Some Pit Education

[Gamedogs]

It doesn't Jess. I went over there to look out of curiosity inspired by evasiveness, and to learn more seeing as they came to here to "educate" (How humble.). Ghost was discussing over there how people here "don't have a clue", that he likes "messin with these folks" and "ther poor chiwawa's and shitzue's don't have a chance". That's not cool. I was curious to understand him, as others here have been. I found lots of good stuff about him - more than I expected based on his behaviour here - and made a point of highlighting that; I also found some contradictions that puzzled me and said so.

They harp on about their role of "education"...but I still don't know what they're wanting to convey that most dog people don't already know. So I went to look. I had nothing - zip, nada, niet - against PBs before this thread. Nothing at all. Now I have stronger views, some very positive, but many very negative about a subsector of darker personalites who are fanatical about these animals for dubious reasons. A whole can of worms has been opened up for me on this topic.

D.Lol, no one "came here to 'educate'," everyone came here because of your, ever-so-humble thread, "Do you think this dog is skinny (http://www.chazhound.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36546)." And I choose not to get into the highly debatable "contradictions" that puzzle you, me, or anyone else on a public forum.

Again, no one is conveying anything (except for you and others with your same view, in complete 'black and white') we were asked to post here, the original thread was closed, but I don't see you complaining about or even mentioning that. And for the "dubious reasons" you mention, it is completely irrelevant for anyone to post what they do with their dogs, what they do for "work" or anything else they happen to not disclose, because this thread has nothing to do with "I do this, they to that, and other people do something different."

[Delisay]

Lol, no one "came here to 'educate'
GD, have you not read the thread over there that's all about this one - called "We tryed" (yes, with a 'y')? The first post, and many after it, plus many posts in this thread, emphasise "us 'educating' them".

That's fine ... albeit rather patronising ... but I now find myself puzzled as to what the dot points of that 'education' were ever intended to be. They seem to have been lost.

D.

[Gamedogs]

GD, have you not read the thread over there that's all about this one - called "We tryed" (yes, with a 'y')? The first post, and many after it, plus many posts in this thread, all emphasise "us 'educating' them".

That's fine ... albeit rather patronising ... but I now find myself puzzled as to what the dot points of that 'education' were ever intended to be.

D.Read into the thread "we tryed," with a y, not an i, all you want to. It doesn't bother me or anyone else that you take from it what you will. Everything that was said there was justified based on actual postings of said individuals unlike the original thread, and prior (some current) postings, here. You can defend it all you want to, but you obviously have a comprehension problem, is that our\their fault?

[LuvinBullies]

LB, I'm sorry, you are just being ridiculously emotional now. It's quite clear to all that I don't think that, have never implied it, and actually believe the opposite about these animals. Please look up the word "subsector", and note the positive comments before it.
(Do you really disagree that there are a few people out there who do unsavoury things?? I dont think so.)

You may not justify eradication of the breed, but your subsector dark personalities talk sure sounded like one of those big lies about us quoted in a sensationalized pit bull news story. As for ridiculously emotional, I am certainly not. Seething is more like it.

[Delisay]

Read into the thread "we tryed," with a y, not an i, all you want to. It doesn't bother me or anyone else that you take from it what you will. Everything that was said there was justified based on actual postings of said individuals unlike the original thread, and prior (some current) postings, here. You can defend it all you want to, but you obviously have a comprehension problem, is that our\their fault?
GD, I was merely correcting you that 'education' has been very frequently mentioned. (It is in fact also the title of this thread.)

[Gamedogs]

GD, I was merely correcting you that 'education' has been very frequently mentioned.Correcting "me?" I don't believe that the word "education" has actually been typed through my fingers much at all, especially because of this thread. You may hold grudges toward someone else who claims to know more about an APBT than you (who also has X amount of years experience with said breed), but that has nothing to do with me or game-dog.com.

[jess2416]

After this stunt right here

http://www.chazhound.com/forums/showpost.php?p=499019&postcount=1233

I'm done....

It was ridiculous and uncalled for...

[Georgygirl]

I think most people joined to respond to the first thread that was pretty much bashing someone's dog for no reason. After that thread was locked this one was started I believe in hopes that people from the other forum could address some of the concerns people had about the dog in the picture by educating people about what an APBT should look like. I think that's where the original idea to educate came from. Then it expanded later on to include info on APBT's in general. At least that's my take on it.


EDIT to add: I don't think they chose the thread title if I remember correctly

[Delisay]

GD,

1. I don't recall which individuals mentioned 'education' and have no strong feelings about it. I am genuinely curious and interested, though, to understand what those dot points were intended to be. Perhaps someone could summarise and get us all back on track. (Seriously - constructively.)

2. 5 out of every 6 posters here probably know more about PBs than I do ... which would seem (to me) like a most peculiar thing to have a 'grudge' about, so I certainly don't have one! :lol-sign:

Calm...........

[Delisay]

(Georgygirl, thanks. I posted the above before I saw yours. :) )

[Boemy]

Don't post something on a public forum and then start moaning about someone linking to it, reading it, or quoting it. It's not like someone's hacking into your e-mail; don't post something on a public forum if you want it kept private.

[Georgygirl]

No problem! :)

Boemy, I think it's mainly the idea that we should all show eachother a little respect.

[GHOST]

GD, I was merely correcting you that 'education' has been very frequently mentioned.


she thinks she nail me,,,,that was wrong,,,, now first off--- i owned apbt for many years--- 20 + years ,,, now with that said ---

1. to truely know the apbt and how it came be..

2. though you may not respect what they were used for, respect the dogs
that made them what they are,,

3.. try to keep the breed to its true to form,,

4.. learn what i can about previous apbts and help anyone i can

Game dog is the best web site i've found to learn about the true apbt,,,not petbull

i do take very good care of my dogs,,, very much so,,, but a apbt is the best dog out there,,,a simple reflection of myself,,,not an ego booster,,,a apbt may not start it but it will handle business if need be,,,

it is a public forum and u posting what i said doesn't offend me ,,, one bit,,,
THANKS YA'LL I FEEL THE LOVE,,, MAKING ME ALL WARM INSIDE,,stop it,,,:D :D :D :D
if you knew me it might be different,,,

now ladies and gents---- dogmen take care of they're animals
street punks and back yard breeders do not,,,

[GHOST]

Don't post something on a public forum and then start moaning about someone linking to it, reading it, or quoting it. It's not like someone's hacking into your e-mail; don't post something on a public forum if you want it kept private.

EDIT---- LOOK I HAVE NO ILL FEELING TO NOONE HERE

she can go back and hunt dirt on me,,,, i'd probroly investigate to,,,,
might not post it though,,it's okay delisey (mispelled),,,

[Gamedogs]

GD,

1. I don't recall which individuals mentioned 'education' and have no strong feelings about it. I am genuinely curious and interested, though, to understand what those dot points were intended to be. Perhaps someone could summarise and get us all back on track. (Seriously - constructively.)

2. 5 out of every 6 posters here probably know more about PBs than I do ... which would seem (to me) like a most peculiar thing to have a 'grudge' about, so I certainly don't have one! :lol-sign:

Calm...........I see no reason to respond directly to anything you have said in this quote, it is apparent that you are, in fact, unsure of what you have said, so I will leave it at that, for now.

[silverpawz]

but a apbt is the best dog out there

LOL, yeah, everyone thinks that about their own dogs/breed. Heck, I think my herding dogs are 'the best' out there. It's all just opinion though. Not fact.

now ladies and gents---- dogmen take care of they're animals
street punks and back yard breeders do not,,,

Sigh. Not that "dogmen" crap again. Nothing to respect there and I don't see fighting dogs as 'taking good care' of them either...They're no better than those punks and backyard breeders.

[Delisay]

I see no reason to respond directly to anything you have said in this quote, it is apparent that you are, in fact, unsure of what you have said, so I will leave it at that, for now.
Wha'?! Now you've thrown me!!! Oooh...Kaaaay! :lol-sign:

You've a bit of an ongoing issue with not seeing a reason to respond to sincere questions, haven't you?!

[GHOST]

LOL, yeah, everyone thinks that about their own dogs/breed. Heck, I think my herding dogs are 'the best' out there. It's all just opinion though. Not fact.



Sigh. Not that "dogmen" crap again. Nothing to respect there and I don't see fighting dogs as 'taking good care' of them either...They're no better than those punks and backyard breeders.





A TRUE DOGMAN CARES FOR THEY'RE ANIMALS

[stevinski]

wow this thread has gone on ay.............

[stevinski]

whats a dogman?

[GHOST]

whats a dogman?

SOMEONE HERE ANSWER HIM,,, YOU SEEM TO KNOW EVERYTHING ELSE

[silverpawz]

A TRUE DOGMAN CARES FOR THEY'RE ANIMALS

Riiiight. Fighting dogs does not equal careing for them. Exercise them? Give them the best food? Sure, but only because being healthy and in good shape is an advantage in a fight.

Hey, they might even be sad if their dog dies or gets seriously injured in a fight. But that doesn't mean they truly care for those dogs, if they did they wouldn't be fighting them in the first place and putting them in a situation where they can get killed or seriously injured.

You don't do that to a living being you claim to care about.

[Gamedogs]

You've a bit of an ongoing issue with not seeing a reason to respond to sincere questions, haven't you?!What "ongoing issue" is this that you speak of? This is not a thread of "20 questions," personal ones at that, have I asked anything of you? The only thing you asked in what I responded to is if one could summarise something you have missed in this thread. To be honest, I'm not a babysitter, and I'm not going to read over this entire thread again just to "summarise" something for you that you can read for yourself. I'm not sure as to what this "ongoing issue" you are referring to is all about, but you, and others, seem to have an "ongoing issue" in the department of reading, comprehending, and asking others to do your own "interesting" works for you.

[Delisay]

Originally Posted by stevinski: whats a dogman?

SOMEONE HERE ANSWER HIM,,, YOU SEEM TO KNOW EVERYTHING ELSE
:lol-sign: :lol-sign:

I think it's a dog handler who fights their dogs ... or at least it used to be. These days (maybe?) it's also used just to refer to someone who cares for their game-breed dogs in a traditional (passionate) way.

(Yay?? Nay?? How'd I do???)

Del.

[Gamedogs]

Riiiight. Fighting dogs does not equal careing for them. Exercise them? Give them the best food? Sure, but only because being healthy and in good shape is an advantage in a fight.

Hey, they might even be sad if their dog dies or gets seriously injured in a fight. But that doesn't mean they truly care for those dogs, if they did they wouldn't be fighting them in the first place and putting them in a situation where they can get killed or seriously injured.

You don't do that to a living being you claim to care about.Moderator? People such as this person should not be allowed, period, to reply to a thread in which they must assume such extremist attitudes and rationale. And, until this is rectified, I shall not make a single post more.

[GHOST]

:lol-sign: :lol-sign:

I think it's a dog handler who fights their dogs ... or at least it used to be. These days (maybe?) it's also used just to refer to someone who cares for their game-breed dogs in a traditional (passionate) way.

(Yay?? Nay?? How'd I do???)

Del.

BOY do you have ur drawers in a wad or what?:D

i do like the yah hay how do i,,,:D

[GHOST]

now i'm truely joshin delisay,,, please don't answer

[silverpawz]

Moderator? People such as this person should not be allowed, period, to reply to a thread in which they must assume such extremist attitudes and rationale.

Since when is saying something negative about people that FIGHT their dogs...on a dog forum full of people who I think are against it no less, something that requires moderator attention? If someone doesn't fight their dogs then I'm obviously not reffering to them.

[Brothermarree]

Hope thios helps This is a picture of my dog he is on the bigger side. The first dogs posted were conditioned and or worked very well this is an example of a dog not being worked but stilll fit called chain weight.
Most bulldogs are kept at this state when not in conditioning- although most are smaller.

http://www.game-dog.com/gallery/files/2/9/5/5/100_2460.jpg

[doberkim]

Ridiculous huh? Well I hope you and your dog rest easy tonight, knowing people in uniforms who refuse to listen to reason will not come into your home and take him away from you- largely because no one cares to spread the truth, not lies, about you and your dog. Enjoy knowing at least you have an ally in the APBT owner if your dog becomes so persecuted. We will at least understand your heartache, and mourn the loss of your breed with you.

Oh please spare me your own little tantrum there, where you get all emotional and misty eyed and toss your red herrings out left and right... what on EARTH does that have to do with attacking us and calling us "pet owners" and using culling as a method to control your populations, since you own WORKING dogs, and then the truth comes out that so far, exactly TWO of you have admitted to being involved in ANY sort of organized dog "sport" at ALL! I *own* a banned breed and do my best to fight BSL every single day - but let me tell you, the "mystery" you guys insist on surrounding yourself with here doesn't do crap for it. Specific posters here have done their best to state directly as well as imply, that WORKING DOGS are somehow deserving of different treatment - they can be kept outside, they can not be health tested, they can be culled.

SO HOW ARE THEY WORKING DOGS. It is not a hard question. And THEN it comes out that the "working nature" some of you use is apparently that the dog goes for WALKS!

Yes, that my friends is both ridiculous and hypocritical.

Although many "pet owners" and "breeders" do not care about the working abilities of their animals, those who let the dogs prove their own health-state and do not believe in (artificial) "health testing" should not be shunned because of their lack of need.

You guys must be lucky you don't need to use the general public to place your dogs, because if anyone ever came to me and told me that line, I'd tell them flat out, yes, it too is bullshit. Don't shun because the testing isn't NEEDED???? do I even need to go there?

and HOW ARE THEY WORKING?
and this is a falsity, by the way - working dogs every single day can have health problems, and a drivey dog will continue to compete and work DESPITE them. I've seen dogs with HD still go out there and do agility and schutzhund, i've seen dogs with structural deformities go out there just fine, i've seen animals going blind never skip a beat. PROVING your dog is healthy involves TESTING, otherwise you're just paying lip service. Drive can push a dog a very far distance - my dog once ran his carpal pads off in the dark playing fetch and never stopped for one instant .

Hell, I competed with a dog with a herniated disk, cancer, and heart disease, and put a title on him. Working doesn't mean you are healthy. You prove that by testing and telling.

I think sometimes people don't realize that health defects can also remain hidden. Low-grade heart murmurs. Hip sockets that aren't necessarily dysplastic but aren't really good either. In an individual dog, not a real problem. But breed that dog to another with an incognito issue and it becomes a real problem. Inadvertently setting the faults into the bloodline.

Another thing is that some health problems are degenerative. The hot working dog you breed at 2 or 3 may not have problems that you can discern at that age. And when he gets older, stiffness or other minor issues may be dismissed as just a sign of age.

Health-testing is a tool. Its not the top decider in a breeding program, and its not the devil either. :) Health-testing a dog doesn't make them worthless by any means, and I don't believe it shows mistrust in the dog's breeder either. Its just something that can help you breed stronger dogs. Not everybody's going to use it, but I wish more would.

thank you for a reasonable post! and yes, i saw where you said that some people wanted some secrecy . You don't have to tell me you have a treadmill, say the dogs run for 40 minutes. I don't care - but my point is, having a treadmill STILL doesn't mean you have a working dog. I use a springer and bike my dog - that doesn't make him a working dog. It's a personal distinction, but its a hypocritical one for some others to make, since many dogs on this forum (who are NOT working dogs IMO) do get similar amounts of exercise.

[GHOST]

and then the truth comes out that so far, exactly TWO of you have admitted to being involved in ANY sort of organized dog "sport" at ALL!


which 2 have admitted anything?

[Bahamutt99]

I don't think anyone has said that a dogman is a dog fighter. I know folks who do other, legal things with their dogs and still consider themselves dogmen/women. I don't know if its because they're serious about the breed and scrupulous in the care of their animals, or what. Maybe someone more comfortable with the term could explain better.

[mydawgs]

whats a dogman?




Also, in the interest
of keeping information within this document as accurate as possible,
reputable dogmen was contacted for feedback regarding this FAQ.
These people have a national reputation for having bred and campaigned
some famous dogs in the past and we could not have presented 'inside'
information without his/her help. Furthermore, the authors wish to
acknowledge and thank both Carl Semencic and Richard Stratton whose
books were drawn on heavily in the formation of this document.


Here is one mans concept of a dogman....they are like horsemen....they are the experts when it comes to the APBT. All emotionalism aside, any modern APBT fancier would be privledged to be mentored by a dogman or a dogwoman...hope this helps

[mydawgs]

Well this thread has been very educational to read...it is nice to know so may folks are passionate about dogs in general..hats off to all. Here is one of my favorite sources I found when starting to research the APBT...wanted to share.

http://www.nyx.net/~mbur/apbtfaqfaq.html#q1

[silverpawz]

Here is one mans concept of a dogman....they are like horsemen....they are the experts when it comes to the APBT. All emotionalism aside, any modern APBT fancier would be privledged to be mentored by a dogman or a dogwoman...hope this helps

In this thread the term "dogmen "has been used in the context of someone who fights their dogs. That's what I was reffering too. Again, if you don't fight your dogs, you shouldn't be offended by what I typed. I'm not referring to you.

(I'm using the word "you" in a general sense)

[SisMorphine]

I'm trying to keep this post humble here, as I am friends with people on both sides of this topic (in person and on other forums), I've been trying to keep quiet because of that but I just can't seem to do that anymore.

I just keep reading this thread and my mind continues to spin. Both sides seem to be taking things too far and that just keeps getting us nowhere with the topic. I have been involved in pit bull rescue, am a member over at game-dog (though I don't post there often because I have nothing to say regarding bloodlines or anything, I'm just there for the nutrition), and am a member in many other pit bull related boards.

Some of the stuff, like culling, chaining, and the definition of a working dog, gets brought up on those boards as well. Not everyone agrees with culling. Not everyone agrees with chaining. Not everyone has a working dog, nor can they decide on a black and white definition of one.

Personally I think that if you have a dog from working lines that does not automatically make it a working dog unless you actually use it. My Greyhound USED to be a working dog, back when he raced. He's now retired and sleeps on the couch. Just because I walk him and play tug that doesn't mean he's still an active working dog. He's a retired working dog. My pit/Akita mix IS a working dog. He is currently training in competative obedience, weight pull, agility, and personal protection. He is treated very differently from my retired hound, but I do not have him out on a chain because I do not agree with chaining (behavioral reasons) as a permanent way of keeping a dog. But I will not flame anyone for chaining their dog provided that it gets plenty of off chain time for training or playing or whatever.

I do think that some people are sidestepping some questions, perhaps simply to be cute and stir things up, or perhaps because they really have something to hide. Or maybe they just don't realize they're doing it. But it's definitely not helping the thread to continue to do that. Please if you're asked a straight question give a straight answer, even if you've given it earlier in this looooooooong thread. (And a big THANK YOU to those of you who have been doing that, it's very helpful.)

I'm here for the dogs. I'm a pit bull fan, pit bull mix owner, and I fight BSL. I usually have a pit bull foster and almost every single member of my club has an APBT for their working dog, so I'm exposed to them on a daily basis. I know the fighting history of the breed, but not to the points of being able to name any big fighters, because I don't feel it's necessary to celebrate the history, simply to know it so you can better know your dog and be prepared for any DA in the future.

Oh yeah, and to get back to the original purpose of this thread, I think that Lil' Bit is beautiful and I wish that my Mike had just a quarter of that muscle on him. My Wally, the retired racing Greyhound, as I said is a couch potato, but he's still managed to keep on most of his muscle. Genetics. Purely genetics. You can see some of his muscle in this pic, unfortunately he was also pretty overweight in this one. He's back down to normal weight. Normal weight for a Greyhound means that you can see at least 4 ribs and you can see 4+ vertebrae. Someone WAY earlier said something about how you should not see any of the dog's backbone. Well many APBTs have a roached back, like a Greyhound, so even if you have them super fat you will still be able to see it. The difference is wether the body is sunken in around the vertebrae (ie: no muscle) or if it is well toned.
And a sidenote: it's easier to see muscle on a solid colored dog, which is why Lil Bit's muscles show so greatly. If she was brindle it would be slightly more difficult to see the muscle definition, though it still would be there.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/sismorphine/brosout.jpg

[mydawgs]

In this thread the term "dogmen "has been used in the context of someone who fights their dogs. That's what I was reffering too. Again, if you don't fight your dogs, you shouldn't be offended by what I typed. I'm not referring to you.

(I'm using the word "you" in a general sense)

No offense taken, in this thread you have referred to dogmen in the context of someone who fights their dogs...I have not, I also have offered you what I believe the definition is....thats all.

[Kurby]

I'm trying to keep this post humble here, as I am friends with people on both sides of this topic (in person and on other forums), I've been trying to keep quiet because of that but I just can't seem to do that anymore.

I just keep reading this thread and my mind continues to spin. Both sides seem to be taking things too far and that just keeps getting us nowhere with the topic. I have been involved in pit bull rescue, am a member over at game-dog (though I don't post there often because I have nothing to say regarding bloodlines or anything, I'm just there for the nutrition), and am a member in many other pit bull related boards.

Some of the stuff, like culling, chaining, and the definition of a working dog, gets brought up on those boards as well. Not everyone agrees with culling. Not everyone agrees with chaining. Not everyone has a working dog, nor can they decide on a black and white definition of one.

Personally I think that if you have a dog from working lines that does not automatically make it a working dog unless you actually use it. My Greyhound USED to be a working dog, back when he raced. He's now retired and sleeps on the couch. Just because I walk him and play tug that doesn't mean he's still an active working dog. He's a retired working dog. My pit/Akita mix IS a working dog. He is currently training in competative obedience, weight pull, agility, and personal protection. He is treated very differently from my retired hound, but I do not have him out on a chain because I do not agree with chaining (behavioral reasons) as a permanent way of keeping a dog. But I will not flame anyone for chaining their dog provided that it gets plenty of off chain time for training or playing or whatever.

I do think that some people are sidestepping some questions, perhaps simply to be cute and stir things up, or perhaps because they really have something to hide. Or maybe they just don't realize they're doing it. But it's definitely not helping the thread to continue to do that. Please if you're asked a straight question give a straight answer, even if you've given it earlier in this looooooooong thread. (And a big THANK YOU to those of you who have been doing that, it's very helpful.)

I'm here for the dogs. I'm a pit bull fan, pit bull mix owner, and I fight BSL. I usually have a pit bull foster and almost every single member of my club has an APBT for their working dog, so I'm exposed to them on a daily basis. I know the fighting history of the breed, but not to the points of being able to name any big fighters, because I don't feel it's necessary to celebrate the history, simply to know it so you can better know your dog and be prepared for any DA in the future.

Oh yeah, and to get back to the original purpose of this thread, I think that Lil' Bit is beautiful and I wish that my Mike had just a quarter of that muscle on him. My Wally, the retired racing Greyhound, as I said is a couch potato, but he's still managed to keep on most of his muscle. Genetics. Purely genetics. You can see some of his muscle in this pic, unfortunately he was also pretty overweight in this one. He's back down to normal weight. Normal weight for a Greyhound means that you can see at least 4 ribs and you can see 4+ vertebrae. Someone WAY earlier said something about how you should not see any of the dog's backbone. Well many APBTs have a roached back, like a Greyhound, so even if you have them super fat you will still be able to see it. The difference is wether the body is sunken in around the vertebrae (ie: no muscle) or if it is well toned.
And a sidenote: it's easier to see muscle on a solid colored dog, which is why Lil Bit's muscles show so greatly. If she was brindle it would be slightly more difficult to see the muscle definition, though it still would be there.


I agree.(lovely dogs btw)

I cant believe some of you sunk to a new low... i think one of my neighborhood kids talk smack like that. You dont need to personally attack somebody to make a point. We are suppose to learn about the breed. If what they do doesnt agree with you what made you think you will change their mind by trying to argue? You can give your POV but that cant change their mind. This men and women has been around the breed for yearsss and they have their own way of doing things. I dont agree 100% to what they are doing but that doesnt mean Im going to argue with them, I might say my POV but thats about it.

Why cant we agree to disagree? why cant we just take it in what is being said? share your POV but keep it civil.

:spam:

[tommyt]

Wow. So much bickering over nothing.

We, as an APBT community have not used the term "dogmen" in reference to dogfighters. The members of this board has. You have made incorrect assumptions.

Also, there are some people that believe their dogs are working dogs simply because they are from working lines or because they are exercised. I am not one of them. Some people just use the term "working dogs" as a generic term for dogs that are from working lines. I am sure that I have been guilty of this also. I don't see why it is such a big deal.

You can own a greyhound and tell someone that it is a racing dog as a general statement concerning the breed when it has never seen a track. I doubt that it will cause as much of a stir as this whole "working dog" topic.

I do not see why something as silly as this has caused 15-20 posts of bickering.

[LuvinBullies]

I agree.(lovely dogs btw)

I cant believe some of you sunk to a new low... i think one of my neighborhood kids talk smack like that. You dont need to personally attack somebody to make a point. We are suppose to learn about the breed. If what they do doesnt agree with you what made you think you will change their mind by trying to argue? You can give your POV but that cant change their mind. This men and women has been around the breed for yearsss and they have their own way of doing things. I dont agree 100% to what they are doing but that doesnt mean Im going to argue with them, I might say my POV but thats about it.

Why cant we agree to disagree? why cant we just take it in what is being said? share your POV but keep it civil.

:spam:

Good post! Some have wondered why some of us are so passionate about our breed. Even with insinuations that this passion may suggest a deeper darker side which we are trying to hide and protect. This is exactly why the breed is in danger: we are not believed or deemed credible. In any other hot topic where two sides disagree you will find just about 50/50 tie on public viewpoint. Unfortunately for the APBT, an overwhelming majority of the general public and politicians still believe the breed is better off dead, or they simply just don't care. Other dog enthusiasts discredit us, and even make mockeries of our love for these dogs. All I ask is for you who question our shock and dismay and even boiling irritation at times to read this
http://dogpolitics.typepad.com/my_weblog/2006/07/denver_38_dead_.html

and try to understand where we are coming from. This is no isolated incident, and yes, family APBT pets are dying because we are dehumanized as dogfighters and abusers by so many. It's easier for AC to take a dog from a child's crying arms when all you know about "pit bulls" is they are a demon breed created by demon people. It's even easier to go in and seize 8 working dogs from a yard when you have been conditioned to "know for a fact" that "pit bulls on chains" = "fighting dogs".

Sorry for losing my cool last night, as I understand it does reflect upon my credibility somewhat. As you all have passions you protect and get emotional over, so do we. Thanks in advance for reading the article.

[bubbatd]

After 1290 posts , I feel it's now going no where . If you want to start up again ....go ahead . But I feel all has been covered and it's getting too personal .

[bubbatd]

This is now closed . Have a nice day !

[Renee750il]

No problem! :)

Boemy, I think it's mainly the idea that we should all show eachother a little respect.

PRECISELY.

Thank you, those of you Chazhound members who called Delisay's post #1233 to me and the rest of you who have remarked upon the complete rudeness of it.

Delisay, stop being so damned condescending. That is NOT a request.