How to bond with an independant puppy

[juliefurry]

Holly is a very independant puppy. She always wants to do her own thing and doesn't want attention when you want to give it to her, only when she wants it will she enjoy the attention. She is great with her obedience and she will come when called, usually. Sometimes if she is doing something that she really likes she will stop and look at you but outright refuse to come to you. I always treat her, or give her a lot of praise when she does come to me when I call her. She nows sit and will sit instantly when she sees you with a treat, or her food bowl. We are working on down and she is catching on to that great as well. I keep her leashed to me for a good portion of the day when she's inside because I have heard that makes a difference and will make her bond to me but I will do that for a few days and then let her have free roam agian and she will go back to her independant ways. Sometimes I get the feeling that she doesn't like me because when she sees Mark's friend's kids and when she sees Mark after he comes home from work she's really excited and wags her tail and everything but she never wags her tail for me:( . The only time she gets excited to see me is on the mornings I get up to take her outside. I know she probably likes seeing them because she doesn't see those kids all the time and she's excited to see Mark when he comes home from work but you would think she would show some emotion towards me.

[blue]

Make her work for it, NILIF?

[bubbatd]

Sound like a normal pup to me !! Be glad she's independent ! Yes, she loves you , no matter what . But when others enters her life .... new blood !! Don't forget ... this is Mark's dog !!! Milk it !!

[juliefurry]

Make her work for it, NILIF?

Yup, we do that. We have always done that since we had Mack so it's just common practice in this house now. She sits when she wants attention and when I feed her she has to sit and she has to sit to get a treat as well. The only problem is that for a treat she will do ANYTHING but it's when we stop giving the treats she will refuse to do stuff. Like tonight I had started doing the come command and treating her for returning to me and now she thinks she can get a treat anytime she goes away and comes back. SO now she will go to the other side of the room and come back and expect a treat but if I tell her to sit and go to pet her she will move her head and immediately starting sniffing my hand thinking I had a treat. She is extremely food motivated but not motivated through positive praising.

[juliefurry]

Sound like a normal pup to me !! Be glad she's independent ! Yes, she loves you , no matter what . But when others enters her life .... new blood !! Don't forget ... this is Mark's dog !!! Milk it !!

Yeah it is his dog but I thought that after being with me all day and going to puppy classes with me she would act differently in a positive way towards me than Mark. Oh well, She is his dog so it is better that she gets excited to see him or else he'd feel bad. I got my Hannah and she's always happy to see me and she's my BESTEST bud!

[Herschel]

Mark is like the delicacy of the day for her (and you). She's with you allllll day, so when Mark comes home its a big deal for her! Don't feel bad that she doesn't wag her tail when you greet her--it probably just means she's most comfortable with seeing you. (i.e., she expects your presence)

[killerz298]

Yup, we do that. We have always done that since we had Mack so it's just common practice in this house now. She sits when she wants attention and when I feed her she has to sit and she has to sit to get a treat as well. The only problem is that for a treat she will do ANYTHING but it's when we stop giving the treats she will refuse to do stuff. Like tonight I had started doing the come command and treating her for returning to me and now she thinks she can get a treat anytime she goes away and comes back. SO now she will go to the other side of the room and come back and expect a treat but if I tell her to sit and go to pet her she will move her head and immediately starting sniffing my hand thinking I had a treat. She is extremely food motivated but not motivated through positive praising.
Jackson is the EXACT same way. He knows we always practice DOWN a few times a day so when he wants a treat he will just slide his little butt down and stare at me for a treat. He will downand stand like 3 times in a row until I give him something lololol.

[RD]

Mark is like the delicacy of the day for her (and you). She's with you allllll day, so when Mark comes home its a big deal for her! Don't feel bad that she doesn't wag her tail when you greet her--it probably just means she's most comfortable with seeing you. (i.e., she expects your presence)
Exactly!

If she spends a day with Mark, and you're gone, you'll get the same excited greeting. The person they spend all day with is old news. It's not that she doesn't like you, she just doesn't see a need to display affection and greetings every few minutes.

Bonding takes time. Dakota and I didn't have a really close bond until he got older - when he was very young, he was too busy exploring and being a puppy to be concerned with being friends with me. Everything else was just too fascinating for him.

[Tracer Tong]

I could have sworn you were talking about my puppy. Right now my working theory is NILIF and get him good and tired out so he'll be more likely to have a down moment or two to share with me. But yeah, I'd really be interested to find out if this is a phase or if he'll always take me for granted unless I have food.

Any wisdom from the old hands?

[sam]

Curious as to why you leash her to you?- is it a potty training /to keep an eye on her so she doesn't have accidents thing?
If not I would stop doing it and try the opposite- crate her away from you for short periods. If she's being forced to be with you wether she wants to or not, why would she seek you out in times she doesn't have to be with you? she doesn't need to choose to seek you out-- she's forced to follow you around. Switch things up and set her up so she'll CHOOSE to seek you out and want to be with you. Sort of like playing hard to get.
Ruff Love by Susan Garett is a book you might want to read - lots of good stuff in there for teaching your dog to want to work with you.

[juliefurry]

Curious as to why you leash her to you?- is it a potty training /to keep an eye on her so she doesn't have accidents thing?
If not I would stop doing it and try the opposite- crate her away from you for short periods. If she's being forced to be with you wether she wants to or not, why would she seek you out in times she doesn't have to be with you? she doesn't need to choose to seek you out-- she's forced to follow you around. Switch things up and set her up so she'll CHOOSE to seek you out and want to be with you. Sort of like playing hard to get.
Ruff Love by Susan Garett is a book you might want to read - lots of good stuff in there for teaching your dog to want to work with you.

Yes, I do leash her for potty training, watching for signs. Right now we have worked her up to where she is free roaming around the place for half an hour and then crated for fifteen minutes and then let outside to go potty (then we start everything all over agian). I don't leash her to me really anymore because it's more of a pain for me to be tripping over her and her leash while I was trying to take care of the kids.

[MomOf7]

I would limit Hollys time with Hannah. Holly could easily bond to Hannah and not to either one of you. I would seperate those two nearly completely for the next 2 weeks to allow Holly time to bond with the family and not to Hannah.

[makenzie71]

I dunno about how to approach your dog, but I don't tolerate ignoring commands very well. Though Makenzie has figured out that if he shows absolutely no recognition to my voice he can get away with some things (I have to accept the possabillity that he just didn't hear me), if he messes up and lets me know he's heard me he knows to hop to. If he doesn't there's usually a shoe, pillow, rag, or something else "shocking" but otherwise harmless flying in his general direction.

Similar things work with Buddy, though I get a much more dramatic reaction. If he thinks I'm really mad at him, whether any fuzzy inanimate objects have assailed him or not he acts like I've beaten him half to death. I've only had to get after him twice though (chasing a horse, and chasing cows...neither have been repeated...amazing learner). Most of the time he's more than happy to go to anyone who calls...because he loves for everyone to pet him...

[juliefurry]

I would limit Hollys time with Hannah. Holly could easily bond to Hannah and not to either one of you. I would seperate those two nearly completely for the next 2 weeks to allow Holly time to bond with the family and not to Hannah.

I do seperate them a lot because they play and get too rough. I have two crates so Hannah is crated sometimes when Holly is out so that I can work on commands and everything with Holly without the distraction known as Hannah:lol-sign: . My trainer suggested the same thing as well and we started doing that. Holly does seem to look up to Hannah and will sometimes follow her led but as for bonding with Hannah she doesn't she would rather go off and do her own thing (chewing on a kong, or ball, or shoe, or sock, or couch or chair) without anyone. Although last night she did enjoy a good cuddle on the floor with me.

[GSDlover_4ever]

You cannot force a dog to bond with you. Eventually it will happen. Caza was/is VERY independent, didnt give a hoot about me. I just took him out fed him, excersized him and put him in his crate. He was not a lovable dog (so I did NOT hug him, and definately didnt tie him to me (unless for potty issues but he was already past that faze when I got him). He would have really hated me, and despised me if I FORCED him to love me. Over time we created a bond of respect and loyalty. Now we are inseperable. Give a dog space, let them be independent, over time a bond will emerge.

[Renee750il]

Kharma was an independent little Grrrrrl as a pup. I just respected her character and treated her like an intelligent, independent creature. Now, as Grammy, Zoom, Barb and Debi can tell you, she and I are together, heart and soul.

[showpug]

There really isn't anything wrong with tethering a dog to you while in the house for short periods of time. It's not forcing her to "love" you. It is good for a puppy to witness the different activities that take place in the home along with all the different noises that come along with those activities. Tethering is a good way to get a pup used to this stuff and believe it or not, it does help with bonding. Read the book How To Raise A Puppy You Can Live With by Rutherford and Neil.

[juliefurry]

There really isn't anything wrong with tethering a dog to you while in the house for short periods of time. It's not forcing her to "love" you. It is good for a puppy to witness the different activities that take place in the home along with all the different noises that come along with those activities. Tethering is a good way to get a pup used to this stuff and believe it or not, it does help with bonding. Read the book How To Raise A Puppy You Can Live With by Rutherford and Neil.

That book is like my puppy bible! That is why I thought up the idea of tethering but the leash got in way when I was trying to take care of the kids (she likes to be underfoot). I did it for about 45 minutes or so a day. Not anymore, she seems to like following and watching everyone but has the cat-like personality.

[GSDlover_4ever]

There really isn't anything wrong with tethering a dog to you while in the house for short periods of time. It's not forcing her to "love" you. It is good for a puppy to witness the different activities that take place in the home along with all the different noises that come along with those activities. Tethering is a good way to get a pup used to this stuff and believe it or not, it does help with bonding. Read the book How To Raise A Puppy You Can Live With by Rutherford and Neil.

Actually I do believe in tethering my pup to me, but not for bonding reasons. I do it so that I always have a connection to it, because at a young age they dont know whats off limits. I dont force myself on my dog though. I do it for behavioral problems not bonding.

[RD]

I didn't really "bond" with my dogs until they were much older, btw. I was a food dispenser, toy thrower and itch scratcher to them until they were about 1.5 years old. I'm still all those things, but our relationships have gotten a lot more loving.

[showpug]

I think with puppies, the bonding comes later in life. At this point, Holly is so interested in figuring out the world around her that she has little time for "other" things. Once she matures, the world and her surroundings will be familiar and old news. Eventually she will have the focus and attention span to be really interested in her "human" family.

[IliamnasQuest]

Puppies are so naturally curious, and I like that curiosity. I don't mind an independent puppy (that's why I have chows! *L*). It's absolutely normal for a dog to show a great deal of interest in someone they haven't seen for awhile and be kind of blasé towards those they see all the time. It doesn't really have much to do with the bond, just with the attention span and change in interest that happens so frequently in dogs.

As dogs age, they lose much of the curiousity and gain a more settled approach to life, and then the bond is more apparent.

I believe in letting a dog be a dog and not worrying too much about pushing the bond. There are those who will say to isolate your dog and not let it associate much with others - to the point of keeping it completely confined any time you can't be with it, and only taking it out to potty and work. Those people also tend to tell you that you should never let your dog play with other dogs (I'm thinking of someone with a huge website who, unfortunately, is believed by many misguided people) and that socialization is not neccessary because your dog should never pay attention to anyone but you. I find that pretty sad. I want to set my dog up to succeed in life regardless of whether I'm there or not. Maybe I'll get stomped by a moose tomorrow and my dogs will need to be with someone else .. *L*

I've raised numerous puppies who have developed into well-rounded adults. I've used crates as needed for potty training and to keep them safe until they can be trusted outside of the crate. I take my puppies to puppy kindergarten and I let them enjoy playing with other dogs. I smile as they happily run to others and get petted, because it's important to me that my dogs like people overall (which hasn't diminished their capabilities as guard dogs - it's just given them the tools to understand the difference between "bad" people and good ones). I don't worry when I can't get their focus because they see someone they want to go visit, because I know that will get better with time and I'd rather they like people overall.

And when training with treats, I've learned that the longer you lure or use visible treats, the harder it is to teach the dog to respond without the treat. Dogs that only respond when the owner has a treat in hand have learned that - it's 100% a handler error and not the dog's fault. What you can do instead is have little containers of treats that are stashed throughout the house (especially in areas like near doors, in rooms you will likely do some training in, etc.). Don't keep the treats on you, but when you have your dog do something then run to one of the stashes and pull out a treat. Have your dog run with you (additional reinforcement!) and praise happily as you go to get the treat. I say things like "WOW! What a GREAT girl you are! Let's go get the TREAT! You're such a good girl, I'm SO impressed!". The dogs just love it!

And then the next time I have them do something, we run to a different stash. The dog will never know where the treat will come from, because I vary where we go (even if we have to run out of the room to a stash somewhere else). Because the running and praising is exciting too, it can almost take the place of treats after awhile. If your dog is toy driven, you can also stash toys around and run to one of those (it's best to have special "reward only" toys that the dog doesn't get to play with except during praise/interaction times with you).

Independent smart dogs are harder to train than dogs that are bred to work with humans. Nordic/spitz breeds, terriers, hounds, etc. can be a real challenge. On the other hand, herding and sporting dogs are what I call the "easy" breeds. I don't find them to be any smarter, but they're definitely easier to train than the truly independent breeds.

They're all fun, though! And once you get one trained, you can use it to train another. My shepherd was invaluable as a training tool for my young chow. Trick helped teach Khana the off-leash recall. And all the girls together helped teach her a down and stay - we do a lot of group obedience where all the girls do a down, then a sit, maybe a spin followed by a wave good-bye .. *L* .. it's like a three-ring circus at times!

Melanie and the gang in Alaska

[Tracer Tong]

yeah, I have to work on that no apparent treat thing but its kind of difficult. We'll see how it goes.