Where'd her shiny coat go??

[Tami'n'Charly]

I have a 10 month old Springer who is absolutely gorgeous!! The problem is, her coat seems to have become dull. She had the shiniest coat up until we got her groomed for the first time a few months ago. Her head, neck and legs are fine- but it's the top of her (her back) that just seems dull now. Could it have to do with getting her groomed?? :confused:

I brush her about 3 to 4 times a week and give her a bath about every two weeks (with a very gentle/mild shampoo). She's super healthy and has a great diet. For the past few weeks I've even taken to putting fish oil on her food in hopes her coat would regain it's original luster. Nope.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!! :hail:

[Brattina88]

what are you feeding her? ;)

Was her back shaved, and the legs left with feathering? Is the weather changing? (ex. is it getting colder, and is she sitting by a heater? lol)
j/w

[DanL]

It will take more than a couple weeks for supplements like fish oil to work. I'd also ask what you are feeding as that is the main culprit for dull coats. Also, you may be bathing her too much. Dogs have oils in their coats that give the hair it's sheen.

[Tami'n'Charly]

I'm feeding her Science Diet Puppy Formula. And yes, I live in North Carolina (unfortunately :( ) and the weather is changing- but not drastically.

I do believe her back was shaved when we had her groomed. And yes, also her legs were left with feathering, etc. She had the classic "springer cut".

As far as bathing her too much- I don't have any other option. She's a 10 month old pup and gets VERY dirty on our walks (due to the rain, mud, etc) and especially at the dog park. But like I said, I use an extreamly mild oatmeal shampoo when I do wash her. So... I don't know.

Could it be the food? And if it is the food- why did she go from shiny (on the same food) for the first 7 months of her life to dull during the last two? I really feel like it's was the grooming. Have you ever heard of this? Is it possible to damage the hair with a shaver?

Thanks in advance!!!

[DanL]

It could very well be the food. Changes to a dog's coat don't take place instantly. We changed our dogs from dry food to a raw meat diet and it took over 3 months to see the difference in our old dog. She looked horrible before and was a completely changed dog afterward.

[Herschel]

As Dan has suggested, have you considered switching to a different food? Grain heavy foods (like Science Diet) are notorious for causing dull coats.

[Tami'n'Charly]

You know, the vet just called to check-up on Charly from another issue from a few weeks ago (man, I love my vet). I figured that since I had her on the phone, I'd ask her about Charly's dull coat. The vet said that Science Diet is a great dog food and is probably not causing the issue. She feeds it to her dogs as well.

She then asked what kind of shampoo I used when I bath her. Since Charly had dandruff when she was a pup- I still use that (it was really expesive stuff and says it's "gental"). She said, "ahh... that's your culprit". She explained how oatmeal based shampoos will immediately dull a coat because of it's "sticky" nature. She used the example of how hard it is to clean a pot you cooked (old fashioned) oatmeal in. It seems to make sense so I'm going to try a shampoo she suggested called "Hylite". It's got some great essential fatty acids in it (and smells like coconuts to boot). :)

So, hopefully, this'll help. I believe this shampoo is only available in certain vet clinics. I'll post again as soon as I get down to the vet hospital to pick some up and let you guys know if there is any change.

[Brattina88]

I have to disagree...

Science Diet is not really a good food. Vets often recomend it because they are not well versed in dog nutrition, or they are getting a small profit from you buying the food (if you buy it from them).

Check out
http://www.dogfoodproject.com
http://www.betterdogcare.com
There are plenty of ingrediants to avoid in commercial dog foods, and this is a good site to learn about it.
Oatmeal shampoos are supposed to be good for the skin and coat, but a healthy skin & coat comes from a healthy diet ;) Buying new shampoos and bathing often probably won't help if the problem is comming from 'within'

[princess_poppy]

English or welsh, the clips for each are totaly different, an english cut on a welshie can damage there fur and make it rough. It probaly is the shampoo, hope his coat returns :D

[Tami'n'Charly]

At lunch time I went out and purchased the Hylite shampoo- however I'm going to have to wait a few days to give her a bath because today was her Frontline day.

However, after reading what you all had to say, looking at "The Dog Food Project" website and reading in the Food forum here on Chaz, I have decided to change Charly's food. You all are probably correct in advising that her dull coat is most likely due to her food.

So, with a change of food, a new shampoo and continuing with the fish oil... I bet her coat is going to become blindingly shiny. Better get out the shades....

I'll be sure to let you all know how things look in a month or two (I understand this'll take a while). Thanks again for all the help! :)

[Brattina88]

:cool: I'll have to buy some new shades... Glad to hear you did some research, and I truly think your pup will benefit from it :D lol

[Spirit2010]

It could be because it is less sunny, because my dog's coat gets shiny when he has a shorter coat. :)

[DanL]

Just for reference, here are before and after pics of our 12 year old mix Midnite. Before a raw diet, and 3 months after she started. I've posted these many times so anyone who is tired of seeing them can ignore me! :)

Before: dull coat, tufts of hair always falling out, dandruff, stinky even after baths.
http://home.comcast.net/~danl/prerawmidnite.jpg

After: look at that shine. That is not silver/gray hair, that is the sun shining off of her.
http://home.comcast.net/~danl/midnite.jpg

[showpug]

Just for reference, here are before and after pics of our 12 year old mix Midnite. Before a raw diet, and 3 months after she started. I've posted these many times so anyone who is tired of seeing them can ignore me! :)

Before: dull coat, tufts of hair always falling out, dandruff, stinky even after baths.
http://home.comcast.net/~danl/prerawmidnite.jpg

After: look at that shine. That is not silver/gray hair, that is the sun shining off of her.
http://home.comcast.net/~danl/midnite.jpg

Wow, that is truly amazing! I was in the pet supply the other day when I noticed a lab with a wonderful coat. Better than the average great coat. I listened while she told the staff what she wanted and she was buying raw. I think it really can do wonders.

[otch1]

I agree with DanL, I feed a partial dry and raw diet and am going to raw once puppy is a little older. Did you also find it improved mobility in your 12 yr old. (Or does she have any joint stiffness at this age yet?) I also use a very mild shampoo and add several tbl. cider vinegar for dogs w/skin and coat problems.

[DanL]

otch1, she definitely improved in all areas regarding her health. She was more active, had no more hot spots or lick sores, and would actually get out and run around with the other guys. She's slowing up again though, the last couple months you can see she's getting more arthritic, but she can still do stairs ok. It takes her longer to get up and lay down now, she takes those little steps to let herself down slowly. Her appetite is good, she's got good bladder and bowel function, and she's happy, so all is well. I don't expect a near 13 year old dog to play frisbee or anything like that anyway. If her favorite thing is to lay on the deck and catch some rays, that works for me. I think now that Gunnar has gotten so big and is so fast and strong, she doesn't like to play with him much. All it takes is for him to bang into her hard one time and she'll yelp and whine, so we try to keep him from getting too rowdy around her. He and Bruzer go at it pretty good so they generally don't involve her unless she gets in there herself. I firmly believe that the last 18 months that we've been feeding raw have improved her life.

[showpug]

otch1, she definitely improved in all areas regarding her health. She was more active, had no more hot spots or lick sores, and would actually get out and run around with the other guys. She's slowing up again though, the last couple months you can see she's getting more arthritic, but she can still do stairs ok. It takes her longer to get up and lay down now, she takes those little steps to let herself down slowly. Her appetite is good, she's got good bladder and bowel function, and she's happy, so all is well. I don't expect a near 13 year old dog to play frisbee or anything like that anyway. If her favorite thing is to lay on the deck and catch some rays, that works for me. I think now that Gunnar has gotten so big and is so fast and strong, she doesn't like to play with him much. All it takes is for him to bang into her hard one time and she'll yelp and whine, so we try to keep him from getting too rowdy around her. He and Bruzer go at it pretty good so they generally don't involve her unless she gets in there herself. I firmly believe that the last 18 months that we've been feeding raw have improved her life.

So are you saying the black dog in the picture is an older dog? You could never tell by looking.:)

[princess_poppy]

wow, that is one beautiful coat!

[Tami'n'Charly]

Hey guys. I told you all that I'd repost after her bath with the Hylite shampoo. I didn't figure she'd get a bath so soon- but she found the one mud puddle at the dog park today and started jumping up and down in it. When we left- I had a all brown dog instead of a black and white one. :yikes: Grrr...

ANYWAY- I bathed her and used the shampoo as directed. She's all dried off now and looks.. well, okay. Probably a bit better than before the mud puddle but not even close to when she was a pup (before grooming). So... there you have it. It's not the shampoo. I really do think it's her food. I'm going to the pet store this weekend to get some of da' good stuff :D .

I'll check in again when I see some changes-- or not.

[Saje]

Or you could stop by and play with us whenever you want because we are super cool and love spreading the chaz addiction :D

[Zoom]

Or you could stop by and play with us whenever you want because we are super cool and love spreading the chaz addiction :D

It's like herpes, but more fun and with less itching. Except for maybe an itchy clicker finger from wanting to obessivly check new posts. :D :D

[DanL]

So are you saying the black dog in the picture is an older dog? You could never tell by looking.:)

Yes, she'll be 13 in December.

[FoxyWench]

midnight is gorgeous...i wis my chis would eat raw...*grr to them for being picky* lol!

When i get my dane hell be on stricktly raw and mabe once the chis see the new guy getting all the good stuff theyll change their mind.

as for the op. def change the diet (as you are doing) and i know its difficult but try cutting back the shampooing to once a month.
a good water only bath might be enough if its just mudd...the shampoo strips out the essential oils from the coat, it can not only dull the coat but also dry out the skin.
its also that time of year when they start to look a little more shabby than usual as the winter coat comes in...
charlie (the cocker) looks all dull and fluffy right now due to the weather changes!
Hope that helps!
and itll take aproximatly 3 months to start seeing a real difference with the fish oil.

[ejabarnes]

clipping can cause the fur to go dull and rough on some dogs i had that problem with my spaniel so now i strip him and his fur has been fine and shiny again

[Herschel]

It's the food!

[Love That Collie]

It's the food!

I agree after reading through this thread.
And I don't know what that vet was thinking about when she
when she compared Oatmeal Shampoo with how difficult it is to get cooked
oats out of a pot! I've used Oatmeal Shampoo for years and I have Collies, long hair and lots of it! Oatmeal is very gentle for those that might have skin problems. My two have coats that actually reflect the light and bounce like the girls hair on those shampoo commercials. :D But this has more to do with the food they eat.

[ToscasMom]

Ditto on what Herschel and Love That Collie says! As for Science Diet. I could do an hour on it and often have! No way I would feed it to my dog or cats.

[Tami'n'Charly]

UPDATE: It's been about 2 months since I switched Charly over from Science Diet to Natural Balance. I was hoping her coat would return to it's original shiny self. No such luck. The strip along the top of her back (though amazingly soft) is still very dull. I've tried just about everything... maybe that's just how it is. Or maybe it'll take longer? Either way, I'm sticking with NB... it's clearly a superior food.

It's ok, I still think she's the cutest pup of all time! :)

[showpug]

UPDATE: It's been about 2 months since I switched Charly over from Science Diet to Natural Balance. I was hoping her coat would return to it's original shiny self. No such luck. The strip along the top of her back (though amazingly soft) is still very dull. I've tried just about everything... maybe that's just how it is. Or maybe it'll take longer? Either way, I'm sticking with NB... it's clearly a superior food.

It's ok, I still think she's the cutest pup of all time! :)

I posted this on your other thread as well, but I thought I would mention that Natural Balance is a little lower in fat and protein which can affect skin and coat quality in SOME dogs. Your dog may need a higher fat/protein food in order to restore the shine that was there before. I take it you switched from Science Diet puppy to NB? The most protein NB contails is 23% and fat is 13% the Hills puppy formula was 25.5% protein and 16.5% fat. NB is for sure a better food with more quality protein, but your pup may still need a diet that contains more fat and/or protein.

[SizzleDog]

I'd also like t add that when the coat is shaved, it does dull the coat - really the only way to keep a shiny, lustrous back on a springer is if you strip... and that's a long, arduous process.

If you're willing to learn, great! I always prefer a stripped dog to a shaved one. They look sooo much better. However... it's a lot of work, and your grooming time could easily double or triple.

[Tami'n'Charly]

LOL! I can't believe you found this post-- it sure was from a loooong time ago!

Charly has been on Natural Balance for a long time now-- and her coat is just stunning. Shiny. Thick. Everywhere she goes she gets compliments! Does one relate to the other or is it just because her hair has grown out now?? Hmmm... don't know. But I'll tell ya, I'm not about to change her food! :)

Now, I am totally motivated and tend to be-- well anal-- so taking more time with grooming (stripping vs. clipping) is not a problem. I'll probably even like it better. Although- what is stripping? How do you do it? What tools are needed and how might I learn?

I'm a very eager student! :D

[SizzleDog]

Really, the only supplies you'll need is a comfy stool to sit on as you spend hours stripping, a set of good stripping knives (check out the Mars strippers on PetEdge) and a good teacher and/or a good eye for grooming!

Basically, hand stripping involves stripping out the dead hairs using a little knife with a ling handle, with tiny little teeth on it. That's putting it simply, of course! Here's a nice website that explains how to strip a Springer:

http://www.springershowcase.com/art2no4.htm