Kuvasz vs Anatolian Shepard Dog

[Amstaffer]

My Cousin has a farm and is considering getting a new dog, He is considering three breeds Great Pyreness, Kuvasz and Anatolian Shepard Dog. He is a fairly experienced dog owner (He has had several herding breeds in his life time) and knows a fair amount about Great Pyreness (He friend has two).

He has been asking my advice on the difference between the Kuvasz and ASD. I can help him pick out a good breeder (rescue I hope) and puppy but besides the way they look I can't help him with behavior and temperment differences.

I have seen them at dog shows but they have not really interested me too much because of all that hair :p (He like fluffy dogs) I do think they are beautiful, especially the Kuvasz.

My intial thought is that both are good watch and guard dogs. They are protection shepards and not herding types. My knowledge kind of ends there on them.

Any info I can pass on would be great.

Thanks

[Gempress]

The only info I can offer is that the Great Pyr and Anatolian are the absolute most popular guardian breeds in my area. Most of the ranchers swear by them. You see the odd Kuvasz, but they don't seem to be that popular.

I have no clue why that is, though. *shrug*

[planet molosser]

Anatolian are longer ,taller and faster and tend to roam But many breeders have them working for generations . The Offical dog of Turkey however is the Kangal a bit bigger and more Mastiffy than the ASD_ long debate on those two.http://www.anatoliandog.org/
The ASD and Kangals Ive worked with are allot more in different to strangers off property- Excellent LGDS and some people are doing agility with them as well. Short coated easiest to groom.

Kuvasz are white dogs smaller in size some lines have been bred to be more human protective than most LGS.http://www.kuvasz.com/
Years ago I cam accross a bunch of them from Hungary very tough medium sized dogs. Most are still working... Medium coat requires grooming.

Great Pry white dogs has been here the longest and they many have been bred away from LGD work and some can make excellent pets. Again more grooming.

The ASD requires the least coat care but the Great Pry may be the most social of those 3 dogs...Really depends what he wants the dog for.

For me the best Guard dog would be the ASD the best watch dogs would be the Pry and Kuvasz. NOt many lgd dogs are bred for both human and flock protection.

All the flockguardians breeds can be see here on Molosser World with links to breeders with breed club affliations.

http://www.moloss.com/001/ptxt/breed.html

Best of luck with his choice just make sure the parents have health & temperament certifications..

[SummerRiot]

If he has had experience with the herding breeds.. has he considered a Belgian?

They take much more work then the other breeds regarding socializing and such.. but they make fabulous herd protectors as well as human..

they are bred to be Guardians and act acordingly.

Riot has natural protection of our Shelties, the horses (when hes on the farm), his cats(on the farm) as well as his people.

[planet molosser]

Opps forgot the Akbash is also a breed reg with the UKC like the Kangal which is a white version of the Kangal ( tan black mask)
The Akbash I had here from rescue out ran a snow mobile doing 20 miles per hour, cleared my horse stall 6ft strait up and when he protected he looks like a lion stalking his prey. The only reason why I dont have Kangal and Akbash is I dont have enough money to fenced in my property to keep them in.
They have a much better gene pool than my rare breed for breeding and better OFA and PH date base as well ..Many ethical breeders.. :)

Great choices :)

[Amstaffer]

If he has had experience with the herding breeds.. has he considered a Belgian?

They take much more work then the other breeds regarding socializing and such.. but they make fabulous herd protectors as well as human..

they are bred to be Guardians and act acordingly.

Riot has natural protection of our Shelties, the horses (when hes on the farm), his cats(on the farm) as well as his people.

Nope he never mentioned Belgians, I think he is leaning towards the bigger breeds. When he first talked to me I suggested a Rottie or GSD but is leaning towards the old school flock guardians.

[Barb04]

Here's a link for Anatolian Rescue:

http://www.petfinder.com/shelters/rmasdr.html

[Spiritus]

I have a GrPyr X rescue, and GrPyr rehome. We did, at one time, have an Akbash.

Our biggest challenge with the Pyr's on the farm - keeping them home. A LPD's (livestock protection dog) territory is everything they can see if they aren't properly contained. Even if they are contained in a way the we deem "proper", they can push through/under wire fencing, and some are agile enough to jump over. When they are young, they don't particularly care about boundaries. Heck, even when they are older, they don't particularly care - if a coyote is on the other side of the fence, they WILL go to the other side of the fence. Chain link does not stop our young neutered male. Through our research, invisible fencing will not stop a LPD - their drive to guard is too high, and their pain tolerance is incredible (no, we do not have invisible fencing, but it is one thing we considered a few years back until we did this research).

Even Pyr's, which are considered the more "domesticated" LPD, if left loose to run a farm, will run the farm, and the neighbour's farm, and THEIR neighbour's farm. If they don't have livestock to guard, they will get bored, and they will roam. They are not designed to be "yard" guardians, but livestock guardians. In our experiences, spaying/neutering does not seem to curb this propensity.

LPD's are extremely intelligent, but not in a way that makes them obedient. Their intelligence is a working-alone intelligence. They are designed to make decisions based on what is best for their flock, not what their human tells them to do. They are designed to work without human intervention, and if you tell them to "COME", and they do see a coyote over there, they will make the decision not to come, because their instinct is to first, above all else, protect.

LPD's will bark all night. Our two will sleep the day away, raising their heads if cars come into the yard, but not necessariyly "guard" against the people. Come dusk though, they are up and moving, patroling the yard, barking a warning that says "I am here, don't even think about coming into my territory". Our two will patrol opposite ends of the yard, barking and guarding, but if the normal patrol bark changes to an "I see something" bark, the other one will run to the aid of the first. A Pyr in "charge" mode is very intimidating. Their guarding works like this - bark a warning, charge, charge again, and if the dang critter coming into the yard is still stupid enough to advance, then attack mode kicks in. We've never had a dog need to pass the charge mode. We are so used to their barking that it actually lulls us to sleep now. At night, if they aren't actively guarding the yard, we worry about where they are.

The two Pyr's have been the easiest to train, if we can call it "easy". Both are more bonded to people than to our livestock, though they will guard the cattle and horses too. As I said, they don't worry about guarding from people who drive into the yard, though our young boy might get annoyed if someone chose to walk in.

We also did have an Akbash at one time. Akbash are considered a "primitive" breed, not very well domesticated. She didn't bond with us nearly as easily as the Pyr's did. She was a VERY aggressive guardian, and was downright scarey if she had to progress to the "charge" mode of guarding. I will honestly admit that she was "too much" dog for us. If we had a flock of 200 sheeps, we would again get an Akbash to stay with the sheep. I wouldn't even worry at babies at lambing time if we had an Akbash. Zoe died in her sleep at about the age of one.

[planet molosser]

Spirit US great post I agree on the akbash...

My breed bark allot at nite more so males than females.
They patrol all fenced areas and so far we have dogs that would push down a cheap field fence and open doors and go under our interior fencing to get into the house..But we are okay on not going over our 4-6 ft fence.

My breed is also a different lgd not traditional and more primitive they will leave the flock to protect the house . They are not bonded to the flock as much as what ever is in the territory.. And protect from within all they call their own...They can get serious quickly but are voice controlable.

The holes they dig to sleep can destroy a yard ..... They are easy care not grooming but when they blow coat it is a fur storm....

And if you expand your territory to the mail box accross the street by taking them there to get the mail they will change their percieved areas to include where ever they leave a scent mark.

Kinda like jurassic park 2 when they came and got the baby from the interior and brought it to the exterior _ thus changing the area they protect.

No they are not T Rexs :) but think very primitive.
Most lGD are brought up to work with sheep and one shepherd or in the uS one family. My breed was bred to work with a nomadic human tribe of thousands who often rode their flock of yaks camels etc. So they are less aloof than most lgds but not as intelligent as herding breeds in listening to the owner. They can get selective deafness syndrome when protecting

[Amstaffer]

Great post guys...Thanks.

I think the Akbash is my favorite as far as looks. These LPD are very interesting...make me wish I had a farm.... lol. All I have to guard on my property is the Grill :p