I now live in an apartment that is too small for him. My parents also had two dogs of their own, an older female Shephard mix and a smaller black mutt named Max. Since Romeo was about 2 years old, he has shown serious aggression toward Max, the other male. A few times over the years, Romeo has gotten through the blockades set in place to keep them apart and got a hold of Max. He had the opportunity to kill, but never did. Just shook him up a bit. But yesterday, my father came home to find Max in a pool of blood and Romeo standing over him-- not aggressive at that time, possibly because Max was no longer fighting back??-- and took him immediately to the vet. Turns out that Romeo had severed Max's jugular, and within a few hours, Max passed away.

The issues here are many. First of all, Max was the only THING (animal, human, child, anything) that has ever Romeo showed any aggression towards. Is it possible it was just an 'alpha male' thing and will never resurface?? Also, if we were to give him to a shelter, either they would immediately put him down or someone would adopt him with the knowledge of his past and based on his breed put him in a ring to fight other dogs.

Romeo is a wonderful dog except for this. But its a big 'except'. I got him when he was 2 weeks old and hand fed him every three hours for months until he got stronger. This is tearing us all apart and some advice from an outside source would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much.

[tara]

Sorry I can't help you with this, even though I am trying to deal with a semi-agressive dog myself. I do know that there are a lot of knowledgable people here that probably can though!
That is so sad though! Sorry for the loss.

[iheartsammy]

wow..thats really sad.. I'm really not sure what to do..

do not take him to the shelter though, dogs arn't disposible, and i dout anyone would adopt him knowing his past...

besides that, I really don't know what to stay, I'd say keep him, but be extreamly cautious near other dogs..

but I'm not the expert here...

[buyler]

thanks so much for the well wishes. the last thing i want to do is get rid of him, we're not the type to give up on any of our animals. i'm just hoping someone has some insight on what i can to do keep this from ever happening again....

[mojozen]

Since i have a pit mix, i can look past the breed but at the same time cannot. You have a dog aggressive dog on your hands with a breed that is known for dog aggression. Yes, many terriers are known for dog aggression, but the bully breed family is the ones that were bred for dog fighting for well nigh 100 years. This is NOT something that can always be trained out of a pit bull... is this something that will just magically go away? I don't think so... this is something that doesn't need a band aid cure of blockades... it needs serious training with a behaviorist that is familiar with pit bulls and their problems. If your dog is displaying dog aggression it can never be trusted outside of strict control.

Also pit bulls can be very reactive to the same sex - so since Romeo is male, it's not surprising that he went after Max the other male dog in the house. Is it just dominance? Probably not... not at this point... not this late in the game.

There are others who have dealt more with dog aggression in pit bulls and they will be able to give you pointers on what to do. My pit mix, Mojo, is fortunately not dog aggressive save for german shepherds. Even then I take precautions... Mojo is walked on leash in public and I am doing a lot of thinking about whether I want to add another dog to the mix - whether male or female.

Do you know anything about the true history of your dog's breed?

ETA: Depending on the area that you are in - some shelters will take on a pit bull with dog aggresion in it's past and only adopt out to a only dog home. And most shelters to my knowledge will never adopt out a pit bull to someone who may have connections to the dog fighting world. Can it happen? Yes... but they do take a lot of precautions to insure that it doesn't.

[iheartsammy]

Since i have a pit mix, i can look past the breed but at the same time cannot. You have a dog aggressive dog on your hands with a breed that is known for dog aggression. Yes, many terriers are known for dog aggression, but the bully breed family is the ones that were bred for dog fighting for well nigh 100 years. This is NOT something that can always be trained out of a pit bull... is this something that will just magically go away? I don't think so... this is something that doesn't need a band aid cure of blockades... it needs serious training with a behaviorist that is familiar with pit bulls and their problems. If your dog is displaying dog aggression it can never be trusted outside of strict control.

Also pit bulls can be very reactive to the same sex - so since Romeo is male, it's not surprising that he went after Max the other male dog in the house. Is it just dominance? Probably not... not at this point... not this late in the game.

There are others who have dealt more with dog aggression in pit bulls and they will be able to give you pointers on what to do. My pit mix, Mojo, is fortunately not dog aggressive save for german shepherds. Even then I take precautions... Mojo is walked on leash in public and I am doing a lot of thinking about whether I want to add another dog to the mix - whether male or female.

Do you know anything about the true history of your dog's breed?

I agree!!

[Amstaffer]

Sorry about your loss.

When you or a Dominant human that has good control of Romeo is not around....Crate him. Crating is not cruel and most dogs adjust to it just fine. Just make sure you don't crate him for real long times. Crate him while you are at work and then take him out. Also make sure you buy are crate bigger than the label suggests. When I first crate train my dogs I got the crates for Great Danes. I don't crate them anymore but it was handy when they went through the destructive phase.

There are lots of good dog trainer folks on her...so keep checking back I am sure someone will have more info, but I think crating is a good start.

Never leave him alone with another dog even the one he "likes"(since he is clearly aggressive) and at his age, avoid having him around other dogs period.

[mojozen]

Sorry about your loss.

When you or a Dominant human that has good control of Romeo is not around....Crate him. Crating is not cruel and most dogs adjust to it just fine. Just make sure you don't crate him for real long times. Crate him while you are at work and then take him out. Also make sure you buy are crate bigger than the label suggests. When I first crate train my dogs I got the crates for Great Danes. I don't crate them anymore but it was handy when they went through the destructive phase.

There are lots of good dog trainer folks on her...so keep checking back I am sure someone will have more info, but I think crating is a good start.

Never leave him alone with another dog even the one he "likes"(since he is clearly aggressive) and at his age, avoid having him around other dogs period.

Well said Amstaffer. I also taught Mojo about crating using a larger crate than his size. The crate i used was for my previous cattledog mix and it was even a little big for him!

[Spirit2010]

I am sorry for the loss. yes, do not take him to the shelter, and what I would advise, do not let him get near another male dog! Or do not trust him with any other dogs, female or male. Pit Bulls are dog aggressive. This is why I say this. And do not trust him with a cat, or any other pets, thats all I can say, but I would go with the person who has experience with Pit Bulls. Again I am sorry for your loss, and Welcome to Chazhound.com! Goodluck with him! Sorry I am not much help.

[ToscasMom]

Poor Poor Max.

[sam]

:( I'm very sorry for your loss.

Dog-dog aggression can occur in any breed of dog but is the norm with certain breeds and pitties are one of them. I think it's generally ackowledged that with pitbulls, two dogs should never be left together unsupervised even if they have never shown signs of agression towards each other.

Dog-dog aggression typically doesn't show up until a dog is fully mature around 18-24 months so people often mistakenly believe they don't have a dog aggressive dog until a nasty incident happens. It can't ever be "trained out" but it can certainly be managed.

I highly recommend a book called "Click to Calm" by Emma Parsons. I attended her aggression seminar this winter and she does wonderful work with aggressive dogs. You can get it on amazon.com or dogwise.com She also has a yahoo group by the same name which would be another great resource and source of support. I would also read Jean Donaldson's book on dog-dog aggression too.

I wish I could think of that really good pitbull information web site. Hopefully Elegy will come along and post it. She'd be a good person to talk to about this, having two pitties, one who is very reactive and being knowledgeable about dog behavior in general.

[milos_mommy]

i'm dealing with a similar issue, Milo, my JRT, is aggressive and only towards other males. i'd love to hear some advice...

[buyler]

A HUGE thank you for all your advice.... doors have been put up to separate rooms, and will therefore be able to keep Romeo separate from the other remaining dog at all times. Its a big house with a large fenced in back yard which he is chained up on a run in when he's out. We also have a crate if the need for that arises. Hopefully these precautions as well as a constant awareness of him being a true pit bull, we can avoid something like this happening again.

You are all so right, he's a dog aggressive dog and that's the bottom line. I've done a lot of research on the breed, but I guess the pitty lover in me overlooked the obvious due to his loving disposition and being a great dog otherwise.

Thanks again!!!

[bubbatd]

Welcome ! And I too am so sorry for your loss. Is there any way you could take him to your place and then contact a good behaviorist ?? Hang in here ...trainers will check in !

[Buddy'sParents]

I am incredibly sorry for your loss.

This is going to be moved to the traning section, perhaps you will get more attention from our knowledgeable trainers there.

Best of luck to you.

[Zoom]

I'm very sorry to hear about Max!

Unfortunetly, dog-dog aggression is the norm with pit bulls; it doesn't necessarily make them a bad dog, but it does have to be handled accordingly. As you've found out, it takes a solid barrier to keep dogs apart from each other.

I would not trust Romeo loose around any other dogs, especially male dogs. This isn't really something you can train "out"...the best you can do is train to ignore when you are walking in public and then properly confine when you are going out.

[adojrts]

Ok, first thing, sorry for Max poor fella.
I know very little about Pits and I am not going to give advice concerning them, especially considering there are people on this forum that are pro's or have experience etc. But I do have a couple of thoughts.......he is a male, correct? I would think getting him neutered should help. You also mentioned having him chained while out (unless I misunderstood), instead of chaining him, purchase and build a proper safe and secure run for him, also I agree with providing him with a very large and secure crate when he can't be supervised, (it wouldn't be the first time a dog has broken a window or door to get out).

Good luck
Lynn

[Doberluv]

I agree with the others. You just have to make sure he can't get at another dog. I just mainly wanted to give you my sympathies for your loss. What a shame...so very sad.

[pancho]

Hi all, I'm brand new to chazhound but have looked around the site quite a bit. Seems to me that this site is full of caring and knowledgeable pet owners, so hopefully some good advice can be sent my way.

I have a male pitt bull who is four years old (please look past the breed), and his name is Romeo. Romeo has lived with my parents for the past 3 years because I now live in an apartment that is too small for him. My parents also had two dogs of their own, an older female Shephard mix and a smaller black mutt named Max. Since Romeo was about 2 years old, he has shown serious aggression toward Max, the other male. A few times over the years, Romeo has gotten through the blockades set in place to keep them apart and got a hold of Max. He had the opportunity to kill, but never did. Just shook him up a bit. But yesterday, my father came home to find Max in a pool of blood and Romeo standing over him-- not aggressive at that time, possibly because Max was no longer fighting back??-- and took him immediately to the vet. Turns out that Romeo had severed Max's jugular, and within a few hours, Max passed away.

The issues here are many. First of all, Max was the only THING (animal, human, child, anything) that has ever Romeo showed any aggression towards. Is it possible it was just an 'alpha male' thing and will never resurface?? Also, if we were to give him to a shelter, either they would immediately put him down or someone would adopt him with the knowledge of his past and based on his breed put him in a ring to fight other dogs.

Romeo is a wonderful dog except for this. But its a big 'except'. I got him when he was 2 weeks old and hand fed him every three hours for months until he got stronger. This is tearing us all apart and some advice from an outside source would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much.

This is a fairly common occurance with a pit bull. Pit bulls will mature at different ages. Pit bull people call that "turning on". When a pit bull first turns on they may attack other dogs, especially the same sex, but may not kill the dog. They often stop their attack when the other dog gives up. As they continue to mature they may not stop until the other dog is killed. It isn't really an alpha thing, the dog is only doing what he has been bred to do. They will learn and gain confidence with each attack. When a pit bull has turned on they will need a lot more exercise than before. If they do not get the exercise thay may "go stale" another term used by pit bull breeders. When a pit bull goes stale they will loose interest in many things they were once interested in but will look for a chance for confrontation. He will mature more and will be more relaxed later.

Many times a blockade will not stop a determined pit bull, they have been known to tear through a closed door or the wall beside the door. Now since there isn't a male dog in the house he probably will not attack the female especially if she is a settled older dog. If you decide to crate the dog please buy a crate made for pit bulls. They can and will destroy most crates.
A wire crate will not usually do for a pit bull. Some pit bulls will destroy them completely.

Good luck with your dog. He should not be a danger to the older female but should be watched for any aggressive nature other than play.

[taratippy]

Can I just say please listen to the people on THIS site and not the UK based one you also posted on. This is a dog aggressive dog it does not mean it needs being pts because it will then go on to kill people. The people on here are more aware of pitbulls than anyone in the UK.

Oh and well done guys :hail: Im so glad to see this post here and getting responsible answers instead of hysterical nonsense.

[Doberluv]

This is a dog aggressive dog it does not mean it needs being pts because it will then go on to kill people.

Someone said that??? :yikes:

No way. Dog-dog aggression is one thing. Human aggression is a whole other ball game...not related. I can't believe someone said that. Thanks Tara for posting that. Pit Bulls are designed to be that way, dog aggressive but they're suppose to be exceptionally lovely with people.

[buyler]

Thank you all again for your thoughts and comments. I did post this thread on other sites to try and get more responses, but as Tara (which happens to be my name too, small world) said, I seem to be getting a resounding call for him to be PTS from people in the UK.

We're not ones to ever give up on animals that we've committed to, and extra precautions have already been taken at my parent's house. While Max was alive and in the house with Romeo, often times only a child gate would separate rooms, and Romeo would never go near them (when he was a puppy one of them fell over and smacked the kitchen floor hard and made a loud noise, he's never gone near one since.) But now doors have been put up in between rooms, there is a very long run in the yard and when he's supervised he runs free, and our awareness is certainly heightened in light of recent events. Plus, no aggression has ever been displayed with Lexie, the remaining female, so hopefully with all of this in place, there will be no other incidents. It was just a mistake... my dad forgot to shut the door tightly when he went out, and that was it. Tough mistake to live with though, he's having a really hard time with the guilt.

[Doberluv]

Plus, no aggression has ever been displayed with Lexie, the remaining female, so hopefully with all of this in place, there will be no other incidents.

Don't let that make you too confident. Pit Bulls are dog aggressive. If it doesn't show up for a while or with some dogs that by no means means it won't at some time.

I'm so sorry for your Dad. What a tough thing to have to live with. Mistakes happen. I'm sure you all will be even more careful from now on....with a locked, solid door between them when you're not right there to supervise.

[otch1]

Very sorry to hear about Max, Buyler. You learned the hard way about appropriate confinement for multiple dogs in a house. Especially once there was a previous display of aggression and a fight. Now that this has happened, you are actually the safest home for him. He should not be rehomed. Many people make a dogs life comfortable and ensure other dogs safety, but it takes some work. He should never be chained to anything, not even a dog house. This is considered a form of aggitation. He will need a secure kennel run in the back yard. In the house, barricades and baby gates will not do. I'll try to send you info on a company that makes very nice steel gates. They bolt into the wall, are more decorative in a home than wood/plastic gates and more secure. You should try to keep from locking him in bedrooms for prolonged periods. He's still very aware of the other dog loose in the house and there's always a chance a door will be left ajar someday. Some great books were mentioned as well! He sounds like he needs training and I imagine your parents would appreciate your help in handling him. What people tend to do after something like this has happened is spend less time with the dog simply resolving it by confinement. As a 2 yr old male, he needs much more handling, training and mental stimulation now, to ensure that more behavioral problems will not develope as a result of this.

[Herschel]

Poor Poor Max.

Ditto.

[bubbatd]

I know I couldn't personally live with constantly being worried about separating dogs. A friend of mine had 2 male and 2 female dobes ........ the females couldn't be together ... the males couldn't be together . Once a gate was broken down and they all got together ...she was in the middle and had to be hospitalized for weeks .

[Doberluv]

How awful. Yes, housing two male Dobermans is always advised against. Females can fight too. It's weird, but it seems to be two male Dobermans, not two males when one is a Doberman and one is another breed....necessarily. A couple of Dobe breeders I know house male Dobermans with males of another breed and they're fine, just like my two male dogs. But you never know how things are going to turn out. That's awful that your friend got so hurt. I think it would be a major hassle to have to worry about fighting dogs. I'd be hard pressed not to re-home a dog to a one dog only family if I had to go through that stress and worry. But it would be awful hard to re-home a dog you're already so attached too....what a dilema.

[bubbatd]

Right ... she loved her dogs and kept them all .

[buyler]

Hi all.... I have an update on this situation, my parents have decided to give Romeo another chance and try to move past this. My dad feels horrible for leaving the door open and inadvertantly causing Max's death, and can't bring himself to have Romeo pts for a reaction caused by his action. Also, Lexie, the 15 year old shephard, he feels, shouldn't lose another companion as with her rapidly deteriorating health, she won't be around much longer and shouldn't have any more trauma in her life.

So with new doors separating all rooms, the fenced in back yard, the run (which does tether him, yes, but is a long run and he's gotten used to it over the years.... plus his ability to run free when supervised), and our increased awareness of all things pit bull.... Romeo gets the benefit of the doubt.

Thanks so much to all of you for your comments, thoughts, advice and support. Its greatly appreciated!!

Tara

[RedyreRottweilers]

Just wanted to say I'm sorry for your loss and very glad to hear the situation is working out.

[AnimalLoverCatRescuer]

I just read through this, although some places I skimmed and I didn't see if you mentioned if he is neutered or not? Obviously I would hope this would have been done or at least thought of or planned to be done as a solution first. This is acommon occurrance in pits and part of the reason why if they are not part of a breeding or showing program then they should be neutered before they mature IMO. We all know that with maturity can come aggression, marking with urine and various other behaviors. So if the dog is neutered early or right on time at 6 months or so then that will greatly reduce the risk of agressions towards other dogs in most cases. ESPECIALLY in pits.

So anyways, please tell me he has been neutered? Sorry if I missed it if you said already. And in that case ignore my post :) If not, please do it ASAP.

[buyler]

yup, he was neutered at 9 months old. if only that was the solution to all our problems....

[ToscasMom]

I may be a wuss here, and it's probably a VERY good thing I don't own a pit bull, because honestly, if I came home and found one of my pets in a pool of blood with its juggler severed, I would believe the dog is more than capable of doing it again to another living thing, and I would have the dog PTS. I would honestly and truly be afraid to live with such a dog, which may or may not make me ignorant. There is a victim here and that's the other dog. I am not all that sure I could foget that and just give this dog another chance to do it again to another living thing.:yikes:

[casablanca1]

One thing missing from your post was a little more about the relationship between the two dogs in previous encounters; ie, did Max react to Romeo's aggression by lunging back at him, snarling and trying to bite him? Or did he try to run away and turn to fight only when cornered? Generally, the only time a fight between dogs will end in severe injury or death is if both dogs are dominant/aggressive - ie, neither dog tries to escape or submit. If one's trying to get away or submitting, a normal, sane dog will let it go. Even a dog-aggressive dog will let it go. If, as I suspect, Max wasn't aggressive except in self-defense, Romeo's killing of him can't be dismissed as a sad outcome of a natural power struggle.

There's dog-aggression, and then there's a dog that will kill another dog. This is not normal canine behavior. It is possible that some of the problem is his early separation from the litter, as those first weeks are supposedly the time when they learn a great deal about appropriate canine interaction and bite inhibition. Whatever the root of the problem, you now own a very strong male dog in the prime of life who has been practising attacking another dog for two years and has finally completed the exercise successfully. Romeo is extremely dangerous to other dogs.

I believe, based on your postings here, that you're unable to handle Romeo so he will not get another opportunity to attack and kill another dog. Life isn't perfect, and you just got unlucky in having a very difficult dog during a time period in your life when you need an easier dog. But based on his long-term behavior, the final lethal attack, the relative inexperience of everyone involved with dealing with a real problem dog, and the fact that your circumstances are such that he can't live with you, I would say that it's your responsibility to have him put to sleep. I would say the same if he was a Lab or a Newfoundland. There are plenty of dogs, plenty of pit bulls, who would not have done this. I think you have to love Romeo, cherish your memories, and let him go before he can cause more grief and death. It's a horrible situation and I'm very sorry for everyone involved.

[Herschel]

I may be a wuss here, and it's probably a VERY good thing I don't own a pit bull, because honestly, if I came home and found one of my pets in a pool of blood with its juggler severed, I would believe the dog is more than capable of doing it again to another living thing, and I would have the dog PTS. I would honestly and truly be afraid to live with such a dog, which may or may not make me ignorant. There is a victim here and that's the other dog. I am not all that sure I could foget that and just give this dog another chance to do it again to another living thing.:yikes:

I agree, as I did with your other post. Max is the victim here and it is incredibly tragic. My first thought was that the dog should be put to sleep, as well.

However, after thinking about it for a while I second those that said that the dog should be given to an "only dog" home, but only if the dog was never, ever allowed to be off leash or unsupervised with another dog. Unfortunately, finding a home where someone would be that responsible (that doesn't already have a dog) is pretty unlikely.

[bubbatd]

Please don't bash me .... but this is one reason I'd never own a Pitty . I know there are sweet ones , but it would be my luck of the draw to fall in love with one and then have poor genes raise it's ugly head and break my heart . This is why I decided to stick with Goldens before we had kids. And yes, there are bad Goldens being breed today , but back then they weren't that popular so no BYBs.

[Jynx]

I have to agree with those above, tosca's mom, casablanca.

And it's not the breed, if I came home to this, the dog would have been put down. To much of a liability to rehome.

Mistakes happen, and I feel terrible for the deceased dog and the father, but after the first incident, even the second, I would have made sure there wasn't a 3rd.

Just my opinion
diane

[Red_ACD_for_me]

No, unfortunately neutering isn't the answer to all our "dog" problems but it can help ;) . I have met many pitbulls who play great with other dogs and I have met ones who wanted to tear other dogs apart. Doggie socialization is a big factor in raising a pitty. But they are just one of those breeds that can have it in them to be dog aggressive unfortuantely. I hear that having two dogs of the opposite sex is best in most cases however, a friend of mine had a male and female pit who fought so bad the female is no longer around. I'm sorry for your loss also.......:(

[buyler]

its such a tough situation, and the decision came down to my parents, as romeo lives with them. the thing is that romeo has been around female dogs all his life.....was raised with one, has lived with them since day 1. and there has never been a problem, even when somebody tries to steal his food. but max was the only other male romeo had ever met, and being that i got him at 2 weeks old and hand raised him, he never was socialized with his male siblings. nor was he ever around any males. i wish i knew if this really was the basis for his problem or not, but i guess we never will. the problem with re-homing is that we'll never know whether the new owners will honestly keep him as an only dog.

my parents are very young and active... just in their early fifties. and both have had at least one dog at all times in their lives. in my life, i have had at least 2 at all times. so we've been through our fair share of breeds, problems, incidents. we had a husky years ago who killed our cat and loved to feast on squirells and whatever else she could get. and we had a shephard who would bite the ankles of any man that came into the home. also, upon getting romeo a ton of research was done. i just wish the socialization issue was thought of before this attack.

i loved max, lived with him for years, and miss him terribly. but my family are not ones to give up on our animals. when we take one in, we're committed. and with all the precautions that have been set in place plus the one temptation for agression that romeo has ever exhibited being removed from the situation, we're ready to give it a go.

[casablanca1]

I hope it works. But it's extremely hard to keep an aggresive dog from 'triggering.' With Max dead, he may very well develop a new reason for becoming aggressive, and you may not be able to predict it. Please be very, very careful with him. This is one dog who should never be in the position of even considering escape from the house or yard.

[Kayla]

Just curious if you've looked into finding a trainer for him yet? Very sorry to max but I do not agree with whats been said above and would never put my dog to sleep knowing full well that they were bred to do excactly what he did to max. Unfortunatly some pits still have very high dog aggression drive even when socalised well. My best advice is do not let him around other dogs anymore, ensure you have a secure fence and find a good trainer experinced in dealing with aggressive dogs.

Just because he's dog aggressive dosen't mean you need to worry about you or your family members as long as he has been solidly socalized and properly trained he will still view you as any dog does members of his pack in piticular the leader of his pack.

Anyone who said you would of put him to sleep if you were in her shoes are right you should not own a pit as you obviously do not understand the breeds history and what they were bred to do. If you think this dog is a danger to people soley because it has attacked and killed another dog as centurary's of instinct have told him to do you would be again very wrong.

Kayla

[sam]

I'm glad your parents are committed to keeping this dog and willing to what's necessary to keep this from happening again. Given that fact I can't frankly understand anyone suggesting you euthanise the dog. That's a very personal and difficult decision and a good trainer or behaviorist doesn't make that suggestion without exhausting all the other options :confused:

Dog-dog aggression is not related to dog-human aggression and can be managed. This is not a case of a dog who attacks dogs one minute and the next might turn on the owner. Those are two unrelated issues.

It's not THAT difficult to keep two dogs apart. I know loads of people who live with herding dogs where two dogs are crated while two others are out and then they switch. People who work in rescue or foster dogs often live like that almost continually. The only other dog in this household is an elderly female who likely won't be around much longer so in ot too long this WILL be an only dog household with what sounds like very seriously committed owners.

An aggressive dog can be walked on a GL for excellent control and a muzzle if you're really concerned about it. Signs and locks can be put on gates. The dog can be supervised when they are outside. They can be trained to have fantastic recall and wonderful obedience skills just like any other dog can. Lots of people I know with very reactive dogs walk their dogs very early in the morning and late at night to mini,ize the umber of dogs they need to worry about-- that's not typically because of THEIR dog it's because of all the morons letting their dogs run loose right up to an on leash dog and yell "it's ok he's friendly. and have no recall for when you yell back- mine's NOT!"
Pitties are wonderfully bright, trainable dogs. This dog isn't a deviant; he did what a normal pitty is capable of given the opportunity. Anyone thinking their dog isn't capable of that given the right circumstances should give their head a shake. As has been mentioned already this happens with many other breeds including perfectly normal, well bred, well socialised dobermans but they don't seem to generate the hysteria as this does with pittbulls.

Good luck Buyler. I encourage you to join the Click to Calm yahoo group and read the book by the same name by Emma Parsons. Emma Parsons dog was so screwed up that at one point he would snarl, foam and vomit at the sound of tags jingling or car keys amongst other things. He went on to become an excellent calm, demo dog for her aggressive dog classes and I believe he competed very successfully in obedience though he didn't get the OTCH that she had hoped for as he became ill with cancer. The great thing about Emma is she is wonderful but also very available to help through her yahoo group and you can also talk to other people who've been through what you're dealing with. Having a dog aggressive dog can be frustrating, confusing and lonely. "Fight" and the book on predation and predatory drift by Jean Donaldson would be good too.

There is lots that can be done to make this situation work if your parents are as interested and committed as they sound. Other people may not want to live with this issue and do the work of managing the situation (I know I don't) but that shouldn't deter your parents if they want to keep this dog. Having already lost one dog, I'm sure they are well aware of what's at stake and how carefully this needs to be managed.

[Herschel]

I'm not coming back to this thread. Sorry for being so negative, but I just can't get over this.

First, a husky was left alone with a cat and killed it.

Now, a DA dog was left with a smaller dog and killed it.



Good luck to you and your family with future training. I hope that you will follow the advice given in this thread (and especially those by Sam) so further devastation can be prevented.